Factions should matter and what makes an MMO great.

relentless_turnip

I would like to preface this by saying this is just my opinion.
I enjoy the discussion and I am aware the subject matter is entirely subjective.
My mind could also be changed by a strong argument, but this is currently how I feel.

I watched a video by Lazy Peon recently and whether you like him or loathe him I think he had something important to say about the MMO genre in general.
This is that video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_2ttuyE1Rg
What he spoke about largely is how stale the MMO genre has become, but also spoke endearingly about fond memories and what he remembered enjoying about those moments.

My earliest MMO experience was World of Warcraft between 2005- 2007. What I remember is a feeling of insignificance generally that my avatar was one of thousands on the server I was on, but also a sense of great possibility.
What a group of players decided to do could impact the world.
For instance there was a day I logged in and 2 raid groups of the other faction were attacking one of our capital cities and everyone on the server was jumping on to defend it.
There were more famous incidents such as the virus outbreak that some bodies pet brought out of a raid or the mass murder at an in game wedding. This was all player driven and the driving force behind a lot of these incidents are factions. The predetermined formation of allies and rivals encouraged by the developer.

After reminiscing on my own in game memories it brought me back to a common denominator and that is factions should matter. ESO as a whole has many amazing group activities, but the rewards are for the individuals. I think group achievement into today's MMOs should impact the world and I think who you choose to back should also be consequential to you as an individual.

I would love to see some form of loyalty return to factions with rewards being less centred on the individual being on the winning side. I also think it is a mistake to let players flip sides on a whim, I think this can be driven away by incentivising loyalty.
I know in the original inception of the game the three banner war for instance impacted the market etc... I don't think this is the best idea, but I do think there should be rewards and consequences for your Factions position in the cyrodill campaign. Perhaps the Golden Vendor Could appear in the capital city for the faction with the highest hourly or day score.

Same could be said for Trials where scoring high could reap rewards not just for you as an individual player, but also for your faction. It may lessen a threat in a zone for instance or open a zone otherwise inaccessible.

Overland what if world bosses didn't die but could be fought back into different zones where they caused destruction until they were forced somewhere else. Like in Skyrim where you could be completing a quest and the dragon would attack the town. You had to kill the dragon just to be able to continue interacting with the NPC's.
Perhaps a stupid idea, but it unites people to help their allies and stick it to their rivals.

This in my opinion this is what drives people to log in. "I need to get to (insert content) to help my faction, to make sure we get this/we don't lose this". I feel this way about Cyrodill, but many don't and I think it takes a large amount of imagination sometimes to feel this way. Many of these situations exist, but are completely player driven and aren't aided by the developers.

I would love to see everyone, no matter what content you enjoy to be able to have an impact on the world and make it better for the side you have chosen.

I would love people's thoughts on this.
Does faction loyalty currently matter to you?
Do you think factions aid in your immersion or drive you to play?
Do you have any idea's that would make your presence feel more impactful on the world?
Does presence in the world even matter to you?

BlueRaven

In the early days of eso, before one tamriel, what happened in cyrodiil had cascading effects in the pve zones. In the form of buffs and whatnot. And players would be notified in pve zones about events in cyrodiil.

The result was that certain cyrodiil battle groups would be fully turned over to one faction as “buff” groups. With only occasional temporary turn overs. Imagine going into a cyrodiil with all items your faction, all enemy gates open, and all scrolls captured.
And then having two others each dominated by another faction. You get the idea.

Also in wow, with the pvp servers that you seem to be longing for, they were rarely balanced. Usually dominated by one faction or the other. I used to play on “Burning Blade” that had a ridiculously high amount of horde players for example. (Edit: The point is few players like pvp for pvp sake, they like dominating in pvp.)

Lastly, I like being able to quest and group with people from other factions. Even today when we do ic boss runs, getting the entire group logging on with the same faction characters is problematic.

There is more, but you get the idea.

(One more thing, please don’t put pvp areas/events in pve zones. It just drives pve players away.)

Alurria

In WoW if I remember there was a buff for a certain faction if your faction won certain battle grounds or a particularly hard dungeon. I can't remember now as I quit playing WoW so long ago. Faction in ESO When the game first came out the players who blew through content just to level were bored and that is when silver and gold were added along with CP. Craglorn came after that. So how would this actually work, I have silver and gold completed on one character and silver on another. I quit playing for a while. So instead of going backwards let's move forward. Maybe a faction achievement that doesn't force you to have to group in a small group just a cooperative effort etc. Once daily event that you have to win to gain benefit from for the whole faction.

Olauron

To answer some questions:
1. There are a lot of campaigns in Cyrodiil. It is not uncommon to have each faction to dominate in one campaign. You can't give something to other zones based on it.
2. My faction loyalty is expressed in what quests I do or don't do. I absolutely don't care about the faction of other players, only NPCs matter.
3. As such, I definitely will not play more to do something for this fictional player faction that has nothing to do with real lore faction.
4. To make a player more impactful on the world there should be more choices in quests and more different outcomes. What if I want to help AD in Shadowfen?
5. The less presence of the other players in the world, the better.

relentless_turnip

@BlueRaven and @Alurria thank you for your responses. Could I ask what your favourite moments in an mmo? And what at core was driving you to log in during those times?

This is what I was trying to establish myself. I believe the answer is different for everyone though.

What drives me is to log in(I think) is to help my friends/allies achieve a common goal.

BlueRaven

In WoW it was when I first left the Tauren stating area and went into the barrens. The first feeling of the size of the mmo, that there was so much to discover.
And also flying for the first time I guess. Same reaction of endless exploring potential.

In ESO, it was defeating Molag Bal for the first time and entering meridia’s realm. The unexpectedness of it had me paralyzed with confusion at one point. I had heard about the “Colored Rooms” but I doubted I would ever see them, and there I was seeing them.

When eso came out, I did not know that I could continue questing in the other factions, so I made my first three characters each in their own faction to see all the story lines. I got full clears of ALL the zones on those three characters.
I love exploration, turning a corner that no one knows about. And finding places few know exist. Like finding that Sheogorath house in StormHaven. It is not involved in any quests, but it’s a wonderful nod to story telling.

Daemons_Bane

Why factions.. Why always choosing sides in a war.. I hate it, and have always hated it.. I just want to be me.. I don't care about some imaginary global war

Sylvermynx

Nope. Not interested in factions or wars. Wasn't in WoW or RIFT, and not here either. I did some pvp in WoW and RIFT - but I hated every minute of it, and I'm simply not "participating" here. Only time I go to Cyro is fishing....

I played WoW from 2006-2013, and RIFT from 2013-2016. They both went in directions I didn't find fun, so bye bye games. If that happens in this game, again I will leave and find something else (or not - as I may not be able to play games by the time beth gets off its duff to release TES VI).

The entire MMO genre to me is best when I don't have to interact with anyone. To me, the draw is that these are not static worlds like single player games are (even with modded quests etc.)

Kalik_Gold

I also like in certain games that in game groups of people had reputation (yes, grinds) You had to make in-game choices that affected which factions your character joins works with.

Joy_Division

ESO tried to be faction oriented from the start. Blueraven's summary is pretty much on target. It was worth trying, but even if you are the hardcore PvE player who likes PvP, when you do PvE, you can't be in Cyrodiil and thus your PvE raid might lose the very buffs you worked to create and thus your PVE goals are now effected by things beyond your control. Also, it's *a lot* easier now to get that 2 more DPS you need for a Trial run because you're not limited to 1/3 of the community; to say nothing of actually making new friends and expanding your contact list.

If a developer or a game has to *force* players to do something or play a certain way, the game has already failed. I don;t play games to be railroaded into doing something I'd rather not. This is a leisure activity, I have alternative choices to spend my time, and if I constantly find myself restricted to what I can and can;t do or be stuck with choices I made when I first started before I knew anything or anyone, I'm going to play something else.

ESO's main flaw is that it's really hard for a player to leave their mark on the world or feel they have some sort of impact on it. No matter how much some random NPC halfway across the world accosts me for allowing that doctor in Phair to commit murder seven years later, neither me nor Auridon nor Tamriel was impacted by that decision. Things are so bad in this regard that the devs actually changed the public dungeon quest in Coldharbor to force you to save the murderous made-a-deal-with-daedra quest giver.

This is especially most apparent in Cyrodiil where the players are unable to actually do anything or interact with the map / environment. Nothing happens if a faction wins; the map isn;t even reset. Cyrodiil tomorrow will looks the same today as it did yesterday no matter what I do, if I win, what choices I make, so there's no motivation for me to care about who or with whom I play. There's no investment there, no reason to care.

Rather than allowing the players to at least have a part in creating and transforming the world in ESO the devs seem content to have us grind away on hamster wheels for CP, endure awful RNG and run this dungeon 100 times and still not get the Burning spellweave inferno staff, and tell us that winning the war in Cyrodiil is super important, even though winning it changes nothing and rewards the player for doing so with a pittance.

Scardan

1. I do not care about any faction in this game. I am fan of the Tribunal and I am living in CWC .
2. Immersion does matter for me. Sometimes I completely forget that there is a war between factions, because it is absolutely not felt. Elves calmly walk around the fortresses of people in enemy alliances, people calmly roam alliances led by hostile elves and so on.
3. No ideas.
4. Well, without going into the game it is impossible to play it.

Bradyfjord

Different things work in different games. I like how faction is handled in this ESO. I didn't care for silver and gold, but it's what we have. I did them once for the dyes. Cyrodiil is the only place where faction truly matters.

Ryuvain

Why cant we be neutral or mercenaries? I'm only loyal to khajiit tbh.

Daemons_Bane

Ryuvain wrote: »

Why cant we be neutral or mercenaries? I'm only loyal to khajiit tbh.

I would love this.. the neutral choice.. wandering around Tamriel and just doing what I feel like

Sarannah

relentless_turnip wrote: »

I would love people's thoughts on this.
Does faction loyalty currently matter to you?

No. I would love for the Cyrodiil war to end. It is strange a god invades the world, and factions still can't seem to work together. Besides that, the main quest also makes the factions work as one.

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Do you think factions aid in your immersion or drive you to play?

Not at all. I play the game, and quest where I can find quests. No matter which faction they are on.

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Do you have any idea's that would make your presence feel more impactful on the world?

Yes, if what we do changes the zone around us. My reply taken from another thread:

I'm hoping we get some zones where we can actually see our quest progress, like in Coldharbour. Where we slowly re-populate the city. Other ideas for this type of play are:

1: Start a zone with just one wagon, and follow the road to claim more and more of the zone. All the while your wagon grows into a caravan, then into a tentcamp, then into a town, and eventually into a stronghold.

2: Start at a destroyed castle somewhere in a zone. Where we slowly rebuild the castle the more and more quests we complete.

3: Start a zone alone, and every quest we do we gain allies. To build an army for some final assault.

There are probably some more like these, but you get the idea. It is really satisfying to see the results of our efforts.

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Does presence in the world even matter to you?

Yes, and no. Yes, I'd like it if our questing had more of an impact. And no not really, but as a vampire I'd like to be able to repair my gear. I just saved your city, zone, and lives... but you refuse to sell/repair to me. NPC's seem to remember me for the wrong reasons!

Kiralyn2000

relentless_turnip wrote: »

I would love people's thoughts on this.
Does faction loyalty currently matter to you?
Do you think factions aid in your immersion or drive you to play?
Do you have any idea's that would make your presence feel more impactful on the world?
Does presence in the world even matter to you?

1) No. Faction "loyalty" is silly. Even when I played WoW (vanilla - Cata), I had alts of every class & race so I could experience all the story/quests/exploration. And I didn't really care about PvP - I did some battlegrounds to try to get rank, but then gave up after 9 or so. And 'raids' on opposing cities were just griefing and annoyance, not exciting or interesting.
2) no, but I don't believe in / suffer from "immersion", so /shrug


3 + 4) eh, no. "Presence"? It's an MMO, everything is ephemeral. You might raid and destroy The Great Big Threat To Existance, and be hailed as heroes by the faction leaders - but it doesn't matter, it'll just respawn for another raid next week. And meanwhile, another group is arriving from killing their version of The Great Big Threat, to be hail as heroes by the faction leaders. Or the "immersive" experience of the beginning of a new expansion, standing in line with dozens of other people waiting for a quest boss to respawn (among it's pile of previous corpses) so you can take you turn at killing it & saving those NPCs back at the nearby camp (who aren't actually in any danger, the quest boss doesn't actually move & attack them).

From what I understand of this "immersion" concept (most of which is contradictory & irrational), MMOs are inherently un-immersive. You're surrounded by constant reminders of game mechanics, game functions, and other things to remind you that it's all artificial - from the respawning/infinite nature of the world, to the UI & chat, to the crowd of other idiots with stupid names bunny-hopping all around you. Meh.




And as for 'factions', I'd be thrilled it PvP died and never came back. Or went off to exist - in a properly balanced & designed form - in it's own games, separate from PvE games, so that the two don't constantly trample all over each others' toes.

relentless_turnip

Joy_Division wrote: »

ESO tried to be faction oriented from the start. Blueraven's summary is pretty much on target. It was worth trying, but even if you are the hardcore PvE player who likes PvP, when you do PvE, you can't be in Cyrodiil and thus your PvE raid might lose the very buffs you worked to create and thus your PVE goals are now effected by things beyond your control. Also, it's *a lot* easier now to get that 2 more DPS you need for a Trial run because you're not limited to 1/3 of the community; to say nothing of actually making new friends and expanding your contact list.

If a developer or a game has to *force* players to do something or play a certain way, the game has already failed. I don;t play games to be railroaded into doing something I'd rather not. This is a leisure activity, I have alternative choices to spend my time, and if I constantly find myself restricted to what I can and can;t do or be stuck with choices I made when I first started before I knew anything or anyone, I'm going to play something else.

ESO's main flaw is that it's really hard for a player to leave their mark on the world or feel they have some sort of impact on it. No matter how much some random NPC halfway across the world accosts me for allowing that doctor in Phair to commit murder seven years later, neither me nor Auridon nor Tamriel was impacted by that decision. Things are so bad in this regard that the devs actually changed the public dungeon quest in Coldharbor to force you to save the murderous made-a-deal-with-daedra quest giver.

This is especially most apparent in Cyrodiil where the players are unable to actually do anything or interact with the map / environment. Nothing happens if a faction wins; the map isn;t even reset. Cyrodiil tomorrow will looks the same today as it did yesterday no matter what I do, if I win, what choices I make, so there's no motivation for me to care about who or with whom I play. There's no investment there, no reason to care.

Rather than allowing the players to at least have a part in creating and transforming the world in ESO the devs seem content to have us grind away on hamster wheels for CP, endure awful RNG and run this dungeon 100 times and still not get the Burning spellweave inferno staff, and tell us that winning the war in Cyrodiil is super important, even though winning it changes nothing and rewards the player for doing so with a pittance.

I think you make some really good points here. I wouldn't want to feel forced to compete in content either. I do want to feel impactful though and that my presence is noticeable.

Perhaps changes to cyrodill would be a good place to start. If the environment did change as a result of winning losing. If it had some sort of micro climate within the zone maybe that would be enough.

ealdwin

The only way that Alliance could potential matter at this point in the game, would be if the developers decided on implementing more passive, less combat-focused bonuses when in the lands of your Alliance. Perhaps when adventuring in Glenumbra on a DC character, you would find better quality gear from drops or get more resources from nodes. Or other things like discounts on paying off bounties, higher prices from selling/fencing items. The kind of bonuses that aren't game breaking or game limiting as BlueRaven pointed out regarding ESO's past. But bonuses that make the choice of alliance matter a bit more.

I'd love the ability to make better decisions that felt like they had more impact based on my Alliance. For instance, there's that public dungeon in the Rift, the Lion's Den, that has you trying to find the DC spy. My main that has done all the quests is DC, so when completing that quest, I simply accused the person who clearly wasn't the spy, and let the two more suspicious people (and likely the spy) carry on their business. But imagine if instead, we could complete the dungeon in a different manner, where we could join with the Covenant forces there and aid the spy in weakening our foes. But, that would require ZOS going back and updating old content they haven't touched in years—something they are highly unlikely to do.

I've also felt that it's time, perhaps, for the Alliance War to come to an end. Despite the "official" record being everything (every chapter, DLC, quest) all happening in the same year, I find it hard-pressed to not believe that several years have passed over the events of ESO. At this point the alliances are barely even mentioned in dialogue. The only place where alliance even matters much anymore is in Cyrodiil, which is stuck in a perpetual plane-meld time-state. The leaders of each alliance have moved on, focusing on stuff at home. The Imperials are rebuilding parts of Cyrodiil, looking to make a recovery. We know the alliances all break apart at some point. When Hjalit Early-Beard takes up the name "Tiber Septim", he finds himself going up against a Breton-Nord alliance, Independent states in Morrowind and BlackMarsh, and the Second Aldmeri Dominion. At this point, the Alliance War is a meaningless charade between armies who fail to recognize that their leaders simply don't care about (or rather don't think about) Cyrodiil since the threat of Daedra has ended.

With Ayrenn trying to build the ideal kingdom back home, Jorunn trying to convince the parts of Skyrim to join him for Happy Hour, Emeric leading the cooperation of High Rock and Hammerfell (Orcs' state still in question) in sea-based trading to make bank... Not to mention the Tribunal, with Vivec continuing to show his "love" by dangling a rock above his people's heads, Almalexia peacing out in her temple, and Sotha Sil playing with this followers toys... And then the numerous Argonians, Dunmer, Nords, Reachmen, Imperials, and others I can't fully recall who never had anything to do with the Alliance War in the first place...

I think it's safe to say the Alliance War is kind of the last thing anyone is thinking about. It's honestly time for ZOS to rebuild parts of Cyrodiil, and look to a new state for the province. Perhaps it could be rebuild with PVP still in mind, but this time focused on 3 new, Imperial led, factions for those looking to claim the Ruby Throne for themselves. Perhaps the leaders of the restored Counties could be looking to establish their own Empire? Something new that could provide a breath of fresh air in Cyrodiil.

xaraan

The ship has sailed on alliances mattering in ESO. With alliance change tokens, the fact that pvp is probably less popular than pve in the game, and cross play between alliances added in with one tamriel, etc. the idea is just a novelty now.

coop500

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Why factions.. Why always choosing sides in a war.. I hate it, and have always hated it.. I just want to be me.. I don't care about some imaginary global war

This, so much friggen THIS
Everything these days, has to be about WAR and I'm so tired of it. I don't give two toots about the dang war, there's so much more in games than the war.

I didn't care about the war in Skyrim either.

Goregrinder

As an MMO veteran, I do miss this part of ESO. Keep in mind, a lot (if not most) people that play ESO have never touched an MMORPG before, ESO was their first one, so they aren't going to have any frame of reference of what makes an MMORPG an MMORPG. Some of them probably still play this game as though it were Skyrim Online, so the inner workings of what makes an MMO work and what makes it grind to a halt will be lost on them.

But opposing factions were one of the best parts of SWG, WoW, DAoC, etc. I'm a big fan of player generated content (which is why I've been PVPing since the golden age of MMOs) and opposing factions enables player generated content. ESO sort of doesn't REALLY have factions, not since the One Tamriel Update, and it's been kind of a bummer.

ealdwin

Another thought I had, that I wanted to make separate reply because my ramblings were getting quite lengthy in my previous reply.

I'd love to see some sort of factions introduced in the same vein as the Knightly Orders from TES II: Daggerfall or the Great Houses from TES III: Morrowind. Factions that each character could only join one of their type, and then their choice could introduce different bonuses or passives based on that faction.

For instance, if there were "Knightly Orders" of a sort, and there was an Order based on following Stendarr, then that faction could provide a passive bonus in fighting Undead and/or Daedra (even players). So maybe a Vampire character would find a fierce foe in facing against a member of this Stendarr Order who was also a member of the Fighter's Guild who fought with Flame Enchants. ZOS could also use this idea to introduce multiple Vampire or Werewolf clans with their own benefits and drawbacks.

Essentially, what I gather (and I agree) is that ESO really lacks some of the impactful choices in previous Elder Scrolls games when it came to factions and groups. Just take a look at the Gold Coast. The only way to complete the zone is to join the Dark Brotherhood. But what if you are RP'ing your character as Morag Tong? Or maybe you're character is Lawful Good in your eyes. Honestly, I would have loved if there had been just the option to join a different faction and bring an end to the Dark Brotherhood in the Gold Coast.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

I despised the forced factions in WoW. So many times it felt dumb and hamfisted, with how often they cooperate and the number of neutral factions. What, you're a druid of the Cenarion Circle/ mage of the Kirin Tor/shaman of the Earthen Ring etc? Naaah, you're Horde/Alliance. Be angry with the opposite!

It's only recently characters of the opposite faction can finally talk to eachother. Something that has bothered people for years and only got more and more annoying as years went on and again, the factions cooperated in the story, and the npcs talked to eachother. But the players? kek kek bur bur.

Which is why I'm happy with ESO's One Tamriel change, and don't want more faction things. They mean little to me and to most of my characters. Moreso since after basegame, there isn't really any quests related to them.

JKorr

The devs did attempt factions in the beginning. The discontent began during beta testing. People said they didn't mind making multiple characters for the beta because beta.

Once the game started however people let it be known they were not happy about not being able to go to other factions, not being able to do quests in any order they wanted, or group with their friends who were in other factions. The zones being level scaled made everything too linear and easy. They wanted to earn all the achievements on their one character. So Cadwell's Silver and Gold happened. Then One Tamriel, so everyone can go everywhere and do everything in any order.

I think, personal opinion only, that the player base of the Elder Scrolls games is not the best demographic for "factions". While there is a wide range of player ages, many players are older, came here from the single-player games where the focus was story/exploration, and really aren't that competitive. My characters don't really care what those people in Cyrodiil are doing. None of them will ever be emperor. Whoever is on the Ruby Throne my characters will still be doing the same things; exploring, fighting random daedra, idiot bandits, and more evil cultists that they can shake a weapon at. I, again, personal opinion only, can't understand the mindset for pvp. If it would be a story reason to fight in Cyrodiil that had an effect on the "daily life" of my characters, then maybe. Otherwise the point of endlessly killing other players over and over and over and over and over really makes no sense whatsoever. For myself, there's no "thrill" of having someone kill my characters just because they can. The only times I've ended up in Cyrodiil were before the attunable stations when I was crafting gear for someone. I didn't really see the attraction. There are daedra and cultists killing people everywhere so I should go to cyrodiil to let other players kill me because?

coop500

To answer the OP's questions, because that sounds fun~

Does faction loyalty currently matter to you?
No, I personally feel all the factions are bleh, I kinda like DC but I don't 'agree' or like any of them. I prefer doing sidequests over their quests. I wish this game didn't even have factions.

Do you think factions aid in your immersion or drive you to play?
Nope, if anything it discourages me.

Do you have any idea's that would make your presence feel more impactful on the world?
Nothing plausible to our limited spaghetti code, but I would like for sidequests to have different choices mean something, or when I save a village, to see it stop burning or whatever. But that falls back to hardware possibilities of the code. ATM I am actually pretty happy with the game as is.

Does presence in the world even matter to you?
A little, but it's not a dealbreaker, I just wanna have fun.

Joy_Division

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

ESO tried to be faction oriented from the start. Blueraven's summary is pretty much on target. It was worth trying, but even if you are the hardcore PvE player who likes PvP, when you do PvE, you can't be in Cyrodiil and thus your PvE raid might lose the very buffs you worked to create and thus your PVE goals are now effected by things beyond your control. Also, it's *a lot* easier now to get that 2 more DPS you need for a Trial run because you're not limited to 1/3 of the community; to say nothing of actually making new friends and expanding your contact list.

If a developer or a game has to *force* players to do something or play a certain way, the game has already failed. I don;t play games to be railroaded into doing something I'd rather not. This is a leisure activity, I have alternative choices to spend my time, and if I constantly find myself restricted to what I can and can;t do or be stuck with choices I made when I first started before I knew anything or anyone, I'm going to play something else.

ESO's main flaw is that it's really hard for a player to leave their mark on the world or feel they have some sort of impact on it. No matter how much some random NPC halfway across the world accosts me for allowing that doctor in Phair to commit murder seven years later, neither me nor Auridon nor Tamriel was impacted by that decision. Things are so bad in this regard that the devs actually changed the public dungeon quest in Coldharbor to force you to save the murderous made-a-deal-with-daedra quest giver.

This is especially most apparent in Cyrodiil where the players are unable to actually do anything or interact with the map / environment. Nothing happens if a faction wins; the map isn;t even reset. Cyrodiil tomorrow will looks the same today as it did yesterday no matter what I do, if I win, what choices I make, so there's no motivation for me to care about who or with whom I play. There's no investment there, no reason to care.

Rather than allowing the players to at least have a part in creating and transforming the world in ESO the devs seem content to have us grind away on hamster wheels for CP, endure awful RNG and run this dungeon 100 times and still not get the Burning spellweave inferno staff, and tell us that winning the war in Cyrodiil is super important, even though winning it changes nothing and rewards the player for doing so with a pittance.

I think you make some really good points here. I wouldn't want to feel forced to compete in content either. I do want to feel impactful though and that my presence is noticeable.

Perhaps changes to cyrodill would be a good place to start. If the environment did change as a result of winning losing. If it had some sort of micro climate within the zone maybe that would be enough.

Yes, if winning a campaign or a guild claiming a keep or a player capturing a flag had some perceptible change or consequence in the game-world and thus a sense of actual accomplishment for players, then that would go a long way in establishing a genuine connection between player, character, and the PvP environment they are supposed to be a part of.

That was one of the things that attracted me to what CU was trying to do. But I guess it's easier said than done seeing how, well, people who pledged to CU already know the deal.

Alurria

Maybe instead of factions it could be unification, such as an invasion. We can't have a dragon invasion because they gave us that. So Deadra, maybe it's time to move the story forward. Just a suggestion.

To answer the OP, the first MMORPG I played was Never. winter Nights on AOL. It held a whopping 200 people max and that was toward the end when it shut down. It was a turn based pvp game and I loved it. There was smack talk although I preferred to role play my part. Then there was UO so much griefing that I moved on to EQ beta. By that time I didn't like pvp anymore but realized there where pve griefers in EQ. TRAIN! not a word you wanted to hear. You moved out of the way or got ran over only to have to make a corpse run. DAoC I loved large scale pvp and faction fights until 8 man's took over. Then came WoW. There were other games in between. I love ESO I can be social if I choose or not and I can spend my gaming time doing what I want to do. This is what I love about this game. Oh and I don't care what others think about my gear or how I play anymore as long as I have fun. Large scale pvp was fun in ESO but I see the small ball groups have taken over so I won't be playing pvp in ESO anymore.

Mik195

Ok, this rant is NOT about PVPers, but about stupid NPCs.

I think the whole war is stupid. The Imperial City has been invaded, Bruma is under attack and under resourced, Chylendal(?) has deadra popping out of the ground and the Alliance leaders are acting like children "I wanna be boss". If given the opportunity, my Vestige would have trotted over to each Alliance leader, mudballed them and told them to snap out of it and focus on the invasion. If I knew how to upload a picture, the picture of Cher from Moonlighting would be here.

coop500

Mik195 wrote: »

Ok, this rant is NOT about PVPers, but about stupid NPCs.

I think the whole war is stupid. The Imperial City has been invaded, Bruma is under attack and under resourced, Chylendal(?) has deadra popping out of the ground and the Alliance leaders are acting like children "I wanna be boss". If given the opportunity, my Vestige would have trotted over to each Alliance leader, mudballed them and told them to snap out of it and focus on the invasion. If I knew how to upload a picture, the picture of Cher from Moonlighting would be here.

THIS. so much this, this is why I can't give two cents worth of care for the alliance or the war or 'faction loyalty'

NotaDaedraWorshipper

Mik195 wrote: »

Ok, this rant is NOT about PVPers, but about stupid NPCs.

I think the whole war is stupid. The Imperial City has been invaded, Bruma is under attack and under resourced, Chylendal(?) has deadra popping out of the ground and the Alliance leaders are acting like children "I wanna be boss". If given the opportunity, my Vestige would have trotted over to each Alliance leader, mudballed them and told them to snap out of it and focus on the invasion. If I knew how to upload a picture, the picture of Cher from Moonlighting would be here.

Pretty much what my imperial characters are thinking. Which is one big reason why I don't like choosing a faction and why they are rarely related to the character.

Tandor

Faction is really only of any significance in PvP, and I have no interest in that.

For PvE, I do feel a tad sorry for those players who didn't start before One Tamriel and therefore didn't complete the different faction zones and storylines separately, and for whom trying to follow any sort of storyline has become a bit of a mess now - although in other respects I much prefer One Tamriel for its freedom, not least in the way you can now dip in and out of the base game to do DLC/Chapter content without having out-leveled the base game when you return to where you left off.