Why the hate against pve tank mains?

etchedpixels

BlueRaven wrote: »

Artemis_X_ wrote: »

Sadly I suspect there is so little feedback on the forums from tanks, not because they like this patch, but because there just are so few left.

There was feedback, generally of the “let’s make life even worse for tanks” variety.

Specifically they wanted heavy armor to also do less damage on top of everything else.

That aspect makes sense as does the sneak one. The problems are the speed debuffs and the overkill dodge changes. Those also sort of make real world sense but they ruin dungeon play.

If you are a tank then (at least on PC - console is going to be horrible) you use dressing room. On my Warden tank I press one button and my skills and gear change. I'm now wearing pure medium proc sets. With the warden buffs kept up I'm doing real world overland 12-15K single target (no change) and up to 50K on trash packs (again seems about the same). I could probably boost that with the update because the extra health means I could drop the tank health a little bit easily. That's a tank with a whopping 18 stamina venomous smite, defiler and valkyn skoria - which is probahbly quite a poor choice of helm.

In this game as the quote goes - "Clothes maketh the man"

BlueRaven

etchedpixels wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Artemis_X_ wrote: »

Sadly I suspect there is so little feedback on the forums from tanks, not because they like this patch, but because there just are so few left.

There was feedback, generally of the “let’s make life even worse for tanks” variety.

Specifically they wanted heavy armor to also do less damage on top of everything else.

That aspect makes sense as does the sneak one. The problems are the speed debuffs and the overkill dodge changes. Those also sort of make real world sense but they ruin dungeon play.

If you are a tank then (at least on PC - console is going to be horrible) you use dressing room. On my Warden tank I press one button and my skills and gear change. I'm now wearing pure medium proc sets. With the warden buffs kept up I'm doing real world overland 12-15K single target (no change) and up to 50K on trash packs (again seems about the same). I could probably boost that with the update because the extra health means I could drop the tank health a little bit easily. That's a tank with a whopping 18 stamina venomous smite, defiler and valkyn skoria - which is probahbly quite a poor choice of helm.

In this game as the quote goes - "Clothes maketh the man"

No it does not make sense.
Dps needs one set of gear, but tanks need a variety? Why is making life difficult for tanks an acceptable answer. Tanks need to get stuff done outside of group content. Asking them to completely change their character load out each time is bad game play.

Ceejengine

I dont mind the changes. I enjoy the new CP system. I actively look forward to gaining new CP points. I feel the new system creates tangible improvements I can immediate see and feel.

I think the run speed penalty on heavy armor is more a hindrance to the rest of my team in pve than anything though. It doesn't create any dynamic events or tactical decisions.

If I sprint with everyone else to the boss, I'm the last to arrive and I'm at half stamina. If we want to go into a boss at 100% we have to stand around while I regen. It consistently takes the gusto out of my friends and I.

Personally, I think that is the only penalty I'd like to see being reconsidered for outright removal. Maybe have it so while a member of your party is in combat (or amber of your faction within x meters) then your speed is reduced. Outside of combat its just goofy and annoying.

I also noticed that my resistances are down across the board on all 4 of my tanks, and by increasing the magic damage I take, I'm very quickly shredded in battlegrounds by casters, which I believe are the most prominent builds.

That shoehorns me into using the Lady, which is fine, but I sacrifice a lot of damage to be able to survive and slow others down while my team succeeds, and now I feel as though that role that I enjoyed filling has closed permanently.

I personally find it weird that tank armor increases damage suffered, but I do understand the rock-paper-scissors style you're going for.

My major issue is that magic shreds me, and makes are at a range, and I move slower and require more resources to sprint.

Again, if you drop the move speed penalty (another idea is just make it so while wearing heavy armor, bonus movement speed is reduced instead of base sprint speed, ie Expedition grants 1% less per heavy piece), then it probably wouldn't be such a hard counter.

I do understand the need to remove immortal tanks for pvp because it is a nightmare to play against, but I believe that the increase in magic damage suffered

Majkiy wrote: »

Let me give you a feedback as a main tank who have several trifectas in dungeons and few HMs in trials.

The new CP is a bomb. Ton more HP, 75% damage mitigation in block and more stam/mag/health regen. I am like 1120 CP, so nowhere near to optimal CP optimalization, but even that I didn't had a single problem with resources. I usually wear sets to buff my DDs. So for example in dungeons with my group of friends I use yolnak, now the new behemoth monster set and galenwe if with healer. Olorime + vateshran void bash if 3DDs. In trials our group uses now the new Behemoth, Yolnak, Worm/Galenwe. Possibly going to try the Assault/Yolank + MK.

In dungeons I had zero problem with sustain even on 3dds, so zero support for a tank.

Instead of a tri-stat food now I use two-stat food (magicka + stamina, no regen) and still no issues. If you have any issue, you can use stam+ stam regen kind of food I guess (you won't regen any stam in block tho).

Anyway, I am happy with the changes to the tank. I don't feel useless or like I am dying all the time to the sustain or so. To add I am playing Nord and DK. Nord has been nerfed with the resistances and even after that I am at cap with spell resist and around 28-29k on physical resist. With the buff of course.

So in my opinion I don't think tanks should struggle nor there is a hate towards tanks from ZOS. I think that tanks now are in better place than before Markarth.

If I should think of one bad reason I might agree that the block/dodge cost is pretty high, yes, but new CPs make it better. With the free roll every 30s and some block/dodge stam cost reduce.

So don't immediately assume there is a hate towards tanks if you didn't even try to make it work or set up your CPs correctly. If you are not a good tank to begin with than that is a problem too, if you didn't tank enough content to know exactly, what your character needs or how things work. As a tank you have to HA a lot to regen stam, usually one after every enemy HA.

I am happy with the changes.

I share your sentiment. My biggest complaint is that I'm the last one there when sprinting to the next boss in a dungeon.

BXR_Lonestar

Kurat wrote: »

You can thank pvp cry threads about unkillable tanks for this.

Nothings wrong with unkillable tanks in PVP though. I play PVP 1-2x a week pretty regularly and I can say I really don't care if a guy is unkillable. What I care about is the unkillable guy being able to ALSO do damage. This could easily have been addressed by having heavy armor wearers incur a global damage penalty through battle spirit.

AyaDark

Ceejengine wrote: »

I dont mind the changes. I enjoy the new CP system. I actively look forward to gaining new CP points. I feel the new system creates tangible improvements I can immediate see and feel.

I think the run speed penalty on heavy armor is more a hindrance to the rest of my team in pve than anything though. It doesn't create any dynamic events or tactical decisions.

If I sprint with everyone else to the boss, I'm the last to arrive and I'm at half stamina. If we want to go into a boss at 100% we have to stand around while I regen. It consistently takes the gusto out of my friends and I.

Personally, I think that is the only penalty I'd like to see being reconsidered for outright removal. Maybe have it so while a member of your party is in combat (or amber of your faction within x meters) then your speed is reduced. Outside of combat its just goofy and annoying.

I also noticed that my resistances are down across the board on all 4 of my tanks, and by increasing the magic damage I take, I'm very quickly shredded in battlegrounds by casters, which I believe are the most prominent builds.

That shoehorns me into using the Lady, which is fine, but I sacrifice a lot of damage to be able to survive and slow others down while my team succeeds, and now I feel as though that role that I enjoyed filling has closed permanently.

I personally find it weird that tank armor increases damage suffered, but I do understand the rock-paper-scissors style you're going for.

My major issue is that magic shreds me, and makes are at a range, and I move slower and require more resources to sprint.

Again, if you drop the move speed penalty (another idea is just make it so while wearing heavy armor, bonus movement speed is reduced instead of base sprint speed, ie Expedition grants 1% less per heavy piece), then it probably wouldn't be such a hard counter.

I do understand the need to remove immortal tanks for pvp because it is a nightmare to play against, but I believe that the increase in magic damage suffered

Majkiy wrote: »

Let me give you a feedback as a main tank who have several trifectas in dungeons and few HMs in trials.

The new CP is a bomb. Ton more HP, 75% damage mitigation in block and more stam/mag/health regen. I am like 1120 CP, so nowhere near to optimal CP optimalization, but even that I didn't had a single problem with resources. I usually wear sets to buff my DDs. So for example in dungeons with my group of friends I use yolnak, now the new behemoth monster set and galenwe if with healer. Olorime + vateshran void bash if 3DDs. In trials our group uses now the new Behemoth, Yolnak, Worm/Galenwe. Possibly going to try the Assault/Yolank + MK.

In dungeons I had zero problem with sustain even on 3dds, so zero support for a tank.

Instead of a tri-stat food now I use two-stat food (magicka + stamina, no regen) and still no issues. If you have any issue, you can use stam+ stam regen kind of food I guess (you won't regen any stam in block tho).

Anyway, I am happy with the changes to the tank. I don't feel useless or like I am dying all the time to the sustain or so. To add I am playing Nord and DK. Nord has been nerfed with the resistances and even after that I am at cap with spell resist and around 28-29k on physical resist. With the buff of course.

So in my opinion I don't think tanks should struggle nor there is a hate towards tanks from ZOS. I think that tanks now are in better place than before Markarth.

If I should think of one bad reason I might agree that the block/dodge cost is pretty high, yes, but new CPs make it better. With the free roll every 30s and some block/dodge stam cost reduce.

So don't immediately assume there is a hate towards tanks if you didn't even try to make it work or set up your CPs correctly. If you are not a good tank to begin with than that is a problem too, if you didn't tank enough content to know exactly, what your character needs or how things work. As a tank you have to HA a lot to regen stam, usually one after every enemy HA.

I am happy with the changes.

I share your sentiment. My biggest complaint is that I'm the last one there when sprinting to the next boss in a dungeon.

Green run passive is good.
For no combat run.

ForzaRammer

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

Kurat wrote: »

You can thank pvp cry threads about unkillable tanks for this.

Nothings wrong with unkillable tanks in PVP though. I play PVP 1-2x a week pretty regularly and I can say I really don't care if a guy is unkillable. What I care about is the unkillable guy being able to ALSO do damage. This could easily have been addressed by having heavy armor wearers incur a global damage penalty through battle spirit.

I think that can work

Moonsorrow

Experienced tanks sustain and survive just fine this update.

Also, if not know how to live with stam management yet, use the easy solution of running SnB/Ice staff back bar so you can block there when needs (and regain stam) with magicka cost. Juggle between the bars and you'll be fine.

CipherNine

ZOS can easily balance PvP and PvE separately. They have Battle Spirit feature to do so but they just ignore it. They are for some reason have a huge hard-on for wanted to balance everything together. which will never work

JanTanhide

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Because this game and its community cater to DPS exclusively. That's why tanks aren't even allowed to wear the sets that are designed for them, because we are just expected to roll the sets that DPS can't be bothered to.

I Tank and I wear the gear I want to use. I could care less about Alkosh, Ebon and all the other sets that buff players. I'm there to stay alive and Tank. And I am S&B. Not using a staff because someone says I have to. Not happening.

amm7sb14_ESO

Moonsorrow wrote: »

Experienced tanks sustain and survive just fine this update.

Also, if not know how to live with stam management yet, use the easy solution of running SnB/Ice staff back bar so you can block there when needs (and regain stam) with magicka cost. Juggle between the bars and you'll be fine.

I think high level tanks will be able to manage just fine, but those early to mid CP tanks are going to struggle. It is ridiculous that tanks require a not insignificant CP investment to overcome the senseless penalties that they are given by wearing the armor they need to do the job.

Can tanking still be done effectively? Well, I'm CP804, and I had a (mostly) successful tanking run in a blind vet Cauldron last night. So yea, we aren't going to become helpless sitting ducks. But I also have a pretty high CP investment to overcome the needless setbacks. A younger tank with less CP won't be able to overcome those with point investment, and I can foresee younger tanks having a much harder go of it.

AMeanOne

Pve players are so funny. You can never admit nerfs sometimes happen because of pve, it's only ever pvps fault. I'm sure zos has loved that tanks can completely self sustain HM dungeons with no healer needed for quite a long time now. Just because you the player doesn't see that as a problem doesn't mean the devs don't.

Neiska

AMeanOne wrote: »

Pve players are so funny. You can never admit nerfs sometimes happen because of pve, it's only ever pvps fault. I'm sure zos has loved that tanks can completely self sustain HM dungeons with no healer needed for quite a long time now. Just because you the player doesn't see that as a problem doesn't mean the devs don't.

By that context, I could say the same about every pvp gripe. "Why was my dps nerfed?!?" "Well, maybe too much damage in PVP, give the healers a reason to spend mana."

And I am sure zos also loves dungeons where the tank is only required for the cue, which the majority of my dungeons experiences have been this far. So under another point of view, dps is too high mayhaps?

It can go both ways you know. And just going back in pages, I see far more complains from one side.

BlueRaven

AMeanOne wrote: »

Pve players are so funny. You can never admit nerfs sometimes happen because of pve, it's only ever pvps fault. I'm sure zos has loved that tanks can completely self sustain HM dungeons with no healer needed for quite a long time now. Just because you the player doesn't see that as a problem doesn't mean the devs don't.

If PvE needs a nerf, and PVP is well balanced, they change the dungeons and trials. This leaves PvP out of it.

If PvP is unbalanced they have to change the gear. And that involves PvE no matter what. They did not add a "detection" range nerf to heavy armor because of some trial or dungeon.

Agenericname

Neiska wrote: »

AMeanOne wrote: »

Pve players are so funny. You can never admit nerfs sometimes happen because of pve, it's only ever pvps fault. I'm sure zos has loved that tanks can completely self sustain HM dungeons with no healer needed for quite a long time now. Just because you the player doesn't see that as a problem doesn't mean the devs don't.

By that context, I could say the same about every pvp gripe. "Why was my dps nerfed?!?" "Well, maybe too much damage in PVP, give the healers a reason to spend mana."

And I am sure zos also loves dungeons where the tank is only required for the cue, which the majority of my dungeons experiences have been this far. So under another point of view, dps is too high mayhaps?

It can go both ways you know. And just going back in pages, I see far more complains from one side.

Because its easy to blame. We see more requests for nerfs from one side as opposed to the other, but it doesnt mean that ZOS acts on them. If they did, we would all have slight variations of colors in the sticks we used as weapons and jumping would cost stamina as well if they took even a significant portion of nerf requests seriously. Im almost positive there's a pool or perhaps bingo game at the office where they take bets on what the next nerf request will be.

My experiences are largely very different. I rarely find myself in a dungeon where the tank is there just to check a box. The reason why you see that, I suspect, is because they are normals? In the current model the random normals have the same bonuses in terms of xmutes. Players that could be doing vet can do normal, and why not? The rewards are much the same. Quick, easy, path of least resistance.

That has nothing to do with the patch though. The "play DPS until X CP" mentality isnt part of the patch. Its been around for a while.

Eedat

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Because this game and its community cater to DPS exclusively. That's why tanks aren't even allowed to wear the sets that are designed for them, because we are just expected to roll the sets that DPS can't be bothered to.

LOL what? DPS got hard nerfed this patch and they're being catered to? I hate to be the bearer of ba news, but PvE tanks have been overpowered for a very long time. All but the absolute hardest content in the game could be self sustained with no healer. DPS got out of hand so it got nerfed. Tanks were also out of hand so they got nerfed. I'm not even that great of a tank and it was ridiculous how much you could survive with no healer.

Both DPS and Tanks needed to be nerfed so healers weren't optional in all content besides trials. Hell even in vBRP you don't need a healer. The difference is there is no hard metric to complain about like a DPS number for tanks so they can be blatantly too strong and nobody says anything. Then people can pretend that tanks were weak and are victims.

doomette

I’m hesitant to admit this, but I fear this is all my fault. I had just decided to make my first tank in earnest, and well. Just like I made my first WW right before they were nerfed quite a bit a while back. There have been others too.
Sorry everyone. 😳

GlorphNoldorin

AMeanOne wrote: »

Pve players are so funny. You can never admit nerfs sometimes happen because of pve, it's only ever pvps fault. I'm sure zos has loved that tanks can completely self sustain HM dungeons with no healer needed for quite a long time now. Just because you the player doesn't see that as a problem doesn't mean the devs don't.

Such a major problem for the game, tanks being able to self sustain in pve?

There are so few tanks in the game, let alone those capable of HM dungeons....how isnt ZOS making it easier for tanks?

Good tanks can manage resources....thats how they become ....good tanks.....this is good play not a problem.

The problem is that making it hard to tank discourages people from taking up tanking, wears out and de-incentivizes those that already tank.

Better content creation is what is needed but it is easier for ZOS to nerf than create.

Sustaining without a healer is so easy for almost every dungeon especially if you go selfish. That is not the tanks fault if sets and mag glyphs are part of the game.

Yet ZOS has openly stated that heavy armour in pvp is a concern. I have never heard them state that tanking a HM dungeon with 3 dd is a concern.

NettleCarrier

Every one of my guilds is raving that this patch is pro-tank with some nice improvements.... so I'm going to go with that.

kringled_1

I'll know better how I feel about it Thursday when my group returns to vbrp. I'm sure there are plenty of people who find it easy, but I found my first (recent) clear as tank to be quite challenging on both my survival and ability to prioritize and manage adds.

kemleb17_ESO

I do not understand why it is not possible to make separate penalties for pvp zones, so that in cyrodil, battlefields and the imperial city, the sets work differently? Why do ZOS need to ruin the game for those who play in pve?

Luckylancer

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Because this game and its community cater to DPS exclusively. That's why tanks aren't even allowed to wear the sets that are designed for them, because we are just expected to roll the sets that DPS can't be bothered to.

Why you are not allowed to wear sets that are designed for tanks? Maybe PvE tanks are so OP, they dont need them and instead they use damage increasing sets.

Overoperforming tank meta---> we cant use our sets
Tanks nerfed---> devs hate tanks

You cant be happy no matter what devs do

ForzaRammer

Luckylancer wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Because this game and its community cater to DPS exclusively. That's why tanks aren't even allowed to wear the sets that are designed for them, because we are just expected to roll the sets that DPS can't be bothered to.

Why you are not allowed to wear sets that are designed for tanks? Maybe PvE tanks are so OP, they dont need them and instead they use damage increasing sets.

Overoperforming tank meta---> we cant use our sets
Tanks nerfed---> devs hate tanks

You cant be happy no matter what devs do

But no sets in this game lower block cost. The closest to help perma block stam sustain are some medium set, with very mediocre performance compare to say 25% block cost reduction.

the1andonlyskwex

Luckylancer wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Because this game and its community cater to DPS exclusively. That's why tanks aren't even allowed to wear the sets that are designed for them, because we are just expected to roll the sets that DPS can't be bothered to.

Why you are not allowed to wear sets that are designed for tanks? Maybe PvE tanks are so OP, they dont need them and instead they use damage increasing sets.

Overoperforming tank meta---> we cant use our sets
Tanks nerfed---> devs hate tanks

You cant be happy no matter what devs do

Pretty much this.

I'm convinced that some of the recent changes are intended to reduce the buff-bot PvE support meta. For a long time, tanks and healers have been able to build almost entirely as buffers for DPS while still being able to fulfill their actual roles as tanks and healers. The recent changes seem like an attempt to force them into more "selfish" builds.

I, for one, welcome the possibility that I'll be able to build my healers to actually heal for a change, instead of being expected to focus exclusively on group DPS buffs. Let the DPS buff themselves / each other for a change.

FrancisCrawford

ForzaRammer wrote: »

Luckylancer wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Because this game and its community cater to DPS exclusively. That's why tanks aren't even allowed to wear the sets that are designed for them, because we are just expected to roll the sets that DPS can't be bothered to.

Why you are not allowed to wear sets that are designed for tanks? Maybe PvE tanks are so OP, they dont need them and instead they use damage increasing sets.

Overoperforming tank meta---> we cant use our sets
Tanks nerfed---> devs hate tanks

You cant be happy no matter what devs do

But no sets in this game lower block cost. The closest to help perma block stam sustain are some medium set, with very mediocre performance compare to say 25% block cost reduction.

Wouldn't Meridia's Blessed have an effect sort of like that? (Intermittent periods of free dodge-everything.) Unless, of course, your big concern in a fight is attacks that can be blocked but not dodged -- how common is that?

amm7sb14_ESO

Luckylancer wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Because this game and its community cater to DPS exclusively. That's why tanks aren't even allowed to wear the sets that are designed for them, because we are just expected to roll the sets that DPS can't be bothered to.

Why you are not allowed to wear sets that are designed for tanks? Maybe PvE tanks are so OP, they dont need them and instead they use damage increasing sets.

Overoperforming tank meta---> we cant use our sets
Tanks nerfed---> devs hate tanks

You cant be happy no matter what devs do

Try taking a tank into a trial group without Alkosh / Yolna and see what happens.

Try tanking in an actual tank set, like, idk, Leeching or Grave Guardian, or Brands Of Imperium, and tell me what happens.

amm7sb14_ESO

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Luckylancer wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Because this game and its community cater to DPS exclusively. That's why tanks aren't even allowed to wear the sets that are designed for them, because we are just expected to roll the sets that DPS can't be bothered to.

Why you are not allowed to wear sets that are designed for tanks? Maybe PvE tanks are so OP, they dont need them and instead they use damage increasing sets.

Overoperforming tank meta---> we cant use our sets
Tanks nerfed---> devs hate tanks

You cant be happy no matter what devs do

Pretty much this.

I'm convinced that some of the recent changes are intended to reduce the buff-bot PvE support meta. For a long time, tanks and healers have been able to build almost entirely as buffers for DPS while still being able to fulfill their actual roles as tanks and healers. The recent changes seem like an attempt to force them into more "selfish" builds.

I, for one, welcome the possibility that I'll be able to build my healers to actually heal for a change, instead of being expected to focus exclusively on group DPS buffs. Let the DPS buff themselves / each other for a change.

If this is the outcome of the changes, then sure. But right now, with the heavy armor penalties to tanking, and the medium armor bonuses to tanking (extra block????) it seems as tho we are being railroaded into medium / tanks are being punished in favor of more DPS

Neiska

@the1andonlyskwex -

I respect your opinion, but I respectfully disagree. From a low cp viewpoint, its worse off for tanks right now. Not for damage mitigation, but for resources. My mitigation is the same, but my stamina recovery is so bad that even spamming heavy attack I still loose more than I gain. I no longer have enough resources to buff/debuff/absorb shield/block/dodge.

This is merely for group, it is far worse in solo play. I no longer have the spare stamina to drop a dot or use what offensive abilities I have to speed the process up. My armor procs do more damage than I do, as I am forced to stay 100% on the defensive seemingly at all times.

I for one, will be hanging up my sword and board. I am worse off than I was before in groups, moreso in solo play. The pug scene being what it is, the only time where it is pleasant is when grouping with guildies, and that is about it. I certainly wont be doing random dungeons any more. The bonus daily exp simply isn't worth it.

I struggle to see how this is in any way encouraging folks to roll support roles. But who knows, perhaps this was ZoS's intent, because I can't see any other valid reason. Mayhaps things are grand at the top, but at the middle and bottom, things are rough to say the least.

the1andonlyskwex

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Luckylancer wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Because this game and its community cater to DPS exclusively. That's why tanks aren't even allowed to wear the sets that are designed for them, because we are just expected to roll the sets that DPS can't be bothered to.

Why you are not allowed to wear sets that are designed for tanks? Maybe PvE tanks are so OP, they dont need them and instead they use damage increasing sets.

Overoperforming tank meta---> we cant use our sets
Tanks nerfed---> devs hate tanks

You cant be happy no matter what devs do

Pretty much this.

I'm convinced that some of the recent changes are intended to reduce the buff-bot PvE support meta. For a long time, tanks and healers have been able to build almost entirely as buffers for DPS while still being able to fulfill their actual roles as tanks and healers. The recent changes seem like an attempt to force them into more "selfish" builds.

I, for one, welcome the possibility that I'll be able to build my healers to actually heal for a change, instead of being expected to focus exclusively on group DPS buffs. Let the DPS buff themselves / each other for a change.

If this is the outcome of the changes, then sure. But right now, with the heavy armor penalties to tanking, and the medium armor bonuses to tanking (extra block????) it seems as tho we are being railroaded into medium / tanks are being punished in favor of more DPS

I agree that the new armor bonuses and penalties miss the mark.

The +/- 1% magical/martial damage taken should be on light and medium, not light and heavy; and medium should have penalties to balance out its bonuses. As-is, PvE tanks have an inexplicable weakness to magical damage, and medium armor is just overpowered.

To elaborate on the medium armor situation, in particular: If you assume the +/- 1% magical/martial damage taken bonuses and penalties cancel each other out, and just look at the rest of the bonuses (so ignoring penalties), medium has some of the best bonuses of any armor type, and yet it's the only one without additional penalities.

Edit: For PvP reasons, heavy probably does need some kind of penalty to damage taken or damage done, but that could easily be implemented as a PvP-specific penalty (e.g. "deal 2% less damage to other players for each piece equipped").

etchedpixels

Neiska wrote: »

@the1andonlyskwex -

I respect your opinion, but I respectfully disagree. From a low cp viewpoint, its worse off for tanks right now

Definitely agree. On NA I'm only CP 200 or so and the tank role is near unplayble - especially when you get a bunch of anti-social speedrunners. I'm now simply leaving group when I get a bunch who run off like loons and don't care. It seems the only way to get a tank from CP 200 to CP 600 is now about 1000 dolmens in the Alik'r (and to judge by the levels in the group I did a bunch in a lot of CP folks are dolmen grinding).

Something is horribly wrong with the balance on the tank side. At level 15-30 I can tank darkshade 1 in underpants. At level 50 CP 750 I can tank darkshade 1 in underpants. Somewhere in the middle there is a huge drop off where you can't sustain or tank it without ok gear but you don't have enough CP for the needed buffs for speed or to break free/dodge roll (Selene's for example is unplayble)

etchedpixels

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

[
I'm convinced that some of the recent changes are intended to reduce the buff-bot PvE support meta. For a long time, tanks and healers have been able to build almost entirely as buffers for DPS while still being able to fulfill their actual roles as tanks and healers. The recent changes seem like an attempt to force them into more "selfish" builds.

Seems to be totally the reverse to me. For four man dungeons at least I am getting far better results wearing light armour and spamming shields than actually wearing any tank gear. You don't need the health because of the general health boost, you don't need most of the heavy armour because you've got the shields and the extra magicka leaves tons of support resources.