CP Grind is Brutal

FlopsyPrince

Pink_Pixie wrote: »

Yup the grind is even worse when you've done nearly ever quest in the game, every delve, every public dungeon and quest and the normal dungeons quests. We're stuck with skyreach, daily dungeons, daily battle grounds, repeatables and picking chests. Kind of disheartening, change is good, but some of these changes are just soul sucking.

Guess I'll just not play for 21 days to max out enlightenment, and eat a scroll to do a grind in a single day, rinse and repeat.

That is why many quality of life improvements are so important. Grind is a needed part of MMOs, but stupid grind is not.

VaranisArano

Lysette wrote: »

renne wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

I have never understood the need to grind to reach a number. Play the game for fun and eventually you will get there.

Because people like to be max level.
Because people like to be able to do the content they could previously without having to struggle now.
Because people feel like they need to be x level to get the best out of the game.
Because people might be gated off from doing content they could do at 810 now because they're not x CP level.

[snip]

I hope it helps you understand.

Well, I'm with kargen27 in this context - you guys create your own stressful scenario and instead to play the game, you convert it into the most boring work ever - grinding. it could be so enjoyable, if you wouldn't press yourself to that grind. It's not really the game, it's your expectation which is causing this.

Anything fun can feel like a grind when the developers are dangling a carrot in front of you, saying "Go on, you can get it if you just try hard enough!"Just look at events. How many people get irritable about the grind because they really want the rewards?

It's all well and good to tell me that I should enjoy the game for its own sake, but I already did. I hit max CP, mostly by questing. But now ZOS moved the finish line to CP 1800 or more if I want QOL stuff, and I can't exactly repeat those quests except by making new characters, you know?

"Oh, but it's your expectations that's making you not enjoy the thought of playing through Cadwell's Gold again."

"Mmm. Sure. Let's just agree to pretend that the Devs didn't just move the finish line and I'm really just sour because I'm only thinking about the grind instead of the amazing opportunity I have to have fun in the game for hours to earn the exp to reach the new finish line."

Kwoung

VaranisArano wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

renne wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

I have never understood the need to grind to reach a number. Play the game for fun and eventually you will get there.

Because people like to be max level.
Because people like to be able to do the content they could previously without having to struggle now.
Because people feel like they need to be x level to get the best out of the game.
Because people might be gated off from doing content they could do at 810 now because they're not x CP level.

[snip]

I hope it helps you understand.

Well, I'm with kargen27 in this context - you guys create your own stressful scenario and instead to play the game, you convert it into the most boring work ever - grinding. it could be so enjoyable, if you wouldn't press yourself to that grind. It's not really the game, it's your expectation which is causing this.

Anything fun can feel like a grind when the developers are dangling a carrot in front of you, saying "Go on, you can get it if you just try hard enough!"Just look at events. How many people get irritable about the grind because they really want the rewards?

It's all well and good to tell me that I should enjoy the game for its own sake, but I already did. I hit max CP, mostly by questing. But now ZOS moved the finish line to CP 1800 or more if I want QOL stuff, and I can't exactly repeat those quests except by making new characters, you know?

"Oh, but it's your expectations that's making you not enjoy the thought of playing through Cadwell's Gold again."

"Mmm. Sure. Let's just agree to pretend that the Devs didn't just move the finish line and I'm really just sour because I'm only thinking about the grind instead of the amazing opportunity I have to have fun in the game for hours to earn the exp to reach the new finish line."

Agreed. I have enjoyed the game many a time over already growing alts of different classes to try them out. They all grew up doing pretty much all the quests. Now I have full char slots (and then some), not a lot of quests left to do on most characters and I have already done all the content so many times over it makes my head spin.

Any way you cut it, if I want to further progress my chars it will be a grind. I just did my first progression trial this past Saturday, as enough of us in my guild finally (after a year) have high enough DPS to try... and we managed the first 2 dragons in VSS. Now we all lost between 10-20K DPS and although we are going to try again this Saturday, I have serious doubts of even being able to clear 1 dragon. A guild goal a year in the making, shot down overnight, but we will see... maybe they made all the dragons easier (ROFL right).

silvereyes

LarsS wrote: »

I am at 1690, before the patch I needed 1 333 000 xp for next cp now I need 425 000 xp so its much faster.

The curve was significantly flattened. But the power of each point has been significantly reduced.

Here’s a comparison of the old and new curves.

ThorianB

ShadowKyuubi wrote: »

ThorianB wrote: »

ShadowKyuubi wrote: »

ThorianB wrote: »

I'm CP 904. I gained two CP just running around farming resource nodes no XP buff in about 40 minutes. I only kill the mobs that i need to get the node. The XP gain doesn't seem bad at all. However the CP trees are not exciting me all that much. I was excited about it at first but the changes to CP 2.0 just seems like a more restrictive 1.0 after playing with it more. I really wish they had of scrapped the entire CP system for something different.

It depends on how long you did this for, and if you had enlightened experience or not. If you can get two CP in a day, then it will take 450 days to hit 1800 CP. Which is sort of the "soft cap" for CP right now.

I said it was about 40 minutes i had full enlightenment. But i was only farming nodes and killing stuff when i didn't have a choice. I wasn't TRYING to gain XP which was my entire point.

Well, yes. When you have enlightenment...CP is really easy to gain. So that makes a lot more sense. You are rewarded 400k exp in enlightenment a day. At my CP level, it takes ~300k experience to get a CP point. So, once a day...I can gain one CP, at a vastly accelerated rate. However, once that enlightenment ends...it takes significantly longer to gain that point. I don't remember the exact experience bonus from enlightenment, but it is significant. Much more than a 150% scroll/ambrosia.

That is why I suggest a potential increase in Enlightenment experience per day...don't increase the cap...just the per day bonus. So that it makes it easier to grind the CP levels, as long as you are consistent about it.

I know how enlightenment works. I am not that far off you in CP levels...as i stated. It takes you 300k for a level, it takes me 250k. There are 250 levels between us. Every new level you have to get maybe a few hundred extra more CP than you did the last level. That is one extra mob you will have to kill each new level.

As i clearly stated, i wasn't trying to level or kill mobs. I was going out of my way to AVOID killing mobs as i was farming nodes. So i ACCIDENTALLY gained 2 levels in 40 minutes of trying NOT to do things that give XP. Sure i had enlightenment but killing a rando mob every 2-3 minutes isn't exactly an XP grind.

Pop a scroll and/or get an XP event and we could grind out 10 plus CP an hour with a bit of effort. That reminds me of when i was like CP 30. The CP grind is not bad at all and we have 2 XP events in the next month or so. That is going to allow you to grind out XP very quickly.

silvereyes

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Pink_Pixie wrote: »

Yup the grind is even worse when you've done nearly ever quest in the game, every delve, every public dungeon and quest and the normal dungeons quests. We're stuck with skyreach, daily dungeons, daily battle grounds, repeatables and picking chests. Kind of disheartening, change is good, but some of these changes are just soul sucking.

Guess I'll just not play for 21 days to max out enlightenment, and eat a scroll to do a grind in a single day, rinse and repeat.

That is why many quality of life improvements are so important. Grind is a needed part of MMOs, but stupid grind is not.

Agreed. I think they missed a real opportunity here. What I would have preferred would have been:

• Reduced vertical progression, ending at CP 600. Each tree's active stars would all be combat related, with the same 4x slot limit.
• No combat passive stars. They only serve to creep power for those with high CP.
• All horizontal progression being non-combat passives dispersed through the three trees instead of concentrated into a single tree.

If they had done that, everyone would be happy right now. Those under CP 600 would be happy to be closer to power cap, and those over would be happily playing with their new toys. Instead, they went the other direction, and here we are with a non-combat micromanagement hell in the green tree and an endless combat grind in the others.

Lysette

VaranisArano wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

renne wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

I have never understood the need to grind to reach a number. Play the game for fun and eventually you will get there.

Because people like to be max level.
Because people like to be able to do the content they could previously without having to struggle now.
Because people feel like they need to be x level to get the best out of the game.
Because people might be gated off from doing content they could do at 810 now because they're not x CP level.

[snip]

I hope it helps you understand.

Well, I'm with kargen27 in this context - you guys create your own stressful scenario and instead to play the game, you convert it into the most boring work ever - grinding. it could be so enjoyable, if you wouldn't press yourself to that grind. It's not really the game, it's your expectation which is causing this.

Anything fun can feel like a grind when the developers are dangling a carrot in front of you, saying "Go on, you can get it if you just try hard enough!"Just look at events. How many people get irritable about the grind because they really want the rewards?

It's all well and good to tell me that I should enjoy the game for its own sake, but I already did. I hit max CP, mostly by questing. But now ZOS moved the finish line to CP 1800 or more if I want QOL stuff, and I can't exactly repeat those quests except by making new characters, you know?

"Oh, but it's your expectations that's making you not enjoy the thought of playing through Cadwell's Gold again."

"Mmm. Sure. Let's just agree to pretend that the Devs didn't just move the finish line and I'm really just sour because I'm only thinking about the grind instead of the amazing opportunity I have to have fun in the game for hours to earn the exp to reach the new finish line."

this is your problem - you just see the finish line - there is no finish line really - zos will keep increasing it until the game will finally come to an end - if you always want to get to the finish line, you will never get out of the grind - that was, what I was trying to tell you - it is you creating your own nightmare.

ZOS_ConnorG

Greetings all,

After review we have had to edit or remove several posts for rule violations, mostly Baiting. Ensure when engaging in a discussion that you keep said discussion civil, constructive, and within the rules. If you see a post that is baiting in nature do not engage it with further hostility and instead report it for the moderators to review.

You are welcome to review the Community Rules here.

silky_soft

renne wrote: »

silky_soft wrote: »

My second account is 330 and there is no extra mechanic to catch up. I feel sorry for new people, which there will be even more once ESO goes on MS Xbox gamepass.

There needs to be another boost mechanic for accounts below the soft cap. Make it a enlightenment scroll or a momento, a daily event quest. It doesn't matter how it's implemented just as long as it's available to everyone.

ESO already IS on Xbox Game Pass an has been for a long time.

For xbox yes, but not pc.

phwaap

Take 15 mins a day and do a random normal with a scroll/ambrosia. For those that checked out at 810 it's pretty much a cp. When you have time, do a couple of toons. You'll also get your transmutes maxed.

ZaroktheImmortal

silvereyes wrote: »

LarsS wrote: »

I am at 1690, before the patch I needed 1 333 000 xp for next cp now I need 425 000 xp so its much faster.

The curve was significantly flattened. But the power of each point has been significantly reduced.

Here’s a comparison of the old and new curves.

It'll be easier now than before but still *** me that's going to be one hell of a grind makes me wish I had saved up more accelerated points before the change over.

ZaroktheImmortal

Would also be nice if we actually got more accelerated points now. There's an idea. Would help with the grinding.

YE4hR1GHT

Varangian_af_Scaniae wrote: »

A few years ago I was deeply depressed and all I did was complain even about stuff that's not worth discussing.

From your nick I assume you live or are from south Sweden.
As a foreigner living in Sweden ( relax I am european too, and no I am not on welfare, dont call the police) I would like to ask...nah nevermind, I just wanted to take a cheap shot at Sweden.

Rowjoh

I'm on 1700 cp (phew!) and just discovered a couple of great ways to earn up to 20cp a day (much more for lower level CP'ers !) for about an hours 'grind'.

1st part: Grand xp scrolls + Enlightenment helps a lot (or at least 1 or the 2) but everyone knows that, right ?

Keeping the 2nd part to myself though ! hehe

YE4hR1GHT

ZOS_ConnorG wrote: »

After review we have had to edit or remove several posts for rule violationshere.

Time to deploy snipers on the roofs right ?

XvarleyX

I have been grinding Skyreach and manage 10/11 CP in 1 hour 20 minutes. this will begin to drop off more and more of course.

Using full gold training gear (7 body + weps), and Mythic Ambrosia. Each run of Skyreach taking aprox 3-3:30mins without chest, solo. No enlightenment.

CP 1020-1090 took 2 bum flattening sessions.

VoodooPlatypus

The journey is the destination.

Lysette wrote: »

if you always want to get to the finish line, you will never get out of the grind

Taggund

Being less than CP600 is really a problem with the new system. I'm mostly interested in the Craft tree, and I'm contemplating grinding some as I need a couple hundred more points to get to where I want (and was at previously with some skills). Wasting points in some skills just to get to gated skills, and eventually being at a point I have to choose slotted items, makes me really dislike this system, as I primarily am doing overland, daily questing, and crafting/farming type content. So much of the tree are things I do constantly while just playing the game, and this new system takes the fun out of that.

Agenericname

VoodooPlatypus wrote: »

The journey is the destination.

Lysette wrote: »

if you always want to get to the finish line, you will never get out of the grind

Im mostly neutral about this. As long as Im having fun and can play the content I want, Im okay and will continue to play. So far, those conditions have been met.

That said, the way that ZOS handled this is a bit ironic. Converting the XP earned, specifically the 50% penalty over cap, is a situation that only applies to players who chose to play without any real CP progression already. In other words, they already chose the journey over the destination.

It isnt giving incentive to those players, at least, not enough to entice them to play. They were already playing. The most ZOS could hope for is for a player to be apathetic about, like myself, at the risk of alienating others. Its a bit of a no-win scenario at best. Theres not a lot for them to gain by this decision.

AlnilamE

VaranisArano wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

renne wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

I have never understood the need to grind to reach a number. Play the game for fun and eventually you will get there.

Because people like to be max level.
Because people like to be able to do the content they could previously without having to struggle now.
Because people feel like they need to be x level to get the best out of the game.
Because people might be gated off from doing content they could do at 810 now because they're not x CP level.

[snip]

I hope it helps you understand.

Well, I'm with kargen27 in this context - you guys create your own stressful scenario and instead to play the game, you convert it into the most boring work ever - grinding. it could be so enjoyable, if you wouldn't press yourself to that grind. It's not really the game, it's your expectation which is causing this.

Anything fun can feel like a grind when the developers are dangling a carrot in front of you, saying "Go on, you can get it if you just try hard enough!"Just look at events. How many people get irritable about the grind because they really want the rewards?

It's all well and good to tell me that I should enjoy the game for its own sake, but I already did. I hit max CP, mostly by questing. But now ZOS moved the finish line to CP 1800 or more if I want QOL stuff, and I can't exactly repeat those quests except by making new characters, you know?

"Oh, but it's your expectations that's making you not enjoy the thought of playing through Cadwell's Gold again."

"Mmm. Sure. Let's just agree to pretend that the Devs didn't just move the finish line and I'm really just sour because I'm only thinking about the grind instead of the amazing opportunity I have to have fun in the game for hours to earn the exp to reach the new finish line."

But I think that's where we have to step back and say "I don't think that carrot is worth it right now".

Usually, for events, I set my characters up so that they have quests pre-done where possible, so that I only go "grind" if I feel like it. I somehow end up with all I want from the events anyway.

Or get together with guildies to do stuff.

I'm personally happy to be earning CP at a decent clip for the first time since they introduced the cap. I have no plans for "grinding" other than doing the master writs I get from daily writs every time they pile up high enough.

But I am now encouraged to do content I hadn't done in a while, like pledges and random dungeons.

ShadowKyuubi wrote: »

Guys, I can we tone it back a bit? I don't want post to become strictly an argument that creates sides. I just want to reiterate that currently, the grind to be able to hit max CP is a bit intensive. It will take several weeks, if not months, to hit the cap. And that is if you are constantly grinding. That is a fact. For me, I don't want to constantly grind experience. That is not what I have fun doing, but it is something I feel like I have to do, in order to hit my maximum potential now as a DD for harder trial content.

If anything, I want this to be a post where we can suggest some innovative ideas for better experience gains. Different ideas to make it less of a struggle. Not only to hit cap, but to just increase CP in general, so that we can progress at what I think is a more reasonable rate, than the current system.

I am sorry if the intention of this post and what I was hoping the discussion would be was not as clear. Although, I appreciate everyone bringing in their different perspectives. I just don't not want this to become an argument, where we start berating or insulting other peoples issues/problems with the current system. Thank you.

Cheers,
Shadowkyuubi

I think this is a good place to mention that what the devs deemed "a reasonable pace" to earn CP when the system came out, was 1 CP per day for the average player. That's why enlightenment is 400k XP, since that's what it took for a CP before there was a curve.

If you feel the need to grind to reach your max potential, and to excel in harder content, you could test out your performance on live and compare it to a template on the PTS at different CP levels to see if the gain is really as great as you imagine.

AlextheMuspel

Rowjoh wrote: »

I'm on 1700 cp (phew!) and just discovered a couple of great ways to earn up to 20cp a day (much more for lower level CP'ers !) for about an hours 'grind'.

1st part: Grand xp scrolls + Enlightenment helps a lot (or at least 1 or the 2) but everyone knows that, right ?

Keeping the 2nd part to myself though ! hehe

You mean master writ? Well you gotta be rich to be able to do that. Investing several million gold is like hundreds of dollars worth of crowns. If this isn’t P2W idk what is.

Shantu

I can't imagine coming in as a new player at looking at this massive CP mountain to climb. I'd likely go play something else. But at 1685 CP I can afford to not worry much about grinding and just play the game.

scorpius2k1

kargen27 wrote: »

I have never understood the need to grind to reach a number. Play the game for fun and eventually you will get there.

This. So much.

"Hurry up, grind grind grind to get to max level and reach that endgame as fast as possible"

Then, suddenly that player becomes bored and loses interest in a short period because they are tired of doing the same content over and over. Seems like self-inflicted boredom and a missed to chanced to enjoy what the game has to offer to me imho.

On the other side of the coin, a game should offer better rewards and incentives to get players to actually complete all content and not just parts of it that offer the fastest route. Balance progression in content in all different areas of the game. It's too linear in one direction or the other. Give better rewards for completing content, more XP, things you wont find by grinding the same thing over and over, etc. ESO's motto "Play how you want" should be utilized a LOT more in these areas imho.

.

Ittrix

scorpius2k1 wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

I have never understood the need to grind to reach a number. Play the game for fun and eventually you will get there.

This. So much.

Hurry up, grind grind grind to get to max level and reach that endgame as fast as possible. Then, suddenly a player becomes bored in a short period because they are tired of doing the same content over and over. Seems like self-inflicted boredom and a missed to chanced to enjoy what the game has to offer to me imho.

I don't understand it either. This one's a bit different, though.
I did play casually, and slowly worked my way up to max CP. I started to get into vet trials and hard modes at that point, and competing with myself to do better and better.

As of monday, I am no longer max CP and I'm weaker than before. I want it back.

Enemy-of-Coldharbour

Rowjoh wrote: »

I'm on 1700 cp (phew!) and just discovered a couple of great ways to earn up to 20cp a day (much more for lower level CP'ers !) for about an hours 'grind'.

1st part: Grand xp scrolls + Enlightenment helps a lot (or at least 1 or the 2) but everyone knows that, right ?

Keeping the 2nd part to myself though ! hehe

Tease...

scorpius2k1

Ittrix wrote: »

scorpius2k1 wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

I have never understood the need to grind to reach a number. Play the game for fun and eventually you will get there.

This. So much.

Hurry up, grind grind grind to get to max level and reach that endgame as fast as possible. Then, suddenly a player becomes bored in a short period because they are tired of doing the same content over and over. Seems like self-inflicted boredom and a missed to chanced to enjoy what the game has to offer to me imho.

I don't understand it either. This one's a bit different, though.
I did play casually, and slowly worked my way up to max CP. I started to get into vet trials and hard modes at that point, and competing with myself to do better and better.

As of monday, I am no longer max CP and I'm weaker than before. I want it back.

I feel a bit the same too. I was max 810 and now I'm 990...2100 is a long way to go for min/max and 3600 even longer. I can definitely "feel" it in the gameplay. Even though the thought of leveling so far is quite daunting tbh (it took me 3 years to get to 990) ..I am still trying to see the positive here -- at least most of my toons now have something to do other than the daily routine. I'm actually going to go through and do some different content now. I think the new 2.0 system will be great in the longrun, but adjustments might need made along the way. At the end of the day, this is what the majority asked for and here it is, and I would guess it's here to stay.

Hawco10

In reading this, I’m just not seeing how anyone can rationalize this as fun and normal ? To me at least, logging in to game is to have fun. I have zero interest in logging in next week (console) and finding out that I have to spend hours and hours grinding for a cp. I’m just not going to do that. I’m currently sitting around 1430cp and so I’ll figure on doing my daily crafting and just logging off straight after

Varangian_af_Scaniae

YE4hR1GHT wrote: »

Varangian_af_Scaniae wrote: »

A few years ago I was deeply depressed and all I did was complain even about stuff that's not worth discussing.

From your nick I assume you live or are from south Sweden.
As a foreigner living in Sweden ( relax I am european too, and no I am not on welfare, dont call the police) I would like to ask...nah nevermind, I just wanted to take a cheap shot at Sweden.

Off Topic:
Call the police? Haha from all friends and relatives that have called the police the last 10 years, they either not show up or come three days to late. I have no problems with Europeans but after I worked in Malmö for 10 years you get bigoted. Loosing your country to other nationalities probably raised my depression, but my biggest problem is that I have no connection with Swedes anymore even if I am an ethnic Swede. Where I live more than 50% are first or second generation immigrants and I have more in common with Polacks, Danes, people from the Balkan region than Swedes.

nublife01

ZOS_ConnorG wrote: »

Greetings all,

After review we have had to edit or remove several posts for rule violations, mostly Baiting. Ensure when engaging in a discussion that you keep said discussion civil, constructive, and within the rules. If you see a post that is baiting in nature do not engage it with further hostility and instead report it for the moderators to review.

You are welcome to review the Community Rules here.

Dude if you don't want the player base community to leave in droves something has to be done about this. Everyone is angry about this ridiculous grind. It is the worst forced grind that has ever been implemented in this game. Your company is about to lose a ton of money because of it. Forum ban me if you want for responding directly to you in this fashion. But this needs to be changed asap or a lot of the player base is going to quit the game and ESO will plummet. You have to voice this to the devs man everyone is mad.

nublife01

Hawco10 wrote: »

In reading this, I’m just not seeing how anyone can rationalize this as fun and normal ? To me at least, logging in to game is to have fun. I have zero interest in logging in next week (console) and finding out that I have to spend hours and hours grinding for a cp. I’m just not going to do that. I’m currently sitting around 1430cp and so I’ll figure on doing my daily crafting and just logging off straight after

1400cp is a good spot. everyone who is at or close to the old cap because they did activities that do not yield good experience such as pvp are in a really bad spot. the average cp level of the player base is 400cp. think about it man 1000 levels beneath you. 1000 levels required to be relevant in cp pvp. its really bad. sure people are going to grind for the next week then when they realize how long they have to grind to enjoy their endgame content again theyre going to quit the game. its the worst change ive seen made to this game since beta.

Edit: to clarify you need to be at least cp 1400 to actually stand a chance in duels in cp pvp. it's like a hardcore cutoff. if you look at the cp tree yourself specifically the blue tree and even the red it is very noticeable though I and others have also tested this empirically in pvp via duels and such and it is very very noticeable how gimped you are if you are not at least 1400cp. even if you are 1200 cp you're getting rolled by anyone 1400+. I'm sure its not as bad in PVE but in PVP it is horrid.