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problematic escape tools

Noctus
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there are two absolute skilless escape tools which need 0 effort to disengage and survive a situation.

1. shadow image (teleportation through walls even out of LOS is kinda screwed)

2. ball of lightning (not so much problematic for stam but definately cheesy against magicka characters)

i dont have much against streak but that morph is OP against any other magicka user and as for shadow image there should be LOS limitation.

the effort for the attacker is way higher than the effort for the guy who escapes. this aint balanced.

again nothing against streak only this morph.

Edit: to many ppl complain so lets just focus on ball of lightning. it should only absorb true projectiles like snipe, chrystal frag etc. and not forcepulse, vampiric drain....
Edited by Noctus on April 13, 2021 6:37PM
  • Gilvoth
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    i hope what your suggesting will never happen.
    the whole point of shadow image is to escape and stealth out of line of sight and survive.


    Edited by Gilvoth on April 8, 2021 11:01PM
  • Noctus
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    Gilvoth wrote: »
    i hope what your suggesting will never happen.
    the whole point of shadow image is to escape and stealth out of line of sight.

    the problematic of those skills i listed are that even the worst players can survive against any opponent that way no matter how big the skillgap is.

    there allways should be a chance to catch the person with enough skill... an opportunity a timewindow anything.

    it shouldnt be like "oh u used shadowimage ... have a nice day then"

    or "oh ball of lightning.... understandable ill just walk the other way"
    Edited by Noctus on April 8, 2021 11:04PM
  • Blackcosmic
    Blackcosmic
    Soul Shriven
    Noctus wrote: »
    Gilvoth wrote: »
    i hope what your suggesting will never happen.
    the whole point of shadow image is to escape and stealth out of line of sight.

    the problematic of those skills i listed are that even the worst players can survive against any opponent that way no matter how big the skillgap is.

    there allways should be a chance to catch the person with enough skill... an opportunity a timewindow anything.

    it shouldnt be like "oh u used shadowimage ... have a nice day then"

    or "oh ball of lightning.... understandable ill just walk the other way"

    Okay give me a Magnb build I can survive and kill on and I won’t need shade to run away from anyone not in a pve set up... until then merciless *Dodged* Incap *Dodge* shade *Walk away and turn off ps4*..... literally the only Magnb skill that lets me feel like I accomplished something.....by running away successfully lol

  • Noctus
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    Noctus wrote: »
    Gilvoth wrote: »
    i hope what your suggesting will never happen.
    the whole point of shadow image is to escape and stealth out of line of sight.

    the problematic of those skills i listed are that even the worst players can survive against any opponent that way no matter how big the skillgap is.

    there allways should be a chance to catch the person with enough skill... an opportunity a timewindow anything.

    it shouldnt be like "oh u used shadowimage ... have a nice day then"

    or "oh ball of lightning.... understandable ill just walk the other way"

    Okay give me a Magnb build I can survive and kill on and I won’t need shade to run away from anyone not in a pve set up... until then merciless *Dodged* Incap *Dodge* shade *Walk away and turn off ps4*..... literally the only Magnb skill that lets me feel like I accomplished something.....by running away successfully lol

    look in my other forum post i complained about the weakness of magnb. im a magblade main. but there are things that needs buff and things that needs fixing.
    im not saying that either class needs nerf in fact im all in for magblade buffs but this doesnt change the nature of the skill.

    if u look at decimushd stream for example u can see even on high mmr i do fine with magblade without shadow image this doesnt mean the class dont need a buff but magblade should also not depend on it and its rly just a cowards skill, its way to easy and way to effective.

    the class should be buffed but this skill is a problem
    Edited by Noctus on April 8, 2021 11:22PM
  • baselesschart
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    Shade is completely balanced xD. It should remain unchanged because it gives a ton of class identity and synergizes really well with nightblade playstyle.

    In case you haven't noticed, nightblade passives offer close to no damage mitigation whatsoever, so having an instant teleport back to somewhere where we can LoS is something we kind of need when we are outnumbered. If you're concerned about 1v1s, very rarely will a good player ever teleport back to shade in 1v1, most of us throw it down for the minor maim.

    Believe it or not, there is a bad part of shade, the range on it is quite small actually, I've died so many times because I was out of range of my shade. And if you want to talk about bad players surviving without skill and effort, how bout we talk about stamdens? That whole class is overtuned.
    A fairly mediocre nightblade that occasionally kills people
  • redspecter23
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    I completely agree that cloak is broken and to a slightly lesser extent streak. Good luck convincing the hardcore NB and sorc players of that though.

    Disengaging from combat should be a difficult task once engaged. Resetting the fight should be something that happens when one side dies, one side gives up or if you are extremely skilled or lucky enough to leave the battle and not be followed.
  • Noctus
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    Shade is completely balanced xD. It should remain unchanged because it gives a ton of class identity and synergizes really well with nightblade playstyle.

    In case you haven't noticed, nightblade passives offer close to no damage mitigation whatsoever, so having an instant teleport back to somewhere where we can LoS is something we kind of need when we are outnumbered. If you're concerned about 1v1s, very rarely will a good player ever teleport back to shade in 1v1, most of us throw it down for the minor maim.

    Believe it or not, there is a bad part of shade, the range on it is quite small actually, I've died so many times because I was out of range of my shade. And if you want to talk about bad players surviving without skill and effort, how bout we talk about stamdens? That whole class is overtuned.

    mate we are fellow nb i want the class to be buffed but that skill is ridiculous. there is a video of me on a stream hunting down a player in bg and he repeatedly teleports through walls to escape me this went on for a couple of minutes where is the skill in that.

    as i said im all in for buffs but that skill needs to change so its on LOS teleport or even a cooldown idk.

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/568908/will-magnb-perform-well-anytime-soon#latest
  • Noctus
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    Disengaging from combat should be a difficult task once engaged. Resetting the fight should be something that happens when one side dies, one side gives up or if you are extremely skilled or lucky enough to leave the battle and not be followed.

    this is something i absolutely agree with. alltho im fine if someone escapes becouse hes rly skilled somehow in doing so but the skills im talking about are just a buttonpress and done.
    Edited by Noctus on April 8, 2021 11:32PM
  • baselesschart
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    Noctus wrote: »
    mate we are fellow nb i want the class to be buffed but that skill is ridiculous. there is a video of me on a stream hunting down a player in bg and he repeatedly teleports through walls to escape me this went on for a couple of minutes where is the skill in that.

    as i said im all in for buffs but that skill needs to change so its on LOS teleport or even a cooldown idk.

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/568908/will-magnb-perform-well-anytime-soon#latest

    Well then let him be, if a nightblade is abusing shade in that way, he isn't a threat because he isn't any good at the game. Yes he is abusing the skill, but that doesn't equate to the conclusion that the skill is oveperforming. Like I said, a good player will not use the ability like that to get away from 1v1s. There are more cheese and unskillful one tap buttons in the game like arctic blast, and blocking. At least with shade, you can get killed coming out of shade at the other end of the teleport, projectiles cast at you follow you through there. If someone spams cloak, uh oh does that mean cloak is broken? No not in the slightest, and arguably cloak doesn't work half the time anyway.
    A fairly mediocre nightblade that occasionally kills people
  • Noctus
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    Noctus wrote: »
    mate we are fellow nb i want the class to be buffed but that skill is ridiculous. there is a video of me on a stream hunting down a player in bg and he repeatedly teleports through walls to escape me this went on for a couple of minutes where is the skill in that.

    as i said im all in for buffs but that skill needs to change so its on LOS teleport or even a cooldown idk.

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/568908/will-magnb-perform-well-anytime-soon#latest

    Well then let him be, if a nightblade is abusing shade in that way, he isn't a threat because he isn't any good at the game. Yes he is abusing the skill, but that doesn't equate to the conclusion that the skill is oveperforming. Like I said, a good player will not use the ability like that to get away from 1v1s. There are more cheese and unskillful one tap buttons in the game like arctic blast, and blocking. At least with shade, you can get killed coming out of shade at the other end of the teleport, projectiles cast at you follow you through there. If someone spams cloak, uh oh does that mean cloak is broken? No not in the slightest, and arguably cloak doesn't work half the time anyway.

    if someone spams cloak i use radiant light. cloak is not even close as effective.

    i rly dislike the let him be mentality if everyone thinks that way there wouldnt be any kills scored in the game.

    u dont need to bring up other skills that have a completely different mechanic i wish nb skills would be buffed to be that effective. its just a certain mechanic which is skilless here.

    escaping should take as much skill as chasing and that is not given with the skills i mentioned.

    if u ask me id remove cast time from soul harvest. give speedbuff back to cripling grasp, make merciless instant hit and funnel health a beam like skill so it doesnt count as projectile anymore also give concealed weapon a much needed dmg or speed boost while using it. 20 % while cloak doesnt cut it especially since most ppl backbar cloak and frontbar concealed.
    Edited by Noctus on April 9, 2021 12:07AM
  • divnyi
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    I just hope none of your suggestions would be implemented.

    Shade requires setup to escape and has a time window, and needs a proper placement, and has pretty bad range (again, proper placement, behind walls etc). If you think it is EZ then build your blade and roll.

    Setting up the kill and escape routes is NBs identity. You shouldn't remove the tools. Especially that it's not the ultimate solution, I can still catch NBs like that rolling in big stealth detection with +45% speed bonus + sprint, way higher than they can put without losing cloak.
  • Noctus
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    divnyi wrote: »
    I just hope none of your suggestions would be implemented.

    Shade requires setup to escape and has a time window, and needs a proper placement, and has pretty bad range (again, proper placement, behind walls etc). If you think it is EZ then build your blade and roll.

    Setting up the kill and escape routes is NBs identity. You shouldn't remove the tools. Especially that it's not the ultimate solution, I can still catch NBs like that rolling in big stealth detection with +45% speed bonus + sprint, way higher than they can put without losing cloak.

    im not saying to delete the skills function im jsut saying to have the neccessity of LOS. so that if teleport happens the person chasing has a small chance atleast to still engage on target. i would even suggest a buff in range its just the LOS thats a problem.


    right now its hopeless unless the nb has no skill/experience whatsoever. with my main build i allready rarely die in high mmr bg even without shadow image.
    u can see this in DecimusHD streams. im a magblade main in light armor and EUPC high mmr is damn difficult.
    ur wrong if u think i dont play the class its my main and i understand better than most ppl how weak the class is.
    i take it ur NA ?

    we magblade lack in survivability in combat and offense. shadow image has nothing to do with both things its just a cheap way out of any situation no matter how skilled ur opponent is u will survive using it which is not good it just has nothing to do with skill.
    Edited by Noctus on April 9, 2021 1:15PM
  • katorga
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    The problem is not the escape tools. The are cool, unique, and aligned with class design.

    The problem is that some classes are missing key pieces of class kit. Some classes lack escape, mobility, executes, CC's, key buffs, burst skills. Others have everything built in, often with multiple options. The classes with everything built in are inherently stronger than the classes with missing kit.

  • divnyi
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    It is supposed to be tricky. If it would require clean LOS it would be worse than straight streak that requires no setup. Here you need setup to do one tricky escape. You still eat all the dots afterwards and can just straight out die from burst before you get into it's tiny range. I call it balanced.

    "with my main build i allready rarely die in high mmr bg even without shadow image." -- not dying is not enough, you need to have positive impact. It's hard as BG meta is bruisers you can't burst down. But that doesn't mean you need to gut assassin part toolkit of NB in favour of fighter toolkit. Metas change. Gutted skills die. Assassin gameplay is unique feature of NB that is sleeper OP in any meta where going damage and <25k is beneficial.
  • exeeter702
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    Noctus wrote: »
    divnyi wrote: »
    I just hope none of your suggestions would be implemented.

    Shade requires setup to escape and has a time window, and needs a proper placement, and has pretty bad range (again, proper placement, behind walls etc). If you think it is EZ then build your blade and roll.

    Setting up the kill and escape routes is NBs identity. You shouldn't remove the tools. Especially that it's not the ultimate solution, I can still catch NBs like that rolling in big stealth detection with +45% speed bonus + sprint, way higher than they can put without losing cloak.

    im not saying to delete the skills function im jsut saying to have the neccessity of LOS. so that if teleport happens the person chasing has a small chance atleast to still engage on target. i would even suggest a buff in range its just the LOS thats a problem.


    right now its hopeless unless the nb has no skill/experience whatsoever. with my main build i allready rarely die in high mmr bg even without shadow image.
    u can see this in DecimusHD streams. im a magblade main in light armor and EUPC high mmr is damn difficult.
    ur wrong if u think i dont play the class its my main and i understand better than most ppl how weak the class is.
    i take it ur NA ?

    we magblade lack in survivability in combat and offense. shadow image has nothing to do with both things its just a cheap way out of any situation no matter how skilled ur opponent is u will survive using it which is not good it just has nothing to do with skill.

    What do you mean. small chance? The issue here is your mentality I believe. If not for los, the skill would be dead full stop. There is no interesting kite mechanic in eso, gap closers are bound only by the GCD and resource cost. There is no thought to it, there is no interesting decision making for gap closing because there are no CDs that both players need to play around deciding whether its prudent to gap close or wait.

    If someone is constantly running away from you in a bg, consider it a victory and deal with it. Shade not working on different levels of elevation or through los was make it an absolute meme of a skill in the face of any melee build with a gap closer.
  • Noctus
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    exeeter702 wrote: »
    Noctus wrote: »
    divnyi wrote: »
    I just hope none of your suggestions would be implemented.

    Shade requires setup to escape and has a time window, and needs a proper placement, and has pretty bad range (again, proper placement, behind walls etc). If you think it is EZ then build your blade and roll.

    Setting up the kill and escape routes is NBs identity. You shouldn't remove the tools. Especially that it's not the ultimate solution, I can still catch NBs like that rolling in big stealth detection with +45% speed bonus + sprint, way higher than they can put without losing cloak.

    im not saying to delete the skills function im jsut saying to have the neccessity of LOS. so that if teleport happens the person chasing has a small chance atleast to still engage on target. i would even suggest a buff in range its just the LOS thats a problem.


    right now its hopeless unless the nb has no skill/experience whatsoever. with my main build i allready rarely die in high mmr bg even without shadow image.
    u can see this in DecimusHD streams. im a magblade main in light armor and EUPC high mmr is damn difficult.
    ur wrong if u think i dont play the class its my main and i understand better than most ppl how weak the class is.
    i take it ur NA ?

    we magblade lack in survivability in combat and offense. shadow image has nothing to do with both things its just a cheap way out of any situation no matter how skilled ur opponent is u will survive using it which is not good it just has nothing to do with skill.

    What do you mean. small chance? The issue here is your mentality I believe. If not for los, the skill would be dead full stop. There is no interesting kite mechanic in eso, gap closers are bound only by the GCD and resource cost. There is no thought to it, there is no interesting decision making for gap closing because there are no CDs that both players need to play around deciding whether its prudent to gap close or wait.

    If someone is constantly running away from you in a bg, consider it a victory and deal with it. Shade not working on different levels of elevation or through los was make it an absolute meme of a skill in the face of any melee build with a gap closer.

    well my mentality is pretty simple if it comes to pvp. not dying is not winning. i dont want ppl to survive by a simple trick.
    chasing someone and escaping should be equally difficult things.

    i see ppl are not rly fond of it but its also not as important to me as ball of lightning tbh.
  • exeeter702
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    Noctus wrote: »
    exeeter702 wrote: »
    Noctus wrote: »
    divnyi wrote: »
    I just hope none of your suggestions would be implemented.

    Shade requires setup to escape and has a time window, and needs a proper placement, and has pretty bad range (again, proper placement, behind walls etc). If you think it is EZ then build your blade and roll.

    Setting up the kill and escape routes is NBs identity. You shouldn't remove the tools. Especially that it's not the ultimate solution, I can still catch NBs like that rolling in big stealth detection with +45% speed bonus + sprint, way higher than they can put without losing cloak.

    im not saying to delete the skills function im jsut saying to have the neccessity of LOS. so that if teleport happens the person chasing has a small chance atleast to still engage on target. i would even suggest a buff in range its just the LOS thats a problem.


    right now its hopeless unless the nb has no skill/experience whatsoever. with my main build i allready rarely die in high mmr bg even without shadow image.
    u can see this in DecimusHD streams. im a magblade main in light armor and EUPC high mmr is damn difficult.
    ur wrong if u think i dont play the class its my main and i understand better than most ppl how weak the class is.
    i take it ur NA ?

    we magblade lack in survivability in combat and offense. shadow image has nothing to do with both things its just a cheap way out of any situation no matter how skilled ur opponent is u will survive using it which is not good it just has nothing to do with skill.

    What do you mean. small chance? The issue here is your mentality I believe. If not for los, the skill would be dead full stop. There is no interesting kite mechanic in eso, gap closers are bound only by the GCD and resource cost. There is no thought to it, there is no interesting decision making for gap closing because there are no CDs that both players need to play around deciding whether its prudent to gap close or wait.

    If someone is constantly running away from you in a bg, consider it a victory and deal with it. Shade not working on different levels of elevation or through los was make it an absolute meme of a skill in the face of any melee build with a gap closer.

    well my mentality is pretty simple if it comes to pvp. not dying is not winning. i dont want ppl to survive by a simple trick.
    chasing someone and escaping should be equally difficult things.

    i see ppl are not rly fond of it but its also not as important to me as ball of lightning tbh.

    Its a fair expectation, and in other mmos with solid pvp the dichotomy between keeping distance and kiting is an interesting one. In eso this is unfortunately not the case. Gap closing is far more generous than the ability to keep range, outside of scenarios that should be taken seriously in the first place. You say "small chance" but the reality is, if shade did not work through los (and by extension that would also mean elevation), that means it would only work on the plane that standard gap closers do, which would kill the ability 10 fold.
  • itscompton
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    Noctus wrote: »
    Noctus wrote: »
    mate we are fellow nb i want the class to be buffed but that skill is ridiculous. there is a video of me on a stream hunting down a player in bg and he repeatedly teleports through walls to escape me this went on for a couple of minutes where is the skill in that.

    as i said im all in for buffs but that skill needs to change so its on LOS teleport or even a cooldown idk.

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/568908/will-magnb-perform-well-anytime-soon#latest

    Well then let him be, if a nightblade is abusing shade in that way, he isn't a threat because he isn't any good at the game. Yes he is abusing the skill, but that doesn't equate to the conclusion that the skill is oveperforming. Like I said, a good player will not use the ability like that to get away from 1v1s. There are more cheese and unskillful one tap buttons in the game like arctic blast, and blocking. At least with shade, you can get killed coming out of shade at the other end of the teleport, projectiles cast at you follow you through there. If someone spams cloak, uh oh does that mean cloak is broken? No not in the slightest, and arguably cloak doesn't work half the time anyway.

    if someone spams cloak i use radiant light. cloak is not even close as effective.

    i rly dislike the let him be mentality if everyone thinks that way there wouldnt be any kills scored in the game.

    u dont need to bring up other skills that have a completely different mechanic i wish nb skills would be buffed to be that effective. its just a certain mechanic which is skilless here.

    escaping should take as much skill as chasing and that is not given with the skills i mentioned.

    if u ask me id remove cast time from soul harvest. give speedbuff back to cripling grasp, make merciless instant hit and funnel health a beam like skill so it doesnt count as projectile anymore also give concealed weapon a much needed dmg or speed boost while using it. 20 % while cloak doesnt cut it especially since most ppl backbar cloak and frontbar concealed.

    Take it from someone that has quite a bit of experience on both MagNB and StamNB, the only counter to cloak that's going to catch a skilled NB is a detect potion. I see people running around with their Mage light or Camo hunter and easily slide to the side, just out of range, as they run past me.
    That said simply having lots of movement speed and a decent stamina pool is probably the best/easiest way to be able to disengage if you don't like how a fights going. My StamNB is so fast that I leave streaking sorcs eating dust if they try to chase me.
    Edited by itscompton on April 10, 2021 4:40PM
  • rbfrgsp
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    itscompton wrote: »
    Noctus wrote: »
    Noctus wrote: »
    mate we are fellow nb i want the class to be buffed but that skill is ridiculous. there is a video of me on a stream hunting down a player in bg and he repeatedly teleports through walls to escape me this went on for a couple of minutes where is the skill in that.

    as i said im all in for buffs but that skill needs to change so its on LOS teleport or even a cooldown idk.

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/568908/will-magnb-perform-well-anytime-soon#latest

    Well then let him be, if a nightblade is abusing shade in that way, he isn't a threat because he isn't any good at the game. Yes he is abusing the skill, but that doesn't equate to the conclusion that the skill is oveperforming. Like I said, a good player will not use the ability like that to get away from 1v1s. There are more cheese and unskillful one tap buttons in the game like arctic blast, and blocking. At least with shade, you can get killed coming out of shade at the other end of the teleport, projectiles cast at you follow you through there. If someone spams cloak, uh oh does that mean cloak is broken? No not in the slightest, and arguably cloak doesn't work half the time anyway.

    if someone spams cloak i use radiant light. cloak is not even close as effective.

    i rly dislike the let him be mentality if everyone thinks that way there wouldnt be any kills scored in the game.

    u dont need to bring up other skills that have a completely different mechanic i wish nb skills would be buffed to be that effective. its just a certain mechanic which is skilless here.

    escaping should take as much skill as chasing and that is not given with the skills i mentioned.

    if u ask me id remove cast time from soul harvest. give speedbuff back to cripling grasp, make merciless instant hit and funnel health a beam like skill so it doesnt count as projectile anymore also give concealed weapon a much needed dmg or speed boost while using it. 20 % while cloak doesnt cut it especially since most ppl backbar cloak and frontbar concealed.

    Take it from someone that has quite a bit of experience on both MagNB and StamNB, the only counter to cloak that's going to catch a skilled NB is a detect potion. I see people running around with their Mage light or Camo hunter and easily slide to the side, just out of range, as they run past me.
    That said simply having lots of movement speed and a decent stamina pool is probably the best/easiest way to be able to disengage if you don't like how a fights going. My StamNB is so fast that I leave streaking sorcs eating dust if they try to chase me.

    No, the very best counter to cloak is shalks from a warden who has played as NB. When you can predict the escape route, and your AoE is delayed without much of a tell, you can drag NBs out of cloak with skill-based play. There's no reason why other aoe like acid spray or caltrops (Both available to any player) could not also be that effective but I see it less often.

    On the shade v streak debate, I always felt they got them the wrong way round for class identity. A sorcerer should teleport and a ninja should have a dash type skill. Seems like they should have switched the skills between classes. Obviously if they did that now, everyone would lose their *** though.
  • Merforum
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    Gilvoth wrote: »
    i hope what your suggesting will never happen.
    the whole point of shadow image is to escape and stealth out of line of sight and survive.


    Actually that is only how it is used in PVP. But I think the primary purpose is to have an archer that is supposed attack your enemies with you. If it is hidden in a spot how can it do that. It should move with you but stay at range and attack the opponent then when teleport to it, there will still be LOS. As the OP suggests the way it is now and being used it just plain stupid for everyone except NB exploiting this tactic. Especially when they already have cloak, those 2 together are insane, if used to full effect.

    Ball of Lightning is also broken, even the main morph is as far as getting away. I just the other day walked around the corner on my stam sorc to see all 4 red team ready to nuke me, I streaked through them, then saw all 4 players on purple (on any other toon I am dead for sure surrounded by 8 enemies) and just streak right through stunning purple too, and one more streak for good measure and I was totally out of danger.

    A possible fix would be to make the distant much shorter, like 5 meters or add a cooldown. Even a 2 second cooldown would make it so it is still effective but not game breaking.
  • Merforum
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    Merforum wrote: »
    Gilvoth wrote: »
    i hope what your suggesting will never happen.
    the whole point of shadow image is to escape and stealth out of line of sight and survive.


    Actually that is only how it is used in PVP. But I think the primary purpose is to have an archer that is supposed attack your enemies with you. If it is hidden in a spot how can it do that. It should move with you but stay at range and attack the opponent then when teleport to it, there will still be LOS. As the OP suggests the way it is now and being used it just plain stupid for everyone except NB exploiting this tactic. Especially when they already have cloak, those 2 together are insane, if used to full effect.

    Ball of Lightning is also broken, even the main morph is as far as getting away. I just the other day walked around the corner on my stam sorc to see all 4 red team ready to nuke me, I streaked through them, then saw all 4 players on purple (on any other toon I am dead for sure surrounded by 8 enemies) and just streak right through stunning purple too, and one more streak for good measure and I was totally out of danger.

    A possible fix would be to make the distant much shorter, like 5 meters or add a cooldown. Even a 2 second cooldown would make it so it is still effective but not game breaking.

    Also Stam NB doesn't suffer in damage area at all, you can do just what 90% of people in PVP do already back bar bow to spam la, poison inject, front bar 2hand to do dawnbreaker, dzzy, execute, rally for good measure. For stam toons the damage skills are essential the same for all classes and same combos, what makes any class different is escape abilities, used to full effect shade/cloak are better than anything else, only harder to use (which means you can stack more into damage).

    BTW using shade or cloak also gives major resist which is probably best mitigation passive in game to the person who said NB passives are bad. Also surprise attack is probably the only class spammable that is on par with dzzy. I am not good at the super fasted paced gamestyle but for anyone that is, NB is probably best for PVP, especially since many aspects of PVP favor that playstyle (ie targeting being clunky and easily exploitable by just jumping in some cases).

    Streak/bol is also OP but much easier to use than shade/cloak, resulting in many more sorcs. Also lower cost dawnbreaker, weapon damage boost etc make sorc on par with NB but easier to use. Stamward/cro have insane healing/mitigation (which is more in line with my slow paced tanky playstyle, which is just as valid but most PVPer want to stop) and have shalk/BB to add a little more complexity to combo but much more burst, which gives them the edge over most other class right now. Overall PVP is quite boring, as essentially the same stam combo is used over and over on every class and not much difference, with a few outperforming skills in a few classes.

    Proc sets, using mag toons and trying other skill combos in PVP was actually fun for a little while but now we are essentially back to the same stam based playstyle, with same old 2hand combo dominating everything.
    Edited by Merforum on April 10, 2021 10:15PM
  • Pauls
    Pauls
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    Nerf warden
  • Noctus
    Noctus
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    Pauls wrote: »
    Nerf warden

    everyone agrees to that
  • baselesschart
    baselesschart
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    Merforum wrote: »



    BTW using shade or cloak also gives major resist which is probably best mitigation passive in game to the person who said NB passives are bad. .

    Lol I never said nightblade passives were bad, I said they offered little to no damage mitigation. Which shadow barrier is the little that the passives offer for resistances, and even though its nearly 6k resistances, I still don't stack up to the tankiness of wardens and necros, and I shouldn't because nightblade is not meant to be resistant. That still doesn't change the fact that wardens and necros need to be nerfed though.
    A fairly mediocre nightblade that occasionally kills people
  • divnyi
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    Necros and Wardens and Sorcs are fine. We need to buff the rest of the classes, not nerfing everything to the state where only correct way to play a game is slotting all neutral abilities.
  • Merforum
    Merforum
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    Merforum wrote: »



    BTW using shade or cloak also gives major resist which is probably best mitigation passive in game to the person who said NB passives are bad. .

    Lol I never said nightblade passives were bad, I said they offered little to no damage mitigation. Which shadow barrier is the little that the passives offer for resistances, and even though its nearly 6k resistances, I still don't stack up to the tankiness of wardens and necros, and I shouldn't because nightblade is not meant to be resistant. That still doesn't change the fact that wardens and necros need to be nerfed though.

    I would say you a underestimating that passive, I don't know how many times I have killed someone and 10x more times I died because my resistance buff fell off at end of fight that literally made the difference of living or dying. But on Stam NB using surprise attack/shade/cloak enough to have that buff never fall off, is a life saver. Here's a test, remove that passive and try PVP for a little while and report back if there is a difference.
  • baselesschart
    baselesschart
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    Merforum wrote: »
    I would say you a underestimating that passive, I don't know how many times I have killed someone and 10x more times I died because my resistance buff fell off at end of fight that literally made the difference of living or dying. But on Stam NB using surprise attack/shade/cloak enough to have that buff never fall off, is a life saver. Here's a test, remove that passive and try PVP for a little while and report back if there is a difference.

    I am not underestimating that passive. It is a very helpful passive and I always have it up, but what I said previously still stands. You cannot rely on that passive to soak up damage for you because even with it, resists are still quite low. I barely break 24k resists with shadow barrier up. Thats why you need to shade and cloak with LoS to avoid damage because nightblade doesn't have enough built in mitigation and healing to 'tank it out'.
    A fairly mediocre nightblade that occasionally kills people
  • Merforum
    Merforum
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    Merforum wrote: »
    I would say you a underestimating that passive, I don't know how many times I have killed someone and 10x more times I died because my resistance buff fell off at end of fight that literally made the difference of living or dying. But on Stam NB using surprise attack/shade/cloak enough to have that buff never fall off, is a life saver. Here's a test, remove that passive and try PVP for a little while and report back if there is a difference.

    I am not underestimating that passive. It is a very helpful passive and I always have it up, but what I said previously still stands. You cannot rely on that passive to soak up damage for you because even with it, resists are still quite low. I barely break 24k resists with shadow barrier up. Thats why you need to shade and cloak with LoS to avoid damage because nightblade doesn't have enough built in mitigation and healing to 'tank it out'.

    Sorry wasn't trying to call you out. Just when I saw that statement that NB doesn't have good mitigation it didn't match my experience at all. I pug normal dungeons as tank every day for several months/years now and use all 6 classes on my stam DPS toons. And use exact same gear with mostly same skills, same CP etc, and obviously my DK feels tankiest, believe it or not NB tank is 2nd (health, ult, recovery passives are great) or same as templar. What I mean is that my health is never low and even if I accidentally miss a block or something I don't come close to dying. Don't get me wrong on Sorc, Wrdn, Ncro tanking is pretty strong too. Also my Wrdn is Nord and feels the same as NB redguard.

    And if you can effectively use cloak/shade in PVP the mitigation is off the charts meaning you're literally gone. No other class has even 1 skill that good, let alone 2 skills like that (closest may be streak/bol). The only downside to NB is that it takes a lot more practice to be able to use effectively and you have to like super fast play style which is I dislike the most so will never be good at it.
  • Amottica
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    Noctus wrote: »
    Noctus wrote: »
    mate we are fellow nb i want the class to be buffed but that skill is ridiculous. there is a video of me on a stream hunting down a player in bg and he repeatedly teleports through walls to escape me this went on for a couple of minutes where is the skill in that.

    as i said im all in for buffs but that skill needs to change so its on LOS teleport or even a cooldown idk.

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/568908/will-magnb-perform-well-anytime-soon#latest

    Well then let him be, if a nightblade is abusing shade in that way, he isn't a threat because he isn't any good at the game. Yes he is abusing the skill, but that doesn't equate to the conclusion that the skill is oveperforming. Like I said, a good player will not use the ability like that to get away from 1v1s. There are more cheese and unskillful one tap buttons in the game like arctic blast, and blocking. At least with shade, you can get killed coming out of shade at the other end of the teleport, projectiles cast at you follow you through there. If someone spams cloak, uh oh does that mean cloak is broken? No not in the slightest, and arguably cloak doesn't work half the time anyway.

    if someone spams cloak i use radiant light. cloak is not even close as effective.

    i rly dislike the let him be mentality if everyone thinks that way there wouldnt be any kills scored in the game.

    u dont need to bring up other skills that have a completely different mechanic i wish nb skills would be buffed to be that effective. its just a certain mechanic which is skilless here.

    escaping should take as much skill as chasing and that is not given with the skills i mentioned.

    if u ask me id remove cast time from soul harvest. give speedbuff back to cripling grasp, make merciless instant hit and funnel health a beam like skill so it doesnt count as projectile anymore also give concealed weapon a much needed dmg or speed boost while using it. 20 % while cloak doesnt cut it especially since most ppl backbar cloak and frontbar concealed.

    I had wondered if players had the means to pull a NB out of stealth since guards are able to. It is good to know it can be done to keep the skill from being over powered. Is that why some say NBs cloak is broken because it can be rendered useless?
  • Noctus
    Noctus
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    Amottica wrote: »
    Noctus wrote: »
    Noctus wrote: »
    mate we are fellow nb i want the class to be buffed but that skill is ridiculous. there is a video of me on a stream hunting down a player in bg and he repeatedly teleports through walls to escape me this went on for a couple of minutes where is the skill in that.

    as i said im all in for buffs but that skill needs to change so its on LOS teleport or even a cooldown idk.

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/568908/will-magnb-perform-well-anytime-soon#latest

    Well then let him be, if a nightblade is abusing shade in that way, he isn't a threat because he isn't any good at the game. Yes he is abusing the skill, but that doesn't equate to the conclusion that the skill is oveperforming. Like I said, a good player will not use the ability like that to get away from 1v1s. There are more cheese and unskillful one tap buttons in the game like arctic blast, and blocking. At least with shade, you can get killed coming out of shade at the other end of the teleport, projectiles cast at you follow you through there. If someone spams cloak, uh oh does that mean cloak is broken? No not in the slightest, and arguably cloak doesn't work half the time anyway.

    if someone spams cloak i use radiant light. cloak is not even close as effective.

    i rly dislike the let him be mentality if everyone thinks that way there wouldnt be any kills scored in the game.

    u dont need to bring up other skills that have a completely different mechanic i wish nb skills would be buffed to be that effective. its just a certain mechanic which is skilless here.

    escaping should take as much skill as chasing and that is not given with the skills i mentioned.

    if u ask me id remove cast time from soul harvest. give speedbuff back to cripling grasp, make merciless instant hit and funnel health a beam like skill so it doesnt count as projectile anymore also give concealed weapon a much needed dmg or speed boost while using it. 20 % while cloak doesnt cut it especially since most ppl backbar cloak and frontbar concealed.

    I had wondered if players had the means to pull a NB out of stealth since guards are able to. It is good to know it can be done to keep the skill from being over powered. Is that why some say NBs cloak is broken because it can be rendered useless?

    depends. most effective classes to pull nb out of stealth are templar (jabs) and dk(fiery breath). the easiest way tho is radiant light with 12 meters range and if u rly mean to get those nb u go for detect pot. BUT well u can get magblades with it but stamblades just gonna rolldodge many times and find an opportunity to stealth again.

    this is what bothers me personally tho cloak is more effective on stamblade than magblade. u will notice urself magblades are way easier to kill and hunt down than stamblades which have mitigation outside of cloak which they use to cloak in the right moment.
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