CP Grind is Brutal

ShadowKyuubi

I feel like this topic is going to be beat to death over the next few days. However, I wanted to bring it up again. My CP is relatively low (~1150). I don't do things that get experience in the game. I farm, parse, and do the occasional trials/dungeons. Sure, some of these get experience, but it isn't a lot. I don't enjoy doing crafting writs on all my characters, or every daily there is for furnishing plans/motifs I never use. So my CP never really increased, even though I've been playing the game since beta.

I was relieved when I finally caught up to the 810 cap, however long ago that was, because it meant my damage as a DD was no longer limited by CP...only by skill. So I focused on becoming better, and I did. I won't say I'm the best, but I am still pretty good. However, now it is the exact opposite problem. I'm back to my damage being limited by my CP again...and the feeling kind of sucks. Knowing that I just have to sit there and grind out my CP, in order to get it back to an appropriate level. I'm going to do it, but I feel like I can't enjoy the game until I get to that point. So...at least make the grind more bearable.

Find new ways to incorporate gaining experience, or increase the amount of base experience. Add experience to farming nodes; heck, add it to killing parsing dummies in a house ( I do a lot of that to practice). I don't care what you do, but right now, from my perspective...I am not enjoying the game, because I know I have to do a lot of things I don't enjoy doing, in order to get my CP back up.

Cheers,
Shadowkyuubi

P.S. Maybe increase the enlightened experience amount you get by like...I don't know, a factor of ten. At least then, I feel like I can grind skyreach for an hour a day (I do ~4-5 minute runs, solo) and get somewhere with my CP...

Edit to the P.S.: With a cumulative total of 1mil enlightened experience saved up, I was able to get about 3-4 cp...in a timely manner at my current CP. So, by increasing it by maybe a factor of 5-7...I can still get like 20-30 CP a day (I was a bit to lazy to do the math properly, sorry)...in a timely manner. Leaving me time to enjoy the things I do enjoy doing. Which is not grinding experience. This way, if I want to, I can put in the time to make progress towards reaching CP cap everyday, but it will still take me several months to reach that cap...instead of much, much longer.

Pink_Pixie

Yup the grind is even worse when you've done nearly ever quest in the game, every delve, every public dungeon and quest and the normal dungeons quests. We're stuck with skyreach, daily dungeons, daily battle grounds, repeatables and picking chests. Kind of disheartening, change is good, but some of these changes are just soul sucking.

Guess I'll just not play for 21 days to max out enlightenment, and eat a scroll to do a grind in a single day, rinse and repeat.

Ratzkifal

Pink_Pixie wrote: »

Yup the grind is even worse when you've done nearly ever quest in the game, every delve, every public dungeon and quest and the normal dungeons quests. We're stuck with skyreach, daily dungeons, daily battle grounds, repeatables and picking chests. Kind of disheartening, change is good, but some of these changes are just soul sucking.

Guess I'll just not play for 21 days to max out enlightenment, and eat a scroll to do a grind in a single day, rinse and repeat.

I haven't even considered that. You can complete the entire MMO fast and not be at 3600CP yet with the old system but doing the same in the new system would yield a lot more CP, which veteran players can only get through grinding.
Or you make a new character and do all the quests on that one, but I know a lot of people play on just one character so that's easier said than done.

renne

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Pink_Pixie wrote: »

Yup the grind is even worse when you've done nearly ever quest in the game, every delve, every public dungeon and quest and the normal dungeons quests. We're stuck with skyreach, daily dungeons, daily battle grounds, repeatables and picking chests. Kind of disheartening, change is good, but some of these changes are just soul sucking.

Guess I'll just not play for 21 days to max out enlightenment, and eat a scroll to do a grind in a single day, rinse and repeat.

I haven't even considered that. You can complete the entire MMO fast and not be at 3600CP yet with the old system but doing the same in the new system would yield a lot more CP, which veteran players can only get through grinding.
Or you make a new character and do all the quests on that one, but I know a lot of people play on just one character so that's easier said than done.

I have my main which I do all my things on, but I also have a bunch of lvl 50 toons I will be using scrolls on and speedrunning main quests/region quests/high XP quests on to help grind XP.

kargen27

I have never understood the need to grind to reach a number. Play the game for fun and eventually you will get there.

renne

kargen27 wrote: »

I have never understood the need to grind to reach a number. Play the game for fun and eventually you will get there.

Because people like to be max level.
Because people like to be able to do the content they could previously without having to struggle now.
Because people feel like they need to be x level to get the best out of the game.
Because people might be gated off from doing content they could do at 810 now because they're not x CP level.

[snip]

I hope it helps you understand.

[Edited to remove Baiting]

silky_soft

My second account is 330 and there is no extra mechanic to catch up. I feel sorry for new people, which there will be even more once ESO goes on MS Xbox gamepass.

There needs to be another boost mechanic for accounts below the soft cap. Make it a enlightenment scroll or a momento, a daily event quest. It doesn't matter how it's implemented just as long as it's available to everyone.

renne

silky_soft wrote: »

My second account is 330 and there is no extra mechanic to catch up. I feel sorry for new people, which there will be even more once ESO goes on MS Xbox gamepass.

There needs to be another boost mechanic for accounts below the soft cap. Make it a enlightenment scroll or a momento, a daily event quest. It doesn't matter how it's implemented just as long as it's available to everyone.

ESO already IS on Xbox Game Pass an has been for a long time.

Kurat

renne wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

I have never understood the need to grind to reach a number. Play the game for fun and eventually you will get there.

Because people like to be max level.
Because people like to be able to do the content they could previously without having to struggle now.
Because people feel like they need to be x level to get the best out of the game.
Because people might be gated off from doing content they could do at 810 now because they're not x CP level.

[snip]

I hope it helps you understand.

Can you give some examples, what exactly cant you do now that you could before the patch? [snip]
Yes you are right about more struggle now but that is because our dps and mitigation got slightly nerfed. No amount of cp will fix that. You're around cp1200 now and more cp will not increase your dps. You can grind to cp2000 to get some QoL improvement and slightly better survivability but your dps will be the same. Take a good look at the blue tree and you'll see that theres simply nothing more to add that will increase dps.

[Edited to remove Baiting]

VaranisArano

kargen27 wrote: »

I have never understood the need to grind to reach a number. Play the game for fun and eventually you will get there.

Ironically, if ZOS had scaled the CP I did earn by playing the game for fun, I'd be a lot closer to the number I want to be at now.

I mean, prior to this, there was no reason to aim for CP 3600, so I didn't bother. I just played the game, earning CP as I PVPed and quested (neither of which is particularly lucrative in the exp department.)

IrishRonD

kargen27 wrote: »

I have never understood the need to grind to reach a number. Play the game for fun and eventually you will get there.

But the fun has been removed, as now I have to micromanage how may character is loaded out. I am going fishing, I have to make sure I have those... Oh, I see some mats... Oh wait, do I have my CP in those or not, let me check. OK, good to go... Mats are gone... Ahhh, I'll just do some thievery... Am I set up for that? What?!?!? I've been playing for 2 hours and haven't done anything yet.

To paraphrase H. Ross Perot - "Hear that giant sucking sound?"

Tigertron

My XP gain has quadrupled. I did writs on 9 chars all with a 50% scroll and got one CP. that means 1cp per 30min of grinding. It will go fast.
I’m cp 1025.

renne

Kurat wrote: »

renne wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

I have never understood the need to grind to reach a number. Play the game for fun and eventually you will get there.

Because people like to be max level.
Because people like to be able to do the content they could previously without having to struggle now.
Because people feel like they need to be x level to get the best out of the game.
Because people might be gated off from doing content they could do at 810 now because they're not x CP level.

[snip]

I hope it helps you understand.

Can you give some examples, what exactly cant you do now that you could before the patch? [snip]
Yes you are right about more struggle now but that is because our dps and mitigation got slightly nerfed. No amount of cp will fix that. You're around cp1200 now and more cp will not increase your dps. You can grind to cp2000 to get some QoL improvement and slightly better survivability but your dps will be the same. Take a good look at the blue tree and you'll see that theres simply nothing more to add that will increase dps.

[snip]

There will absolutely be guilds requiring someone to have minumum CP to get on teams for end game content and if the person doesn't have that CP then they will be gated off from doing that content, because there were absolutely guilds requiring people to have 810 CP to do the content.

[Edited to remove Baiting]

Kwoung

Tigertron wrote: »

My XP gain has quadrupled. I did writs on 9 chars all with a 50% scroll and got one CP. that means 1cp per 30min of grinding. It will go fast.
I’m cp 1025.

A. It will slow down as you level.
B. At that rate you have 4 hours of grinding every single day for a year to hit cap.

ShadowKyuubi

Guys, I can we tone it back a bit? I don't want post to become strictly an argument that creates sides. I just want to reiterate that currently, the grind to be able to hit max CP is a bit intensive. It will take several weeks, if not months, to hit the cap. And that is if you are constantly grinding. That is a fact. For me, I don't want to constantly grind experience. That is not what I have fun doing, but it is something I feel like I have to do, in order to hit my maximum potential now as a DD for harder trial content.

If anything, I want this to be a post where we can suggest some innovative ideas for better experience gains. Different ideas to make it less of a struggle. Not only to hit cap, but to just increase CP in general, so that we can progress at what I think is a more reasonable rate, than the current system.

I am sorry if the intention of this post and what I was hoping the discussion would be was not as clear. Although, I appreciate everyone bringing in their different perspectives. I just don't not want this to become an argument, where we start berating or insulting other peoples issues/problems with the current system. Thank you.

Cheers,
Shadowkyuubi

Kurat

.

renne wrote: »

Kurat wrote: »

renne wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

I have never understood the need to grind to reach a number. Play the game for fun and eventually you will get there.

Because people like to be max level.
Because people like to be able to do the content they could previously without having to struggle now.
Because people feel like they need to be x level to get the best out of the game.
Because people might be gated off from doing content they could do at 810 now because they're not x CP level.

[snip]

I hope it helps you understand.

Can you give some examples, what exactly cant you do now that you could before the patch? [snip]
Yes you are right about more struggle now but that is because our dps and mitigation got slightly nerfed. No amount of cp will fix that. You're around cp1200 now and more cp will not increase your dps. You can grind to cp2000 to get some QoL improvement and slightly better survivability but your dps will be the same. Take a good look at the blue tree and you'll see that theres simply nothing more to add that will increase dps.

[snip]

There will absolutely be guilds requiring someone to have minumum CP to get on teams for end game content and if the person doesn't have that CP then they will be gated off from doing that content, because there were absolutely guilds requiring people to have 810 CP to do the content.

[snip] You are better off without them. Find better guild. Most guilds require experience/clears and parse. As long as you are above cp160 for drop purposes, no one cares about your cp if you can pull your weight. There are alot of high cp players in this game who cant play. Only pugs may kick you if you're too low cp.

[Edited to remove Baiting]

ThorianB

I'm CP 904. I gained two CP just running around farming resource nodes no XP buff in about 40 minutes. I only kill the mobs that i need to get the node. The XP gain doesn't seem bad at all. However the CP trees are not exciting me all that much. I was excited about it at first but the changes to CP 2.0 just seems like a more restrictive 1.0 after playing with it more. I really wish they had of scrapped the entire CP system for something different.

ShadowKyuubi

ThorianB wrote: »

I'm CP 904. I gained two CP just running around farming resource nodes no XP buff in about 40 minutes. I only kill the mobs that i need to get the node. The XP gain doesn't seem bad at all. However the CP trees are not exciting me all that much. I was excited about it at first but the changes to CP 2.0 just seems like a more restrictive 1.0 after playing with it more. I really wish they had of scrapped the entire CP system for something different.

It depends on how long you did this for, and if you had enlightened experience or not. If you can get two CP in a day, then it will take 450 days to hit 1800 CP. Which is sort of the "soft cap" for CP right now.

ThorianB

ShadowKyuubi wrote: »

ThorianB wrote: »

I'm CP 904. I gained two CP just running around farming resource nodes no XP buff in about 40 minutes. I only kill the mobs that i need to get the node. The XP gain doesn't seem bad at all. However the CP trees are not exciting me all that much. I was excited about it at first but the changes to CP 2.0 just seems like a more restrictive 1.0 after playing with it more. I really wish they had of scrapped the entire CP system for something different.

It depends on how long you did this for, and if you had enlightened experience or not. If you can get two CP in a day, then it will take 450 days to hit 1800 CP. Which is sort of the "soft cap" for CP right now.

I said it was about 40 minutes i had full enlightenment. But i was only farming nodes and killing stuff when i didn't have a choice. I wasn't TRYING to gain XP which was my entire point.

ShadowKyuubi

ThorianB wrote: »

ShadowKyuubi wrote: »

ThorianB wrote: »

I'm CP 904. I gained two CP just running around farming resource nodes no XP buff in about 40 minutes. I only kill the mobs that i need to get the node. The XP gain doesn't seem bad at all. However the CP trees are not exciting me all that much. I was excited about it at first but the changes to CP 2.0 just seems like a more restrictive 1.0 after playing with it more. I really wish they had of scrapped the entire CP system for something different.

It depends on how long you did this for, and if you had enlightened experience or not. If you can get two CP in a day, then it will take 450 days to hit 1800 CP. Which is sort of the "soft cap" for CP right now.

I said it was about 40 minutes i had full enlightenment. But i was only farming nodes and killing stuff when i didn't have a choice. I wasn't TRYING to gain XP which was my entire point.

Well, yes. When you have enlightenment...CP is really easy to gain. So that makes a lot more sense. You are rewarded 400k exp in enlightenment a day. At my CP level, it takes ~300k experience to get a CP point. So, once a day...I can gain one CP, at a vastly accelerated rate. However, once that enlightenment ends...it takes significantly longer to gain that point. I don't remember the exact experience bonus from enlightenment, but it is significant. Much more than a 150% scroll/ambrosia.

That is why I suggest a potential increase in Enlightenment experience per day...don't increase the cap...just the per day bonus. So that it makes it easier to grind the CP levels, as long as you are consistent about it.

SeaArcanist

ye i gotta put 10-30 points in stuff i dont, in a lined up row, sum totaling 1/3rd my champ points jsut to be able to slot stuff i want. champ systme brutal to lowbies. and getting to 1600-ish is like getting to 810. but even getting to 810 was hard. THAT and we'll need to hit 2k+ to maximize our trial/pvp potential. (all those little perks add up!)

i feel sorry for literal new commers who essentually have to 810 twice in order to hit 2k+ champ and be able to maximize themselves to stay on par.

SeaArcanist

and casuals. my goodness if you;re a casual just entering eso. youll not only be overwhelmed. but ease of avalibility for end game pve/pvp content wont be easy for you.

SeaArcanist

im a semi sorta casual. since i jsut pvp'd alot. liek ive only gotten to 1080 CP during my entire eso career. and i know alot of players who have played for a year or 2, jsut nto barley got to 810 before this 2.0 system hit. now to compete they gotta grind to 810 again, exp wise. to hit i nthe 1800's, but even further to hit 2k+..

peopel say "WOW HALF THE EXP!" but after 1620 it catched up to the normal exp needed again. and possibly keeps climbing higher? idk. so yeah, getting 2k+ is still like getting 810 2-3 times in 1.0

TwinLamps

kargen27 wrote: »

I have never understood the need to grind to reach a number. Play the game for fun and eventually you will get there.

When you spend years being maxed out and then someone make it you will need years to be maxed out again, some see it as welcomed change cause they were bored af af, others see it as curse, cause it forces them to do content they dislike, or to face consequences of being below optimal or even just below others we compete with for spots in raids etc

mb10

ZOS' last ditch attempt to keep hold of people by giving them a very long and grindy reason to stay lol

Worst part is they'll nerf everything you grind for now in a year or two anyway. Best to just enjoy life irl and not get sucked into wasting your youth by "grinding CP"

Lysette

renne wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

I have never understood the need to grind to reach a number. Play the game for fun and eventually you will get there.

Because people like to be max level.
Because people like to be able to do the content they could previously without having to struggle now.
Because people feel like they need to be x level to get the best out of the game.
Because people might be gated off from doing content they could do at 810 now because they're not x CP level.

[snip]

I hope it helps you understand.

Well, I'm with @kargen27 in this context - you guys create your own stressful scenario and instead to play the game, you convert it into the most boring work ever - grinding. it could be so enjoyable, if you wouldn't press yourself to that grind. It's not really the game, it's your expectation which is causing this.

Garethjolnir

Tigertron wrote: »

My XP gain has quadrupled. I did writs on 9 chars all with a 50% scroll and got one CP. that means 1cp per 30min of grinding. It will go fast.
I’m cp 1025.

That's not bad at all. Thanks for you info, insightful.

LarsS

I am at 1690, before the patch I needed 1 333 000 xp for next cp now I need 425 000 xp so its much faster.

Varangian_af_Scaniae

LarsS wrote: »

I am at 1690, before the patch I needed 1 333 000 xp for next cp now I need 425 000 xp so its much faster.

I'm about 1300, went from 1 million down to 355k xp per CP level. It seems people just want to complain. I wonder if all you complainers are locked in/down because of your tyrannical governments? Are you feeling depression? A few years ago I was deeply depressed and all I did was complain even about stuff that's not worth discussing.

KovalskyNestor

As someone who completed almost everything in PVE, this patch made me think how to get cp without that "grind" feel.
Looks like zos really wants us to meet every skeleton in skyreach.

Bradyfjord

My definition of brutal is unskilled laborers at any dock. They get to stand under vessels and remove barnacles from the hulls. It's done over long hours, and can be very dangerous.