ZOS, just advance the timeline, please.

hcbigdogdoghc

Most probably don't care about this but still.

Playing through the markarth prologue quest again, and hearing all these npcs talking about Septima and imperials still invading Bangkorai is honestly ridiculous. Like ZOS, seriously, I stopped them 5 years ago. Also played the Dragonhold prologue on my alt a while back, the NPCs acting as if the Valley of Blades was just attacked 2 days ago is just LOL.

Who does the decision of staying in 582 forever and pretending everything happens concurrently benefit exactly?

Players who care about the story and lore will still do the content in the correct order anyways. The current design actually make it HARDER for these players to do quests in order thanks to the game throwing all these dlc quest in their face 1 hour into the game. And hearing the NPCs talking about events as if everything is happening concurrently only make things more immersion breaking.

Player who don't care about the story don't care what year they are in, or that they are doing content out of order. If you advance the timeline they won't care or even notice.

Are we just going to be stuck in 582 until the game dies? Poor vestige probably don't even have time to sleep. Do you seriously expect players to believe that all existing and future story arcs happened within the span of a few months?

You can't do this forever. Not advancing the timeline means no continuation to existing story. We'll never get "sequels" to existing zones, only separate, self contain stories in unexplored areas. Did Bazrag decide to stay in the covenant? How's the mane doing I wonder? Did Bleakrock ever get rebuilt post the covenant attack? We will never know.

SWTOR and GW2 have been advancing the timeline since launch (by 15 years and 10 years respectively) and no one is complaining, what's stopping ESO from doing it?

theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO

What you don't buy story beats like Abnur Tharn becoming decrepit a week after the Planemeld?

SshadowSscale

You know that all of eso takes place in one year right?.... Well according to zos

Goregrinder

Today I learned ESO has a story and a timeline.

Mindcr0w

Hermaeus Mora is a squid,
Hircine wears the head of a deer,
Breaking the dragon god Akatosh
Makes all of ESO happen in one year.

hcbigdogdoghc

theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO wrote: »

What you don't buy story beats like Abnur Tharn becoming decrepit a week after the Planemeld?

Why you can't blame him, it's been one hell of a week after all with 999 big bads trying to end the world at the exact same time, by ZOS logic anyways.

We should think of the poor vestige tho, imagine having to travel all across the continent to stop the planemeld, stop the triad, do some dark brotherhood/thieves guild stuff, and raid a few dozen dungeons in a freaking week.

ectoplasmicninja

I support resolving the Planemeld situation and moving on generally in the timeline. Frame the explanatory lore around 2E 582 as a dragon break, initiated when the Vestige used the Amulet of Kings to temporarily become an avatar of Akatosh to defeat Molag Bal, that then reverberated backward to the beginning of the game as well as forward into the future chapters and DLCs.

Or not. But for the love of Talos let us move forward and acknowledge the passing of time and give meaning to the distance between "previous adventures" and "now". I know it's an MMO, but the recurring characters thing already breaks chronology for new players. Lyris is trapped in Coldharbour but also in the Fighters Guild. Sai Sahan is in the Harborage and Elsweyr at the same time. You're supposed to work with Abnur Tharn in the main quest but instead you're running around freeing dragons with him. He runs off with the Amulet of Kings and you're told he will try for years to use its power but then you meet him in Elsweyr and Dragonhold happens and yet you can go back and meet him at the Harborage.

I would like to feel the consequences of some events in the world, is where I'm going with this, and that can only happen with chronological progression.

Sju

A lot of us have already traveled pretty far into the future since Antiquity system released. When you're time is accelerated so the relic can be sent to the guild overnight, remember? I wonder if anyone even realized that before. Welp, there goes immersion for some people.

wolfbone

hcbigdogdoghc wrote: »

Most probably don't care about this but still.

Playing through the markarth prologue quest again, and hearing all these npcs talking about Septima and imperials still invading Bangkorai is honestly ridiculous. Like ZOS, seriously, I stopped them 5 years ago. Also played the Dragonhold prologue on my alt a while back, the NPCs acting as if the Valley of Blades was just attacked 2 days ago is just LOL.

Who does the decision of staying in 582 forever and pretending everything happens concurrently benefit exactly?

Players who care about the story and lore will still do the content in the correct order anyways. The current design actually make it HARDER for these players to do quests in order thanks to the game throwing all these dlc quest in their face 1 hour into the game. And hearing the NPCs talking about events as if everything is happening concurrently only make things more immersion breaking.

Player who don't care about the story don't care what year they are in, or that they are doing content out of order. If you advance the timeline they won't care or even notice.

Are we just going to be stuck in 582 until the game dies? Poor vestige probably don't even have time to sleep. Do you seriously expect players to believe that all existing and future story arcs happened within the span of a few months?

You can't do this forever. Not advancing the timeline means no continuation to existing story. We'll never get "sequels" to existing zones, only separate, self contain stories in unexplored areas. Did Bazrag decide to stay in the covenant? How's the mane doing I wonder? Did Bleakrock ever get rebuilt post the covenant attack? We will never know.

SWTOR and GW2 have been advancing the timeline since launch (by 15 years and 10 years respectively) and no one is complaining, what's stopping ESO from doing it?

it's nirn. if it's not dragons, it's the eternal hunt. you cant say living in tamriel is boring

MaisonNaevius

I was going to tell you: no. But the reality is that we do evolve over time.

The date is kept at 582 to avoid disturbing players who play in any order. Although they don't care.

On the contrary, those who are concerned with the evolution over time, we know that it is. Personally, I consider that we are in 589, next year in 590...
We see the change: behavior and health of Abnur, the imperials who take back lands on Cyrodiil, the evolution of Darien, ...

The fact of speaking about the seventh surprised me. In fact, I have the impression that it is only until recently that the developers (in their idea that we are in 582) address us spikes by reaffirming via the NPC that we are in 582 and by recalling the facts of the base game as a current time.
But this becomes inconsistent with other clearly more important aspects (disappearance of Darien, state of health of Abnur, the characters who recognize us for having accomplished such and such a thing, ...)

LostHorizon1933

... to 7E 2285 (Fallout 5)

hcbigdogdoghc

MaisonNaevius wrote: »

I was going to tell you: no. But the reality is that we do evolve over time.

The date is kept at 582 to avoid disturbing players who play in any order. Although they don't care.

On the contrary, those who are concerned with the evolution over time, we know that it is. Personally, I consider that we are in 589, next year in 590...
We see the change: behavior and health of Abnur, the imperials who take back lands on Cyrodiil, the evolution of Darien, ...

The fact of speaking about the seventh surprised me. In fact, I have the impression that it is only until recently that the developers (in their idea that we are in 582) address us spikes by reaffirming via the NPC that we are in 582 and by recalling the facts of the base game as a current time.
But this becomes inconsistent with other clearly more important aspects (disappearance of Darien, state of health of Abnur, the characters who recognize us for having accomplished such and such a thing, ...)

The current timeline is a freaking mess.

Bangkorai took place before the end of Planemeld. Ok, Bangkorai -> end of Planemeld, easy.

Elsweyr is post planemeld, judging from this ("Since the end of the Planemeld and the apparent disbanding of the Worm Cult..."). Bangkorai -> End of Planemeld -> Elsweyr, easy.

The imperials attack Bangkorai while Shelaria is recruiting for the pyre watch. Which places Unhallowed grave right before the Bangkorai questline. Unhallowed grave -> Bangkorai -> End of Planemeld -> Elsweyr

Greymoor happens after Elsweyr (NPC reference dragons in Elsweyr) and Unhallowed grave. So Unhallowed grave -> Bangkorai -> End of planemeld -> Elsweyr -> Greymoor

Markarth prologue happens DURING the Bangkorai questline because Septima is attacking Bangkorai, and AFTER Greymoor becasue Gwendis is investigating the Grey Host. So....when does Markarth prologue took place? When.....does not compute

ZOS please help me figure this out, what's the timeline? I haven't added in the rest of the DLCs and Chapters yet

SickleCider

This entire thread hurt me. 😳

Starlock

At some point, they need to come up with some sort of cannon, official timeline that ignores player agency for the sake of coherency... or handwave the entire thing away as a dragon break. Prefer the first unless some sort of plot line is developed that would directly explain and address the dragon break.

ArchMikem

To see it simply, the chronological order of content released is their chronological order in the world. Exact dates are details to be ironed out, but at least it let's us know what happens after and before what.

hcbigdogdoghc

ArchMikem wrote: »

To see it simply, the chronological order of content released is their chronological order in the world. Exact dates are details to be ironed out, but at least it let's us know what happens after and before what.

The date didn't get ironed out at all. Do the black drake villa quest, Eveli said somwthing like how the last of the longhouse emperor died 5 years ago, that happened in 2E 577.

ZOS could had wrote the dialogue as "all these years ago" to keep the date ambiguous, but they didn't, they made it clear that we are still in 582 for no reason.

Tensar

this game is a mess, the lore here dosn't make sense

renne

hcbigdogdoghc wrote: »

Poor vestige probably don't even have time to sleep.

Poor vestige never has time to sleep anyway.

Me going into a new area: "Yes, it is I, literally the only person in the entirety of Tamriel who can solve any of your problems."

zaria

Starlock wrote: »

At some point, they need to come up with some sort of cannon, official timeline that ignores player agency for the sake of coherency... or handwave the entire thing away as a dragon break. Prefer the first unless some sort of plot line is developed that would directly explain and address the dragon break.

It was, you did your faction zones, then Cadwind silver and gold, then Craglorn who is set just after the end of planemeld.

With one Tamriel you can do stuff in any order. With random dungeons you can obviously not select the order.
However the Frostvault and Depths of Malatar dungeons takes place before the Elsweyr prologue who takes place before Elsweyr. Now this makes sense if you did the two dungeons, then did the prologue there Tharn tells that you recover the tablets who was cool, the also comment that you to had been in Wormroot Depths if you did the main quest part there.
It makes prefect sense.

However some creating an character after Elsweyr and before Skyrim will be dumped right into the start of the Elsweyr main quest who they do, then move on to the main quest, then perhaps the prologue and then the dungeons.

In short giving players the option to do anything at any time breaks any timeline. Worse is the start at latest chapter crashes it and you can not select the order to play random dungeons
It works out for veteran players on main not for others.

amm7sb14_ESO

hcbigdogdoghc wrote: »

immersion breaking

In an MMO???

Hell, you say!

barney2525

OK

There is one consistent thing I notice about every post.

No one offers any real Solution to the problem.

And why? Because it's a Game. It's Not real life. And because they Do add content, it is impossible to have a set Lore that Everyone understands. And being a continuous, ongoing game, when they add content, Lore is going to get scued. They gave us an open world game, where you can literally play ' as you want to ' and start wherever you want. And that means that Everyone will NOT start at the same spot and follow a linear path. And they add more content and you can actually Begin a new character there, in the new DLC area.

Why? Because it's bad business to tell a new player, who just joined when Summerset came out that their character can Not play Summerset until they complete The Mainline quest, the Fighters Guild, the Mages Guild, the Alliance Questline, Wrothgar, and Morrowind. Then, and only then, we can let them start Summerset - so we can keep the Lore and timeline intact.

Every piece of added content scues the Lore and the timeline.

So the Player's mindset - IMHO - should be: The is My character's story. I will make it what I can. If it doesn't follow 'official Tamriel canon' ... so be it. If the NPC says something that does not seem appropriate - It's a Game. It's Not real life. It doesn't bother me. Heck, I had to sit through my vampire character having a vampire NPC explain to me all about vampires, without having an option to say ' Hey, numnuts, I know this already '.

Can't we just accept that it's a game that continues to add content, and they do the best they can?

Just wondering.

TheUndeadAmulet

I mean, this is the Elder Scrolls. ZOS can say that the game takes place in 582, but my personal headcannon says all these events are taking place over a number of years. Who cares if the game says otherwise?

hcbigdogdoghc

barney2525 wrote: »

OK

There is one consistent thing I notice about every post.

No one offers any real Solution to the problem.

And why? Because it's a Game. It's Not real life. And because they Do add content, it is impossible to have a set Lore that Everyone understands. And being a continuous, ongoing game, when they add content, Lore is going to get scued. They gave us an open world game, where you can literally play ' as you want to ' and start wherever you want. And that means that Everyone will NOT start at the same spot and follow a linear path. And they add more content and you can actually Begin a new character there, in the new DLC area.

Why? Because it's bad business to tell a new player, who just joined when Summerset came out that their character can Not play Summerset until they complete The Mainline quest, the Fighters Guild, the Mages Guild, the Alliance Questline, Wrothgar, and Morrowind. Then, and only then, we can let them start Summerset - so we can keep the Lore and timeline intact.

Every piece of added content scues the Lore and the timeline.

So the Player's mindset - IMHO - should be: The is My character's story. I will make it what I can. If it doesn't follow 'official Tamriel canon' ... so be it. If the NPC says something that does not seem appropriate - It's a Game. It's Not real life. It doesn't bother me. Heck, I had to sit through my vampire character having a vampire NPC explain to me all about vampires, without having an option to say ' Hey, numnuts, I know this already '.

Can't we just accept that it's a game that continues to add content, and they do the best they can?

Just wondering.

The solution is called SWTOR and GW2

Snowstrider

I would love to have the world change like GW2

amm7sb14_ESO

barney2525 wrote: »

So the Player's mindset - IMHO - should be: The is My character's story. I will make it what I can. If it doesn't follow 'official Tamriel canon' ... so be it. If the NPC says something that does not seem appropriate - It's a Game. It's Not real life. It doesn't bother me. Heck, I had to sit through my vampire character having a vampire NPC explain to me all about vampires, without having an option to say ' Hey, numnuts, I know this already '.

Can't we just accept that it's a game that continues to add content, and they do the best they can?

Just wondering.

That's basically what I'm doing. Each of my characters is basically "responsible" in my own personal head canon for one of the chapters. I have my Vestige (Wood Elf Nightblade), I have my Elsweyr character (my main, a Breton Necro tank), I have my Morrowind character (Wood Elf Warden), a Summerset character (Dark Elf Sorcerer), 2 Greymoor characters who are attached to each other in my own head canon (a High Elf and an Argonian necro), and I will likely have a Blackwood character as well... tho I'm not sure what, as there isn't really much else I want to play.

These characters are all tied to each other in my own head canon, so when a character that never did the main quest is approached by Lyris Titanborn, it's because the connection my characters all have to each other, so Lyris knows all of them.

It might be a little off from "official" canon, but it works well enough.

Araneae6537

I would be very happy with dialogue, area instances, character locations and quest availability updating for each player. There are many instances of this now, where dialogue changes to reflect requests done and areas have different instance versions. I would like the game to start with the main story quest unless and until the player elects to start a DLC and that would update character locations, quests you could do, etc.

But I don’t like the idea of forcing everyone forward, story done or not. GW2 did this once and it creates a great disconnect between the main story and starting the next content. In a way, it now both continues to move forward and doesn’t, as each zone is stuck in it’s particular place and time which itself is rather immersion breaking.

TL;DR Let everyone start at the beginning but then move forward with zones, characters, dialogue, etc. updating as characters complete them.

theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO

The date didn't get ironed out at all. Do the black drake villa quest, Eveli said somwthing like how the last of the longhouse emperor died 5 years ago, that happened in 2E 577.

I just saw this and it made me mad all over again.

theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO

Actually, let's revisit the official stance:
Q:

As I've learned recently, it seems all of the events in the game from Orsinium to Elsweyr occur in 2E 583. But according to lore in-game, the event in which Euraxia Tharn conquered Rimmen was known as the Frostfall Coup, implying that it happened in the month of Frostfall. Multiple character claim Euraxia conquered Rimmen 6 years prior to the events of Elsweyr, and the Coup happened in 2E 576. That would, in a literal sense, place the current year in 582, which doesn't make sense with information that's already been established. Does this mean that the events of Elsweyr occur prior to Frostfall of 583, which is why they're still saying the Coup happened 6 years prior?

And lastly, are there any plans to officially move the timeline forward into 2E 584?

A:

So, time in-game is personal to you. Given that multiple players can play content in any order, we've resisted the push to advance to 2E 583. For that reason, we assume that all events of ESO take place in 2E 582.

This answer remains completely incompatible with the information we are getting in-game. NPCs constantly reference the timeline. Unless there has been some kind of mass disassociation event, everything is taking place within a year of the base game. In-game time is in no way "personal to the player".

hcbigdogdoghc

theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO wrote: »

Actually, let's revisit the official stance:
Q:

As I've learned recently, it seems all of the events in the game from Orsinium to Elsweyr occur in 2E 583. But according to lore in-game, the event in which Euraxia Tharn conquered Rimmen was known as the Frostfall Coup, implying that it happened in the month of Frostfall. Multiple character claim Euraxia conquered Rimmen 6 years prior to the events of Elsweyr, and the Coup happened in 2E 576. That would, in a literal sense, place the current year in 582, which doesn't make sense with information that's already been established. Does this mean that the events of Elsweyr occur prior to Frostfall of 583, which is why they're still saying the Coup happened 6 years prior?

And lastly, are there any plans to officially move the timeline forward into 2E 584?

A:

So, time in-game is personal to you. Given that multiple players can play content in any order, we've resisted the push to advance to 2E 583. For that reason, we assume that all events of ESO take place in 2E 582.

This answer remains completely incompatible with the information we are getting in-game. NPCs constantly reference the timeline. Unless there has been some kind of mass disassociation event, everything is taking place within a year of the base game. In-game time is in no way "personal to the player".

What they are saying is that they are afraid to move on with the timeline because they don't want to alienate and confuse players.

But idk why they don't get it, players that cared will still want to do everything in order anyways, forcing players to start in the latest chapter and throwing prologue quests in starting cities are what's confusing story focused players. That's not to mention about all the recurring NPCs, people playing out of order will still get confused, like seriously what's the point?

Saying everything, the entire base game, all zone DLCs, all dungeon DLCS, all chapters, and ALL future content took place within A YEAR seriously causes problems in the lore.

Is Tamriel the size of Hawaii? Because this is the only way the story can make sense, since they deny that we are in a dragon break.

Alurria

Maybe we are really in oblivion and it's all a dedriaic dream and not the real Nirn😂

doesurmindglow

Lol it's not a big thing obvi but I actually agree.

The timeline should advance chronologically though quest releases (ie. the events of the Morrowind and Elsweyr questlines occur after the events of the base game, Craglorn, and Imperial City, but before Greymoor) and could span many years; ie. it's fine for some quests to be 50, 100, or even a few hundred years after prior questlines, where character lifespans support that.

It will lead to some awkwardness for players that do quests out of order (ZOS's excuse for keeping everything in 2E582), but it's honestly no more immersion-breaking at this point than trying to wrap your head around the notion of all these huge historical events occurring in a single year with thousands of years of relatively uneventful timeline on either side.

Or just make it a Dragon break and call it done.