ZOS, please give the 'old' characters the additional skill point when you do the whole refund

Lyserus

You are going to do the respec for everyone an recalculate anyway

So, just run a check
If "did none of the chapter starting quest -> Then "one more skill point" plain and simple

Lephrel

Old characters:

GreenHere

No offense intended, but I am genuinely curious:

Why, though?


Aren't there like 1,043 skill points available, all in all? (slight exaggeration for illustration)

You can buy literally every skill and passive there is, and still have points left over, no? What do people who always request this for use them on? Are there additional uses for skill points I'm unaware of?

Again, I am being totally sincere and not sarcastic. I'm seriously feeling like there's something I'm missing here.

Vorpan

But why? I've been playing my main since early access and really do not need more skill points. I already have plenty I don't use.

peacenote

While I think I more would say "well, why not?"

But as to why: in my experience you can never get enough skill points if you..

-have both a PvE and PvP build
-want max crafting for better nodes, hirelings
-want glowy chests
-want to be able to force chests
-want bounty to disappear faster
- refuse to buy skyshards
-etc.

on your character. They feel even more constrained on support characters that need a shadow DPS/solo build load out so that questing doesn't take forever.

I have 13 characters and the only one that wouldn't really make use of an extra skill point is my "main" who has done almost everything in the game. The other 12 characters would make use of it easily.

Scardan

Well, if you refuse to buy skyshards, you will search for them. With addons or maps from various web sites it is easy, relaxing task. You also get skill point every time your pvp rank increase. Quests give you skill points.

You just bath in skill points in this game.

Faiza

peacenote wrote: »

While I think I more would say "well, why not?"

But as to why: in my experience you can never get enough skill points if you..

-have both a PvE and PvP build
-want max crafting for better nodes, hirelings
-want glowy chests
-want to be able to force chests
-want bounty to disappear faster
- refuse to buy skyshards
-etc.

on your character. They feel even more constrained on support characters that need a shadow DPS/solo build load out so that questing doesn't take forever.

I have 13 characters and the only one that wouldn't really make use of an extra skill point is my "main" who has done almost everything in the game. The other 12 characters would make use of it easily.

There are enough skill points for your alts, you're just choosing not to pursue them.

Kiralyn2000

peacenote wrote: »

- refuse to buy skyshards

Why would you ever buy skyshards? They're easy to collect.

barney2525

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

peacenote wrote: »

- refuse to buy skyshards

Why would you ever buy skyshards? They're easy to collect.

I have on a couple starting characters just for convenience. Early on all skill points are going into skills, morphs and passives and I like Keen Eye to find nodes easily. So I buy 1 zone for the 5 points to just take care of it and never have to deal with it again.

GreenHere

barney2525 wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

peacenote wrote: »

- refuse to buy skyshards

Why would you ever buy skyshards? They're easy to collect.

I have on a couple starting characters just for convenience. Early on all skill points are going into skills, morphs and passives and I like Keen Eye to find nodes easily. So I buy 1 zone for the 5 points to just take care of it and never have to deal with it again.

(So, I'm trying to tread carefully here, because I don't want this to feel like an attack or anything; the tone can come across more hostile than is intended via text. Please don't think I'm trying to ridicule or anything here.)

What is your method for leveling up?! I can only assume you're just grinding mobs or something that awards xp way faster than skill points, right?

When I'm leveling a character, I always have more skill points than I can even spend because I'm stuck waiting for skills to unlock at X level of a skill line or whatever. And I unlock every skill to at least get it to morphable stage IV as I go down the lists. Literally every skill available to me, whether I use it or not, it'll sit on my bar long enough to reach stage IV before it gets rotated out for something else. You know, just in case, and not because I'm an obsessive weirdo or anything.

I'll need to pay for a skill respec about halfway through leveling, but that's just taking points out of the skills I'm not using / don't intend to use after they're stage IV. Then I'm right back to being flush with skill points again.

I fully deck out all my characters for crafting + hireling mails, and wearing all armor types (at least the relevant nodes for non-dominant weights), all class abilities I don't hate + relevant passives, and usually every single skill & passive in every weapon line that character will use. Oh, and the racial passives, and the guild/world stuff that applies to that character as well. Sometimes I just spend skill points on things I don't need at all to completely fill out a line, just for funsies.

How can I do all that, feeling pretty casual about it, but other people are so strapped for points all the time that they need to beg ZOS for one extra point? That's literally a five minute trip to a public dungeon, max. It takes longer to get on the forum and beg than it would to just run somewhere and grab one.

Is it just because my leveling methods involve running around and grabbing skyshards and public dungeon points? Kind of thought that would be standard for everyone, no? Also, the skill points from doing dungeons the first time; everyone knows about taking the quest for each character... right? RIGHT?!

Again, not trying to attack anyone here, but I really am thinking I'm missing some huge skill point sink somewhere. I spend more points than most do, I'd think; as stated above. And I haven't felt strapped for points since... Homestead update? I don't even remember how long ago that was now, without looking it up.

There are SO many skill points floating around in the pool now, I simply must be missing something. Where are y'all putting your points?! TELL ME YOUR SECRETS!!

: P

Goregrinder

And what did they do to earn a free skill point?

Daemons_Bane

peacenote wrote: »

While I think I more would say "well, why not?"

But as to why: in my experience you can never get enough skill points if you..

-have both a PvE and PvP build
-want max crafting for better nodes, hirelings
-want glowy chests
-want to be able to force chests
-want bounty to disappear faster
- refuse to buy skyshards
-etc.

on your character. They feel even more constrained on support characters that need a shadow DPS/solo build load out so that questing doesn't take forever.

I have 13 characters and the only one that wouldn't really make use of an extra skill point is my "main" who has done almost everything in the game. The other 12 characters would make use of it easily.

I got all that jazz, and still have points to spare..

wild_kmacdb16_ESO

Seems like a pretty reasonable request and Im not even impacted. Not sure why its so controversial.

virtus753

Goregrinder wrote: »

And what did they do to earn a free skill point?

We all endured a "pick up this useless white item and hit something" tutorial. Even those of us who did that in Coldharbour.

What did post-Morrowind toons do to earn tutorials that give a skill point that pre-Morrowind toons never had the ability to get? It's completely arbitrary.

When Gina said in the stickied post that they wanted all characters to have the same access to earnable skill points, they admitted they saw no rationale for preventing older characters from getting this skill point that has been denied to them for years.

If it's "just one point," what is exactly the harm in making sure all toons are treated equitably, as is explicitly intended by the devs?

GreenHere

virtus753 wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

And what did they do to earn a free skill point?

We all endured a "pick up this useless white item and hit something" tutorial. Even those of us who did that in Coldharbour.

What did post-Morrowind toons do to earn tutorials that give a skill point that pre-Morrowind toons never had the ability to get? It's completely arbitrary.

When Gina said in the stickied post that they wanted all characters to have the same access to earnable skill points, they admitted they saw no rationale for preventing older characters from getting this skill point that has been denied to them for years.

If it's "just one point," what is exactly the harm in making sure all toons are treated equitably, as is explicitly intended by the devs?

I can only speak for myself here, but I want to be clear that I have no problem whatsoever with people getting more skill points. ZOS could hand out 17 skill points to every single player in the world who wasn't me, and I wouldn't care at all. I'm not against what the OP is asking for; and if others are, that's on them.

My original question was just about my curiosity, more than anything else.

For literal years, people have been begging for one free point from this or that. I'm all for it. But I am genuinely curious if there's some obscure mechanic or skill line or something that is soaking up everyone's points that I might legitimately be simply unaware of. Getting enough skill points for literally everything you could need is among the easiest things in the game, as far as I can tell. So I then am led to assume I'm missing something.

That's all this is about for me, personally. I reckon a lot of the other people who might seem "against" it are simply curious what the years-long burning need for skill points (of all things) is about as well.

virtus753

GreenHere wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

And what did they do to earn a free skill point?

We all endured a "pick up this useless white item and hit something" tutorial. Even those of us who did that in Coldharbour.

What did post-Morrowind toons do to earn tutorials that give a skill point that pre-Morrowind toons never had the ability to get? It's completely arbitrary.

When Gina said in the stickied post that they wanted all characters to have the same access to earnable skill points, they admitted they saw no rationale for preventing older characters from getting this skill point that has been denied to them for years.

If it's "just one point," what is exactly the harm in making sure all toons are treated equitably, as is explicitly intended by the devs?

I can only speak for myself here, but I want to be clear that I have no problem whatsoever with people getting more skill points. ZOS could hand out 17 skill points to every single player in the world who wasn't me, and I wouldn't care at all. I'm not against what the OP is asking for; and if others are, that's on them.

My original question was just about my curiosity, more than anything else.

For literal years, people have been begging for one free point from this or that. I'm all for it. But I am genuinely curious if there's some obscure mechanic or skill line or something that is soaking up everyone's points that I might legitimately be simply unaware of. Getting enough skill points for literally everything you could need is among the easiest things in the game, as far as I can tell. So I then am led to assume I'm missing something.

That's all this is about for me, personally. I reckon a lot of the other people who might seem "against" it are simply curious what the years-long burning need for skill points (of all things) is about as well.

The practical aspect is really going to depend on the player. Since there aren’t enough skill points to cover every skill, you will have players ending up shy who want to invest in all the things, or even just invest very broadly. Some of the non-combat lines can be very expensive (like Antiquities and Scrying, which both came out together as part of the same system, not to mention all the other guilds), and if you want to be able to add more weapon lines so you can swap from heals to dps or dps to tank or some other combo on top of guild lines and crafting (which takes well over 100 points on its own), then things can definitely add up.

“Need” is going to be subjective here — some players want to be able to use a single toon for crafting and thieving and excavating and PvE and PvP and ALL the THINGS. Post-Morrowind toons shouldn’t be at any advantage in that respect simply by virtue of having been created after that update. (To put it another way, the post-Morrowind toons didn’t do anything to earn this permanent advantage over pre-Morrowind toons, whatever the impact. They were just created later, a fact over which we as players had no control and which is purely arbitrary to use as a basis for awarding an extra point.)

Personally, I think it’s fundamentally inequitable to say “you made this toon before Morrowind came out, which is not at all a thing you had a real choice about, much less a choice you would have made consciously or willingly, but you’re now permanently down an extra skill point by comparison anyhow.” I get that real life can definitely be arbitrary and unfair like that, but this isn’t a question of real life: it’s an artificial element of a video game (a genre of entertainment ironically often used to help cope with unfair things out of our control in real life) that is well within the control of the developers. They have also now come out and said explicitly they want characters to have equal access, which is exactly counter to the concept of keeping pre-Morrowind characters walled off from this skill point. I’m glad they say they want to be fair, but I have to wonder what would be stopping them from giving us that equal access they claim they want us to have when it is well within their power to do so.

For me it’s more the principle, and equal opportunity is a pretty damn big principle. When it comes to ensuring equal access, whatever it is, the question really needs to be “how can we make this equitable” rather than “what did you do to deserve equal treatment?” or “are you going to put that point to good use?” (That’s not against questions asked out of curiosity, like yours, but against questions born of the premise that equality has to be earned and justified.) But for many it will also be a practical matter, as long as there are more skills that can be taken than skill points which which to take them. I don’t know what exactly any given player would want to put their missing point in — I’d use it for the sword-and-board line myself — but to be honest it’s more important to my mind that players have access to it than that they put it to practical use. It’s not costing anyone else a thing if all toons were to be granted equal access to this skill point.

spartaxoxo

GreenHere wrote: »

No offense intended, but I am genuinely curious:

Why, though?


Aren't there like 1,043 skill points available, all in all? (slight exaggeration for illustration)

You can buy literally every skill and passive there is, and still have points left over, no? What do people who always request this for use them on? Are there additional uses for skill points I'm unaware of?

Again, I am being totally sincere and not sarcastic. I'm seriously feeling like there's something I'm missing here.

For PvE players, a lot of those skillpoints are too high a cost to be reasonably available to them. On top of that as more skills get added to the game, the more the skillpoints become desirable.

There's also just an issue of fairness. It feels wrong to be screwed out of a skillpoint that new players get because you supported the game from the beginning

Ackwalan

How about being able to do the starter quest on old characters?

kargen27

Lyserus wrote: »

You are going to do the respec for everyone an recalculate anyway

So, just run a check
If "did none of the chapter starting quest -> Then "one more skill point" plain and simple

Nothing for free. Instead they should allow you to run the character through the content to earn that skill point. Or not bother with it because one point isn't make or break considering how many are available.

N00BxV1

This has gone on for years. Unfortunately, every time this topic is brought up the forum warriors rush in with: "it's a non-issue, zos has more important things to worry about", "it's just one skill point, deal with it", or pretty much "I don't care so you shouldn't either." If you don't have an issue with something then that's fine, but you don't have to be a *** jerk and act like someone else's issue isn't a problem. Those precious forum stars don't mean *** to me because they got it from spamming every topic with useless comments.

I just want things to be fair and for my character that I've had since launch to be able to complete these chapter tutorials just like new characters. The loss of one skill point isn't the main issue - the disregard for our veteran characters is.

This could be an easy fix and would show that zos cares about their players. I would much rather see a bunch of smaller "easy" fixes instead of them wasting the next year and fix basically nothing...

etchedpixels

GreenHere wrote: »

Again, I am being totally sincere and not sarcastic. I'm seriously feeling like there's something I'm missing here.

This isn't the case. On my main I have all the crafting skills unlocked, all the armour and weapon skills (I can run healer, dd or tank), racial skills, psijic and some other stuff. I have every skyshard, every group delve, almost every dungeon - working on the last few. I don't have enough skill points to populate all the trees fully or to even consider scrying on that character.

If I was to play PvP with the char for a few years to level to grand warlord I might just about have enough but I'd still not be able to add werewolf or unlock all the thieves/asssasins line.

If the champion point system is going to favour a more multi-role option for end game characters then skill points is definitely going to become the bottleneck.

kargen27

N00BxV1 wrote: »

This has gone on for years. Unfortunately, every time this topic is brought up the forum warriors rush in with: "it's a non-issue, zos has more important things to worry about", "it's just one skill point, deal with it", or pretty much "I don't care so you shouldn't either." If you don't have an issue with something then that's fine, but you don't have to be a *** jerk and act like someone else's issue isn't a problem. Those precious forum stars don't mean *** to me because they got it from spamming every topic with useless comments.

I just want things to be fair and for my character that I've had since launch to be able to complete these chapter tutorials just like new characters. The loss of one skill point isn't the main issue - the disregard for our veteran characters is.

This could be an easy fix and would show that zos cares about their players. I would much rather see a bunch of smaller "easy" fixes instead of them wasting the next year and fix basically nothing...

I agree it would be nice to run our established characters through new tutorials. The OP specifically mentioned the skill point though so that is why most the posts also focused on the skill point.

linlilia

I checked on both servers, and it looks like they did give it to me.

Starlight_Whisper

GreenHere wrote: »

No offense intended, but I am genuinely curious:

Why, though?


Aren't there like 1,043 skill points available, all in all? (slight exaggeration for illustration)

You can buy literally every skill and passive there is, and still have points left over, no? What do people who always request this for use them on? Are there additional uses for skill points I'm unaware of?

Again, I am being totally sincere and not sarcastic. I'm seriously feeling like there's something I'm missing here.

Balance...other characters have one more skill point simply because they started later then me