Which Class is most in need of a rework and why?

Uvi_AUT

Dragonknight

When pretty much every Streamer, Youtuber, Contentcreator and Guideauthor starts their lists and such with "You can play pretty much anything, but its harder with a Dragonknight", then there really isnt much else to say.

Seriously, when was Dragonknight last best at anything?

Competitive thank the gods is every class in this game, ZOS actually didnt screw up the balance too bad.

Andre_Noir

Warden

Warden as the most boosted class in the game following by necro where is stamina is out of control and magica is something clunky.
I don't have any hopes on better life for nightblades (except stamina but that is STAMINA life not the class) since for a long time I didn't even spent skillpoints on some skills due to their uselessness

Sangwyne

Dragonknight

Uvi_AUT wrote: »

When pretty much every Streamer, Youtuber, Contentcreator and Guideauthor starts their lists and such with "You can play pretty much anything, but its harder with a Dragonknight", then there really isnt much else to say.

Seriously, when was Dragonknight last best at anything?

Competitive thank the gods is every class in this game, ZOS actually didnt screw up the balance too bad.

Yeah, I'm a little disappointed, but not particularly surprised, that the poll seems to have turned into little more than a popularity contest; by "rework" I actually meant a rework, and not just a buff to everyone's favorite choice of class to main. I think Nightblades certainly need some love with regards to their Cloak, as it's been nerfed and re-nerfed and finally just straight-up gutted to the point where it's merely a hollow shell of the ability it used to be. With that said, I don't think the class as a whole requires a rework, given that they make quite solid tanks in places like Sunspire with their %HP boost from slotting Shadow skills, Major Evasion and Minor Resolve from Mirage, and %HP HOT on Dark Cloak, adequate healers with their untyped %Healing Done bonus from Soul Siphoner, and decent DPS; they were topping the damage charts not too long ago, and I don't believe they've ever hit the bottom. On the other hand, DK is literally the worst healer in the game, with a whopping 2.5 seconds of Major Mending (gee thanks) and nothing else for healers, on top of the worst sustain, on top of Stam DK having nonexistent DPS. I don't even think DK is the best tank anymore, as their heals are pretty awful and other classes feel much sturdier in practice; I feel like it is only brought because it sucks so badly at the other roles and trials need at least one DK for the group buffs it provides. Templar certainly needs to be addressed as well, because as it stands now, the class is essentially only two skills, Jabs and Focus, with a bunch of other random, boring, Light-themed abilities thrown in. Templar right now is BIS literally only as a means to farm Soul gems in PUG dungeons.

Ryuvain

Sorcerer

Sorc may be a good class but it's super boring. What happened to Crystal blast? Regen twilight? Clanfear cc? Not to mention pets being untargetable in dungeons.

I'm currently playing my nightblade and necro every day instead of my starter class. I also blame no class change being made.

Most are just voting for their own class to be buffed though. Id want a rework to gameplay so it isnt just 90% all skills that just simply are different ways to do basic damage.

Lightning splash: aoe damage, no cc or mechanics. Morphs to either do more damage or longer duration of damage. Synergy? Does damage.

Sanguinor2

Templar

Templar abilities that definitely need changes:
Purifying light: Needs a complete rework imo. As it is now its hardly worth using in PvP and returning it to its old state isnt a good solution either since a healer with high max mag putting it on you and his allies damaging you so it hit for its full tooltip was pretty stupid. Did I also mention that compared to other delayed burst skills its the only one that isnt fire and forget, deals far less damage and takes twice as long to go off?
Radiant Aura: Now that any magic damage can apply minor mag steal having an ability that only applies minor mag steal seems like a complete waste of space. Why would I use a gcd to apply minor mag steal and nothing else when jabs can also apply it?
Mag morph of Javelin: What was the reason for a mag class with a melee spammable to get a cc that removes people from melee range again?
Healing ritual: Cant remember the last time I ever saw this ability on a player that actually knows what he is doing. Could easily be reworked to a stam heal or a tank heal or both as morphs.
Sun shield: Its sun shield. That should be enough to show why it is a complete garbage ability that needs a rework.

Templar passives that need work:
Prism and Illuminate: Have you ever noticed that templar needs 2 passives to get the benefits dks for example get from 1?
Balanced Warrior: Maybe after 7 years its time to give it both weapon and spell damage and physical+spell resistance?
Enduring rays: Did I mention that I really dislike passives that do nothing but increase ability duration? Comparing it to searing heat is also downright depressing.
Master Ritualist: Just why?

Rudrani

Templar

Templar is lame at everything.
They should at least be the defacto OP healer, to keep with the holy/righteous/wholesome theme.

Firstmep

Templar

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Templar abilities that definitely need changes:
Purifying light: Needs a complete rework imo. As it is now its hardly worth using in PvP and returning it to its old state isnt a good solution either since a healer with high max mag putting it on you and his allies damaging you so it hit for its full tooltip was pretty stupid. Did I also mention that compared to other delayed burst skills its the only one that isnt fire and forget, deals far less damage and takes twice as long to go off?
Radiant Aura: Now that any magic damage can apply minor mag steal having an ability that only applies minor mag steal seems like a complete waste of space. Why would I use a gcd to apply minor mag steal and nothing else when jabs can also apply it?
Mag morph of Javelin: What was the reason for a mag class with a melee spammable to get a cc that removes people from melee range again?
Healing ritual: Cant remember the last time I ever saw this ability on a player that actually knows what he is doing. Could easily be reworked to a stam heal or a tank heal or both as morphs.
Sun shield: Its sun shield. That should be enough to show why it is a complete garbage ability that needs a rework.

Templar passives that need work:
Prism and Illuminate: Have you ever noticed that templar needs 2 passives to get the benefits dks for example get from 1?
Balanced Warrior: Maybe after 7 years its time to give it both weapon and spell damage and physical+spell resistance?
Enduring rays: Did I mention that I really dislike passives that do nothing but increase ability duration? Comparing it to searing heat is also downright depressing.
Master Ritualist: Just why?

We also have a ranged spammable, for melee you can use toppling charge, which also doubles down as a gap closer.
Aurora javelin is actually one of the best offensive skills in the templars toolkit, at least for ranged.

ValueDrift

Templar

I think Burning Light passive is the main reason that forces templars into jab spam, replacing it with something that distributes that power across all skills instead of jabs only might go a long way to fixing the class. Also I believe templar is the only class without a health-based heal for tanking?

Yellow_Monolith

Templar

Stamplar specifically. The sweep physical morph that boosts light attack damage is just garbage, it has no burst heal, jabs sometimes doesn't do any damage because of lag, power of the light was gutted hard, if an enemy dies to some status effect like poison, disease, flame, frost or shock repentance doesn't let you get the stamina or health from that body, so your enchants on your weapons are actively punishing you. Half the class passives have no use for a stamplar either.

Grandchamp1989

Templar

Templar please.
It's such a mess for DD and Tank.

Their entire claim to fame is 1 single ability with jabs/sweep.
Take it away and they're reaaally bad.

For tank they're the most lackluster hands down. No proper CC, no health based heal, REALLY bad super small stationary major resolve skill...

Just nope.

Faded

Templar

Sangwyne wrote: »

I'm a little disappointed, but not particularly surprised, that the poll seems to have turned into little more than a popularity contest; by "rework" I actually meant a rework, and not just a buff to everyone's favorite choice of class to main.

When you ask what people think and they actually tell you.

Sangwyne wrote: »

Templar certainly needs to be addressed as well

Oh

Grandchamp1989

Templar

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Melee Vs Ranged: I think too much attention is paid to stam vs. magic, and not nearly enough about ranged vs melee. A ranged class should pull less DPS IMO than a melee class. That said, melee magic classes (primarily Templar and DK) need to be on par with stamina melee classes. Most Raid groups use a M1-M4, R1-R4 semi-circle stack for a lot of fights. Why would I want a Magplar in R1 when I could put a Stamina character there, who is likely going to do more DPS.

What an excellent point. When you're a melee build and you can't do dmg for 20% of a fight due to massive AOE's, break frees and kiting you're at a huge disadvantage vs one who can just do his rotation from any range.

Arrodisia

Templar

The abilities and passives for templars need some love. They were nerfed. Then nerfed again and then finally overnerfed.

Arrodisia

Templar

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Melee Vs Ranged: I think too much attention is paid to stam vs. magic, and not nearly enough about ranged vs melee. A ranged class should pull less DPS IMO than a melee class. That said, melee magic classes (primarily Templar and DK) need to be on par with stamina melee classes. Most Raid groups use a M1-M4, R1-R4 semi-circle stack for a lot of fights. Why would I want a Magplar in R1 when I could put a Stamina character there, who is likely going to do more DPS.

This is a fair point.

Arrodisia

Templar

Jacozilla wrote: »

Not singling out class, but skills.

All crit chance based skills need a look to revise around current much lower cc standards.

Not saying ever crit proc based skill needs adjustment, but at least take a good look and see if adjusting the proc condition is warranted given the multiple cc nerfs we’ve had over last 2-3 updates.

This is a very interesting thought.

starlizard70ub17_ESO

Nightblade

My mains are a MagDK who is my crafter/explorer. And a MagTemplar that I use for undaunted and PvP mostly. After 6 years I'm well aware of the "problems" those two classes have. But you can at least build a character using mostly their skills.

But if you're running a Nightblade, you're stuck mostly using weapons skills, (bow/2haned/dual for stam, desto/resto for magic), and slotting the one of 2 still useful NB skills left. (Not counting the NB Ultimates, those are still pretty good.) Honesty, there are some average guild and world skills that are better then most NB skills. And that's why I voted for Nightblades. They need a complete overhaul to make their skills relevant in the game again.

Firstmep

Templar

starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »

My mains are a MagDK who is my crafter/explorer. And a MagTemplar that I use for undaunted and PvP mostly. After 6 years I'm well aware of the "problems" those two classes have. But you can at least build a character using mostly their skills.

But if you're running a Nightblade, you're stuck mostly using weapons skills, (bow/2haned/dual for stam, desto/resto for magic), and slotting the one of 2 still useful NB skills left. (Not counting the NB Ultimates, those are still pretty good.) Honesty, there are some average guild and world skills that are better then most NB skills. And that's why I voted for Nightblades. They need a complete overhaul to make their skills relevant in the game again.

Sorry but what?
Stamblade has excellent class skills to use:
Suprise attack, incap, cloak, shade, leeching strikes, merciless are all great and most stamblades use them.
Stamblade is in a fantastic spot rn actually.

Magblade needs help for sure, their burst is too predictable, and cloak really could be more reliable aganist things like light attacks and gap closers.

L_Nici

Sorcerer

Well more Stamsorc than Magsorc. Stamsorc really needs some class identity, maybe a class spamable and class execute. Would be great if all the Sorc Skills would get a Stamina and a Magicka morph.

GrimTheReaper45

No reworks needed/Every class is balanced/Other (Please Explain)

Really the four original classes could all use work

necro needs some work regarding skill durations but other than that its fine.

Vevvev

Templar

I want to say Dragonknight as I main one, but I will admit Templars need a bit of a rework. While it is infuriating when they cleanse my DoTs I know deep down they're missing a lot of things and have to rely heavily on that ability and jabs.

Mythreindeer

L_Nici wrote: »

Well more Stamsorc than Magsorc. Stamsorc really needs some class identity, maybe a class spamable and class execute. Would be great if all the Sorc Skills would get a Stamina and a Magicka morph.

I find the Sorc support skills work great with weapon skills for Stamsorcs. I have a bow/bow stamsorc and a 2H stamsorc which are both very fun and capable to play.

GrimTheReaper45

No reworks needed/Every class is balanced/Other (Please Explain)

Mythreindeer wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

Well more Stamsorc than Magsorc. Stamsorc really needs some class identity, maybe a class spamable and class execute. Would be great if all the Sorc Skills would get a Stamina and a Magicka morph.

I find the Sorc support skills work great with weapon skills for Stamsorcs. I have a bow/bow stamsorc and a 2H stamsorc which are both very fun and capable to play.

Dark magic skill line needs work though. Do we really need 3 cc's?

Fennwitty

Templar

I have two characters of every class except just one DK.

Templar skills always seem like they should be awesome but aren't very impressive. My Stamplar depends on weapon abilities, almost no stam morphs available. Magplar has more flexibility but just underwhelming in general.

I'd put DK second after Templar though. Weird mishmash of skills make it hard to do anything but tank.

Zodiarkslayer

No reworks needed/Every class is balanced/Other (Please Explain)

It's not the time.

I would wait until all reworks and all the new changes from U29 have become clearer. And All, please keep in mind, that we will get companions next patch and that will unbalance everything again, most likely.

Athan1

Templar

*cries in Templar tears*

Our class has been hit the most by all the nerfs. For a full history of nerfs see this thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7136069

I honestly do not understand why they slam this class specifically so much. As a Templar I literally feel like the team hates our class and just tries to remove it from the game. Was it the easy access to heals? It literally was (yes, WAS) the healing class... Was it the versatility? This is literally a main vision of the game (and still, we are trash as tanks, so not that versatile really).

Idk why Sorcerers and NBs, even DKs, get love when we get hate by everyone. Players sat around to be hit by Jabs and died? Cries for nerfs. Group cooperation through Purifying Light/PotL? Nerf. Snares? Nerf. Ritual does damage AND heals???? NERF! Just leave us alone already...

Oh well, at least we have a 50% to fill an empty Soul Gem.

Athan1

Templar

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Templar abilities that definitely need changes:
Purifying light: Needs a complete rework imo. As it is now its hardly worth using in PvP and returning it to its old state isnt a good solution either since a healer with high max mag putting it on you and his allies damaging you so it hit for its full tooltip was pretty stupid. Did I also mention that compared to other delayed burst skills its the only one that isnt fire and forget, deals far less damage and takes twice as long to go off?
Radiant Aura: Now that any magic damage can apply minor mag steal having an ability that only applies minor mag steal seems like a complete waste of space. Why would I use a gcd to apply minor mag steal and nothing else when jabs can also apply it?
Mag morph of Javelin: What was the reason for a mag class with a melee spammable to get a cc that removes people from melee range again?
Healing ritual: Cant remember the last time I ever saw this ability on a player that actually knows what he is doing. Could easily be reworked to a stam heal or a tank heal or both as morphs.
Sun shield: Its sun shield. That should be enough to show why it is a complete garbage ability that needs a rework.

Templar passives that need work:
Prism and Illuminate: Have you ever noticed that templar needs 2 passives to get the benefits dks for example get from 1?
Balanced Warrior: Maybe after 7 years its time to give it both weapon and spell damage and physical+spell resistance?
Enduring rays: Did I mention that I really dislike passives that do nothing but increase ability duration? Comparing it to searing heat is also downright depressing.
Master Ritualist: Just why?

Thank you for these points, I fully 100% agree. Especially the passives need a rework.

Jeremy

Templar

Sangwyne wrote: »

Power Creep is an unfortunate reality in the gaming industry for many reasons: bringing in newer players and sources of revenue, overturning a stagnant meta, and giving a reason for older veterans to continue grinding for the absolute best new gear or to come back to the series. ESO however was meant to follow a horizontal progression, where sets and classes are equally balanced and newer ones merely open up more options and diversify the range of experiences in-game rather than render old content obsolete. Over time, though, it feels as though ZOS has drifted away from the same standards to which they held the base 4 classes, and allowed for newer options that would not have been considered balanced according to their original design philosophy. With the removal of proc sets in Cyrodiil highlighting the gap between certain classes for all to see, it's long past time to consider giving some much-needed attention to the older elements of the game, including standardizing or reworking older skills and even classes. With that in mind, which class, if any, would you most agree needs work or requires changes? I realize that many people will simply vote for their main, but by rework I don't simply mean "buff"; it could be as simple as bringing certain skills up to par with those of other classes or as drastic as changing the nature of the skills entirely. Along with your choice of class, feel free to include why you picked that option and what changes to it you would most like to see.

Templar. The class has turned into a one trick pony at this point with everything revolving around that silly jabs move. If there is a way to be an effective Templar in PvP aside from building around that one move then I don't know it. Every other strategy has pretty much been eviscerated by the developers.

Sangwyne

Dragonknight

Faded wrote: »

Sangwyne wrote: »

I'm a little disappointed, but not particularly surprised, that the poll seems to have turned into little more than a popularity contest; by "rework" I actually meant a rework, and not just a buff to everyone's favorite choice of class to main.

When you ask what people think and they actually tell you.

Sangwyne wrote: »

Templar certainly needs to be addressed as well

Oh

Oh, I fully agree Templar needs work. In that post I was referring instead to just how many people had voted Nightblade, despite it being the most popular class in the game and viable for every role. I'll admit that their cloak, along with a few other skills, was nerfed a little too harshly and needs fine-tuning, but adjustments to a couple skills do not constitute a rework. The point of this post wasn't just to ask people which class they most wanted to see buffed; I highly doubt that any Nightblade players would truly want the developers to rework the class entirely if they realized what a rework would actually entail, especially after seeing how ZOS has handled it in the past. Nor do I want to see Nightblade butchered; I think the class is a tad on the weaker side at the moment and could use some help, but I like the overall theme and definitely don't want to see that changed any time soon.

On the other hand, Templar has virtually no class identity past "bright light", no coherent theme to tie its skills together, and aside from Jabs and Focus, which carry the class hard, no skills that stand out as worthy of mention. When you look at a Necro and see them raise the dead, or pummel foes into submission with Colossus, or turn themselves into a horrifying abomination, you get a good idea of what the class is like. When you look at a Warden and see them summon animals to aid them against their foes, or call upon the power of nature to restore their allies, or summon the freezing winds of winter, you get a good idea of what they do. When you see a Templar stab with light, or shield with light, or throw light in the form of a spear, or just light in the form of light, or a light DOT, or another DOT made of light, you have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA what theme ZOS was trying to achieve with the class, because it's just a bunch of yellow on your screen. Templar should have been something more akin to a paladin, a holy crusader of vengeance laying Divine judgment upon their foes, but instead it's just some homeless dude with a flashlight. No offense, but it really seems as though Templar was just an afterthought.

ccfeeling

Nightblade

Skill mechanics change every single patch , I can't remember how many times the dev modify GRIM FOCUS , 10 ? 15 ?

Death Stroke , Soul Shred added cast time , seriously ? It's ultimate !!

Dev , please don't modify the skills base on the crying babies .

I missed NB prime Death Stroke , Agony , Haste , all NB identified skills , one more thing , NB is a PVP focused class , what now ? IDK .

ESO_Nightingale

Warden

I absolutely can't speak for any of the base classes and I'm sure they need help. What i do know is that warden is in a bad long term position. Does it need to be done before other classes? I dunno. We could try to do something similar to dragonhold and focus on class identities for a patch in the future. I don't think any class should be left out.

I want to keep this as short as possible because I've been talking about this for a couple of years and I'm kind of tired of repeating myself so I'll try to keep it shorter

Warden relies on raw damage passives in order to achieve success as opposed to class skills. This is because our class damage skills are quite lacking, literally. Out of all of the classes in the game. Warden has the least amount of actually viable normal class damage skills that don't have some kind of condition that prevents them from being useful in most scenarios. (This category includes crystallised slab, arctic wind and frozen device.) This leaves us with Dive, Swarm, Winter's Revenge and Scorch as the only skills.

Out of these skills dive is only good in pve where basically maximum damage output is the most important thing. It's effects and drawbacks mean that it isn't used a lot of the time. It used to be apart of a magden combo when it was slower and more of a delayed damage skill. During summerset, zos made it faster, but not fast enough to be a great spammable in pvp leaving it in a limbo of being a spammable and delayed damage skill.

Winter's Revenge is very hard to use in PvP effectively. Like all class ground AoE DoTs.

Swarm is one of the 2 actual class damage skills we use. It's a generic ranged ST DoT that applies minor vulnerability and does good damage. It's alright but it's not anything to write home about.

Scorch is the entire damage identity of our class. It's class defining and there isn't too much wrong with it other than magicka warden's damage type being magic instead of frost. But It's very strong.

This is but one problem. We just don't have an identity other than shalks. Because both damage subclasses use all of the 4 skills the only thing that seperates them at that point is weapons. And we all know that stamina has access to great weapon skills and a better scaling dawnbreaker. And this consistently shows. What magicka warden needs in this regard is another damage skill that fits into a slightly different playstyle than stamina warden.

Arctic Blast has been through several iterations already but it really needs to be changed yet again.

Arctic Blast 1.0 had the problem of being a filler skill. No-one used it. But people liked the idea of it and we expressed that we wanted something more from it.

Arctic Blast 2.0 replaced the stun we lost from Deep Fissure. However, It was a slow projectile with an offensive stun that did no damage and had a mediocre heal on it. We needed a damage skill. Not that.

Arctic Blast 3.0 attempted to try and return to the idea of AB1.0 with the AoE frost cloak-effect. But because the duration of the heal was halved and made to tick every second, it meant that the now magic scaling frost damage wasn't sustainably usable. The reason for this was because the skill had a defensive stun and a massive heal that scales extremely well with max health. This is not what the pvp community asked for, nor did we need. The stun is only defensively good and not offensively. Our out of class options are awful. With our best practical option being limited to using flame clench which knocks enemies out of shalks. We need a good class offensive stun to be able to explore different archetypes and for the gameplay to be less clunky.

We need(ed) an offensive based class stun that traveled to the enemy while dealing damage (preferably frost damage) to somewhat replicate the old fissure combo.

What Arctic Blast 4.0 should be is exactly that. A damaging skill with an offensive stun. Keeping elements that people originally liked should be included as well as this both an expensive stun and a damage skill. I think the best thing for this class, right now, is to firstly remove minor berserk from bird of prey, and then create arctic blast 4.0. This skill would double the duration of the frost damage AoE, remove the healing from the morph entirely, and replace it with a fast line moving AoE Frost Damage Tornado that travels through enemies it hits. But stunning the first one it touches. This would be independent of the damaging cloak and would fire off as soon as the skill is cast. This would shift magicka warden's class design more into a frontal based AoE Burst playstyle which synergises very well with both deep fissure and shock clench. After this, living trellis would need to be buffed by around 55% in order to make it a viable burst heal once again. This puts the healing roughly on par with blessing of restoration if you would like a comparison. The reason this is not higher is because warden has easy access to major mending. And it's base healing should have always been a little lower because of it.

I would change the effects of dive as well. Make it faster as zos is determined to keep it as a spammable, and make the effects based off anything other than range away from target. This is contradictory to our playstyle and hard to reliably achive without a disengaging tool. Which we don't need.