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Companions will kill this game
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Jacozilla✭✭✭✭✭The_Old_Goat wrote: »As a long time eso player(6 years give or take), I'm pretty excited with this addition to the game. You see I often play with older, non meta players who like to dip their toes into some harder content on their terms and the companions will help with that. I was thinking more about the companion system yesterday and did come up with one concern. The companions need to be leveled up and my concern is whether some of the experience we're earning will be split off towards leveling them thus slowing our cp gains. Anybody have any insight or thoughts on this?
To be honest I hope that's the case as it will deter people from carrying their companions around wherever they go, rather than just summoning them when they really need them.
I can’t imagine it would work any different than leveling morphs.
We don’t earn less xp today just because you have morphs on your bars that need leveling vs when using all maxed out morphs.
Can’t say for sure of course till zos announces or companions arrive, but it should work same as morphs - any xp earned has a portion of that xp go to each of the applicable bar items - today each skill on bar plus ulti slotted plus weapon used earns 1/7th of all xp your char did.
No idea if companions will earn 1:1 or some fraction, but nothing they earn should reduce your char xp if it works like current system0 -
Jacozilla✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »"NeeScrolls wrote: »
How many times do you think casual players have been told they aren't real gamers because they don't play the way the elitists do?
And that they need to "git gud"?
And that they are ruining the game for the elitists by not meeting their standards?
And that if they don't play the way the elitists do they shouldn't even be playing an MMO?
That goes both ways.
Bingo
It's that kind of privileged gatekeeping that makes causal players ask for something like companions in the first place. Elitist players should have zero control over casual players...right now that just isn't reality .
How are they gatekeepers if all they do is prevent you from being in their groups? Genuinely curious.
If you are saying because you can’t complete that content without those same elitists, then yes they are gatekeepers but you would also be saying you can’t do that content without those same elitists (e.g. need their carry)
If you say no, don’t need those elitists in your group to complete any given content, then they are by definition not gatekeepers.
Pick which one, can’t have it both ways.1 -
Alurria✭✭✭✭✭
✭Seraphayel wrote: »universal_wrath wrote: »with the addition of companions, the game is basically just a solo game now with other people doing their thing. PUGS will no longer exist because people can make their own groups with companions, also the dps will be if anything better with a companion, thus forcing 'pet' builds on everyone for best dps. I don't see any part of this that will work out well in an online game
Zos could easily prevent companions from group activities like public qnd group dungeons.
The purpose of companions is so solo people can do group content smh
Yeah and that’s already a logical flaw. Group dungeons and trials are not meant to be soloed. If they were meant to be soloed, they wouldn’t be group dungeons / activities.
It's not a flaw if the developer intends for companions to allow solo players to play group content. I think you may want to rephrase that, you are not the developer therefore you can not pass judgement on companions. This conversation is about companions remember?0 -
Supreme_Atromancer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MMOers: "If you want to play your way and are too slow, go and queue with friends."
Also MMOers: "Companions will remove people from dungeon queues and kill the game!!"9 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'd think the elitists would be happy about this. Then they don't have to deal with the rest of us any more.PCNA9 -
Agenericname✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SilverBride wrote: »Agenericname wrote: »...they're not gatekeepers. They can't stop anyone from attempting or completing ANY content in this game, only in their groups.
Pugs aren't their groups, but they dictate that, too. They berate other members of the group and kick them if they don't meet their standards. This should never happen in a pug.Agenericname wrote: »You're free to make your own and run however you'd like.
So are they, and that is exactly what they should be doing if they have such high standards.
Berating people shouldn't happen in PUG or in private groups.
Like I said, they can't actually stop you from doing anything. The dungeon finder isn't and never has been a guarantee for success. It doesn't entitle you, or me, to someone else's time. That's never been a promise that ZOS could make and I've never seen them attempt to make it. They provide an opportunity, that's all. PUGs are in essence a direct democracy. If you get kicked from a PUG it's because 3 other people agreed. At that point it's 75% of the group. I'd argue that they have a greater stake, and effectively their group.
If companions allow people to avoid this, then I'm for it. I wouldn't deny that it happens, only that it presents a real barrier. I don't think that I'll ever use them, although extra inventory does sound kinda nice if they go that route.1 -
Alurria✭✭✭✭✭
✭SilverBride wrote: »"NeeScrolls wrote: »
How many times do you think casual players have been told they aren't real gamers because they don't play the way the elitists do?
And that they need to "git gud"?
And that they are ruining the game for the elitists by not meeting their standards?
And that if they don't play the way the elitists do they shouldn't even be playing an MMO?
That goes both ways.
Bingo
It's that kind of privileged gatekeeping that makes causal players ask for something like companions in the first place. Elitist players should have zero control over casual players...right now that just isn't reality .
How are they gatekeepers if all they do is prevent you from being in their groups? Genuinely curious.
If you are saying because you can’t complete that content without those same elitists, then yes they are gatekeepers but you would also be saying you can’t do that content without those same elitists (e.g. need their carry)
If you say no, don’t need those elitists in your group to complete any given content, then they are by definition not gatekeepers.
Pick which one, can’t have it both ways.
They are gate keeps if you are in a pug with someone who kicks you because you don't have the gear or cp then having to reque because someone just kicked you from group. Or not allowing you to speak to quest npcs by rushing because they have 18 other characters to run through dungeons. Or even the streamers who say you have to have this build to complete content then all the streamer fanboys echo that. There have been those who consider themselves elite throughout all the games I've played and they can be obnoxious. I would rather be with a newer player than to be in a group of elitists. So I just don't group I solo. This type of toxic behavior is the reason I am glad there will be companions in game.1 -
robertthebard✭✭✭✭✭Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »MMOers: "If you want to play your way and are too slow, go and queue with friends."
Also MMOers: "Companions will remove people from dungeon queues and kill the game!!"
You'd think they'd be happy to get those people that "slow them down" out of their queues, yes?7 -
Supreme_Atromancer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Septimus_Magna wrote: »
I respect everyone's position in this but I have to say its annoying to wipe constantly because group members dont follow mechanics. If you want to learn it on the fly be sure to pay attention to what other people are saying in chat. Otherwise its disrespectful and you're just wasting other peoples time.
Companions will probably increase the gap between these player groups, two experienced players with companions dont need any other players to fill up the group. And two casual players with companions will probably have a tough time in normal DLC dungeons.
How are they gatekeepers if all they do is prevent you from being in their groups? Genuinely curious.
If you are saying because you can’t complete that content without those same elitists, then yes they are gatekeepers but you would also be saying you can’t do that content without those same elitists (e.g. need their carry)
If you say no, don’t need those elitists in your group to complete any given content, then they are by definition not gatekeepers.
Pick which one, can’t have it both ways.
You're right to point this out, but I don't think its really this black and white. If the status quo was experienced players patiently helping these casual players in the first place, this wouldn't even be a problem.
When I first started playing, I was completely new to MMOs. I copped so much crap while I was genuinely trying to learn. Gaming lost its fun, and it became a stressful, negative experience as it obviously would for any human being.I removed myself from queues and ran only with friends. Now we regularly complete the most difficult content in the game with a little effort.
This is not an atypical experience.
No one actually needs hardcore sweats. The gatekeeping is based on nothing but hot air and entitlement.Edited by Supreme_Atromancer on April 2, 2021 7:40PM3 -
Jacozilla✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »"NeeScrolls wrote: »
How many times do you think casual players have been told they aren't real gamers because they don't play the way the elitists do?
And that they need to "git gud"?
And that they are ruining the game for the elitists by not meeting their standards?
And that if they don't play the way the elitists do they shouldn't even be playing an MMO?
That goes both ways.
Bingo
It's that kind of privileged gatekeeping that makes causal players ask for something like companions in the first place. Elitist players should have zero control over casual players...right now that just isn't reality .
How are they gatekeepers if all they do is prevent you from being in their groups? Genuinely curious.
If you are saying because you can’t complete that content without those same elitists, then yes they are gatekeepers but you would also be saying you can’t do that content without those same elitists (e.g. need their carry)
If you say no, don’t need those elitists in your group to complete any given content, then they are by definition not gatekeepers.
Pick which one, can’t have it both ways.
They are gate keeps if you are in a pug with someone who kicks you because you don't have the gear or cp then having to reque because someone just kicked you from group. Or not allowing you to speak to quest npcs by rushing because they have 18 other characters to run through dungeons. Or even the streamers who say you have to have this build to complete content then all the streamer fanboys echo that. There have been those who consider themselves elite throughout all the games I've played and they can be obnoxious. I would rather be with a newer player than to be in a group of elitists. So I just don't group I solo. This type of toxic behavior is the reason I am glad there will be companions in game.
Then call them toxic, which is a subjective personal opinion and can’t be right or wrong - it’s your opinion so right from your POV and debatable by others. They could very well think the same, e.g. you are toxic.
But fair enough, both sides think wasting each other’s time.
However, can’t be gatekeepers unless you are saying can’t complete whatever content without their help. A gatekeeper literally blocks you from going beyond that point.
If you don’t need them to pass beyond that content checkpoint, they can be any subjective adjective you care to describe them as, but gatekeeper holding casuals back can’t be it.1 -
CableBomb✭✭✭I think this feature will be used by players that are already solo and that players like myself that like Trials and stuff won't be lured away by a 5K DPS, taunt-only Tank and Healer that is less useful than my ability to self-heal.3 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »universal_wrath wrote: »with the addition of companions, the game is basically just a solo game now with other people doing their thing. PUGS will no longer exist because people can make their own groups with companions, also the dps will be if anything better with a companion, thus forcing 'pet' builds on everyone for best dps. I don't see any part of this that will work out well in an online game
Zos could easily prevent companions from group activities like public qnd group dungeons.
The purpose of companions is so solo people can do group content smh
Yeah and that’s already a logical flaw. Group dungeons and trials are not meant to be soloed. If they were meant to be soloed, they wouldn’t be group dungeons / activities.
It's not a flaw if the developer intends for companions to allow solo players to play group content. I think you may want to rephrase that, you are not the developer therefore you can not pass judgement on companions. This conversation is about companions remember?
I will not rephrase it as ZOS approach has already built in the logical flaw I am talking about. Group content shouldn’t be soloed unless you’re an excellent player. Companions should not act as crutches that make you solo content that you otherwise couldn’t (again, except you’re an outstanding player).
It’s the same argument of the PvE crowd that wants a PvP free Cyrodiil. Maybe this type of content a) isn’t for you or b) it’s for you but you need to adapt to it.
The idea of companions helping you in group content is detrimental to the idea of MMORPGs, but that’s my opinion about it.Edited by Seraphayel on April 2, 2021 8:43PMPS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -0 -
marshill88✭✭✭✭Why. In. The. World. WOuld I need a companion? The overworld is easy enough as it is. 95% of this game's overworld is so easy, the stuff that attacks me is merely an annoyance, and I'm just level 40.1
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SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭marshill88 wrote: »Why. In. The. World. WOuld I need a companion? The overworld is easy enough as it is. 95% of this game's overworld is so easy, the stuff that attacks me is merely an annoyance, and I'm just level 40.
They aren't being implemented for overland, although you could use them there if you wish.
If you don't want to use a companion don't. It's not mandatory.Edited by SilverBride on April 2, 2021 8:45PMPCNA6 -
Klad✭✭✭✭
How are they gatekeepers if all they do is prevent you from being in their groups? Genuinely curious.
First off it isn't "their" group the pug belongs to everyone that queued for it.
If you are saying because you can’t complete that content without those same elitists, then yes they are gatekeepers but you would also be saying you can’t do that content without those same elitists (e.g. need their carry)
If you say no, don’t need those elitists in your group to complete any given content, then they are by definition not gatekeepers.
Pick which one, can’t have it both ways.
sigh...I think it's useless argue about stuff we can't change.
It's sorta like folks are complaining about so called "bad people" in their pugs, but also they are getting their noses bent out of shape because the developer is effectively removing that nuisance from said pugs.
I mean it's not like elitist players are complaining about casuals getting companions just because they love to berate and insult people online...
Right?
Edited by Klad on April 2, 2021 9:17PM3 -
NeeScrolls✭✭✭✭
. Elitist players should have zero control over casual players...right now that just isn't reality .
No one, other than Zenimax, has any "control" of you in a video-game.
If you believe otherwise, it might be a good idea to re-think your perspective & mindset.
----SilverBride wrote: »
Pugs aren't their groups, but they dictate that, too.
Only if you let them.
---
So just /add-ignore them and move on.SilverBride wrote: »They berate other members of the group and kick them if they don't meet their standards,
Find a GUILD of more like-minded individuals. Easier said than done of course, but still a very realistic solution.
---SilverBride wrote: »and stop them from taking time to loot or do quests.
Again, unless they are paying your sub, how exactly can any PLAYER "stop" you from loot or quests?
If "they" are trolls, don't feed them.
If "they" are rude, ignore them.
If "they" are stopping/griefing you, report them.
And if "they" are bullies (who btw are really cowards at their core) , don't show them how much they get to you.
THAT is how you change behaviors & patterns. With HUMAN countermeasures & interactions. Not with ai companions.
Edited by NeeScrolls on April 2, 2021 9:08PM2 -
arena25✭✭✭✭✭Let me let y'all in on a little secret:
This companion system ESO is going for was "stolen" directly from EA's and BioWare's SWTOR, a Star Wars themed MMO.
And the reason I know this is because I am currently taking a break from ESO to play SWTOR, and the way Zeni's dev team describes the companion system they're trying to build sounds exactly like SWTOR's companion system.
Now whether ESO is actually stealing SWTOR's ideas for a companion system or not, I can attest that SWTOR, while a great idea for a Star Wars themed MMO in theory, is suffering from bad mismanagement by EA. I imagine that if ESO's new companion system is in fact an idea taken from SWTOR, they're essentially saying to SWTOR's players "Guys, you and I both know SWTOR is suffering from bad mismanagement, here's a game which you might actually enjoy."
If in fact Zeni stole the idea from SWTOR, this is exactly what I and several others warned about in regards to ESO developing its own deal rather than trying to steal and copy ideas from other games. ESO is NOT going to take the King of MMO Mountain title from World of Warcraft by copying ideas from other games. ESO needs to develop its own deal if it wants to outlast World of Warcraft. The more unique ESO becomes in the MMORPG world, the more likely it is WoW refugees will rush over here and stay here the next time Blizzard angers their players (which apparently is happening on a regular basis in recent years).If you can't handle the heat...stay out of the kitchen!1 -
Abelon✭✭✭✭✭NeeScrolls wrote: »
THAT is how you change behaviors & patterns. With HUMAN countermeasures & interactions. Not with ai companions.
I am not interested in changing behaviors and patterns of random unpleasant people I meet in a video game. I come here to play, I come here to relax, to have fun, to get immersed. Not to follow instructions on how to make rude, elitist players better.
And ai companions will let me have fun in a game that I want to have fun in. It's that simpleEdited by Abelon on April 2, 2021 9:16PM9 -
Klad✭✭✭✭NeeScrolls wrote: »
. Elitist players should have zero control over casual players...right now that just isn't reality .
No one, other than Zenimax, has any "control" of you in a video-game.
If you believe otherwise, it might be a good idea to re-think your perspective & mindset.
----SilverBride wrote: »
Pugs aren't their groups, but they dictate that, too.
Only if you let them.
---
So just /add-ignore them and move on.SilverBride wrote: »They berate other members of the group and kick them if they don't meet their standards,
Find a GUILD of more like-minded individuals. Easier said than done of course, but still a very realistic solution.
---SilverBride wrote: »and stop them from taking time to loot or do quests.
Again, unless they are paying your sub, how exactly can any PLAYER "stop" you from loot or quests?
If "they" are trolls, don't feed them.
If "they" are rude, ignore them.
If "they" are stopping/griefing you, report them.
And if "they" are bullies (who btw are really cowards at their core) , don't show them how much they get to you.
THAT is how you change behaviors & patterns. With HUMAN countermeasures & interactions. Not with ai companions.
Sorry it is not my job to try to change behaviors and patters this is entertainment, I Pay ZoS money to entertain me, not to be judged and harassed by someone that doesn't even know me.Edited by Klad on April 2, 2021 9:30PM7 -
NeeScrolls✭✭✭✭
This companion system ESO is going for was "stolen" directly from EA's and BioWare's SWTOR, a Star Wars themed MMO.
I've been playing BOTH since beta of both, and the truth is: Both games "steal" from (aka are inspired by) eachother.
For example, SWTOR, unfortunately, has recently "stolen" ESO's wonderfully obstrusive *promotional items you can buy now now now!!!!!* immediately upon login pop-ups 24/7.
---
I am not interested in changing behaviors and patterns of random unpleasant people I meet in a video game.
That's not exactly what i meant. What i meant was, the notion of changing patterns & behaviors of the COMMUNITY as a whole, so that the game is more pleasant experience more consistently overall, for players like You and for everyone (grouped or not) .
We're all in this together, gang. That's all i meant.
---I come here to play, I come here to relax, to have fun, to get immersed.
Me too! And i've been doing exactly just that since 2013, without any significant problems/preventions (other than a couple hackers/thieves, which Zenimax CSR's kindly took care of) despite the supposed rampage of "elitists gatekeepers" .
So how come i (and my guild) can play just fine without being "gate-kept", but yet certain other players can't?
---Not to follow instructions on how to make rude, elitist players better.
Please re-read my other post, cuz that's def. not what i was suggesting.
Your money & sub & time & fun is YOURS. No one else's. And i certainly didn't mean to "instruct" you or whatever.
I was offering suggestions, that could yield you & others a better result.
I wasn't trying to suggest that You & others have some duty to make "elitists" better. That's their responsibility to do.
But it's also ours to respond/react to such venom in a more productive way, imho.
---And ai companions will let me have fun in a game that I want to have fun in.
I hear ya and heck i might even have some fun with ai comps too. All i'm trying to articulate is: ai will never be able to supercede (nor suppress) HUMAN interactions & depth. At least, not for me.Edited by NeeScrolls on April 2, 2021 9:40PM0 -
Goregrinder✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SilverBride wrote: »I'd think the elitists would be happy about this. Then they don't have to deal with the rest of us any more.
Well color me an elitist, because I am happy about this. I can run a dungeon as fast as I want and not have to wait around babysitting newbies, or carry the group's DPS. I'll still be carrying the group's DPS with companions, but at least they will go at the same pace as me, whether it's fast or slow.0 -
Jacozilla✭✭✭✭✭
How are they gatekeepers if all they do is prevent you from being in their groups? Genuinely curious.
First off it isn't "their" group the pug belongs to everyone that queued for it.
If you are saying because you can’t complete that content without those same elitists, then yes they are gatekeepers but you would also be saying you can’t do that content without those same elitists (e.g. need their carry)
If you say no, don’t need those elitists in your group to complete any given content, then they are by definition not gatekeepers.
Pick which one, can’t have it both ways.
sigh...I think it's useless argue about stuff we can't change.
It's sorta like folks are complaining about so called "bad people" in their pugs, but also they are getting their noses bent out of shape because the developer is effectively removing that nuisance from said pugs.
I mean it's not like elitist players are complaining about casuals getting companions just because they love to berate and insult people online...
Right?
Well certainly agree it’s useless to argue over subjective opinions, because they are just that - opinions.
But things with quantifiable and qualified definitions literally in the wording (gate and keeper, gatekeeper) is lot easier to prove or disprove with facts.
A gatekeeper holds anyone from passing beyond that point, that gate. That is what calling these elitists means.
If people want to call them toxic or entitled or whatever, fine. Subjective opinion and is easily the same in reverse - personally I’d stop and wait for anyone that asked, but if it is elitist and toxic to not wait and rush past quest reading as an example, why isn’t it the same entitlement to expect everyone to wait?
So that is useless to argue over, and I certainly don’t. But ppl who make the accusation that some group of players are somehow gatekeepers can be argued simply with the question of a) can you achieve that content without those players you detest?
If true, then they are not gatekeepers, complain about some other aspect.
If false, then they indeed are gatekeepers but you are essentially asking for a carry, except not really asking but demanding and then complaining when the answer is no.0 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NeeScrolls wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »Pugs aren't their groups, but they dictate that, too.
Only if you let them.
Really? And how do you stop them? Leave the group and wait out a penalty?SilverBride wrote: »They berate other members of the group and kick them if they don't meet their standardsNeeScrolls wrote: »So just /add-ignore them and move on.
Why should anyone have to wait out a penalty because some jerk didn't think they were good enough to run a PUG with them?NeeScrolls wrote: »Find a GUILD of more like-minded individuals. Easier said than done of course, but still a very realistic solution.
That is what they should be doing. But I honestly think a lot of these players enjoy looking down on others and flexing their egos.
But they will have to turn on each other now, because players have had enough of the toxic egotistical bullying and have another option now.PCNA1 -
RedMuse✭✭✭✭✭
✭Agenericname wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »Agenericname wrote: »...they're not gatekeepers. They can't stop anyone from attempting or completing ANY content in this game, only in their groups.
Pugs aren't their groups, but they dictate that, too. They berate other members of the group and kick them if they don't meet their standards. This should never happen in a pug.Agenericname wrote: »You're free to make your own and run however you'd like.
So are they, and that is exactly what they should be doing if they have such high standards.
Berating people shouldn't happen in PUG or in private groups.
Like I said, they can't actually stop you from doing anything. The dungeon finder isn't and never has been a guarantee for success. It doesn't entitle you, or me, to someone else's time. That's never been a promise that ZOS could make and I've never seen them attempt to make it. They provide an opportunity, that's all. PUGs are in essence a direct democracy. If you get kicked from a PUG it's because 3 other people agreed. At that point it's 75% of the group. I'd argue that they have a greater stake, and effectively their group.
If companions allow people to avoid this, then I'm for it. I wouldn't deny that it happens, only that it presents a real barrier. I don't think that I'll ever use them, although extra inventory does sound kinda nice if they go that route.
Incorrect. They can for example prevent me from completing a dungeon quest by rushing ahead, killing stuff before my quest progress, essentially locking it up and I'd need at least one more run to complete it. Assuming the same thing doesn't happen there.
Now I don't need to worry about rushers. Even if guildies don't have time I can just call up a companion and "two man" it.
And PUGs via the dungeon finder is often a dictatorship by default, run by nepotism, when people queue up in pairs or groups of three.2 -
Castagere✭✭✭✭✭Let me let y'all in on a little secret:
This companion system ESO is going for was "stolen" directly from EA's and BioWare's SWTOR, a Star Wars themed MMO.
And the reason I know this is because I am currently taking a break from ESO to play SWTOR, and the way Zeni's dev team describes the companion system they're trying to build sounds exactly like SWTOR's companion system.
Now whether ESO is actually stealing SWTOR's ideas for a companion system or not, I can attest that SWTOR, while a great idea for a Star Wars themed MMO in theory, is suffering from bad mismanagement by EA. I imagine that if ESO's new companion system is in fact an idea taken from SWTOR, they're essentially saying to SWTOR's players "Guys, you and I both know SWTOR is suffering from bad mismanagement, here's a game which you might actually enjoy."
If in fact Zeni stole the idea from SWTOR, this is exactly what I and several others warned about in regards to ESO developing its own deal rather than trying to steal and copy ideas from other games. ESO is NOT going to take the King of MMO Mountain title from World of Warcraft by copying ideas from other games. ESO needs to develop its own deal if it wants to outlast World of Warcraft. The more unique ESO becomes in the MMORPG world, the more likely it is WoW refugees will rush over here and stay here the next time Blizzard angers their players (which apparently is happening on a regular basis in recent years).
I don't think it's like swtor. It sounds like you have to gear them up and they start at level one. In swtor you just pick if you want them to Tank Heal or DPS. And they start at the same level as you. I was hoping it would be like swtor.0 -
Goregrinder✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Let me let y'all in on a little secret:
This companion system ESO is going for was "stolen" directly from EA's and BioWare's SWTOR, a Star Wars themed MMO.
And the reason I know this is because I am currently taking a break from ESO to play SWTOR, and the way Zeni's dev team describes the companion system they're trying to build sounds exactly like SWTOR's companion system.
Now whether ESO is actually stealing SWTOR's ideas for a companion system or not, I can attest that SWTOR, while a great idea for a Star Wars themed MMO in theory, is suffering from bad mismanagement by EA. I imagine that if ESO's new companion system is in fact an idea taken from SWTOR, they're essentially saying to SWTOR's players "Guys, you and I both know SWTOR is suffering from bad mismanagement, here's a game which you might actually enjoy."
If in fact Zeni stole the idea from SWTOR, this is exactly what I and several others warned about in regards to ESO developing its own deal rather than trying to steal and copy ideas from other games. ESO is NOT going to take the King of MMO Mountain title from World of Warcraft by copying ideas from other games. ESO needs to develop its own deal if it wants to outlast World of Warcraft. The more unique ESO becomes in the MMORPG world, the more likely it is WoW refugees will rush over here and stay here the next time Blizzard angers their players (which apparently is happening on a regular basis in recent years).
I don't think it's like swtor. It sounds like you have to gear them up and they start at level one. In swtor you just pick if you want them to Tank Heal or DPS. And they start at the same level as you. I was hoping it would be like swtor.
Or Boffs from STO.1 -
NeeScrolls✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »
Why should anyone have to wait out a penalty because some jerk didn't think they were good enough to run a PUG with them?
What's your alternative? A server for the "bad" rude people and a server for the "good" nice people?
At some point, if enough of the good people react differently, the bad people start to realize their typical internet bullying methods don't work anymore. And they become ALONE, without any groups or guilds or friends.
So, they then have a choice to make: Wise up and start treating fellow players with respect. Or, ramble on to themselves in zone-chat, when nearly everyone has add-ignored them.
Use the tools in-game that Zeminax has provided, that's all i'm saying.
I don't mean to diminish your very legitimate feelings.
---SilverBride wrote: »But I honestly think a lot of these players enjoy looking down on others and flexing their egos.
Exactly, so don't give them what they want.
They are WEAK, hence why they lash out.
YOU are strong, hence why you stand-up.
Keep that in mind and their effect on you in a video-game will cease to exist.
---SilverBride wrote: »But they will have to turn on each other now, because players have had enough of the toxic egotistical bullying and have another option now.
I hear ya and i def. empathize with your obvious passion on this topic , but i just personally don't believe gravatating toward inhuman ai's will be the solution.
Temporary fun it'll provide, sure. But ultimately, players need players in a MMO.
---
Let's see: Twilight, either clannfear or the unstable familiar, non-combat pet, companion. Plus the player. I'll be a whole small adventuring group, all by myself
Sounds cool, albeit lonely & laggy, but in certain situations i agree. (Like when the 'queue' isn't popping and you're pressed for time or whatever) .
But if Zenimax implements a system whereby ai companions can do GROUP content (like 'Trials' ) just as well as human groups, we're gonna have a problem imo.
Time will tell soon in June.
Edited by NeeScrolls on April 2, 2021 10:19PM0 -
Jacozilla✭✭✭✭✭Agenericname wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »Agenericname wrote: »...they're not gatekeepers. They can't stop anyone from attempting or completing ANY content in this game, only in their groups.
Pugs aren't their groups, but they dictate that, too. They berate other members of the group and kick them if they don't meet their standards. This should never happen in a pug.Agenericname wrote: »You're free to make your own and run however you'd like.
So are they, and that is exactly what they should be doing if they have such high standards.
Berating people shouldn't happen in PUG or in private groups.
Like I said, they can't actually stop you from doing anything. The dungeon finder isn't and never has been a guarantee for success. It doesn't entitle you, or me, to someone else's time. That's never been a promise that ZOS could make and I've never seen them attempt to make it. They provide an opportunity, that's all. PUGs are in essence a direct democracy. If you get kicked from a PUG it's because 3 other people agreed. At that point it's 75% of the group. I'd argue that they have a greater stake, and effectively their group.
If companions allow people to avoid this, then I'm for it. I wouldn't deny that it happens, only that it presents a real barrier. I don't think that I'll ever use them, although extra inventory does sound kinda nice if they go that route.
Incorrect. They can for example prevent me from completing a dungeon quest by rushing ahead, killing stuff before my quest progress, essentially locking it up and I'd need at least one more run to complete it. Assuming the same thing doesn't happen there.
Now I don't need to worry about rushers. Even if guildies don't have time I can just call up a companion and "two man" it.
And PUGs via the dungeon finder is often a dictatorship by default, run by nepotism, when people queue up in pairs or groups of three.
But if you use that logic, same can be applied in reverse to you. It would be true rushers prevent you in some things, true - like some dungeon quests aspects (reading fully or even a few miss the quest - although most are simple completion credit).
But you are also expecting a pug to cater to your specific wish, e.g slower.
Personally, if anyone asked nicely, I would always wait. But if someone expected me as some sort of holy entitlement and if refused gain the ‘toxic’ or ‘elitist’ badge, then so be it.
It is just as much courtesy to wait and not rush when asked as it is to understand when ppl go slower than they need to.
Entitled attitudes go both ways - a slow random in a pug is just as much preventing some goals as the rushers making the quest person skip reading dialogue. Hence why a pug is just that, the only commonality is the assumed group goal of completing the dungeon, nothing else.
Courtesy though IMO should be extended by all sides. But it has to be asked and done politely. If you demand I cater to your wish, then even if I prefer not to rush, I certainly will just for your specific case,2 -
KalyanLazair✭✭✭✭I honestly don't understand why some of you are so much against having multiple gameplay options. I don't think companions will kill the game, but it will make things so much more relaxing for those of us that want to take our time to just do the quest, at our own pace. That doesn't mean we will suddenly go into hermit mode and stop playing with people because dungeons are much more than just doing the quest. Talking from my own experience, everytime I've been to a group dungeon with my friends I've ended up just rushing through the quest because I didn't want to be a burden to the group. I know they would have waited patiently, but I did not feel good with making them wait, so I would just click E very quickly and move on. By the end of the dungeon I didn't even know what in Oblivion was going on anymore, it was just a bunch of random mobs that held no meaning for me. If you changed all the bosses from Crypt of Hearts with minotaurs and rabid wolves, it would be as equally meaningful. The thing is that, through the few glimpses I did catch from the dungeon's story, many of them are actually pretty interesting.
I will not stop doing group content with my friends because I like that too, but it does give me a whole new way to enjoy a part of the game at my own pace. Also, I've been soloing dungeons for that very reason, so I could enjoy the story without being a burden to anyone. This is basically the same thing I was already doing, only it will make it less straining for me.
That said, there are some people out there who are hardcore solo gamers and want nothing to do with anyone. Many of those very likely never or rarely joined a group. So if they never joined a group in seven years, it's not like we're missing anything because they were not interested in playing with us anyways. There are many of us, some who like high end game content. Some who are more casual. Some who like questing. Some who like PvP. I think there is enough space for all of us to play.
For the record, I think that what really killed the dungeon finder are other players. I rarely use it at all, since I've got my guildies to play with. We know each other, we work well together. We're patient with each other's mistakes and flaws. The last thing I want to deal with when I'm trying to relax after work is with some dudes in a hurry ruining my delving experience. I used to be a noob just like everyone else, and my first three dungeons were so awful I spent a year not wanting to engage in any group content. I was experimenting with what the game had to offer, and I ended up in the receiving end of insults because I wasn't good (which was true, I had no clue what in Oblivion I was doing, my dps was trash and my armor was... lets just not talk about that, lol). I've gotten over that since then, I've joined trials with people I didn't know and my confidence in my skills has gone up. However, I don't think it is very noob friendly, a guild is way better if you really want to enjoy group content. So, if we're going to complain about something killing group engagement, maybe it is not some NPCs the ones pushing people away from the dungeon finder.1
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