Dynamic development - why aren't new settlements emerging anywhere?

Bradyfjord

Imagine this scenario (loosely based on "The Dark Tower" series by Stephen King):

We're in a 'Dragon-break' during which time doesn't work the way it normally does. But only in relation to the vestige. So, Tamriel (and Nirn) is moving on like normal, but the vestige doesn't. The vestige is doing all this 'hero work', but the vestige will never escape the year. And due to the nature of the vestige's 'rebirth' the vestige will adventure on infinitely within the year 582 2E.

Chips_Ahoy

Agree.

Something that I do not quite understand when when I go through the villages looking for people who have something that I want more than them.

There is no evolution in Elder Scrolls? the buildings and technology are the same in ESO and Skyrim, in 1000 years nothing has changed, everything is the same.

They can build robots, but they can't put veterinary clinics in towns to put stray cats to sleep...

Lugaldu

Chips_Ahoy wrote: »

There is no evolution in Elder Scrolls? the buildings and technology are the same in ESO and Skyrim, in 1000 years nothing has changed, everything is the same.

It is not really unusual that not so much has changed in terms of technological or scientific achievements in 1,000 years. In our world there have been millennia in which nothing or very little (and over a long period of time) has changed in terms of technological or scientific development / achievements. The last few centuries form an extreme contrast to everything humanity has seen before.

Olauron

Varana wrote: »

Olauron wrote: »

I agree, ashlanders are omitted. And cliffracers are omitted too. And when the island was divided into districts (Redoran, Hlaalu, Telvanni, and Temple), ashlanders were omitted again. That is because nobody cares about savages that may or may not wander some territory. There are no ashlander settlements, just temporary camps. So, even with ashlanders the territory is undeveloped.
As for Vivec city, since the island was called the "Temple preserve", there is no need to specifically include Temple settlements.
Regarding Seyda Neen, I don't believe in its existence in 2nd Era. That would lead to mass purge of "n'wah" from all Vvardenfell settlements (including Vivec and Seyda Neen), that would be a huge event after the Armistice, but it is not mentioned anywhere. I mean, the whole reason of the culture clash in the original Morrowind was because it was a new territory for mostly everyone, especially for the citizens of other provinces. The "it was open for imperials earlier, then closed, and now it is opened again" is completely different situation (especially for dunmer, for whom a 200-year old girl is too young).

P.S. TVTropes is a site known for years, but thanks nonetheless.

Sorry, but you can't just cherrypick what the same sentence is meaning. "She says Vvardenfell was uninhabited so that proves that Seyda Neen cannot have existed. The palace of a frelling God was there in a massive city but she's still correct about it being uninhabited." Jeannette Sitte obviously was either very "generous" with her generalisations, and then a small village like Seyda Neen would have flown under her radar. Or she had no actual clue about what was going on on the island. We have no evidence Sitte was ever even kind of close to Morrowind, let alone Vvardenfell, herself.

Keeping with the ES tradition that everything that's on the screen, is canon, and everything else is supplementary material and potentially unreliable, at best, Seyda Neen obviously did exist in the 2nd Era.
That said, A Short History of Morrowind states that the Temple preserve of Vvardenfell was instituted only after the Armistice, i.e. at the very end of the 2nd Era. So if we choose to believe the book (or certain parts of it), you've got one possibility for reducing the number or expelling non-Dunmer (or their retainers of other races) right there. That's still 300 years after ESO.
Sitte's text also doesn't preclude Seyda Neen still existing as a Hlaalu concession, for instance, with the Imperial presence only moving in after 3E414. (It's still officially Hlaalu territory in TES3:MW.)

You seem to overestimate a Dunmer's life span quite considerably. A few Telvanni wizards can get very, very old - but for the rest of them, 200 years would be a decent life span, and 300 years is already pushing it.

So the claim that "Seyda Neen can't have existed in the 2nd Era" is based on a selective reading of one badly informed outside source, and even ignores quite a few possibilities to reconcile both that book and the existence of the town.

P.S. That remark was not supposed to mean that TVTropes is news but to allude to the fact that links to the site often result(ed?) in generous sessions of binge-reading.

That's not cherrypicking, that's using the context. When in the previous sentence (and in the first part of the same sentence) the Temple is already mentioned, then there is no need to repeat and remind so soon. The sentence about Great Houses settlements is meant to provide clarification about everything in addition to the Temple places. What is important there is no contradiction in the original game to this, even more, all the interactions with dunmers confirm it.

There should be made a small correction. A Short History of Morrowind doesn't state that the Temple preserve was instituted only after the Armistice, it states that after the Armistice Vvardenfell became the Temple preserve under Imperial protection. Before that there was no Empire, no imperial influence and thus no need to create a preserve protecting the island from the imperials (that was already under the rule of Living Gods and nobody else).

As Nerevarine we mostly speak with the most influential dunmer citizens (and in games we mostly engage with those who matter, and hundreds of thousands of peasants or slaves are somewhere behind the scenes; while we see some peasants, we see them in much smaller proportion than expected from the society). That means that we usually get the information from those who have a quality of life good enough to live for hundreds of years. Those like Dratha, Sarano, Sarethi, etc. would clearly mention the former "n'wah occupation" in their rant about the current "n'wah occupation" (like "I haven't seen so much n'wah in Vivec since I was a boy/girl/young/etc.").

So, that is not something based on just the Short History of Morrowind. It is based on all the dialogues with those who must remember the days of ESO. And on the consequences of the sudden implementation of Temple preserve too. First, it is strange that to ensure the clear state of sacred land of Vvardenfell the Tribunal have given away Numidium to Tiber (slavery and autonomy with the preserve were the main points of bargain), yet they allowed imperial settlements before without any threats and when they were much more powerfull. Why bother restricting imperial settlements if those are already built?
Second, the purge would be big event enough. They had to remove all the citizens from Seyda Neen by any means necessary. Strangely, no historian noticed it.
And third, even if Seyda Neen was built in 2nd era, there were 400+ years of the preserve, when the town was abandoned. In Vvardenfell climate that would mean no buildings left intact. Some ruins, maybe. A few stones instead of walls, but likely nothing more. Why bother, again, to built in the same place and name it the same?

So, for me that is just a retcon for fanservice. Any possible explanations contradict the spirit of the original game where we are exploring the Terra Incognita, even if those explanations are suddenly canon.

Grianasteri

I'm going to hazard a guess at the reason being, because its a game.

We do not get new settlements or visible development, for the same reasons that there are no kids or toilets in ESO.

Lugaldu

Grianasteri wrote: »

We do not get new settlements or visible development, for the same reasons that there are no kids or toilets in ESO.

Two more points that could be discussed ... But then we would not need any food or drink either.