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ESO vs the rest
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vestahls✭✭✭✭✭
✭I've heard that part of the reason games don't offer moral choices as often as some players would like is somewhere between 60% and 90% of players choose the good option, and a significant chunk of those who don't are doing a repeat playthrough specifically to see how it's different. From the developers perspective it's difficult to justify putting in the time to make different versions of the quests (and keep track of the impacts for later events) for something most players will never do.
WoW's Horde would like a word lol
Same with DnD come to think of it, the Drow were always over-proportionately popular, I remember reading that any DnD book with them on the cover sells way more copies than anything else (though I couldn't speak for how it is in the MMO).
I mean, I wish it were what you say, but I suspect devs just see it as time consuming for no real benefit. Look at ESO, not only do you not have a good/bad option most of the time, you barely have any option on how to finish a quest. And when you do have a choice, like to either kill Veya or not for example, she ends up being alive next chapter anyway! Like... what?
Oh, and about this
In SWTOR you can actually be a light-aligned Sith, or a dark-aligned Jedi, or whatever, and anything inbetween. It doesn't have vast effects, but it makes things a bit more interesting. I guess I just appreciate the amount of effort its devs put into the RP and quest side of things.But the fact that they're working with a (literally) black and white morality system also makes it easier because you can have villains who are evil purely for the sake of being evil, because that's where their power comes from. Whereas in a lot of fantasy I think people want a lot of villains who are more nuanced and fall into that grey area where what they're doing is wrong but you could maybe sympathise with them, especially if you're being given the choice to side with them. So it's more work to create the characters and storylines...for something most people won't want to do anyway.Edited by vestahls on February 3, 2021 5:37PM“He is even worse than a n'wah. He is - may Vivec forgive me for uttering this word - a Hlaalu.”luv Abnur
luv Rigurt
luv Stibbons
'ate Ayrenn
'ate Razum-dar
'ate Khamira
simple as1 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Wow at it-s worst is still better than eso now.
Eso had a chance to become really good, it didn't take it.
At the end of the day it's just a mediocre mmo, right now.
I don't know it really depends on where you are at with each game. If you find running the same world quest over and over and over being gated with 2 levels of your covenant each week and then spend 6 hours in a raid to not get a single piece of gear and then the vault gives you a measly 200 piece waist that is only a fraction better than your 197 covenant piece fun than you might be right.
Personally I don't find that fun at all.
Might not be very fun, still better than eso though. Eso had the potential, but it was squandered, and at this point i don't think they will ever make a good game.
Eso has potential for the combat system, lore and cp in general, and they poretty much failed on all 3, to lesser and greater degree, cp was a complete failure, combat is good,. but there are things that could be improved, and especially it's getting a bit stale, lore, fail on many things. Cp could have been super cool, but in the end they just resorted to nerfs basically, disguised as an improvement (horizontal progression) it's all marketing bs, for one why exactly is horizontal better than vertical? It isn't, vertical and horizontal should go together, gw2 has only horizontal, and end game is boring af, and i see that eso is going more towards it as well.
Horizontal progression should be provided mostly by new abilities, sets, mechanics etc, while cp was the perfect base for vertical progression, but a good system only works as long as you are willing to put an effort into bettering the game, what happened here was that zos devs introduced the shiny cps in craglorn , and didn't really think about the long term, which is why now we are here where cps are just about the same but weaker, and a with lot of marketing bs added, and people fall for it, lol. Oh yea, 150 spell power is totally more interesting than 15 % elemental and magic damage, what a joke.
What they should have done is this: introduce a new system to counteract the progressive power gain from sets cp and everything in genreal, something like mythic + or similar would have been exceptional, balance the red and blue cp as closely as possible, make the green like pre morrowind, with the cost reduction cps, make cp level infinite, but with severe diminishing returns after you hit a certain cp level on cps, for example, after you reached 30% of a certain cp, every point you add there is gonna increase your % by less and less, or don't, keep the cp lvl 3600 and that's it, i have no big preference, and make the perks you gain after you unlock spent a certain amount of points into a tree way more interesting, because they were pretty bad and uninspired overall.
Anyway, looking at things right now, wow is way better, at least there they try, and they have more and better content overall, which is more than what can be said here.
Anyway, can't say i am surprised that zos devs took the easy way ot here, looking at their track record.
Edited by JinMori on February 3, 2021 7:37PM1 -
worrallj✭✭✭✭✭For me the combination of fast paced dynamic combat that doesn't suffer from skill bloat with the strong fantasy atmosphere & lore (great graphics, great music, good voice acting) that permeates all aspects of the game makes eso superior to all other mmos.
Eve Online is the only other mmo that comes close to combining interesting mechanics with immersive gameplay IMHO, but the steep learning curve plus a slower pace, along with all the spreadsheets, makes it too much like a job rather than a game.Edited by worrallj on February 3, 2021 7:41PM2 -
Jaxious79✭✭✭✭Wow at it-s worst is still better than eso now.
Eso had a chance to become really good, it didn't take it.
At the end of the day it's just a mediocre mmo, right now.
I don't know it really depends on where you are at with each game. If you find running the same world quest over and over and over being gated with 2 levels of your covenant each week and then spend 6 hours in a raid to not get a single piece of gear and then the vault gives you a measly 200 piece waist that is only a fraction better than your 197 covenant piece fun than you might be right.
Personally I don't find that fun at all.
Anyway, looking at things right now, wow is way better, at least there they try, and they have more and better content overall, which is more than what can be said here.
Anyway, can't say i am surprised that zos devs took the easy way ot here, looking at their track record.
WoW devs try? First most of the seasoned devs have all left Blizzard. Second how is borrowed power trying. Here spend 2 years building up this great power item and overnight its worthless.
Here just do a bunch of the same boring world events over and over.
Oh lets give you a 10 minute flight path to get from area to area.
Oh we are aware we don't have much content so lets gate everything behind weekly walls. You could grind your covenant in a few days but we are going to gate that cause we don't have a lot of content for you.
Oh you guys like gear well lets greatly reduce gear in every aspect of the game, raids, dungeons, world drops all reduced and extremely hard to come by.
We are going to destroy crafting, its pointless and worthless. We will slowly remove things like archelogy and fishing and make other crafting gated behind more walls, again we just don't have alot of content.
I will never understand why people who hate a video game spend so much time on that games forums. You do know wow has its own forum right? Trust me everything I have said is repeated over there.Edited by Jaxious79 on February 3, 2021 7:58PM5 -
worrallj✭✭✭✭✭Wow at it-s worst is still better than eso now.
Eso had a chance to become really good, it didn't take it.
At the end of the day it's just a mediocre mmo, right now.
I don't know it really depends on where you are at with each game. If you find running the same world quest over and over and over being gated with 2 levels of your covenant each week and then spend 6 hours in a raid to not get a single piece of gear and then the vault gives you a measly 200 piece waist that is only a fraction better than your 197 covenant piece fun than you might be right.
Personally I don't find that fun at all.
Anyway, looking at things right now, wow is way better, at least there they try, and they have more and better content overall, which is more than what can be said here.
Anyway, can't say i am surprised that zos devs took the easy way ot here, looking at their track record.
WoW devs try? First most of the seasoned devs have all left Blizzard. Second how is borrowed power trying. Here spend 2 years building up this great power item and overnight its worthless. Here just do a bunch of the same boring world events over and over. Oh lets give you a 10 minute flight path to get from area to area. Oh you guys like gear well lets greatly reduce gear in every aspect of the game, raids, dungeons, world drops all reduced and extremely hard to come by.
I will never understand why people who hate a video game spend so much time on that games forums. You do know wow has its own forum right? Trust me everything I have said is repeated over there.
Wow is a very beautiful and streamlined game, especially considering it's age. If I had more of a community there I might still play it. But I *greatly* prefer the design philosophy of eso: faster combat, more open ended in terms of more choices in build design, less cartoony, more story driven; it's much better on all those counts.4 -
pelle412✭✭✭✭✭These are the games I've played the most.
ESO
Quests/Story: Very good, voice acting, decent DLC long over-arching stories.
Combat: Fast paced, high skill ceiling, less beginner friendly.
Dungeons: Base game fairly bland, DLC top notch quality.
Trials: Limited selection but good quality.
PvP: Fast paced, high skill ceiling, less beginner friendly. Rewards are meh.
Endgame: Vertical progression has an end many players reach, very little horizontal progression.
SWTOR
Quests/Story: Best I've ever seen. Nail-biters with plot twists. Amazing Star Wars quality.
Combat: Tab targeted, beginner friendly, high skill ceiling, high DPS rotations can be fairly complex.
Dungeons: Most are fairly bland but wider difficulty options than ESO to challenge even the top players.
Trials: Limited selection, wider difficulty options than ESO to challenge even the top players.
PvP: Beginner friendly, but high skill ceiling. Includes unrated/rated PvP seasons with good rewards.
Endgame: Vertical progression fairly straightforward, almost infinite horizontal progression.
WOW
Quests/Story: Pretty mediocre. Some stories are decent, but most are fetch quests. Some voice acting.
Combat: Tab targeted, beginner friendly, high skill ceiling, high DPS rotations can be fairly complex.
Dungeons: Huge selection, many are very good. Less story, more mechanics / teamwork focused.
Trials: Huge selection, this is where WoW truly shines. Many different difficulty choices.
PvP: Beginner friendly, but high skill ceiling. Includes unrated/rated PvP seasons with good rewards. Epic Battlegrounds. WoW really shines here.
Endgame: Very long vertical progression (grindy), good horizontal progression.
1 -
worrallj✭✭✭✭✭...
Where it fails to me is in group content and its combat system. Group content that I have played lacks anything that suggest a group is needed besides the damage and sponginess of enemies. Essentially they have lacked interesting attacks that players must dodge or use specific mechanics.
You should do scalecaller peak hm.... Or ruins of mazzatun hm.... Or fang lair hm.... Or vcr+3.... I've been really impressed with the interesting mechanics a lot of the harder dlc content presents. I will say that sometimes if you use add-ons a handful of those mechanics get kinda pointless since the add-ons tells you exactly what to do & when to do it, but thats the exception and the mechanics are certainly there.Edited by worrallj on February 3, 2021 8:12PM1 -
Jaxious79✭✭✭✭Wow at it-s worst is still better than eso now.
Eso had a chance to become really good, it didn't take it.
At the end of the day it's just a mediocre mmo, right now.
I don't know it really depends on where you are at with each game. If you find running the same world quest over and over and over being gated with 2 levels of your covenant each week and then spend 6 hours in a raid to not get a single piece of gear and then the vault gives you a measly 200 piece waist that is only a fraction better than your 197 covenant piece fun than you might be right.
Personally I don't find that fun at all.
Anyway, looking at things right now, wow is way better, at least there they try, and they have more and better content overall, which is more than what can be said here.
Anyway, can't say i am surprised that zos devs took the easy way ot here, looking at their track record.
WoW devs try? First most of the seasoned devs have all left Blizzard. Second how is borrowed power trying. Here spend 2 years building up this great power item and overnight its worthless. Here just do a bunch of the same boring world events over and over. Oh lets give you a 10 minute flight path to get from area to area. Oh you guys like gear well lets greatly reduce gear in every aspect of the game, raids, dungeons, world drops all reduced and extremely hard to come by.
I will never understand why people who hate a video game spend so much time on that games forums. You do know wow has its own forum right? Trust me everything I have said is repeated over there.
Wow is a very beautiful and streamlined game, especially considering it's age. If I had more of a community there I might still play it. But I *greatly* prefer the design philosophy of eso: faster combat, more open ended in terms of more choices in build design, less cartoony, more story driven; it's much better on all those counts.
I still play WoW cause I have a group of friends who play it. If they ever left I probably would never play it again. Most of the appeal to wow is that it is the big dog of mmos. Over the years though it has definitely gone downhill.0 -
TheImperfect✭✭✭✭✭
✭I've tried a few MMO's including WOW and EVE. Played DAoC a while. Eso hands down is the best in my opinion. WOW is very good and enjoyable. EVE I would say is on a par with ESO in terms of enjoyment but there's only so many hours in a day and the lore and variety of ESO puts it way out in front and the fact it's part of the Elder Scrolls. EVE is also a vastly differen't sort of game so like comparing apples and oranges. I don't have time for 2 MMO so ESO wins.0 -
asuitandtyb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭"Once you get through the story though its not a very good game. Sitting in the fleet (which is one of the most toxic areas in all of MMOs) waiting for a queue or running around in circles is not fun. Outside of the story, new areas its maybe 3 hours worth of content every couple of years, there is nothing to do in SWTOR. Sure you have FP, OPS and PVP like every other game but the planets are small, linear and there is nothing in them. SWTOR is just a good HUB game until you get through all the story and then its nothing."
SWTOR and ESO have virtually the same end-game PvE; dungeons, raids, and daily zone quests.0 -
Sevn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wow at it-s worst is still better than eso now.
Eso had a chance to become really good, it didn't take it.
At the end of the day it's just a mediocre mmo, right now.
I don't know it really depends on where you are at with each game. If you find running the same world quest over and over and over being gated with 2 levels of your covenant each week and then spend 6 hours in a raid to not get a single piece of gear and then the vault gives you a measly 200 piece waist that is only a fraction better than your 197 covenant piece fun than you might be right.
Personally I don't find that fun at all.
Might not be very fun, still better than eso though.
Sorry to shorten your rant, but everything after this statement is irrelevant. Serious question, why are you even here lol? Did WoW servers shut down or something?
Never understand people who spend time ranting on about a game in their forums when the game they prefer is readily available to them to enjoy or the very least spend that time ranting about the lesser game in that game forums.
Baffling I tell you.There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man, true nobility is being superior to your former self
-Hemingway3 -
ixmike✭✭✭ESO, FO76, and Elite Dangerous are the only MMOs I play.Xbox NA, DC NB.Gamertag: swampfoxix0 -
Misty✭✭✭Guild wars 2 was my favourite for years but over time it started to get daft and stupid. It just didn't grab me anymore.
That's one thing going for ESO it's never got daft and it has stuck to the plan even when it came to making extra cash.
Your all going to laugh at this but my favourite mmo of all time was Conan. Boy did that game have heart and a great combat system.1 -
SeaGtGruff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's no contest. If I'm given a choice between playing ESO or getting some rest, ESO almost always wins, unless I'm so tired that I literally can't keep my eyes open anymore.
Seriously, though, I haven't played any other MMORPGs yet, so I can't compare ESO with any of them. I mean, eventually I might try some of them, but as it is I spend so much time playing ESO that I can't imagine how I'd ever find time to try out something else. And I'd try to accept each one on its own grounds as far as their ways of doing things, but it would be hard not to compare them to ESO. I was watching someone stream some other MMORPG (can't even remember its name) when they were taking a break from ESO, and I just couldn't get into its graphical style. But I think something like The Lord of the Rings Online, or Star Trek Online, would be pretty interesting to try out.Edited by SeaGtGruff on February 3, 2021 9:49PMI've fought mudcrabs more fearsome than me!2 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Wow at it-s worst is still better than eso now.
Eso had a chance to become really good, it didn't take it.
At the end of the day it's just a mediocre mmo, right now.
I don't know it really depends on where you are at with each game. If you find running the same world quest over and over and over being gated with 2 levels of your covenant each week and then spend 6 hours in a raid to not get a single piece of gear and then the vault gives you a measly 200 piece waist that is only a fraction better than your 197 covenant piece fun than you might be right.
Personally I don't find that fun at all.
Anyway, looking at things right now, wow is way better, at least there they try, and they have more and better content overall, which is more than what can be said here.
Anyway, can't say i am surprised that zos devs took the easy way ot here, looking at their track record.
WoW devs try? First most of the seasoned devs have all left Blizzard. Second how is borrowed power trying. Here spend 2 years building up this great power item and overnight its worthless.
Here just do a bunch of the same boring world events over and over.
Oh lets give you a 10 minute flight path to get from area to area.
Oh we are aware we don't have much content so lets gate everything behind weekly walls. You could grind your covenant in a few days but we are going to gate that cause we don't have a lot of content for you.
Oh you guys like gear well lets greatly reduce gear in every aspect of the game, raids, dungeons, world drops all reduced and extremely hard to come by.
We are going to destroy crafting, its pointless and worthless. We will slowly remove things like archelogy and fishing and make other crafting gated behind more walls, again we just don't have alot of content.
I will never understand why people who hate a video game spend so much time on that games forums. You do know wow has its own forum right? Trust me everything I have said is repeated over there.
Wow devs made mythic + in legion, wow raids are far, FAR better than what we have in eso, wow devs at least try to improve combat, wow devs at least don't disregard performance, i could go on and on.
Yes eso is low tier at the moment, and frankly i care nothing for fanboysm, looking at it from objective measures wow IS BETTER THAN ESO.
Also, wtf does this mean? "how is borrowed power trying" I don't know, is cp trying? It's borrowed power, that phrase without context means nothing, i can say for sure that at least artifacts were far better than eso cps, and other borrowed power systems are generally better because at least they balance with that in mind, they don't just do stuff willie nillie.
I am talking as someone who really likes the elder scrolls, and at the moment, i with eso was never made, because it's a stain on the tes history.
In this game there is 0 strive to make things better, there are only new patches with new content paired with some marketing bs, but no real improvements about the state of the game, and the recent cp changes have made it extremely clear, i am completely disillusioned.Edited by JinMori on February 3, 2021 10:13PM0 -
Goregrinder✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MMORPG's I've played:
SWG (All iterations), WoW (all versions), EQ2, DAoC, Age of Conan, Vanguard, Guild Wars 1, Guild Wars 2, Tabula Rasa, Wildstar (RIP right?lol), FF14, Neverwinter, DDO, LOTRO, Rift, Anarchy Online, Warhammer Online, Runes of Magic, Allods Online, Black Desert Online, Archeage, SWTOR, Star Trek Online, Dragon's Prophet, Firefall, Darkfall, Planetside 2 (MMOFPS), and space MMO's such as Elite Dangerous and Star Citizen (I keep it patched!), and of course ESO.
So out of all those MMO's, only a few of those stood out to me, and out of the ones that stood out only a few of those kept my interest enough to keep playing it.
SWG will always be at the top of my list when it comes to MMORPG's. It was my first, and I played the live version until it's servers sunset. I still play on a few Emu servers here and there, but nothing was quite like the original live experience.
But since then, WoW was able to keep my interest from late Vanilla, up until Pandaria. Beyond that I just can't keep my account subbed for more than a month before I lose interest. Age of Conan was another one that had so much potential, but ultimately was never fully realized due to Funcom's choices. Planetside 2 kept me occupied for quite awhile, and still has me log in every so often to play...it's still fun! Elite and Star Citizen have kept my interest up as of late, but they are a little bit different than traditional fantasy MMORPG's, so it isn't a fair comparison. I believe that Star Citizen will ultimately become the spiritual successor to what SWG was trying to be, but was held back by server and game engine tech at the time.
With that said, speaking strictly on fantasy based MMORPG's....the only one that has been able to keep my interest since it launched has been.....can you guess? .......................*89-stroke-PARADIDDLE-drum roll on 5/8 over 4/4*.........
Yes that's right, the answer is Elder Scrolls Online...or TESO as we called it for the first like 3 months haha. It's just ESO these days. There are so many things I could list on why I keep coming back and handing ZOS the pw to my bank account, and a few things I can list that I wish ESO had but doesn't....there is just no other fantasy MMORPG on the market currently that offers the best balance of everything AND has a large focus on PVP. PVP is always a must for me, plus all of the other options have vertical progression systems, ESO being the only one offering a horizontal progression system.
TLDR: It basically embodies all of the good stuff from MMORPG's before it (SWG, DAoC, WoW), but does not over-dilute with themepark junk that you will find in every other MMORPG in the top 10 list that isn't ESO. It's the worst of all available evils if you want to think of it that way. The best option, until another PVP based MMORPG comes out and blows it out of the water (RIP New World....).1 -
Jaimeh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭For me the combination of fast paced dynamic combat that doesn't suffer from skill bloat with the strong fantasy atmosphere & lore (great graphics, great music, good voice acting) that permeates all aspects of the game makes eso superior to all other mmos.
This ^ graphics that don't look cartoonish, story with (mostly) great writing and voice acting, and for me personally, the action fast-paced combat, make it a truly beautiful game.1 -
Jaxious79✭✭✭✭asuitandtyb14_ESO wrote: »"Once you get through the story though its not a very good game. Sitting in the fleet (which is one of the most toxic areas in all of MMOs) waiting for a queue or running around in circles is not fun. Outside of the story, new areas its maybe 3 hours worth of content every couple of years, there is nothing to do in SWTOR. Sure you have FP, OPS and PVP like every other game but the planets are small, linear and there is nothing in them. SWTOR is just a good HUB game until you get through all the story and then its nothing."
SWTOR and ESO have virtually the same end-game PvE; dungeons, raids, and daily zone quests.
But eso has delves, public dungeons extra stuff like Dark Brotherhood, thieves guild, mage guild, fighters guild, antiquities, and countless others stuff you can do after the main story. Swtor? Grind the same stuff for renown.
Not the same at all.0 -
Jaxious79✭✭✭✭Wow at it-s worst is still better than eso now.
Eso had a chance to become really good, it didn't take it.
At the end of the day it's just a mediocre mmo, right now.
I don't know it really depends on where you are at with each game. If you find running the same world quest over and over and over being gated with 2 levels of your covenant each week and then spend 6 hours in a raid to not get a single piece of gear and then the vault gives you a measly 200 piece waist that is only a fraction better than your 197 covenant piece fun than you might be right.
Personally I don't find that fun at all.
Anyway, looking at things right now, wow is way better, at least there they try, and they have more and better content overall, which is more than what can be said here.
Anyway, can't say i am surprised that zos devs took the easy way ot here, looking at their track record.
WoW devs try? First most of the seasoned devs have all left Blizzard. Second how is borrowed power trying. Here spend 2 years building up this great power item and overnight its worthless.
Here just do a bunch of the same boring world events over and over.
Oh lets give you a 10 minute flight path to get from area to area.
Oh we are aware we don't have much content so lets gate everything behind weekly walls. You could grind your covenant in a few days but we are going to gate that cause we don't have a lot of content for you.
Oh you guys like gear well lets greatly reduce gear in every aspect of the game, raids, dungeons, world drops all reduced and extremely hard to come by.
We are going to destroy crafting, its pointless and worthless. We will slowly remove things like archelogy and fishing and make other crafting gated behind more walls, again we just don't have alot of content.
I will never understand why people who hate a video game spend so much time on that games forums. You do know wow has its own forum right? Trust me everything I have said is repeated over there.
Wow devs made mythic + in legion, wow raids are far, FAR better than what we have in eso, wow devs at least try to improve combat, wow devs at least don't disregard performance, i could go on and on.
Yes eso is low tier at the moment, and frankly i care nothing for fanboysm, looking at it from objective measures wow IS BETTER THAN ESO.
Also, wtf does this mean? "how is borrowed power trying" I don't know, is cp trying? It's borrowed power, that phrase without context means nothing, i can say for sure that at least artifacts were far better than eso cps, and other borrowed power systems are generally better because at least they balance with that in mind, they don't just do stuff willie nillie.
I am talking as someone who really likes the elder scrolls, and at the moment, i with eso was never made, because it's a stain on the tes history.
In this game there is 0 strive to make things better, there are only new patches with new content paired with some marketing bs, but no real improvements about the state of the game, and the recent cp changes have made it extremely clear, i am completely disillusioned.
Borrowed power is lazy. Create something that doesn't require long term in a game that by its very nature is built on long term.
If you find grinding a raid for 6 hours a week 1/2 that time on trash thats where 1/2 /the raid gets zero gear fun thats fine. But nothing about that is fun.
You are not looking at it objectively at all spouting off with the fanboy crap proves that.
You may think wow is better thats fine plenty of people disagree with you.2 -
Jeffrey530✭✭✭✭Wow at it-s worst is still better than eso now.
Eso had a chance to become really good, it didn't take it.
At the end of the day it's just a mediocre mmo, right now.
I don't know it really depends on where you are at with each game. If you find running the same world quest over and over and over being gated with 2 levels of your covenant each week and then spend 6 hours in a raid to not get a single piece of gear and then the vault gives you a measly 200 piece waist that is only a fraction better than your 197 covenant piece fun than you might be right.
Personally I don't find that fun at all.
Anyway, looking at things right now, wow is way better, at least there they try, and they have more and better content overall, which is more than what can be said here.
Anyway, can't say i am surprised that zos devs took the easy way ot here, looking at their track record.
WoW devs try? First most of the seasoned devs have all left Blizzard. Second how is borrowed power trying. Here spend 2 years building up this great power item and overnight its worthless.
Here just do a bunch of the same boring world events over and over.
Oh lets give you a 10 minute flight path to get from area to area.
Oh we are aware we don't have much content so lets gate everything behind weekly walls. You could grind your covenant in a few days but we are going to gate that cause we don't have a lot of content for you.
Oh you guys like gear well lets greatly reduce gear in every aspect of the game, raids, dungeons, world drops all reduced and extremely hard to come by.
We are going to destroy crafting, its pointless and worthless. We will slowly remove things like archelogy and fishing and make other crafting gated behind more walls, again we just don't have alot of content.
I will never understand why people who hate a video game spend so much time on that games forums. You do know wow has its own forum right? Trust me everything I have said is repeated over there.
Wow devs made mythic + in legion, wow raids are far, FAR better than what we have in eso, wow devs at least try to improve combat, wow devs at least don't disregard performance, i could go on and on.
Yes eso is low tier at the moment, and frankly i care nothing for fanboysm, looking at it from objective measures wow IS BETTER THAN ESO.
Also, wtf does this mean? "how is borrowed power trying" I don't know, is cp trying? It's borrowed power, that phrase without context means nothing, i can say for sure that at least artifacts were far better than eso cps, and other borrowed power systems are generally better because at least they balance with that in mind, they don't just do stuff willie nillie.
I am talking as someone who really likes the elder scrolls, and at the moment, i with eso was never made, because it's a stain on the tes history.
In this game there is 0 strive to make things better, there are only new patches with new content paired with some marketing bs, but no real improvements about the state of the game, and the recent cp changes have made it extremely clear, i am completely disillusioned.
ESO has its strengths and flaws, but really any arguments you put forth aren't objective at all, those are just your opinion so stop saying all those like is absolute truth. Fanboysm? You are the only one here fanboying WOW lol. If ESO is as bad as you said, no one would be playing right now and everyone would be playing your wow instead.
Oh I guess you are just coming to the eso forum to prove to all of us how stupidly blinded we are to keep enjoying this mmo which is apparently a stain in tes history, because you know, since you dislike this game it must be a horrible game for everyone else. Well clearly this game is 'objectively' horrible and clearly all those who claimed to made the switch from wow to eso are fakes hired by eso to say so.4 -
Vhale✭✭✭There is a similar thread on the WoW forums if anyone wants to browse, here's my answers from there with minor edits- Ultima Online
- Everquest
- Dark Age of Camelot
- World of Warcraft
- Elder Scrolls Online
Everquest- Best Rep system. Love how interactive the cities are. You have factions and dieties, yet. But you can open up cities if you want to. Downside was/is the grind. Plus side was being able to hang out with buddies while exping. The pace was nice. Also liked the larger raid format. A core group could easily support casual or older people. Everyone didn’t have to be hardcore players to join in. The power creep on mobs was getting out of control by the time I had left. Hybrid classes has advanced in power past their base counterparts. To say noting of surpassing singular focused classes like rogues.
DAoC- Until the first expansion, loved it. It was the initial answer to too much EQ grind, focus on questing, armor that was dyeable and not forced slutmogs, rewarded exploring with bonus exp and had RvR with siege! Sadly, keeping things even turned out easier said than done. And some shortcuts they took early on with development hurt it later.
WoW- First thing I noticed was how much the world was animated. All other MMOs were very static. In WoW, the trees moved. Quests were made dynamic! Humorous and interesting! Mounts, Pets! And in BC, flying! Had some great times in WoW with great raid teams. Loved the bright colors too. I never thought combat was too different than EQ and DAoC, just paced better, more polished, more fun at first. I found the raids easy to understand as the variety of color helps telegraph. But they've gotten a bit cluttered lately. I do like the freedom of targeting things though. Despise the roller coaster of nerfs and class changes. Hates it.
ESO- Best crafting system hands down. Real Housing. The creativity that people use building custom homes is phenomenal. I walked through a mock star wars battle last weekend that someone set up. The crafting, trade and skills system remind me the most of UO. Hell of a lot of myth and lore. I doubt I’ve collected half the lore books in game and love the voice acting. Also appreciate that you can join more than one guild. So you can have a guild for pvp, or just portaling around the map, or just for selling. Feels more like an in-game discord community in a way. Love the costume and dye system. Very nice! And that your Tmog stays applied to your slot until you choose to change it, rather than to a specific item. Greatly appreciate that core skills like interrupt, Bash, Dodge stay CORE and not renamed, pruned etc. Love stealing and Blade of Woe. I think like UO, it has a good variety of "End Games" You can Raid, PvP, Craft, PvE etc etc.1 -
Danikat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I've heard that part of the reason games don't offer moral choices as often as some players would like is somewhere between 60% and 90% of players choose the good option, and a significant chunk of those who don't are doing a repeat playthrough specifically to see how it's different. From the developers perspective it's difficult to justify putting in the time to make different versions of the quests (and keep track of the impacts for later events) for something most players will never do.
WoW's Horde would like a word lol
Same with DnD come to think of it, the Drow were always over-proportionately popular, I remember reading that any DnD book with them on the cover sells way more copies than anything else (though I couldn't speak for how it is in the MMO).
I mean, I wish it were what you say, but I suspect devs just see it as time consuming for no real benefit. Look at ESO, not only do you not have a good/bad option most of the time, you barely have any option on how to finish a quest. And when you do have a choice, like to either kill Veya or not for example, she ends up being alive next chapter anyway! Like... what?
Oh, and about this
In SWTOR you can actually be a light-aligned Sith, or a dark-aligned Jedi, or whatever, and anything inbetween. It doesn't have vast effects, but it makes things a bit more interesting. I guess I just appreciate the amount of effort its devs put into the RP and quest side of things.But the fact that they're working with a (literally) black and white morality system also makes it easier because you can have villains who are evil purely for the sake of being evil, because that's where their power comes from. Whereas in a lot of fantasy I think people want a lot of villains who are more nuanced and fall into that grey area where what they're doing is wrong but you could maybe sympathise with them, especially if you're being given the choice to side with them. So it's more work to create the characters and storylines...for something most people won't want to do anyway.
I actually did start writing "the reason there are not as many games which offer good and evil choices consistently throughout, although of course some do, or have you choose a side..." and then deleted it all because I thought it went without saying that there are of course games besides SWTOR with evil factions you can join or evil choices in quests and it wasn't worth going into detail about that because anyone reading the post would already be aware of examples.
WoW is indeed one of those examples. That was actually one of the selling points of the first Warcraft RTS, at the time it was pretty rare, even in that genre, for a game to let you play the bad guys. And at the time the Horde were pretty explicitly evil...or at least destructive for the sake of it. They were absurdly reconned in WC3 because apparently Blizzard were afraid no one would want to play Horde in WoW if they didn't shoe-horn some redeeming features in at the last minute.
I wasn't trying to imply STWOR the only game to offer that choice (otherwise where would the data on games which offer that choice come from?), just saying it's rarer than some people would like because over the years developers have found it's often not worth the effort of creating whole branching quest lines just so players can feel good about refusing to do them. Easier to just present the path you already know the majority will want to take and spend your time and effort making stuff which will get played.
And yes the drow are popular as characters in books or as NPCs in games, but how many people choose to play an evil drow (as in a drow character + evil alignment + actually sticking to the behaviour defined by that alignment)? Yes the name Drizzit is always taken in the first minute an MMO goes online, even if there are no elves, but it always seems like the people who play drow (or their nearest approximation) have an excuse for why their character is actually the good guy, or at least a misunderstood anti-hero. They don't want to be evil, they just want to be the cool looking guy from the book covers.
I'm not disagreeing that developers don't think it's worth the effort most of the time. I'm saying they're right - unless you've got the lore and the world building to justify it and make playing an evil character seem like an equal choice most players won't do it. ZOS got enough complaints when they introduced the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood, with people complaining that was two whole DLCs they'd never touch and objecting to getting it as part of the subscription. Periodically people still object to the fact that just going to Hew's Bane unlocks the Thieves Guild skill line, because they feel like it's assuming their character is a thief just for going there.PC EU player | She/her/hers | PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
"Remember in this game we call life that no one said it's fair"0 -
phermitgb✭✭✭✭✭I love ESO for a variety of reasons, but I've played a variety of other MMO's, many of which have done particular things that either impress or please me on a personal level more than ESO, or do entirely differently in a way that would never be right for ESO, but were perfect for their own game...
CITY OF HEROES/VILLAINS - I love that game. Probably the first MMO I ever played seriously. The character creator is still, to this day, 2nd to none. I also really loved early COH, before they added the power attachments - basically, an MMO **WITH NO CRAFTING OR INVENTORY** *sigh*...glorious. I *hate* crafting as an MMO activity. I know a lot of people love it, but I loathe it, and having an MMO with absolutely no crafting system at all was a glorious relief (of course, they eventually added a crafting system of sorts) - between the travel powers and the character customization, which was just about out of this world, *** still holds a #1 trophy place in my heart...
LORD OF THE RINGS ONLINE - LOTRO was, maybe, the most BORING MMO I've ever *played* - but I loved sooo much of the rest of the game. The community was one of the best in my entire MMO experience (played on Landroval for context) - the world was VAST...which I loved. There was just soooo much terrain, that it really gave the feeling of a truly huge and expansive world. I was always discovering someplace new, with a nearly perfect balance of huge swaths of relatively mundane terrain and then *poof* stumble upon a small ruin tucked away in the corner of nowhere that spoke to some distant event that you'd probably never really find out about...I love those small touches of worlds with a sense of history + mystery - LOTRO nailed that aspect of world building
GUILD WARS 2 - There was a lot I liked about GW2, but ESO was just...more me. GW2 combat was intriguing but too fast for my taste, and...bunny gnomes with auto turrets - I'm out. But GW2 has, so far in my gameplay experience, the single-best MMO movement system. What I mean by that is, nearly every other MMO I've played has a really lousy relationship between running, walking, jumping, getting up on top of things, sliding off of things, rebounding off of things that you meant to jump on to, etc...GW2's movement - run, hit the jump button and actually jump right then, land on a piece of terrain and actually land there, not bounce off the edge or slide off the edge and drop - GW2 has actually platformer puzzles built into it's environment because the gameplay is nearly as responsive as an actual platformer, unlike every other MMO I've played - that meant that you could create some very diverse terrains to play around on, and I loved that aspect of GW2
had more, but I've got to get ready to go to work - have fun all!"There is no correct resolution; It's a test of character."
James T. Kirk1 -
Pencisl2✭Narvuntien wrote: »ESO has some of the best questing in the business, fully voiced impactful stories. There is consistently new content the old content doesn't go away or become irrelevant. You can go anywhere in any order since there is no level or gear gating.
I consider it third WoW, FFO and then ESO.
People find ESO combat a bit hard to use since it is an action MMO so the Lag issue is a big deal and it is also extremely hard to balance compared to the old school tab targeting and abilities with cooldowns
The "voice acting" is just reading canned lines, you cannot respond in any meaningful way. Also never saw a questline I thought was more than the standard (plenty less though).0 -
Slyclone✭✭✭✭For me, Everquest was my first.
Guild Wars 1, Wow, AION, Rift, Tera, and now ESO.
Played them for a combined 15 years.
ESO is by far the most fun in years. But I really loved Everquest and Guildwars.
ESO has best lore, best combat system, and has best looking human characters.
Hope ZOS gives them a touch up.
That's it, that's all.1 -
Coppes✭✭✭✭asuitandtyb14_ESO wrote: »"Once you get through the story though its not a very good game. Sitting in the fleet (which is one of the most toxic areas in all of MMOs) waiting for a queue or running around in circles is not fun. Outside of the story, new areas its maybe 3 hours worth of content every couple of years, there is nothing to do in SWTOR. Sure you have FP, OPS and PVP like every other game but the planets are small, linear and there is nothing in them. SWTOR is just a good HUB game until you get through all the story and then its nothing."
SWTOR and ESO have virtually the same end-game PvE; dungeons, raids, and daily zone quests.
But eso has delves, public dungeons extra stuff like Dark Brotherhood, thieves guild, mage guild, fighters guild, antiquities, and countless others stuff you can do after the main story. Swtor? Grind the same stuff for renown.
Not the same at all.
Let’s compare:
Once you finish everything in SWTOR you:
Sit around on capital world, stronghold, flagship, fleet. Chatting.
Do PvP Warzones or Ranked PvP.
Dailies
Work on Guild Conquests.
RP
Achievement Hunt
Trade on the GTN (open to all player without being in a trading guild).
Now for ESO:
You sit around in one of the zones. Chatting.
PvP Battlegrounds or Cyrodiil.
Dailies (pledges count here too)
RP
Trade (most effective in a trading guild)
Farm gear sets
Achievement Hunt (easier here than in SWTOR. Nobody’s killing 10,000 enemies in each zone).
Grind the same stuff for renown? Isn’t that the same as grinding for CP?
You grind the same content in ESO too, don’t you?
Delves, Public Dungeons, Dolmens. Yeah. The bring some life to zones you previous visited. Something SWTOR has been trying to do with their events.
The rest of the things you mentioned here also count under ‘Dailies’
The only real things ESO does more superior is zone replay-value (not talking about story here as doing the story multiple times gets old quickly), a select few dungeons, and Cyrodiil.
Every MMO has something good or bad about it and ESO isn’t immune to this. ESO isn’t really that special in the grand scope of things.Edited by Coppes on February 4, 2021 1:51AM2 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I really enjoy ESO and only have like a couple points of contention on.
what I really appreciate is that any future they have added in their expansions have stayed. It does not have the problem that World of Warcraft does, where the introduced and amazing feature that becomes irrelevant or useless in two years.
Meanwhile in ESO every feature added has stayed and improved the game.
I also prefer their horizontal style of progression because it keeps all content relevant.
This is a big problem I have with Destiny, where their philosophy it’s to remove any past content that they deem irrelevant. Which led to a mass removal of zones and loot pools.
Of course this was also due to the file size of that game but still it was a bummer.
I would say my main problem or my bigger issues with elder scrolls online or the following.
1) making main story bosses with only one difficulty setting and are essentially designed to be beaten by beginning players. This has led to several moments where the story led to this big bad - who is supposed to be in an enormous threat - was so laughably easy that it took all the wind out of the sails of the story.
I’ve basically lost almost all of my investment and what was going on because the story did well over 20 hours of build up for a boss that just was not engaging in anyway. Which is a shame because I think the game has fantastic endgame content
2) I think it was a missed opportunity to not have ongoing alliance storylines in each of the expansion content.
I think it is disappointing that our alliance that we choose is actually a big deal in the bass game, but in the following DLC’s and chapters our alliance that we chose almost becomes irrelevant.
I think the writers should work on implementing alliance specific storylines or side quests in add-on content.
——————————————————————————————————————
So something I will give to World of Warcraft is that they maintain your choice in the faction war as well as enter twine the story and the endgame content in their own way. This is effective in getting players hyped for both of the story and the endgame content.
I would like to see the developers of ESO accomplish this and their own way.
Unlike that they are adding companions as a way of implementing more nuance and greater opportunity for player expression in the game. I can see them possibly not being able to accomplish that with the hundreds of thousands of voiced NPC’s in the game, but 2 quality companions is a great starting point for that avenue to be explored.
———————————————————
Also as a final note I think that this game needs to increase its marketing strategy. Because many of their advertising campaigns are kind of cringe. I hope that their relationship with Microsoft which will take affect later can help in this.
I have my issues with World of Warcraft and destiny but I will hand them that they have fantastic marketing.0 -
Jaxious79✭✭✭✭asuitandtyb14_ESO wrote: »"Once you get through the story though its not a very good game. Sitting in the fleet (which is one of the most toxic areas in all of MMOs) waiting for a queue or running around in circles is not fun. Outside of the story, new areas its maybe 3 hours worth of content every couple of years, there is nothing to do in SWTOR. Sure you have FP, OPS and PVP like every other game but the planets are small, linear and there is nothing in them. SWTOR is just a good HUB game until you get through all the story and then its nothing."
SWTOR and ESO have virtually the same end-game PvE; dungeons, raids, and daily zone quests.
But eso has delves, public dungeons extra stuff like Dark Brotherhood, thieves guild, mage guild, fighters guild, antiquities, and countless others stuff you can do after the main story. Swtor? Grind the same stuff for renown.
Not the same at all.
Let’s compare:
Once you finish everything in SWTOR you:
Sit around on capital world, stronghold, flagship, fleet. Chatting.
Do PvP Warzones or Ranked PvP.
Dailies
Work on Guild Conquests.
RP
Achievement Hunt
Trade on the GTN (open to all player without being in a trading guild).
Now for ESO:
You sit around in one of the zones. Chatting.
PvP Battlegrounds or Cyrodiil.
Dailies (pledges count here too)
RP
Trade (most effective in a trading guild)
Farm gear sets
Achievement Hunt (easier here than in SWTOR. Nobody’s killing 10,000 enemies in each zone).
Grind the same stuff for renown? Isn’t that the same as grinding for CP?
You grind the same content in ESO too, don’t you?
Delves, Public Dungeons, Dolmens. Yeah. The bring some life to zones you previous visited. Something SWTOR has been trying to do with their events.
The rest of the things you mentioned here also count under ‘Dailies’
The only real things ESO does more superior is zone replay-value (not talking about story here as doing the story multiple times gets old quickly), a select few dungeons, and Cyrodiil.
Every MMO has something good or bad about it and ESO isn’t immune to this. ESO isn’t really that special in the grand scope of things.
I never said ESO was perfect but if you want to compare it to SWTOR there is no comparison. You could play through every class in swtor do every FP, OPS and PVP, do all the dailies and you would just be done with Cadwells silver in ESO. You completely missed all the extra stuff ESO has outside its main story stuff like Dark Brotherhood, thieves guild, mage guild, fighters guild, antiquities, and the list goes on.
Every year ESO releases a years worth of content, 30-40 hours just in story stuff. SWTOR? 3 hours of story stuff every couple years.
I am not saying SWTOR is bad it just is not on par with ESO when it comes to content, scale and things to do.1 -
Coppes✭✭✭✭asuitandtyb14_ESO wrote: »"Once you get through the story though its not a very good game. Sitting in the fleet (which is one of the most toxic areas in all of MMOs) waiting for a queue or running around in circles is not fun. Outside of the story, new areas its maybe 3 hours worth of content every couple of years, there is nothing to do in SWTOR. Sure you have FP, OPS and PVP like every other game but the planets are small, linear and there is nothing in them. SWTOR is just a good HUB game until you get through all the story and then its nothing."
SWTOR and ESO have virtually the same end-game PvE; dungeons, raids, and daily zone quests.
But eso has delves, public dungeons extra stuff like Dark Brotherhood, thieves guild, mage guild, fighters guild, antiquities, and countless others stuff you can do after the main story. Swtor? Grind the same stuff for renown.
Not the same at all.
Let’s compare:
Once you finish everything in SWTOR you:
Sit around on capital world, stronghold, flagship, fleet. Chatting.
Do PvP Warzones or Ranked PvP.
Dailies
Work on Guild Conquests.
RP
Achievement Hunt
Trade on the GTN (open to all player without being in a trading guild).
Now for ESO:
You sit around in one of the zones. Chatting.
PvP Battlegrounds or Cyrodiil.
Dailies (pledges count here too)
RP
Trade (most effective in a trading guild)
Farm gear sets
Achievement Hunt (easier here than in SWTOR. Nobody’s killing 10,000 enemies in each zone).
Grind the same stuff for renown? Isn’t that the same as grinding for CP?
You grind the same content in ESO too, don’t you?
Delves, Public Dungeons, Dolmens. Yeah. The bring some life to zones you previous visited. Something SWTOR has been trying to do with their events.
The rest of the things you mentioned here also count under ‘Dailies’
The only real things ESO does more superior is zone replay-value (not talking about story here as doing the story multiple times gets old quickly), a select few dungeons, and Cyrodiil.
Every MMO has something good or bad about it and ESO isn’t immune to this. ESO isn’t really that special in the grand scope of things.
I never said ESO was perfect but if you want to compare it to SWTOR there is no comparison. You could play through every class in swtor do every FP, OPS and PVP, do all the dailies and you would just be done with Cadwells silver in ESO. You completely missed all the extra stuff ESO has outside its main story stuff like Dark Brotherhood, thieves guild, mage guild, fighters guild, antiquities, and the list goes on.
Every year ESO releases a years worth of content, 30-40 hours just in story stuff. SWTOR? 3 hours of story stuff every couple years.
I am not saying SWTOR is bad it just is not on par with ESO when it comes to content, scale and things to do.
You’re severely severely over-valuing Cadwell’s Gold and Silver comparing it to the equivalent of completing every class story, operation, flashpoint, and daily in SWTOR.
In fact, I bet most people don’t get past Cadwell’s Silver and Gold because the game is so easy at that point where it just becomes a huge chore. Especially if you’d already seen the other factions storyline.
Mages Guild and Fighters Guild are essentially glorified quest series.
Antiquities are basically Seeker Droid missions (Treasure Hunting) that have more use as they give you useful gear.
In fact both Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild are DLC quest series that get you access to more dailies in the end with some small goodies thrown in like Blade of Woe.
Sure, content and maybe scale. But things to do probably about roughly equal.
There are a plethora of hard and fun achievements to try for.
Some operations which still retain difficult even years after being released.
Fighting skilled player in duels and in Ranked PvP.
Many different paths you can take regarding story.
And of course, for the humble RPer, large amounts of cool and vibrant places to RP.
(Frozen tundras of Hoth, deep alleyways of Nar Shaddaa, war torn Balmora and Corellia, mystic lands of Voss, etc).0
This discussion has been closed.