Add a NO PROC SET CAMPAIGN to Cyrodiil

Nyladreas

YES - Do add a NO-PROC SET CAMPAIGN to Cyrodiil

marius_buys wrote: »

Let the players vote with their feet, add a NO-PROC SET campaign to Cyrodiil

Leave proc sets in IC but the sheer playability of Cyrodiil last night was an absolute pleasure and a throwback to days of old when you could land your hits without lag.
I propose ZOS ads this as a campaign to BG, CP & NO CP Cyrodiil.

I'd just leave it as it is now during the test. No extra campaigns just no procs. Then add BGs and IC too

But I know that won't happen so I voted yes.

DTStormfox

YES - Do add a NO-PROC SET CAMPAIGN to Cyrodiil

I like options

regime211

NO - Do not add a NO-PROC SET CAMPAIGN to Cyrodiil

marius_buys wrote: »

Let the players vote with their feet, add a NO-PROC SET campaign to Cyrodiil

Leave proc sets in IC but the sheer playability of Cyrodiil last night was an absolute pleasure and a throwback to days of old when you could land your hits without lag.
I propose ZOS ads this as a campaign to BG, CP & NO CP Cyrodiil.

The majority of you guys are lying and it show's, if you have failed to learn how to play your class/classes without having to zerg or run in a ball group, how can you effectively make the argument about having a no proc campaign? Sorry but skill is definitely required and without it, having procs or no procs won't make you any better. Performance is worse I have seen valid videos of streamers stating this. So I can't even believe half the post saying it is better. Ballgroups can survive because if some did not notice they turned back on cross healing. I think the community itself is out of touch with some of the things they post here, and need to be more knowledgeable on the points they make before they post them here. Because ultimately you will get what you ask for and then the game will go further down hill Performance wise.

marius_buys

YES - Do add a NO-PROC SET CAMPAIGN to Cyrodiil

regime211 wrote: »

marius_buys wrote: »

Let the players vote with their feet, add a NO-PROC SET campaign to Cyrodiil

Leave proc sets in IC but the sheer playability of Cyrodiil last night was an absolute pleasure and a throwback to days of old when you could land your hits without lag.
I propose ZOS ads this as a campaign to BG, CP & NO CP Cyrodiil.

The majority of you guys are lying and it show's, if you have failed to learn how to play your class/classes without having to zerg or run in a ball group, how can you effectively make the argument about having a no proc campaign? Sorry but skill is definitely required and without it, having procs or no procs won't make you any better. Performance is worse I have seen valid videos of streamers stating this. So I can't even believe half the post saying it is better. Ballgroups can survive because if some did not notice they turned back on cross healing. I think the community itself is out of touch with some of the things they post here, and need to be more knowledgeable on the points they make before they post them here. Because ultimately you will get what you ask for and then the game will go further down hill Performance wise.

Erm, with respect but your reasoning and observations are simply devoid of facts

Oakenaxe

OTHER - I will elaborate in the comments

I'm seeing no difference in server performance, procs don't seem to be the problem.

zaria

YES - Do add a NO-PROC SET CAMPAIGN to Cyrodiil

WaywardArgonian wrote: »

I voted no, firstly because the definition ZOS uses of proc sets includes completely fine sets such as Seducer and New Moon Acolyte, and secondly because balancing classes respectively for a proc and a non-proc environment are 2 entirely different things. I'd rather they just look into overperforming sets and find a way to make people choose between high survivability and high damage.

The way they defined proc set was pretty stupid, but they had to draw an line.
None of the static effects are proc sets as they don't proc
However is ebon or the other ball sets proc, technically as you have to be in range to be affected.
Briarheart is an proc set too.
But as you say damage or survival or rater rather who more damage who lower survival.

WaywardArgonian

NO - Do not add a NO-PROC SET CAMPAIGN to Cyrodiil

zaria wrote: »

WaywardArgonian wrote: »

I voted no, firstly because the definition ZOS uses of proc sets includes completely fine sets such as Seducer and New Moon Acolyte, and secondly because balancing classes respectively for a proc and a non-proc environment are 2 entirely different things. I'd rather they just look into overperforming sets and find a way to make people choose between high survivability and high damage.

The way they defined proc set was pretty stupid, but they had to draw an line.
None of the static effects are proc sets as they don't proc
However is ebon or the other ball sets proc, technically as you have to be in range to be affected.
Briarheart is an proc set too.
But as you say damage or survival or rater rather who more damage who lower survival.

I can understand why ZOS uses this definition as their objective with this test seems to be observing how it will influence performance if you reduce set calculations to a minimum. This is why sets like New Moon Acolyte are affected, as their 5th bonus makes a calculation based on percentage instead of giving a flat penalty.

This is all understandable, but players have to remember that the sets affected by this test and the proc sets that people complain about are 2 different things. When people state they hate the proc meta, they are not talking about sets like Clever Alchemist, but rather Crimson Twilight or Thews of the Harbinger.

So what I'm saying is that I wonder if the people who say "let's keep proc sets out of Cyro forever" are just talking about those notorious sets, or also include stuff like Armor of the Seducer and Clever Alchemist.

Waffennacht

OTHER - I will elaborate in the comments

Too many sets are considered procs

techyeshic

YES - Do add a NO-PROC SET CAMPAIGN to Cyrodiil

WaywardArgonian wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

WaywardArgonian wrote: »

I voted no, firstly because the definition ZOS uses of proc sets includes completely fine sets such as Seducer and New Moon Acolyte, and secondly because balancing classes respectively for a proc and a non-proc environment are 2 entirely different things. I'd rather they just look into overperforming sets and find a way to make people choose between high survivability and high damage.

The way they defined proc set was pretty stupid, but they had to draw an line.
None of the static effects are proc sets as they don't proc
However is ebon or the other ball sets proc, technically as you have to be in range to be affected.
Briarheart is an proc set too.
But as you say damage or survival or rater rather who more damage who lower survival.

I can understand why ZOS uses this definition as their objective with this test seems to be observing how it will influence performance if you reduce set calculations to a minimum. This is why sets like New Moon Acolyte are affected, as their 5th bonus makes a calculation based on percentage instead of giving a flat penalty.

This is all understandable, but players have to remember that the sets affected by this test and the proc sets that people complain about are 2 different things. When people state they hate the proc meta, they are not talking about sets like Clever Alchemist, but rather Crimson Twilight or Thews of the Harbinger.

So what I'm saying is that I wonder if the people who say "let's keep proc sets out of Cyro forever" are just talking about those notorious sets, or also include stuff like Armor of the Seducer and Clever Alchemist.

Those notorious sets are what I would me; but I'd be willing to take the collateral damage. I don't speak for everyone.

Oakenaxe

OTHER - I will elaborate in the comments

I think proc sets that are too powerful por PvP should get a slight nerf on PvP only, maintaining it's original stats for PvE if it's not an issue there. Just like some skills change effects.

Luke_Flamesword

YES - Do add a NO-PROC SET CAMPAIGN to Cyrodiil

For test purposes ZOS blocked all sets with any calculations but since it doesn't impact performance - they can make no-proc campaigns but with more sets avaible, for example all minor-major buffs. I also want my Coward's Gear, because this is so slow without it

They can add "no-pvp" icon in tooltips and just blocked all damage sets, some op sustain/healing and anything which is good for PvE, but completely broken in PvP. It will be good for game, because than they can make any op set for PvE without breaking PvP.

techyeshic

YES - Do add a NO-PROC SET CAMPAIGN to Cyrodiil

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

For test purposes ZOS blocked all sets with any calculations but since it doesn't impact performance - they can make no-proc campaigns but with more sets avaible, for example all minor-major buffs. I also want my Coward's Gear, because this is so slow without it

They can add "no-pvp" icon in tooltips and just blocked all damage sets, some op sustain/healing and anything which is good for PvE, but completely broken in PvP. It will be good for game, because than they can make any op set for PvE without breaking PvP.

Or we have a proc damage and healing reduced by another half in battle spirit.

Luke_Flamesword

YES - Do add a NO-PROC SET CAMPAIGN to Cyrodiil

Or we have a proc damage and healing reduced by another half in battle spirit.

That's also good, maybe even with some damage/healing cap from sets to not stack some effects and overusing them. Normal players wants mostly balanced builds, mainly trolls or gankers stack some effects for op combinations.

Varana

OTHER - I will elaborate in the comments

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

For test purposes ZOS blocked all sets with any calculations but since it doesn't impact performance - they can make no-proc campaigns but with more sets avaible, for example all minor-major buffs. I also want my Coward's Gear, because this is so slow without it

But what exactly are the calculations required by a set like Mighty Chudan?
Specifically, why does "Gain Major Resolve at all times" require calculations, while "Gain x amount Armor" (like Fortified Brass) does not?
There's some strange stuff going on in the background.

Goregrinder

OTHER - I will elaborate in the comments

Varana wrote: »

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

For test purposes ZOS blocked all sets with any calculations but since it doesn't impact performance - they can make no-proc campaigns but with more sets avaible, for example all minor-major buffs. I also want my Coward's Gear, because this is so slow without it

But what exactly are the calculations required by a set like Mighty Chudan?
Specifically, why does "Gain Major Resolve at all times" require calculations, while "Gain x amount Armor" (like Fortified Brass) does not?
There's some strange stuff going on in the background.

It requires a "check" every single time that player is hit with something that can deal damage or remove resistances, per spell. So if 5 players hit you with something, and each player hits you with 3 things that can either remove resistances or affect resistances in some way, that is 15 separate checks the server has to do on you. And if 10 players in a fight run Chudan, that's 15 checks per 10 players. So probably 150 (or so) checks done for a fight, probably per second. And that is just one single fight, there are multiple fights happening in Cyrodiil at the same time across the map.

I'm sure someone will correct my math, but that is the idea behind disabling any set that has to do a "check".

Varana

OTHER - I will elaborate in the comments

So abilities that affect resistances, never affect the resistances provided by Resolve?

Because if it's just "take Armor into account when being hit by something", that would also be true for a set that just adds Armor. Yet Fortified Brass (adding armour) does work.
Adding a stat via set bonus is handled differently than adding the same stat via buff, even if the buff is active all the time.

Dr_Ganknstein

NO - Do not add a NO-PROC SET CAMPAIGN to Cyrodiil

Voted no. Just adjust the ridiculous proc sets that need it. They add to the build diversity that makes this game more fun to me and many others.

Goregrinder

OTHER - I will elaborate in the comments

Varana wrote: »

So abilities that affect resistances, never affect the resistances provided by Resolve?

Because if it's just "take Armor into account when being hit by something", that would also be true for a set that just adds Armor. Yet Fortified Brass (adding armour) does work.
Adding a stat via set bonus is handled differently than adding the same stat via buff, even if the buff is active all the time.

I am not sure, as I and no one else here outside of ZOS knows how the server handles calculations and checks. I believe the point of this test is to target "Gear Sets" that add extra calculations and extra checks, and Chudan fits that description because it is 1) A gear set, and 2) performs a check.

I don't believe they are testing abilities that perform checks right now, but might in the future. I am going to guess that the system that determines base stats on a character only has to perform a check when that gear is put on, taken off, upgraded in quality, or has a trait changed. I also assume bar swapping initiates this type of check as well, however, bar swapping happens far less frequently. Even if you bar swap on GCD, that would still only be 1 check per second per player. Compare that to 15 checks per player plus bar swap checks, etc.

marius_buys

YES - Do add a NO-PROC SET CAMPAIGN to Cyrodiil

Voting results seems pretty clear at this stage...

marius_buys

YES - Do add a NO-PROC SET CAMPAIGN to Cyrodiil

TY you for listening to the PvP player base

ZOS_GinaBruno
Community Manager
Thanks to everyone for participating in this latest Cyrodiil test where we disabled all proc sets. Similar to what many of you have noted in your feedback, we found this test did not impact performance in a measurable amount; if anything, there was a very slight degradation of performance at times, likely due to a higher population of players in Cyrodiil.

We’ve heard from a lot of you that despite performance largely being the same, disabling proc sets has breathed new life into PvP gameplay and has made fights more enjoyable and fun. To that end, we’ll be leaving proc sets disabled until Update 31 launches in Q3. At that point, we will have implemented some new code so we can have more flexibility to campaign rulesets as it applies to proc sets. We’ll work on applying all this to consoles as well, and we’ll let you know when we have a date for this starting.

Now that we’ve had time to digest a lot of data and information, we have a better idea of next steps and the work needed to produce noticeable improvements to performance in Cyrodiil. This work is complex and will take a fair amount of time and effort. We are committed to improving the PvP experience, though, and we have already begun scheduling out this work. Please note that none of the scheduled work will implement any of the changes we made on PC during past tests, and at this time we don’t plan to run any additional tests.

When Update 29 launches on Monday for PC, we’ll be turning off double AP but proc sets will remain disabled as mentioned above. We appreciate the time everyone spent in Cyrodiil during these tests and all the feedback that’s been submitted.

Kory

YES - Do add a NO-PROC SET CAMPAIGN to Cyrodiil

YandereGirlfriend

YES - Do add a NO-PROC SET CAMPAIGN to Cyrodiil

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

Since the test started, PVP looks way more balanced. No more unkillable players, no more infinite resources, no more 1-shot dmg. PVP based on skill, not on carry sets.

Those who want to play PvS (Players vs Sets) have enough campaigns to play.

Give us one without carry-sets.

I'm not aware of any campaigns that escape the proc set ban. If you are aware of one, please share it with all of us.

CSose

Kind of a mute poll now that all cyro camps will be no proc set mandated from here on out.

Why is the question that needs an official answer now.

CSose

marius_buys wrote: »

TY you for listening to the PvP player base

ZOS_GinaBruno
Community Manager
Thanks to everyone for participating in this latest Cyrodiil test where we disabled all proc sets. Similar to what many of you have noted in your feedback, we found this test did not impact performance in a measurable amount; if anything, there was a very slight degradation of performance at times, likely due to a higher population of players in Cyrodiil.

We’ve heard from a lot of you that despite performance largely being the same, disabling proc sets has breathed new life into PvP gameplay and has made fights more enjoyable and fun. To that end, we’ll be leaving proc sets disabled until Update 31 launches in Q3. At that point, we will have implemented some new code so we can have more flexibility to campaign rulesets as it applies to proc sets. We’ll work on applying all this to consoles as well, and we’ll let you know when we have a date for this starting.

Now that we’ve had time to digest a lot of data and information, we have a better idea of next steps and the work needed to produce noticeable improvements to performance in Cyrodiil. This work is complex and will take a fair amount of time and effort. We are committed to improving the PvP experience, though, and we have already begun scheduling out this work. Please note that none of the scheduled work will implement any of the changes we made on PC during past tests, and at this time we don’t plan to run any additional tests.

When Update 29 launches on Monday for PC, we’ll be turning off double AP but proc sets will remain disabled as mentioned above. We appreciate the time everyone spent in Cyrodiil during these tests and all the feedback that’s been submitted.

At this point words are just a distraction. All that matters now are results.

Now the claim is if we just stick with them for another 9 months everything will be better....again. The same promise they've made countless times before.

Well, what about the last 9 months of promises, or the 9 months of promises before that? At a certain point, like now, promises mean nothing. For a promise to have value it has to come from someone with a history of fulfilling their promises and obligations.

orion_1981usub17_ESO

YES - Do add a NO-PROC SET CAMPAIGN to Cyrodiil

You do realize that if they add a no proc campaign... the pro proc players will be out 70% of the campaign population. Proc campaign would be dead anyway.

regime211

NO - Do not add a NO-PROC SET CAMPAIGN to Cyrodiil

marius_buys wrote: »

TY you for listening to the PvP player base

ZOS_GinaBruno
Community Manager
Thanks to everyone for participating in this latest Cyrodiil test where we disabled all proc sets. Similar to what many of you have noted in your feedback, we found this test did not impact performance in a measurable amount; if anything, there was a very slight degradation of performance at times, likely due to a higher population of players in Cyrodiil.

We’ve heard from a lot of you that despite performance largely being the same, disabling proc sets has breathed new life into PvP gameplay and has made fights more enjoyable and fun. To that end, we’ll be leaving proc sets disabled until Update 31 launches in Q3. At that point, we will have implemented some new code so we can have more flexibility to campaign rulesets as it applies to proc sets. We’ll work on applying all this to consoles as well, and we’ll let you know when we have a date for this starting.

Now that we’ve had time to digest a lot of data and information, we have a better idea of next steps and the work needed to produce noticeable improvements to performance in Cyrodiil. This work is complex and will take a fair amount of time and effort. We are committed to improving the PvP experience, though, and we have already begun scheduling out this work. Please note that none of the scheduled work will implement any of the changes we made on PC during past tests, and at this time we don’t plan to run any additional tests.

When Update 29 launches on Monday for PC, we’ll be turning off double AP but proc sets will remain disabled as mentioned above. We appreciate the time everyone spent in Cyrodiil during these tests and all the feedback that’s been submitted.

Do you solo? or run in a group or zerg?

Joy_Division

Update 31 PvP choices:

• CP PvP faction lock, no procs, no cross heals
• CP PVP, no faction lock, no procs, cross heals
• CP PvP, faction lock, procs, no cross heals
• CP PVP, no faction lock, no procs, cross heals
• CP PVP, faction lock, procs, cross heals
• CP PVP, no faction lock, procs, no cross heals
• Etc
• Etc
• Etc

To cover every single permutation such that we have 20+ campaigns with barely enough players to fill two of them.

Here's the campaign I want: the one with no test imposed restrictions that was admitted to have negligible effect on lag.

Araneae6537

YES - Do add a NO-PROC SET CAMPAIGN to Cyrodiil

Joy_Division wrote: »

Update 31 PvP choices:

• CP PvP faction lock, no procs, no cross heals
• CP PVP, no faction lock, no procs, cross heals
• CP PvP, faction lock, procs, no cross heals
• CP PVP, no faction lock, no procs, cross heals
• CP PVP, faction lock, procs, cross heals
• CP PVP, no faction lock, procs, no cross heals
• Etc
• Etc
• Etc

To cover every single permutation such that we have 20+ campaigns with barely enough players to fill two of them.

Here's the campaign I want: the one with no test imposed restrictions that was admitted to have negligible effect on lag.

Why should some options have healer specific nerfs? That’s hardly fair. CP and set selection effect everyone. If abilities that are supposed to heal allies (not cross anything) and nerfed so then people should only be able to damage one target at a time, hitting a new target immediately ends all previous dots, or something.

Personally, I think the following would be quite sufficient:
CP, procs
CP, no procs
Non-CP, procs
Non-CO, no procs

At most two additional CP campaigns with faction lock just so nobody loses anything.

Ascarl

OTHER - I will elaborate in the comments

Just wait how this experiment turns out.

Katheriah

YES - Do add a NO-PROC SET CAMPAIGN to Cyrodiil

marius_buys wrote: »

TY you for listening to the PvP player base

They didn't listen, they just removed 'procs' from all Cyro servers.

Cyro will be dead shortly after double AP is disabled.