Core and future problems with ESO and yearlong chapters.

Jaxious79

Even at $75 that will equal less than $1/hr of entertainment. When sports come back you can spend a couple hundred bucks for 3 hrs.

There is nothing wrong with the price.

Yamenstein

I personally don't mind the price. I think companions will be awesome and add more to the game. Is it exactly what I wanted ? No. Is it better than another new class ? I believe so! But that's just my opinion, and sometimes these chapters won't have what I want and that's fine. I'll still get a new zone with new content, dungeons and sets to try out. I'll still try out companions and the new trial. I'm hoping the Q4 DLC will have a new skill line. But we will see. I'm over new classes. I want new ways to customise current classes. New skills that set my character apart from other ones.

Iccotak

Aertew wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

Aertew wrote: »

etchedpixels wrote: »

Aertew wrote: »

1. The lag and many glitches in the game are rooted in the source code of the game. Either because it was rushed, or wasnt prepared to handle so many updates.

2. The people at ZOS just ignore it, and try to apply quick fixes that only add to the problem.

You've never I suspect worked on large old complex system code. The game is old. It was designed in a world where the numbers playing now were not imaginable. It seems to predate a lot of stuff considered routine today (like being able to cope with version skew for example). I doubt the "fixes" are "quick" either, but probably really tedious and difficult. It's like trying to fix a design problem in an aeroplane - without landing.

The bigger reality is that any new engine would have to be written and would presumably be an MMO engine revision of whatever is going to power the next elder scrolls game in 2030 or whenever it finally appears. So I can't see any of the really big issues buried in the core of the game getting fixed properly until then, and at that point if you have to rework everything for the new engine - would you not put ESO onto maintenance only (no new story etc) and launch something new ?

Alot of people have complained about the game being laggy and crashing. So yes I think alot of people would want them to fix the game a ton if it ment going on maintanance with no new content.

Also...

etchedpixels wrote: »

Aertew wrote: »

1. The lag and many glitches in the game are rooted in the source code of the game. Either because it was rushed, or wasnt prepared to handle so many updates.

2. The people at ZOS just ignore it, and try to apply quick fixes that only add to the problem.

You've never I suspect worked on large old complex system code. The game is old. It was designed in a world where the numbers playing now were not imaginable. It seems to predate a lot of stuff considered routine today (like being able to cope with version skew for example). I doubt the "fixes" are "quick" either, but probably really tedious and difficult. It's like trying to fix a design problem in an aeroplane - without landing.

You do realize ESO isnt that old? Only like 6 years?

OSRS has gone aroune 13 years. WoW is around 16. Even Black Desert online is around 6 years and is still going strong with no problems.

Like I said before. Either the base code for ESO was done badly. Or it wasnt ment to last long term.

ESO had been in development since Oblivion 🤦‍♂️ Yes it’s old

Holy *** i googled and it was in development for 7 years? How and why?

After Skyrim’s cultural phenomenon level success ZOS has to do a major rework of ESO.
From Art direction, Ui, implementation of First Person camera, combat, player models....Everything.

ESO’s combat is still more akin to Oblivion, hence how spells work in the game and there isn’t a “1hand & spell” skill line as of yet.

Even to this day people still want “Skyrim Online” and are looking for ESO to fill that niche.

It’s a wonder they didn’t scrap and start over entirely with using the Skyrim engine instead.
By then it was too late to turn back and they had to make do with what they had.

Fallout 76 was basically an experiment to see if their engine could be used for an online game.

People still clamor for the Skyrim experience with multiplayer because as this thread said:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/399047/why-do-skyrim-players-dislike-eso

skyrim players wanted an TES/Skyrim game with multiplayer elements but what they got was an MMO with TES elements

Snowstrider

No i dont think i would have played ESO if it wasnt an elder scrolls game and I agree with pretty much everything you said and would like to add classes to the things other MMOs does better.

In ESO the classes just doesnt feel unique at all and they lack identity when everyone goes for non class skills anyway.. I like that you can kinda do everything with each class (even if some are better at certain things) but it kinda makes the class system pointless in a way.. they could either go full no class and custom class or have proper classes like other mmos with great identity and powerfantasy where some classes can do stuff no one else can etc

Iccotak

Snowstrider wrote: »

No i dont think i would have played ESO if it wasnt an elder scrolls game and I agree with pretty much everything you said and would like to add classes to the things other MMOs does better.

In ESO the classes just doesnt feel unique at all and they lack identity when everyone goes for non class skills anyway.. I like that you can kinda do everything with each class (even if some are better at certain things) but it kinda makes the class system pointless in a way.. they could either go full no class and custom class or have proper classes like other mmos with great identity and powerfantasy where some classes can do stuff no one else can etc

tbf ZOS has stated that although all classes can do all roles that does not meant that they are all optimal at all roles

Dragonknight will always be a better tank than Templar but the Templar will always be a better healer than the Dragonknight.

Iccotak

What ESO used to be
ESO was originally a classic MMO that was basically ripping off WoW in terms of gameplay and style.
Understand that they had to basically break it down and remake it into something that resembled the single player elder scroll games.


Honestly it's one of those things you try not to think about because you realize someone thought that this was a good idea.
When someone in that company should have known or realized WAY earlier that people wanted the single player game with multiplayer.
I think for many people this is why ESO will never feel like it's reaching its true potential as part of the Elder Scroll games in their eyes, because it is still held back by its poor mmo roots.

AlexanderDeLarge

Previous years have veered into "almost not worth it" territory personally. They really should just rework the schedule and sell the entire year all in one package to everybody. If they reworked the schedule, they could do something like this where you could sell the entire year upfront and all players would have access to everything throughout the year.
Q1 - new chapter
Q2 - dungeon DLC
Q3 - zone DLC
Q4 - dungeon DLC
I'd pay a full $60 for that.

AlexanderDeLarge

Also, I would even advocate for dropping one of the dungeon DLCs and use that quarter expanding/reworking existing systems. Justice System 2.0? Veteran overland? Let's do it. I feel like the only reason content like Heists and Sacraments haven't been revisited in the past is because they're always "working on the next thing" and don't have the time.

I love the DLC dungeons as much as anyone here but let's be real, we have enough and if it comes at the expense of being able to work on what we already have and adding more to it, I'd gladly give two dungeons a year up.

Mastery404

I do not understand how they continue to push chapters and solo content with TES:6 around the corner.

TESO should be working on expanding and improving the systems that it already has. Like the combat.

Jaxious79

Snowstrider wrote: »

No i dont think i would have played ESO if it wasnt an elder scrolls game and I agree with pretty much everything you said and would like to add classes to the things other MMOs does better.

In ESO the classes just doesnt feel unique at all and they lack identity when everyone goes for non class skills anyway.. I like that you can kinda do everything with each class (even if some are better at certain things) but it kinda makes the class system pointless in a way.. they could either go full no class and custom class or have proper classes like other mmos with great identity and powerfantasy where some classes can do stuff no one else can etc

And nobody would play swtor if it wasn't star wars or Ffxiv if it wasn't Final Fantasy or WoW if it was Warcraft or LOTRO if it wasn't Lord of the rings I can go on and on.

I never understood this complaint.

Iccotak

Mastery404 wrote: »

I do not understand how they continue to push chapters and solo content with TES:6 around the corner.

TESO should be working on expanding and improving the systems that it already has. Like the combat.

By around the corner you mean another 4-6 years? 😆🤣

Auztinito

Jaxious79 wrote: »

And nobody would play swtor if it wasn't star wars or Ffxiv if it wasn't Final Fantasy or WoW if it was Warcraft or LOTRO if it wasn't Lord of the rings I can go on and on.

I never understood this complaint.

[snip]

A lot of players like SWTOR for a lot reasons besides it being Star Wars. It doesn’t retain player base off Star Wars alone.

SWTOR taps into the old BioWare games in an MMO space. It has fully voiced characters, cutscenes, companions, branching stories, and ect. It taps into that market not just because it’s Star Wars.

FFXIV isn’t popular because Final Fantasy. I mean how do you explain the success they’ve achieved with Shadowbringer and Heavensward expansions. Not to mention the Hugh hyp going around for Endwalker. It obviously taps into the FF market but it brings in numerous types of players because it has content for most players. They literally have weekly fashion contests in game. It’s honestly one of the few MMOs where players just hang out in a public area without toxicity.

Elder Scrolls seems be popular for two reasons. It’s questing and solo experience and it being a online Elder Scrolls game. Not many players enjoy the current combat system (I’m one of them).

[Edited to remove Baiting]

Auztinito

@OP This game deserves a overhaul on things like combat systems, AI, Textures/Models, Dungeons, and ect.

From a dev POV, I assume they’re kind of stuck with what they have and would probably have to forego content drops or reboot ESO to get some of the overhauls many players want. I doubt it’s not them listening but more they’ve put themselves into a corner.

Honestly, I’d be content with them doing a ESO 2.0 where they overhaul many systems like the following:

Dungeon Content

Open World Content

AI Behavior

Combat Mechanics / Flow

Future Content Drops

Class and Skill Overhaul

Upgrade Overall Aesthetics (Animations/SFX/VFX/Graphics/Textures)

Better Dev Cycle / Schedule

Fallout 76 is in a better position in comparison. Fallout 76 plays like a online Fallout game whereas this is the opposite. I have the strange feeling that this games dev cycle started out as a tab-target but was changed into an action game last minute.

Faulgor

Auztinito wrote: »

Fallout 76 is in a better position in comparison. Fallout 76 plays like a online Fallout game whereas this is the opposite. I have the strange feeling that this games dev cycle started out as a tab-target but was changed into an action game last minute.

Don't need to have a feeling, that's literally what happened.

The whole design process was pretty much a mess. And that's even before considering how much the game changed after release.
I know Matt Firor agreed to lead the new studio on the condition they would design ESO around AvAvA PvP, but I have no clue what else they thought an Elder Scrolls MMO would have to look like. But here we are, and it's not going to change.

Iccotak

Auztinito wrote: »

Jaxious79 wrote: »

And nobody would play swtor if it wasn't star wars or Ffxiv if it wasn't Final Fantasy or WoW if it was Warcraft or LOTRO if it wasn't Lord of the rings I can go on and on.

I never understood this complaint.

You seem to be taking this criticism by OP personally.

A lot of players like SWTOR for a lot reasons besides it being Star Wars. It doesn’t retain player base off Star Wars alone.

SWTOR taps into the old BioWare games in an MMO space. It has fully voiced characters, cutscenes, companions, branching stories, and ect. It taps into that market not just because it’s Star Wars.

FFXIV isn’t popular because Final Fantasy. I mean how do you explain the success they’ve achieved with Shadowbringer and Heavensward expansions. Not to mention the Hugh hyp going around for Endwalker. It obviously taps into the FF market but it brings in numerous types of players because it has content for most players. They literally have weekly fashion contests in game. It’s honestly one of the few MMOs where players just hang out in a public area without toxicity.

Elder Scrolls seems be popular for two reasons. It’s questing and solo experience and it being a online Elder Scrolls game. Not many players enjoy the current combat system (I’m one of them).

Auztinito wrote: »

@OP This game deserves a overhaul on things like combat systems, AI, Textures/Models, Dungeons, and ect.

From a dev POV, I assume they’re kind of stuck with what they have and would probably have to forego content drops or reboot ESO to get some of the overhauls many players want. I doubt it’s not them listening but more they’ve put themselves into a corner.

Honestly, I’d be content with them doing a ESO 2.0 where they overhaul many systems like the following:

Dungeon Content

Open World Content

AI Behavior

Combat Mechanics / Flow

Future Content Drops

Class and Skill Overhaul

Upgrade Overall Aesthetics (Animations/SFX/VFX/Graphics/Textures)

Better Dev Cycle / Schedule

Fallout 76 is in a better position in comparison. Fallout 76 plays like a online Fallout game whereas this is the opposite. I have the strange feeling that this games dev cycle started out as a tab-target but was changed into an action game last minute.

Yeah we never got the “Online Skyrim” that we wanted mainly because the three alliance war is a big center concept of the game. In order to have those kinds of player numbers I’m not sure the Skyrim engine could handle it

skyrim players wanted an TES/Skyrim game with multiplayer elements but what they got was an MMO with TES elements

EsoGoing

Aertew wrote: »

I'm glad they announced that they are FINALLY upgrading the servers.

Hey, can I just ask where this was announced? This is big news but seems that I missed it.

ectoplasmicninja

EsoGoing wrote: »

Hey, can I just ask where this was announced? This is big news but seems that I missed it.

It was said in the Blackwood reveal stream. Note that this is not the same as expanding server capacity, and they don't expect it to solve the lag problems.

Jaxious79

Auztinito wrote: »

Jaxious79 wrote: »

And nobody would play swtor if it wasn't star wars or Ffxiv if it wasn't Final Fantasy or WoW if it was Warcraft or LOTRO if it wasn't Lord of the rings I can go on and on.

I never understood this complaint.

[snip]

A lot of players like SWTOR for a lot reasons besides it being Star Wars. It doesn’t retain player base off Star Wars alone.

SWTOR taps into the old BioWare games in an MMO space. It has fully voiced characters, cutscenes, companions, branching stories, and ect. It taps into that market not just because it’s Star Wars.

FFXIV isn’t popular because Final Fantasy. I mean how do you explain the success they’ve achieved with Shadowbringer and Heavensward expansions. Not to mention the Hugh hyp going around for Endwalker. It obviously taps into the FF market but it brings in numerous types of players because it has content for most players. They literally have weekly fashion contests in game. It’s honestly one of the few MMOs where players just hang out in a public area without toxicity.

Elder Scrolls seems be popular for two reasons. It’s questing and solo experience and it being a online Elder Scrolls game. Not many players enjoy the current combat system (I’m one of them).

Exactly how did you come to the conclusion I took something personal by making one post in this thread. [snip]

Very few people would be playing SWTOR if it wasnt in the Star Wars Universe, same with FF. People wouldn't watch Rogue One or the Mandalorian if it wasnt in the star wars universe.

Saying people only play something because of the universe is standard among ALL media types it is nothing new to Elder Scrolls.

[Edited to remove Back and Forth]

Auztinito

Jaxious79 wrote: »

Exactly how did you come to the conclusion I took something personal by making one post in this thread. How about you leave the personal attacks out of this discussion.

Very few people would be playing SWTOR if it wasnt in the Star Wars Universe, same with FF. People wouldn't watch Rogue One or the Mandalorian if it wasnt in the star wars universe.

Saying people only play something because of the universe is standard among ALL media types it is nothing new to Elder Scrolls.

What if I told you that they’re market isn’t solely based on branding but actual game feature, communities, mechanics, and ect.

This line of reasoning only applies to very few games. You haven’t answered the question I brought up in my response. If brand name was what sold FFXIV then why did it make such a high comeback from being a complete disaster with A Realm Reborn? What about the success they gained from Heavensward and Shadowbringer expansions? What if I told you FFXIV was my first FF game? It wasn’t branding that brought me to it. It’s not branding that brings WoW players to it. If it was brand that sold the game, it’d be reflected quite easily in its content and features.

As for SWTOR, BioWare’s The Old Republic RPGs from of PS2/Xbox era market is what brought those players in. It didn’t do well be as Star Wars. If that was the case, you’d see next to nothing to appeal to other players to pick up the game. Brands make up a small amount player based in games.

In ESO, it’s different because there is next to no other reasons ESO is stated to be good in majority of player’s opinions. As I said before, tons of players enjoy the questing experience because it taps into that Elder Scrolls game vibe. You don’t see many players praising the combat or PvP (except for this forum). What’s that tell you.

Jaxious79

Auztinito wrote: »

Jaxious79 wrote: »

Exactly how did you come to the conclusion I took something personal by making one post in this thread. How about you leave the personal attacks out of this discussion.

Very few people would be playing SWTOR if it wasnt in the Star Wars Universe, same with FF. People wouldn't watch Rogue One or the Mandalorian if it wasnt in the star wars universe.

Saying people only play something because of the universe is standard among ALL media types it is nothing new to Elder Scrolls.

What if I told you that they’re market isn’t solely based on branding but actual game feature, communities, mechanics, and ect.

This line of reasoning only applies to very few games. You answered the question I brought up in my response. If brand name was what sold FFXIV then why did it make such a high comeback from being a complete disaster with A Realm Reborn? What about the success they gained from Heavensward and Shadowbringer expansions? What if I told you FFXIV was my first FF game? It wasn’t branding that brought me to it. It’s not branding that brings WoW players to it. If it was brand that sold the game, it’d be reflected quite easily in its content and features.

As for SWTOR, BioWare’s The Old Republic RPGs from of PS2/Xbox era market is what brought those players in. It didn’t do well be as Star Wars. If that was the case, you’d see next to nothing to appeal to other players to pick up the game. Brands make up a small amount player based in games.

In ESO, it’s different because there is next to no other reasons ESO is stated to be good in majority of player’s opinions. As I said before, tons of players enjoy the questing experience because it taps into that Elder Scrolls game vibe. You don’t see many players praising the combat or PvP (except for this forum). What’s that tell you.

You are wrong games such as FF, SW and ESO were made based on the brand and marketed based off the brand.

Watch the launch trailer FFXIV Reborn. Nothing about features or content all about FINAL FANTASY.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dc5HY3KEqug

How about SWTOR Launch Trailer? The game was sold off of Star Wars nothing about features and content.

A poll from when the game released shows only 11% dislike the combat.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/78351/do-you-enjoy-the-combat-in-eso

Another quick google search shows just as many positive post/comments/reviews about the good combat as bad combat.

What that tells me is you really have no idea what "A ton of players" think or why they play ESO.

psychotrip

All I know is I get way more for less in any other MMO I play. Interpret that as you will.

LadyNalcarya

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

Aertew wrote: »

I dont understand why they created companions as that removes the idea of players working together in a MMO. Not only that it heavily discourages it.

That is just a hyperbolic falsehood.
It doesn't remove anything, nor discourage anything.

It grants an OPTION. Many of the people who are going to use that option weren't ever going to take part in group activity, anyway, so it removes nothing from you, regardless of them being able to play a MMO, or if people like you had your way and solo-play was prohibited in a MMO.
There are still a huge number of players who are into group play. Whether solo-players are allowed to exist in the game or not, you aren't missing out.

Then there are lots of other people, such as myself, who do take part in group-play, but it isn't their sole focus. They don't ALWAYS want to group while they play.
But you would remove that option from them, because YOU think that an MMO should only be for group play.

There is room for both solo players and group players in a vast open-world "MMO." If there wasn't, then companies wouldn't design them that way.
Solo players do not affect your ability to play the game in a group, so why do you feel that everyone who plays a game needs to be forced to play the way you think they should?

I just hope the companions will be less obnoxious than pets. Otherwise they will affect players who don't want to use them: multiple copies of the same npc would hurt immersion (even if they will look like generic npc), they would increase lag and block objects the same way bears do.

Yuffie91

I have not bought a chapter since Elseweyr and will not buy one again unless they are up to Morrowind standards. I loved that chapter so much. I don't play trials as I'm a new mom so most of my time is spent questing. I was not happy when I was finished with this after an hour in Elseweyr. Unless they are adding a lot of time to quests I will not be buying chapters again and will just play them when they get included in eso+.

Emmagoldman

I understand things being lacking. Nobody could have really planned a pandemic landing on their lap. I've never worked in a game study but I bet there is a lot of back and forth sharing and even brainstorming at lunch. Lets design a chapter over zoom meets. Blah....

Im not excited about companions but I'm ok with new features and I have to imagine some people will love it. Though its not for me, it is new game modes which is the model I want to see (such as housing, jewelry ect) *dont care for housing either but its good for the game.

From the pvp side, somone else mentioned that there needs to be more. Either small pvp objectives and zones or at minimum, new maps and objectives.

I'll be flexible this year with the pandemic and new hardware but its loooooooong overdue

Scardan

Aertew wrote: »

I dont understand why they created companions as that removes the idea of players working together in a MMO.

This is a stupid rumor and nothing more. Show me that the battle pet will replace human comrades for social active player...in trials, for example? In PvP? In vet dungeons (which players actually do solo and still group up with other people for fun).

Honestly, objectively, it won't change anything.

Aertew wrote: »

What about a bard? Ive seen alot of people ask for that. It would actually be really unique.

I can tell you. Elder Scrolls is not 5E D&D. Bards don't perform spells with songs. Bards are storytellers & songwriters, that's it.

Etc. Animation cancelling makes controls feel responsible and adds action into combat. It should not be fixed.

Aertew wrote: »

Also I want everyone here to be honest with me. Would any of you play this game if it wasn't a Elder Scrolls game?

Yes. This MMO is in my experience better than most of the existing competitors. I only wish we had combat like Vindictus has.