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CP 2.0 FAQ

  • SgtNuttzmeg
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    @ZOS_SamL I would highly recommend discussing these points with the class reps, some of them sound out of touch. We understand that it will take a while to figure out the balance after a change like this but a lot of these issues could be addressed this patch if you listen to their feedback.
    Edited by SgtNuttzmeg on March 3, 2021 9:45PM
    Legions of Mordor Core

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  • Beardimus
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    @ZOS_SamL I would highly recommend discussing these points with the class reps, some of them sound out of touch. We understand that it will take a while to figure out the balance after a change like this but a lot of these issues could be addressed this patch if you listen to their feedback.

    Is the class Rep program still running? Thought that went dormant a long time ago.

    Who's in it now?
    When do they meet / discuss things?

    Ty
    Xbox One | EU | EP
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    Emperor of Sotha Sil 02-2018 & Sheogorath 05-2019
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  • renne
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    The DPS thing everyone else has covered, I want to bring up the way ZoS is completely ignoring the massive QoL nerf to consoles with the green tree and requiring a bunch of slottables for every day activities.

    There's already an addon for PC that automatically swaps your slottables when you pick flowers or a chest or deconstruct or anything like that and then once you're done sets your slottables back to where they were. Us on console? We have to do ALL of it manually. It's an unnecessarily massive amount of micromanagement for the green tree just to do every day activities.

    I get why the red and blue tree has slottables, no issue there. But the fact you (ZoS) just don't seem to care at all about quality of life on consoles for the green tree, is baffling and infuriating, because all it is, is making us do busywork for the sake of doing busywork.
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  • olsborg
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    ZOS_SamL wrote: »
    CP 2.0 FAQ



    3. There have been concerns about players having very high HP and HP regen with the new CP system… How does CP2.0 balance this?
    Back in Update 28 we reached better balance with Majors and Minors, which reduced the total amount of Healing obtained from Major and Minor Mending + Vitality. We've also recently reduced Major and Minor Recovery related bonuses, including Fortitude, which should help take some of the edge off Health Recovery. We're also investigating leveraging Battle Spirit for future adjustments to Health Recovery as well, if need be.

    Why not just bring back softcaps again for hpregen, that way ppl who use a "healthy" hpregen stat in their build, say around 2k wont be affected and those that now stack it up to 4 or 5k are the ones that is affected. If you blanket nerf HPregen you will basicly make it so it wont be worth it unless you go ALL into that stat for your entire build.

    PC EU
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  • Tommy_The_Gun
    Tommy_The_Gun
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    ZOS_SamL wrote: »
    Another revision to #3 to be more clear:

    3. There have been concerns about players having very high HP and HP regen with the new CP system… How does CP2.0 balance this?
    Back in Update 28 we reached better balance with Majors and Minors, which reduced the total amount of Healing obtained from Major and Minor Mending + Vitality. We've also recently reduced Major and Minor Recovery related bonuses, including Fortitude, which should help take some of the edge off Health Recovery. We're also investigating leveraging Battle Spirit for future adjustments to Health Recovery as well, if need be.
    @ZOS_SamL
    Big part of the reason why people tend to go for high health, health regen and resistances is because of dmg dealing proc sets providing way too much "free" dmg. Especially when paired with Malacath's Band of Brutality. Players just go full tank build with 2 or 3 proc sets and they can still dish out way more dmg than they should be able to on a very tanky build.

    I think all players want to have fun in a "balanced" game, but addressing health stacking builds with high HP regen and resistances in a vacuum, without addressing dmg dealing proc sets is imho a mistake.

    There is nothing wrong if some one is tanky (hard to kill). What is wrong imho however is if a player like that has a lot of pressure dmg on top of being hard to kill.
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  • Tannus15
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    ZOS_SamL wrote: »
    CP 2.0 FAQ


    5. Total DPS output seems lower in CP2.0. What’s the reasoning for this? Will tanks/healers get more utility in CP2.0?

    The overall goal was to reduce the power of high end damage and efficiency by 15-20% with CP 2.0, as there is a significant delta in power between many players. However, due to the penetration bug we saw on LIVE and PTS, we didn't fully reach that goal, and will continue investigating solutions, such as potentially reducing passive power from the CP system further, as well as looking into more outlying problems.
    For healers, we recognize that the healing tree is limited right now. We do have plans to try and expand the healing tree further in terms of slottable nodes. (see #7)
    For tanks, no large changes from CP1.0 to CP2.0 at this time.

    like a few other people point 5 is a concern to me as an end game trials player.

    Are you talking about high end damage from CP or over all?
    If it's overall, then are you going to be looking at the more recent content where it's balanced around the current power of high end damage?

    It's also worth noting that reducing damage doesn't only affect the "high end" when you are taking away % values. Everyone's damage is reduced by the same percentage.

    I actually can't see a way for you to address the "power delta" when this is essentially your problem:

    unknown.png

    This is the raw casts per minute for a trial I did the other day. Can you guess who is doing more dps and who is doing less dps? The primary reason people do less dps is they are literally doing less stuff. Less skills, less light attacks, less everything. You can nerf or buff whatever you want, but you can't make people do more stuff per minute and because that's the way the game works, there will always be a large difference between high dps and low dps.
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  • twev
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    silvereyes wrote: »
    ZOS_SamL wrote: »
    The majority of the player-base right now sits around CP 410.
    To anyone at CP 410 today, be advised that if your goal is to max out your vertical progression at CP 1800, similar to reaching CP 810 on live today, your goalpost just got over twice as far away.
    aGfSPps.png
    However, for anyone who mainly plays PVE content, I would recommend setting CP 1200 as your goal, not CP 1800. That will get you most of what you need from CP to be as effective at your role as you can for as little XP as possible, and the amount of XP required to reach that mark is somewhat close to what CP 810 costs on live today (about 21m XP more, when starting from CP 410).

    CP 1800 is nice to top off a little bit of crit or extra off-resources, some small mitigation and combat ability cost reduction (e.g. sprint, dodge roll, block). However, from a practical standpoint, the incremental combat gains from those extra CP probably aren't worth grinding over.

    Personally, after CP 1200, the first things I would probably invest points into would be unlocking extra active abilities for situational swapping (e.g. AOE for trash vs direct damage for bosses), not passives. In other words, I'd switch to horizontal progression at CP 1200.

    I suspect that the majority of players 'at CP 410' is probably based on the players who quit playing around CP 410, but are considered 'players' because ESO touts they sold 19 million copies.

    I'd like to know how many of those 19 million copies sold are actually playing the game as unique log-ins over any given 60 day period.
    The problem with society these days is that no one drinks from the skulls of their enemies anymore.
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  • Shadowshire
    Shadowshire
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    ZOS_SamL wrote: »
    CP 2.0 FAQ
    Hey everyone,
    ....

    As a reminder, CP 2.0 will be on the Live Servers on March 8 for PC/Mac and on March 16 for PS4/Xbox One. Numbers are always subject to change based on feedback and Live balance.

    1. Will the CP 2.0 cap raising to 3600 mean all our CP from 1.0 will scale up? Is the experience growth in CP2.0 different from CP1.0?
    No, your CP will not scale up. However, we will be changing the experience growth scale so that players under CP 1800 will grow very quickly. Compared to CP1.0, a fresh new player would need 56% LESS experience to reach max CP cap in CP2.0 (3600). As a reminder, you don’t need to be max CP to do well!
    If we don't need max CP to do well, then why are you reducing the XP required to reach the CP cap for new players? Are you also reducing the XP required to reach the new CP cap for characters which are currently CP 810?
    ....
    Around CP 2000, there are no more passives to unlock, but you will have access to Quality of Life changes.
    Are ye daft? Quality of Life modifications to features must always be available to all players and their characters at every level of experience!! Quality of Life is not something which a player should have to earn, let alone be something that requires the player to allocate available CP to acquire instead of allocating the CP to something else.

    Frankly, I would be happier if the developers stopped cooking-up "improvements" to features until they have the time and/or skill to implement and test them without introducing yet another bug -- whether it is "cosmetic" (i.e., it just makes them look incompetent) or otherwise. Whether a change is an improvement is usually debatable, but what matters the most is whether it works as expected without breaking another feature that has been flawless since the end of the public beta-test.

    When there are no more passives to unlock, then additional CP should be applied to "slottables". When all of the passives and "slottables" are maxed, the player's goal with regard to Champion Points has been reached, has it not?

    Of course, there should not be any "leftover" Champion Points after a player has allocated the maximum amounts of CP to all of the available passives and "slottables" in the Champion Point UI.

    On the other hand, it seems reasonable that any character could be inhibited by the current CP cap, which prevents allocating CP to each and every star in each and every constellation. So choices must be made that implicitly exclude others.

    However, beware of encouraging a player to choose one or more stars in a designer's hidden preference for them instead of other stars. Another risk is requiring too many CP to be allocated to a star in order to obtain a significant benefit from it, relative to the number of CP needed to obtain a significant benefit from another star(s). It's easier to make a star too expensive compared to the risk of making it too cheap.
    An 810 on CP1.0 will feel just as strong walking into CP2.0.
    Is that a promise? After reading this entire FAQ and the points which have been edited, I do have my doubts. :neutral:

    First of all, there is a constant and evident tension between design for PvP and design for PvE with regard to Champion Points -- as there has always been in almost every conflict/competition feature of TESO as well as in World of Warcraft. For example, players who choose to create a character(s) that have high Health Points and Health Regeneration may be a "problem" in PvP for those who want to kill such enemy characters, of course.

    But higher HP and HP Regeneration are virtually necessary for any character who wants to fight Dragons in Elsweyr -- especially when the number of available participants is low and healers who participate are few. The Harrowstorms in Western Skyrim are another example, although I don't have nearly as much experience with them as with Dragons.
    ZOS_SamL wrote: »
    2. If the current meta in CP1.0 is for a player to be around CP 300+ to complete a competitive veteran trial, what is the equivalent CP that players should try to “hit” for CP2.0? Is any of the dungeon content harder to reflect the higher CP2.0 cap?
    ....
    If you’re at CP1.0 810, you should be able to do all of the exact same content with CP2.0.
    (1) My characters which are Level 50 CP 810 are ordinarily able to solo all Delves, Public Dungeons, and Dolmens with little chance of being killed. Although, contingencies might occur which can be fatal. That is why "resurrections" are an essential feature of the game.

    (2) I don't have enough experience yet with Harrowstorms to know whether a solo Level 50 CP 810 character can ordinarily win.

    (3) Regardless of which character I choose to play, I will need at least one other player character, preferably at Level 50, to defeat a World Boss.

    (4) Fighting Dragons apparently requires at least 4 or 5 Level 50 CP 810 characters or their equivalent, to be confident of winning. Dragons in Southern Elsweyr are more deadly than the ones in Northern Elsweyr, but -- as far as I know -- they have the same initial Health.

    (5) On occasion, one of my Level 50 CP 810 characters has succeeded in completing a 4-Player Dungeon solo, usually after being killed and resurrected numerous times. So it takes a lot of time and effort, and ordinarily I do not bother. Regardless, in many 4-Player dungeons, the chances of solo success are evidently slim and none.

    That said, there are several 4-Player dungeons which I don't choose to enter even in a group with 3 other characters. Suffice it say, they have rather gimmicky mechanics, such as picking the strongest DPS character and ensuring that it never has much opportunity to do any DPS.

    Learning by trial-and-error "experience" is not my preference -- at least I need reliable and pertinent data to analyze. "Target is immune" is often displayed just before a boss, add or other NPC adversary dies. Immune to what?
    ZOS_SamL wrote: »
    3. There have been concerns about players having very high HP and HP regen with the new CP system… How does CP2.0 balance this?
    Back in Update 28 we reached better balance with Majors and Minors, which reduced the total amount of Healing obtained from Major and Minor Mending + Vitality. We've also recently reduced Major and Minor Recovery related bonuses, including Fortitude, which should help take some of the edge off Health Recovery. We're also investigating leveraging Battle Spirit for future adjustments to Health Recovery as well, if need be.
    Eh? I defer to the many replies which have been posted about this "issue". Recall also my remarks in paragraph (5) above in reply to Question 2.
    ZOS_SamL wrote: »
    4. How will you combat the gap between low CP and high CP players?
    In CP 2.0, you will have a finite number of passives but an infinite number of slottables. With this new system, we as developers can continue to build and add more active or slottables to give more choices for players. With a smaller number of passives and cool and exciting things in slottables, this should help control the power gap.
    Okay, I suppose that the "gap" between low CP and high CP characters is a concern of PvP. Regardless, what is the point of playing the game if a player whose character(s) has not earned many CPs is somehow supposed to be "equal" to a veteran player whose character(s) have earned far more CPs??
    ZOS_SamL wrote: »
    5. Total DPS output seems lower in CP2.0. What’s the reasoning for this? Will tanks/healers get more utility in CP2.0?
    The overall goal was to reduce the power of high end damage and efficiency by 15-20% with CP 2.0, as there is a significant delta in power between many players. However, due to the penetration bug we saw on LIVE and PTS, we didn't fully reach that goal, and will continue investigating solutions, such as potentially reducing passive power from the CP system further, as well as looking into more outlying problems. ....
    FWIW, I agree particularly with reply #27 posted by @Sanguinor2 and reply #36 posted by @Tannus15.

    Namely, the "significant delta in power between many players" exists primarily because there is a significant difference in the respective knowledge, skill, and experience of many players -- which is not measured only by the hours of play since opening their account. There are some features of the game about which I know little, if only because I have not had much interest in them or enough time to make the effort to learn what I need to know to use them.

    In sum, short and fine: TESO is a beautiful and elegant but complex MMORPG which, unfortunately, has some conceptual design flaws, and far too many bugs (both "cosmetic" and material) have accumulated in the software. In that regard, sometimes I wonder whether ZOS actually corrects any flaw, or any bug that is deemed "cosmetic" -- as bad as they often come to adversely affect the enjoyment and satisfaction of playing the game. After all, why do they make software that is under development available on a PTS?

    ....

    Edited by Shadowshire on March 4, 2021 5:29PM
    --- Shadowshire .......... ESO Plus on PC NA with Windows 7 Pro SP1

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  • SammiSakura
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    Starlock wrote: »
    A CP advisor? Interesting idea!

    Something I'd like to add to the table is more transparency on what "type" different abilities are considered to be. This has been a challenge since the launch of the game, and the new CP system feels like an opportunity to address that. To be clearer on what I mean here, there are CP stars that enhance the following types of abilities:
    • single target effect
    • damage over time effect
    • area of effect

    It isn't always clear which of these a particular active ability falls under. For example, the new CP tree has a star called "Swift Renewal" that boost healing over time by some percent per stage. There is also one called "Soothing Tide" that boosts area of effect heals by some percent per stage. Does this mean an ability like "Grand Healing" and morphs benefit from BOTH of these since it is an AoE and also a heal over time? Or is the skill just considered one of these? If so, which one is considered it's "main" type? Having clear labels would help reduce confusion especially for abilities that seem like they might dip into more than one star for their effects. Not sure what the best way to do this would be, but it's something to think about.

    This is a great idea, as i know this sort of language can be confusing to new players too. Actually stating "X type ability" on the tooltip or something would make slotting passives and cp etc a lot easier.
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  • RedMuse
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    So you earn CP twice as fast as now but need far more to get to the same point as you currently are. With a quick bit of mental arithmetic I need to play for another year or so to get to a similar point to where I am now and that's taking the bare minimum number given so it may be a lot longer than that. Or significantly alter my playstyle to forcibly grind out CP quicker just to get back to the place I used to be.

    Idk how to tell the devs this, but this kind of hard nerfs where the ability to get back to where you were is into a distant future tends to be extremely unpopular and make players drop out.
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  • IonicKai
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    ZOS_SamL wrote: »
    Revision to #5:


    5. Total DPS output seems lower in CP2.0. What’s the reasoning for this? Will tanks/healers get more utility in CP2.0?

    The overall goal was to reduce the power of high end damage and efficiency by 15-20% with CP 2.0, as there is a significant delta in power between many players. However, due to the penetration bug we saw on LIVE and PTS, we didn't fully reach that goal, and will continue investigating solutions, such as potentially reducing passive power from the CP system further, as well as looking into more outlying problems.

    (as an aside, thank you all for asking questions so we could return to the dev team for clarifications!)

    @ZOS_SamL I think this is the wrong way to go about reducing the damage gap. Taking away power that every player has access to is a blanket nerf that will do little to nothing to solve the damage gap. All you are doing is frustrating the veteran players who have to figure out how to work around your nerf while making those who were barely able to make it because of those buffs go back to square one (not being able to do content). As others have stated the most common reason for the gap is lack of player knowledge. Most players have no idea what skills to put together or even bother to layer skills.

    One thing that serves to hurt this gap is the lack of need for game knowledge to complete the majority of content because you can light attack or single spam skill your way through pretty much every quest and overland fight except for world bosses. That isn't a bad thing but players can feel artificially strong in this environment and believe they are more capable then what this games combat scales up to. The gap between vet and normal for dungeons is pretty absurd considering there isn't an in-between step and it's even worse for trials.

    Bridging the skill gap is going to require a lot more than blanket nerfs to combat which actually make content inaccessible to people who might have been able to do it prior to nerfs. If that's truely the goal (bridging that gap) then I would focus on advanced tutorials that teach how to layer skills mixed with perhaps creating a mode somewhere between vet and normal. The mode between vet and normal should probably include all vet mechanics (and maybe even have vet health) but keep damage enemies do closer to normal then vet so it isn't as punishing if players mess up.

    Edit: typo
    Edited by IonicKai on March 4, 2021 5:01PM
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  • Shadowshire
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    "It's the economy, dummy!"
    ZOS_SamL wrote: »
    7. Will there be more crafting trees or skill lines in the future?
    It’s possible to add more! Something we’re happy with in CP 2.0 is that the crafting tree, non-combat system will play a
    larger role in CP now, which reflects what all players participate in. This will also let us tie those aspects of the tree
    into other aspects of the game.
    We’ll also be monitoring the economy with the new crafting bonuses very closely.
    IMHO, Champion Points have always been, and should continue to be, primarily about boosting a hero's combat abilities and character Class abilities and activities in the Celestial model of the current UI.

    There simply isn't much room for stars that affect farming, collecting, crafting, or commerce -- unless you add another CP
    pool to The Warrior, The Mage, and The Thief. For example, call that pool The Merchant with constellations for:

    (1) The Forager who searches for resources and/or for items such as books and antiquities;
    (2) The Tradesman who crafts items to barter or to sell in a marketplace, or as a service in exchange for a fee;
    (3) The Achiever who seeks fame in earning titles and benefits such as the dyes for outfits, or enjoys collecting mounts,
    pets (not familiars), or what-have-you for display and/or to exchange with other collectors.

    Insofar as I don't participate on the PTS, it is unclear from the remarks quoted above whether ZOS has adopted another Archetype with constellations such as those I have described, or instead added a fourth constellation to those of The Warrior, The Mage, and The Thief, respectively.

    < pause for deep breath and relaxing exhalation >

    For what it is worth, I have not had time to investigate whether ZOS is even aware of the raging inflation in the cost of materials for crafting -- among other things, such as Motifs -- and its severely adverse impact upon playing TESO as a whole. Given the ordinary practices that players prefer for pricing items which they offer for sale, inflation is inevitable. However, there are aspects of the TESO design which encourage high prices as well as player behavior that leads to an inflationary paralysis in the marketplace.

    For example, ZOS developers have a clearly evident bias towards making some critical materials, and items which confer competitive advantages or bonuses, "rare" and/or costly. Examples include obtaining Perfect Roe by fishing, or Hakeijo rune stones or Nirncrux Trait Material by farming. Rarity and/or a significant expenditure of time and effort to acquire such a resource or item unfortunately tends to render playing TESO like shooting craps with two dice loaded to favor snake-eyes and boxcars. (For what it is worth, I do not recall that any of my characters have ever acquired that rune stone from an Enchanting Survey node. So it seems either to have been overlooked, or deliberately omitted from the table of possible outcomes.)

    Any satisfaction which a specific player experiences from obtaining rare or costly resources and items soon fades. However, the adverse consequences of such rarity, or of the expenditure of time and effort needed -- either of which will subsequently be translated into Gold Pieces -- become embedded in the experience of every other player whose play is affected by them.

    For better or for worse, there will be players whose idea of commerce is "farming" Guild Traders. They seek a specific crafting material or other common item that is offered at relatively low prices, which they buy and expect to resell at a higher price in the store of a Guild, of which they are a member. That Guild must have a Guild Trader, but not necessarily one that is in a more advantageous location than other Guild Traders. (Although, the player's intention is usually not to profit only, or even primarily, from selling the material or item to other members of the same Guild.) Whatever its merits, note that this activity is not quite the same as buying a resource which is plentiful in one location at a relatively low price, then selling it for profit in another location where it is scarce. IRL doing so is called arbitrage. (You could look it up on Wikipedia.)

    This easily becomes a problem when a player aggressively obtains as much of a crafting material (for example) as they can buy and/or farm, and hoards it to create an artificial scarcity, then floods the market with their accumulated inventory for sale at a much higher price than it has been previously sold. This is most effective when two or more collaborators soon purchase some of the material at the inflated price, thereby "gaming" add-ons such as Master Merchant, Arkadius Trade Tools, and/or Tamriel Trade Center. The inflated price is quickly adopted by almost every player who wants to sell that resource or item, especially if they are active in TESO commerce.

    "Cornering the market" might be thrilling as well as enriching for those who do it, but eventually such greedy manipulation destroys the market. (This, too, can happen IRL.)

    Be these problems as they are, I believe (after 6 years of experience) that what ZOS most likely plans to create is more
    likely to adversely affect commerce than to enhance it, irrespective of the designers' intentions -- for two reasons:

    (1) There appears to be an unspoken goal to encourage crafting characters, and their players, to be devoted solely to farming and crafting, and the associated selling of the resources or items to other players. This goal does foment imaginary "commerce". However, commercial pursuits inevitably reduce the amount of time, opportunity, and preparation to engage in any activity which involves significant conflict, i.e., either-kill-or-be-killed, take-no-prisoners-or-captives combat.

    That said, there will always be players who like to "play the Auction House" just as there will be some known as "board Warriors".

    Nonetheless, any player who allocates Skill Points and spends research time to acquire Crafting skills for a character should NOT be expected to refrain from questing, delving, and killing dungeon bosses and/or other PvE enemies, nor to refrain from fighting PvP enemies.

    (2) The fundamental fact is that every aspect of TESO tends to be framed as a competition. Period. It does not help any that devotion to acquiring Gold Pieces by any means necessary (such as cheat engines, and robot super-characters) has the potential to eventually destroy playing the game, just as a nuclear war will render Earth uninhabitable for human beings IRL.

    If ZOS wants to avoid a ruined in-game economy, then start by making resource gathering for ore, fiber, hides, wood, reagents, rune stones, and foodstuffs non-competitive -- just as Crafting Surveys have been implemented. For that matter, ZOS should add furniture-crafting materials to Crafting Survey nodes so the player's character will be modestly less dependent upon the devoted farmers, who tend to dictate the prices for such materials.


    But enough! I would rather play TESO than discuss it. Yet, if ZOS does not value the "feedback" which players take the time and effort to offer, eventually the players will begin looking for another game more to their satisfaction. How many accounts does ZOS have for players who are not currently playing the game at least twice a week?

    --- Shadowshire .......... ESO Plus on PC NA with Windows 7 Pro SP1

    nil carborundum illegitimi
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  • katorga
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    I hope there is a lot more communication and guidance on how to use CP2.0 than just this. A lot of players are going to be completely confused.

    The same goes for PTS tests, I can't count the number of players I ran into still wearing their proc sets the first week because they never got the message that they were disabled.
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  • Raegwyr
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    What even is this statement?
    You cannot lose mitigation and 15-20% damage and have the same power as before nerfs.
    You cannot nerf only high end top players damage and expect low and middle tier to be unaffected.
    810 cp today is not equal in power to 810 cp after the patch so that is another lie.

    Only thing that we can see from this statement is that you plan more nerfs to the players when in reality you should plan how to teach the floor how to play the game.
    I don't want to be toxic but do devs really understand the desires of their playerbase?
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  • Nord_Raseri
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    ZOS_SamL wrote: »
    5. The overall goal was to reduce the power of high end damage and efficiency by 15-20% with CP 2.0
    This will effectively drop me from Vet dlc trial HM viable dps to barely vet viable (dropping from 75-80k dps to 60-68k dps). Last 2 trial guilds I was in require a bare minimum of 65k for a vet dlc trial and bare minimum of 75k dps for hardmode
    ZOS_SamL wrote: »
    For tanks, no large changes from CP1.0 to CP2.0 at this time.
    I beg to differ. Loss of extra resource restore from heavy attacks and especially loss of block/break free/roll dodge cost reduction are four very large(and very bad) changes for tanks.
    Veit ég aðég hékk vindga meiði á nætr allar níu, geiri undaðr og gefinn Oðni, sjálfr sjálfum mér, á þeim meiði er manngi veit hvers hann af rótum rennr.
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  • Smaxx
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    renne wrote: »
    There's already an addon for PC that automatically swaps your slottables when you pick flowers or a chest or deconstruct or anything like that and then once you're done sets your slottables back to where they were.

    Don't think I've seen one yet. Do you remember the name or have any link at hand?
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  • Vaoh
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    I agree with all of the points players are making in this thread.

    I’m only posting here because the “15-20% damage nerf” sounds like my console Godslayer prog will be ruined. And why? No one is using exploits or broken/OP sets that need to be nerfed. We’re all playing fairly yet our progression will likely fail now (or at least be made much harder) because of out of touch developer balancing goals.

    Give new players UNDAUNTED-RELATED TUTORIALS for how to do each role efficiently. Literally the Undaunted should be made for this. Also converting CP1.0 to CP2.0 based on Level instead of total exp will hurt everyone *including* those at the bottom.... not to mention the disrespect to long-time players by deleting hundreds of million of experience from our accounts.

    It should be so obvious. Teach players how to play... do not punish players for knowing how to play.
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  • Chilly-McFreeze
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    Huh. About the dmg decrease. If you want to lower the ceiling for high CP player but not punish the low CP player, why don't you simply decrease the boost CP gives AND put some punch back into the base skills?

    As in lowering Deadly Aim to 1% per stage so it results in 5% boost instead of 10% but buffing direct dmg skills in general by a bit? So lower cp players have more damage and the stat difference between beginners and end-games wouldn't be as wide.

    As a side effect this would shift some power to skills in comparison to proc sets as well.
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  • Faded
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    Huh. About the dmg decrease. If you want to lower the ceiling for high CP player but not punish the low CP player, why don't you simply decrease the boost CP gives AND put some punch back into the base skills?

    As in lowering Deadly Aim to 1% per stage so it results in 5% boost instead of 10% but buffing direct dmg skills in general by a bit? So lower cp players have more damage and the stat difference between beginners and end-games wouldn't be as wide.

    As a side effect this would shift some power to skills in comparison to proc sets as well.

    They seem to operate on the same general philosophy as advertising: you never want people to be content with what they have.

    If class and weapons skills are strong and satisfying on their own, will people still run dungeons and arenas they don't find fun at all over and over again for gear drops? Get back on the wheel, hamster.
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  • silvereyes
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    Smaxx wrote: »
    renne wrote: »
    There's already an addon for PC that automatically swaps your slottables when you pick flowers or a chest or deconstruct or anything like that and then once you're done sets your slottables back to where they were.

    Don't think I've seen one yet. Do you remember the name or have any link at hand?
    https://github.com/CyberOnEso/JackOfAllTrades/releases

    I don't think that it's on ESOUI.com yet.
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  • HEIIMS
    HEIIMS
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    From my own experience in semi-endgame raiding and being in several large social/community raiding guilds, you can't solve the problem (if it's even a problem) by just lowering the ceiling. High skill endgamers will always outshine more casual / less experienced players, because they test and theory craft things extensively.

    A better tutorial would be a welcome change to the game, but imo it won't solve the problem of floor vs ceiling . I also believe that ZoS will never implement an in-depth tutorial on how to play say a mag dd, because they really love their whole "play how want" mantra, which works perfectly in overland, but is completely nonsensical in terms of most vet HM trials.

    Also just from observing people in said raiding guilds, they usually are very keen to improve and always ask for advice on builds/parses, but a vast majority of them don't end up reaching the real endgame simply because they don't want to comit enough time to it, which is a completely fine reason. Score pushing in this game offers absolutely nothing, the only people who actively push for world records or even just personal best scores, are the ones who simply find it fun/challenging, they race each other/other groups for sport and nothing else. A very large part of ESO community isn't interested in that (like 99%) and, again, this is totaly fine, the game has a lot of other activities to offer. So I really see absolutely no reason to try and bring less than 1% of your community down instead of trying to inspire interest in remaining 99%.

    It's like failing the smartest student in class on purpose, just so the other students don't feel as bad. You techically bring the ceiling down, but both sides gain absolutely nothing, and you've acomplished nothing.
    Edited by HEIIMS on March 4, 2021 7:54PM
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  • silvereyes
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    twev wrote: »
    silvereyes wrote: »
    ZOS_SamL wrote: »
    The majority of the player-base right now sits around CP 410.
    To anyone at CP 410 today, be advised that if your goal is to max out your vertical progression at CP 1800, similar to reaching CP 810 on live today, your goalpost just got over twice as far away.
    aGfSPps.png
    However, for anyone who mainly plays PVE content, I would recommend setting CP 1200 as your goal, not CP 1800. That will get you most of what you need from CP to be as effective at your role as you can for as little XP as possible, and the amount of XP required to reach that mark is somewhat close to what CP 810 costs on live today (about 21m XP more, when starting from CP 410).

    CP 1800 is nice to top off a little bit of crit or extra off-resources, some small mitigation and combat ability cost reduction (e.g. sprint, dodge roll, block). However, from a practical standpoint, the incremental combat gains from those extra CP probably aren't worth grinding over.

    Personally, after CP 1200, the first things I would probably invest points into would be unlocking extra active abilities for situational swapping (e.g. AOE for trash vs direct damage for bosses), not passives. In other words, I'd switch to horizontal progression at CP 1200.

    I suspect that the majority of players 'at CP 410' is probably based on the players who quit playing around CP 410, but are considered 'players' because ESO touts they sold 19 million copies.
    I'm not sure what would cause you to think that. Boosting numbers for marketing epeen is one thing. Analyzing the current player-base to assess the impact of the CP 2.0 changes is quite another.

    Matt Firor and Rich Lambert have both stated in the past that a large component of the player-base is fairly casual and shows up to play through new story quests 1-3 times a year before logging off again. It makes complete sense to me that such players would make up the "majority of the player-base", and would have CP levels well below cap.
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  • Pink_Pixie
    Pink_Pixie
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    ZOS_SamL wrote: »
    CP 2.0 FAQ

    1. Will the CP 2.0 cap raising to 3600 mean all our CP from 1.0 will scale up? Is the experience growth in CP2.0 different from CP1.0?
    No, your CP will not scale up. However, we will be changing the experience growth scale so that players under CP 1800 will grow very quickly. Compared to CP1.0, a fresh new player would need 56% LESS experience to reach max CP cap in CP2.0 (3600). As a reminder, you don’t need to be max CP to do well!

    This is by far the worst change that is coming, to write off all the experience players have earned and then suggest they regrind it. It not only shows a disregard to the player base, that have been loyal and have paid into the game in various ways. It only discourages players to invest time and money into it, it also suggests veteran players aren't valued for being loyal. Simply throwing everyone's time out of the window is bad practice and really does not encourage a favourable look on the game.

    Not every player plays numerous characters, this only hurts players that enjoy the game on a single character that can not recover lost experience. All the quests we did cannot be redone, and it only leaves us repeatables, zombie grinding, or mindless daily dungeons. Many of the other changes can be adapted to, and possibly worked through in time.
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  • LightYagami
    LightYagami
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    Just another typical ZOS style, this lovely FAQ Completely ignored CP PvP again.
    Good job.
    No improvement on Cyrodill servers -> no ESO plus renewal.
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  • spacefracking
    spacefracking
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    Well then. Back to grinding out all of my trifecta achievements before this patch drops, as I won't be able to complete them as of next week. Not rescaling experience for the new champion point curve will upset many players, and is not a good idea. Many players I spoken to before this announcement have said if they ever lost their account, they would find another game rather than regrinding the champion points, and that's exactly what this amounts to.

    I can't imagine a player who has been at 810 for years being amused at having to grind for hundreds of hours to get back to the point where they can enjoy the content that they enjoy today.

    If you're trying to get Godslayer, time to put your nose to the grindstone now, or you'll never be able to complete it!
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  • tmbrinks
    tmbrinks
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    Well then. Back to grinding out all of my trifecta achievements before this patch drops, as I won't be able to complete them as of next week. Not rescaling experience for the new champion point curve will upset many players, and is not a good idea. Many players I spoken to before this announcement have said if they ever lost their account, they would find another game rather than regrinding the champion points, and that's exactly what this amounts to.

    I can't imagine a player who has been at 810 for years being amused at having to grind for hundreds of hours to get back to the point where they can enjoy the content that they enjoy today.

    If you're trying to get Godslayer, time to put your nose to the grindstone now, or you'll never be able to complete it!

    A player who's "been at 810 for years" is likely at 1200+ and will not notice much change at all.

    A little less damage, A lot more sustain, More survivability. I suspect most trifectas (other than Godslayer) will actually become easier.
    Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra Destroyer
    The Unchained - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger
    63,840 achievement points
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  • Hotdog_23
    Hotdog_23
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    renne wrote: »
    The DPS thing everyone else has covered, I want to bring up the way ZoS is completely ignoring the massive QoL nerf to consoles with the green tree and requiring a bunch of slottables for every day activities.

    There's already an addon for PC that automatically swaps your slottables when you pick flowers or a chest or deconstruct or anything like that and then once you're done sets your slottables back to where they were. Us on console? We have to do ALL of it manually. It's an unnecessarily massive amount of micromanagement for the green tree just to do every day activities.

    I get why the red and blue tree has slottables, no issue there. But the fact you (ZoS) just don't seem to care at all about quality of life on consoles for the green tree, is baffling and infuriating, because all it is, is making us do busywork for the sake of doing busywork.

    +1, well said.

    as far as

    "The overall goal was to reduce the power of high end damage and efficiency by 15-20% with CP 2.0, as there is a significant delta in power between many players."

    The difference I see is the amount of light attacks is the real difference. Not going to talk about for or against animation canceling but this the 15-20% difference you are seeing.

    I know for me personally I only do it for completive content because of arthritis in my trigger finger and since we can't reassign buttons in eso I am stuck with the trigger button. Before anyone suggest I know you can change in the Main menu for the entire console but that messes it up other content I consume on the console.

    Please ZOS help out console players with the extra micromanagement you are adding to the game.

    Stay safe and have fun :)
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  • Shadowshire
    Shadowshire
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    Smaxx wrote: »
    renne wrote: »
    There's already an addon for PC that automatically swaps your slottables when you pick flowers or a chest or deconstruct or anything like that and then once you're done sets your slottables back to where they were.

    Don't think I've seen one yet. Do you remember the name or have any link at hand?
    There are two add-ons of which I know, which are available from esoui.com, that can be used to allocate Champion Points:

    Champion Point Respec
    Champion Points Slots

    NOTE: you can download the current versions to see what it is like to use each add-on before Monday 8 March (PC/Mac release date for CP 2.0) But you must keep an eye out on ESOUI for the updates which the respective developers of those two utilities must create and release, before using them after CP 2.0 goes "live".

    Each of them enables the player to create a configuration (allocations of the CP), then name it and save it. To restore it, just select its name from a drop-down list and re-load it to replace the one which is currently in use.

    Before you do anything else, save a configuration in which CP have NOT been allocated (name it "Empty"), which you can load to create a fresh allocation of the CP, then save the configuration with a different name.

    Personally, I prefer Champion Point Respec. BUT the player must remember that a number of CP which results in a decimal fraction will be truncated. That is, if you allocate enough CP to make the benefit 10.99% it will be truncated by the game software to 10.0%.

    So the most efficient method is to allocate CP to reach a value that has the smallest fraction. For example, allocate enough CP to make the benefit 12.01% -- which is truncated to 12.0 For some stars, the increment will always have a large fraction, like 22.33% and you cannot obtain a value that is smaller, so you just have to accept the loss of the 0.33%.

    These truncations are built-in to the Champion Points Slots UI, but I find it more difficult to use and a bit confusing as to how to input the number of CP which I need to allocate to "jump" to the next whole (or almost whole) number.

    Note that many stars do not have decimal fractions, and allocating CP increases an integer. For example, adding CP goes from 0 (zero) to 11, another CP increases it to 21, etc.

    --- Shadowshire .......... ESO Plus on PC NA with Windows 7 Pro SP1

    nil carborundum illegitimi
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  • renne
    renne
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    Smaxx wrote: »
    renne wrote: »
    There's already an addon for PC that automatically swaps your slottables when you pick flowers or a chest or deconstruct or anything like that and then once you're done sets your slottables back to where they were.

    Don't think I've seen one yet. Do you remember the name or have any link at hand?
    There are two add-ons of which I know, which are available from esoui.com, that can be used to allocate Champion Points:

    Champion Point Respec
    Champion Points Slots

    NOTE: you can download the current versions to see what it is like to use each add-on before Monday 8 March (PC/Mac release date for CP 2.0) But you must keep an eye out on ESOUI for the updates which the respective developers of those two utilities must create and release, before using them after CP 2.0 goes "live".

    Each of them enables the player to create a configuration (allocations of the CP), then name it and save it. To restore it, just select its name from a drop-down list and re-load it to replace the one which is currently in use.

    Before you do anything else, save a configuration in which CP have NOT been allocated (name it "Empty"), which you can load to create a fresh allocation of the CP, then save the configuration with a different name.

    Personally, I prefer Champion Point Respec. BUT the player must remember that a number of CP which results in a decimal fraction will be truncated. That is, if you allocate enough CP to make the benefit 10.99% it will be truncated by the game software to 10.0%.

    So the most efficient method is to allocate CP to reach a value that has the smallest fraction. For example, allocate enough CP to make the benefit 12.01% -- which is truncated to 12.0 For some stars, the increment will always have a large fraction, like 22.33% and you cannot obtain a value that is smaller, so you just have to accept the loss of the 0.33%.

    These truncations are built-in to the Champion Points Slots UI, but I find it more difficult to use and a bit confusing as to how to input the number of CP which I need to allocate to "jump" to the next whole (or almost whole) number.

    Note that many stars do not have decimal fractions, and allocating CP increases an integer. For example, adding CP goes from 0 (zero) to 11, another CP increases it to 21, etc.

    That's not what I was talking about, that seems to be just for allocating CP in the first place. There's an addon called Jack of All Trades that literally reslots your bought green tree slottables whenever you do anything that needs it. Which is great for people on PC! Congrats to the author of the addon managing to make this tedious busywork non-existent for PC folks.

    Still completely sucks for us on console who'll have to do it all manually if we want to be able to get the best out of what we've spent our CP on.

    Which is apparently what ZoS wants us to do as...uh... a way to... uh... stop that pesky green tree power creep, I guess??? 🤷
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  • Ishtarknows
    Ishtarknows
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    silvereyes wrote: »
    twev wrote: »
    silvereyes wrote: »
    ZOS_SamL wrote: »
    The majority of the player-base right now sits around CP 410.
    To anyone at CP 410 today, be advised that if your goal is to max out your vertical progression at CP 1800, similar to reaching CP 810 on live today, your goalpost just got over twice as far away.
    aGfSPps.png
    However, for anyone who mainly plays PVE content, I would recommend setting CP 1200 as your goal, not CP 1800. That will get you most of what you need from CP to be as effective at your role as you can for as little XP as possible, and the amount of XP required to reach that mark is somewhat close to what CP 810 costs on live today (about 21m XP more, when starting from CP 410).

    CP 1800 is nice to top off a little bit of crit or extra off-resources, some small mitigation and combat ability cost reduction (e.g. sprint, dodge roll, block). However, from a practical standpoint, the incremental combat gains from those extra CP probably aren't worth grinding over.

    Personally, after CP 1200, the first things I would probably invest points into would be unlocking extra active abilities for situational swapping (e.g. AOE for trash vs direct damage for bosses), not passives. In other words, I'd switch to horizontal progression at CP 1200.

    I suspect that the majority of players 'at CP 410' is probably based on the players who quit playing around CP 410, but are considered 'players' because ESO touts they sold 19 million copies.
    I'm not sure what would cause you to think that. Boosting numbers for marketing epeen is one thing. Analyzing the current player-base to assess the impact of the CP 2.0 changes is quite another.

    Matt Firor and Rich Lambert have both stated in the past that a large component of the player-base is fairly casual and shows up to play through new story quests 1-3 times a year before logging off again. It makes complete sense to me that such players would make up the "majority of the player-base", and would have CP levels well below cap.

    So they rework everything for the occasional tourist but the people who spend hours every week in the game get shafted hard?

    I'm glad we have something official that acknowledges the disregard they have for their loyal player base.
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