Which Class is most in need of a rework and why?

echo2omega

No reworks needed/Every class is balanced/Other (Please Explain)

Looks like a massive case of the class is always greener on the other side.

Firstmep

Templar

echo2omega wrote: »

Looks like a massive case of the class is always greener on the other side.

Not necesseraly.

It's not like the game has perfect balance.
And when it comes to actual rework, some classes have skills and passives, that really haven't been updated even since before soft and hard caps were removed..
Even the devs admitted that warden and necro were created with all 3 main pve role and pvp in mind as opposed to the original classes, which weren't.
A couple years back we even got a promise that they would update base game classes, and I think for some of them it has been slowly happening, nightblade at least on stamina side had received a lotof changes over the years to allow them to dish out good dmg regardless of the meta.

Gythral

Dragonknight

Clearly
Server Hamster

as it cant do anything in a timely fashion

Faded

Templar

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

I absolutely can't speak for any of the base classes and I'm sure they need help. What i do know is that warden is in a bad long term position. Does it need to be done before other classes? I dunno. We could try to do something similar to dragonhold and focus on class identities for a patch in the future. I don't think any class should be left out.

I want to keep this as short as possible because I've been talking about this for a couple of years and I'm kind of tired of repeating myself so I'll try to keep it shorter

Warden relies on raw damage passives in order to achieve success as opposed to class skills. This is because our class damage skills are quite lacking, literally. Out of all of the classes in the game. Warden has the least amount of actually viable normal class damage skills that don't have some kind of condition that prevents them from being useful in most scenarios. (This category includes crystallised slab, arctic wind and frozen device.) This leaves us with Dive, Swarm, Winter's Revenge and Scorch as the only skills.

Out of these skills dive is only good in pve where basically maximum damage output is the most important thing. It's effects and drawbacks mean that it isn't used a lot of the time. It used to be apart of a magden combo when it was slower and more of a delayed damage skill. During summerset, zos made it faster, but not fast enough to be a great spammable in pvp leaving it in a limbo of being a spammable and delayed damage skill.

Winter's Revenge is very hard to use in PvP effectively. Like all class ground AoE DoTs.

Swarm is one of the 2 actual class damage skills we use. It's a generic ranged ST DoT that applies minor vulnerability and does good damage. It's alright but it's not anything to write home about.

Scorch is the entire damage identity of our class. It's class defining and there isn't too much wrong with it other than magicka warden's damage type being magic instead of frost. But It's very strong.

This is but one problem. We just don't have an identity other than shalks. Because both damage subclasses use all of the 4 skills the only thing that seperates them at that point is weapons. And we all know that stamina has access to great weapon skills and a better scaling dawnbreaker. And this consistently shows. What magicka warden needs in this regard is another damage skill that fits into a slightly different playstyle than stamina warden.

It's nice to see magdens having a good stretch, but yeah: they're brittle*. The "new" class design might be great on paper but has glaring flaws. Trying to impose it on the four original classes has not improved our lives. More universal tanking and healing skills would be much better than magicka DDs trying to fill in stripped-down kit and make up for destro staff's mediocrity with universal damage skills and proc sets.

PVP POV.

* Pun intended. Come at me.

techyeshic

Necromancer

echo2omega wrote: »

Looks like a massive case of the class is always greener on the other side.

I voted necro and I main a templar. Lord knows my own class has been dumbed down at very least, but I realize how bad some classes designs are. Not OP vs UP. Just...like.. boring and don't mesh. Lacking flavor or key signature abilities

ESO_Nightingale

Warden

techyeshic wrote: »

echo2omega wrote: »

Looks like a massive case of the class is always greener on the other side.

I voted necro and I main a templar. Lord knows my own class has been dumbed down at very least, but I realize how bad some classes designs are. Not OP vs UP. Just...like.. boring and don't mesh. Lacking flavor or key signature abilities

Yes. The new classes have a genuinely awful damage identity, but good power and potent defensive potential. That should be rectified.

StarOfElyon

Templar

kojou wrote: »

Sorcerer Playstyle is really boring to me and could use some work, but I seem to be in the minority...

Stamina Templar could also use some balancing.

Play a hybrid sorc like me xD

Túrin_Vidsmidr

Templar

The One Skill Class: Templar.

Athan1

Templar

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

On the other hand, Templar has virtually no class identity past "bright light", no coherent theme to tie its skills together, and aside from Jabs and Focus, which carry the class hard, no skills that stand out as worthy of mention. When you look at a Necro and see them raise the dead, or pummel foes into submission with Colossus, or turn themselves into a horrifying abomination, you get a good idea of what the class is like. When you look at a Warden and see them summon animals to aid them against their foes, or call upon the power of nature to restore their allies, or summon the freezing winds of winter, you get a good idea of what they do. When you see a Templar stab with light, or shield with light, or throw light in the form of a spear, or just light in the form of light, or a light DOT, or another DOT made of light, you have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA what theme ZOS was trying to achieve with the class, because it's just a bunch of yellow on your screen. Templar should have been something more akin to a paladin, a holy crusader of vengeance laying Divine judgment upon their foes, but instead it's just some homeless dude with a flashlight. No offense, but it really seems as though Templar was just an afterthought.

While I fully agree with the distinction between class rework and buff, I find this paragraph self-contradictory. As you point out, Templar's theme is literally holy "bright light", it's the unifying theme that pours into all 3 skill lines. In fact, Templar and NB are the thematically most coherent classes in the game. Light is literally the Templar's weapon, and that's part of what makes the class great. People may like this theme or find it dull, but the class has a clear thematic identity.

The majority of players answering the poll refer to how poorly the Templar's skills are balanced, and how they don't mix well from a gameplay point of view. As pointed out, the class is carried by one skill, and other skills and passives need to be rebalanced to not be complete trash.

Starlight_Knight

Warden

Warden because their identity is in a crisis.. a morrowind pet theamed ice mage; only you cant actually play an ice mage becuase ice staves are for tanks...

Butchered burst potential when they increased the speed of cliff racer.
also, imagine being a woodelf that summons cliff racers lol.

imho the warden was a gimmic to get people to buy the morrowind dlc and has struggled to find its place ever since.

ESO_Nightingale

Warden

Starlight_Knight wrote: »

Warden because their identity is in a crisis.. a morrowind pet theamed ice mage; only you cant actually play an ice mage becuase ice staves are for tanks...

Butchered burst potential when they increased the speed of cliff racer.
also, imagine being a woodelf that summons cliff racers lol.

imho the warden was a gimmic to get people to buy the morrowind dlc and has struggled to find its place ever since.

Warden seriously needs work. It needs a power redistribution

Brrrofski

DKs, Templars and Sorc need their passives looked at. Nightblade's are pretty good, but the two paid for classes have insane passives. The other three are far behind.

It'd be nice for all classes to have a proper class spammable too. Stam specs of DK, Necro, Warden and Stam sorc are all pigeonholed into 2h for pvp. None of their spammables are that great. Mag sorc is stuck with a destro too.

I feel like mag DK, mag warden and mag necro really lack kill closing power without procs, which I think is an issue.

Mag NB's burst is too obvious and too slow. Yeh, a lot of classes have predictable burst, but you aren't killing anything with a (non gank) magblade without merciless. If someone blocks or dodges, it takes a while to create another burst window.

Hotdog_23

Honestly 3 of the original 4 need looked at. All except sorcerer need some fine tuning and passives looked at.

Stay safe and enjoy the journey 😊

PS. ZOS stop the micromanagement of the green tree 🥺

Firstmep

Templar

Brrrofski wrote: »

DKs, Templars and Sorc need their passives looked at. Nightblade's are pretty good, but the two paid for classes have insane passives. The other three are far behind.

It'd be nice for all classes to have a proper class spammable too. Stam specs of DK, Necro, Warden and Stam sorc are all pigeonholed into 2h for pvp. None of their spammables are that great. Mag sorc is stuck with a destro too.

I feel like mag DK, mag warden and mag necro really lack kill closing power without procs, which I think is an issue.

Mag NB's burst is too obvious and too slow. Yeh, a lot of classes have predictable burst, but you aren't killing anything with a (non gank) magblade without merciless. If someone blocks or dodges, it takes a while to create another burst window.

Crystal weapon is a pretty good spammable actually, and it doubled down as a burst skill also.
I'd rather them look at bound armaments instead, I think rather than building stacks with light attacks, you should summon the 4 daggers upfront and each light/heavy attack would consume one and launch a dagger at your target.
Suddenly it wouldn't be a carbon copy of spectral bow, it would give Stam sorcs some sustained damage, and you wouldn't have to use 2 GCDs just to do damage with this ability.

Vilixiti

Dragonknight

magDK lacks burst, mobility, gap closer and SUSTAIN. Especially in PvP, being a DoT class and having them purged constantly is rough.

It would be nice if we had a perk for a bit of purge resistance or something..

Faded

Templar

Vilixiti wrote: »

magDK lacks burst, mobility, gap closer and SUSTAIN. Especially in PvP, being a DoT class and having them purged constantly is rough.

It would be nice if we had a perk for a bit of purge resistance or something..

Maybe a potion effect that prevents people within 20 meters from purging for the duration.

the1andonlyskwex

Nightblade

Faded wrote: »

Vilixiti wrote: »

magDK lacks burst, mobility, gap closer and SUSTAIN. Especially in PvP, being a DoT class and having them purged constantly is rough.

It would be nice if we had a perk for a bit of purge resistance or something..

Maybe a potion effect that prevents people within 20 meters from purging for the duration.

I think something similar to Inevitable Detonation would be better. Just pick a DK DoT and add "if this effect is dispelled or removed early, all remaining damage is dealt immediately". That would help DK's lack of burst and excessive purging in larger group PvP all with one simple change.

Heck, it doesn't even need to be a DK DoT. It could be something like a Soul Trap morph, or an improved Inevitable Detonation (e.g. no cast time and double damage when purged), and the desired effect of discouraging people from constantly purging DoTs would be achieved.

linuxlady

Nightblade

nightblade and templar cover more than half the responses. dragon night seems pretty tough from a dd perspective and its still the defacto tank unlike templar which was replaced by necro for healing and nightbladse which was ousted by vampire skill line. At this point a vampire nightblade is just redundant

linuxlady

Nightblade

Rex-Umbra wrote: »

Nightblade is so gimp at Tanking and Healing and half the DPS abilities are just not fun to use.

i like nightbalde healer still but i couldnt think of trying to tank with those skills. healing path is the precurser to orbs, it's just not as visual so people dont see it as much

Stokowski

Nightblade.

Also Sorcerer. Well ... that's a stretch but if sorcerer isn't mentioned enough in this thread it'll get nerfed.

Wing

Dragonknight

the reason i voted DK, because i main them but would gladly switch given a class change token.

is that its unique features are gone, classes should have at least 2-3 skills that define them slightly as well as make anyone on another class go "oh thats really cool i want to play that!"

NB has things like its switch teleport and claok
Sorc has things like streak and huricane

Warden actually has alot of uniqueness in most of its skills and passives, same with necro from a systemic point of view, they will simply play differently due to inherent design within the classes.

this is to be expected as those classes came later and had to be shiny to encourage sales.

templar is in a similar boat to DK in that it does not have many shiny skills that are flashy and make others want to play it, the difference is that its skills are rock solid and plain just strong, it has the best heals in the game, it has the best cleanses in the game, it has the best class spamable in the game, and with just two of its very first 3 skills, bol, and jabs, you can go through most content in the game without any issue.

for those reasons i ALWAYS recommend templar to new players, jabs, heal, and go.

DK not only had its signature skills gutted (wings) ages ago, it was never given anything to compensate, same with its sustain, same with its damage. there was a time pre 1.5 when DK was the strongest class in the game due too dynamic ult gen and its passive to restore resources on ult use.

there were DK pvp builds that would not even have damage skills slotted, they were vampires that would just pop bats and wade through people.

everything about that particular style is gone. dynamic ult gen is gone, bats are gone, the resource restore on ults is gutted, etc.

DK has no:
cleanse
solid heal
mobility
spamable
sustain
streak
cloak
execute
signature skills
etc.

no class has to deal with all of this at once other then DK, some dont have to deal with any of it.

ESO_Nightingale

Warden

Wing wrote: »

Warden actually has alot of uniqueness in most of its skills and passives, same with necro from a systemic point of view, they will simply play differently due to inherent design within the classes.

this is to be expected as those classes came later and had to be shiny to encourage sales.

When it comes to warden, i politely disagree. Specifically when it comes to damage dealing, our skills are few and far between as we have the least amount of damage skills out of all of the classes. Scorch is the only truely unique damage skill we have and it's our class defining skill. Most of our effectiveness comes from having a bunch of raw damage passive effects. You can make an arguement to say that some of warden's healing skills and tanking skills are unique. But our damage skills have long way to go.

linuxlady

Nightblade

Wing wrote: »

the reason i voted DK, because i main them but would gladly switch given a class change token.

is that its unique features are gone, classes should have at least 2-3 skills that define them slightly as well as make anyone on another class go "oh thats really cool i want to play that!"

NB has things like its switch teleport and claok
Sorc has things like streak and huricane

Warden actually has alot of uniqueness in most of its skills and passives, same with necro from a systemic point of view, they will simply play differently due to inherent design within the classes.

this is to be expected as those classes came later and had to be shiny to encourage sales.

templar is in a similar boat to DK in that it does not have many shiny skills that are flashy and make others want to play it, the difference is that its skills are rock solid and plain just strong, it has the best heals in the game, it has the best cleanses in the game, it has the best class spamable in the game, and with just two of its very first 3 skills, bol, and jabs, you can go through most content in the game without any issue.

for those reasons i ALWAYS recommend templar to new players, jabs, heal, and go.

DK not only had its signature skills gutted (wings) ages ago, it was never given anything to compensate, same with its sustain, same with its damage. there was a time pre 1.5 when DK was the strongest class in the game due too dynamic ult gen and its passive to restore resources on ult use.

there were DK pvp builds that would not even have damage skills slotted, they were vampires that would just pop bats and wade through people.

everything about that particular style is gone. dynamic ult gen is gone, bats are gone, the resource restore on ults is gutted, etc.

DK has no:
cleanse
solid heal
mobility
spamable
sustain
streak
cloak
execute
signature skills
etc.

no class has to deal with all of this at once other then DK, some dont have to deal with any of it.

I have a dk dd vamp and it has solid heals. Stonefish filled up health very well. Dw has two self heals that trigger earth gore as well. I think you are way off base

Starlight_Whisper

Sorcerer

Power surge

Wing

Dragonknight

linuxlady wrote: »

I have a dk dd vamp and it has solid heals. Stonefish filled up health very well. Dw has two self heals that trigger earth gore as well. I think you are way off base

you have named skills and sets that are not unique to DK in any way shape or form.

and thats the problem

TheUndeadAmulet

Nightblade

If it came down to which classes need buffs, I would definitely opt for DK and Nightblade.

DK has been nearly awful at everything except being fat since the patch which standardized (and nerfed) DOTS, and even then DK's still struggle.

Nightblades have issues depending on which aspect of the game you're talking about. Magblades are great in PvE, but are godawful in PvP. Stamblades are good in PvP, and mediocre in PvE.

But in terms of which class needs a total overhaul... That would have to go to templars.
PvE rotation for stamplars has degenerated to "Get as many jabs in as possible while maintaining uptime on buffs" whereas Magplar DPS is outclassed easily in range and melee. Healers are pretty meh, Templar tanks don't exist.
PvP is also pretty bad. Magplars suck in melee and suck in range. Stamplars can do a lot of damage with jabs spam but lag can make jabs miss people that are clearly in front of you, while not having a delayed burst makes killing experienced players nigh impossible.

What even is their identity???

• Sorcs are fast and maneuverable burst machines.
• Nightblades are elusive gankers.
• Dragonknight's are tanky brawlers that (are supposed to) wear you down with dots and CC pressure before bursting you
• Warden's and Necro's are kinda iffy but both kinda fall under durable with high burst potential but little pressure.
• Templars do... what? Spam jabs and die? Sit in a house? Seems like ZOS forgot what they want templars to do...

itscompton

Templar

Jeremy wrote: »

Sangwyne wrote: »

Power Creep is an unfortunate reality in the gaming industry for many reasons: bringing in newer players and sources of revenue, overturning a stagnant meta, and giving a reason for older veterans to continue grinding for the absolute best new gear or to come back to the series. ESO however was meant to follow a horizontal progression, where sets and classes are equally balanced and newer ones merely open up more options and diversify the range of experiences in-game rather than render old content obsolete. Over time, though, it feels as though ZOS has drifted away from the same standards to which they held the base 4 classes, and allowed for newer options that would not have been considered balanced according to their original design philosophy. With the removal of proc sets in Cyrodiil highlighting the gap between certain classes for all to see, it's long past time to consider giving some much-needed attention to the older elements of the game, including standardizing or reworking older skills and even classes. With that in mind, which class, if any, would you most agree needs work or requires changes? I realize that many people will simply vote for their main, but by rework I don't simply mean "buff"; it could be as simple as bringing certain skills up to par with those of other classes or as drastic as changing the nature of the skills entirely. Along with your choice of class, feel free to include why you picked that option and what changes to it you would most like to see.

Templar. The class has turned into a one trick pony at this point with everything revolving around that silly jabs move. If there is a way to be an effective Templar in PvP aside from building around that one move then I don't know it. Every other strategy has pretty much been eviscerated by the developers.

I can't even play it as my no damage, high health recovery, low magic cost, vampire mist CC troll tank anymore just because no skill idiots abused the Vash staff/Zaan combo.

jssriot

Nightblade

Nightblade. It doesn't matter how good the class skills and passives look on paper if it you can't put it all together into a build that's both effective and comfortable play. With any other class, I can work around their class shortcomings and make something comfortable and fun to play, but if it weren't for weapon skills, NBs would be completely unplayable.