Adamantine Tower is now a game mechanic gimmick, and (still) looks Ayleid

  • TheRimOfTheSky
    TheRimOfTheSky
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    Also can we talk about how Daggerfall perfected how the islands should look all the way back in 1996? They looked so interesting and huge

    DF-map-Isle_of_Balfiera.png
    6y3nimgapnm4.png

    If eso makes the zone in this ugly shape I'm gonna be so disappointed

    hxyaxhcctio9.png
  • Aliyavana
    Aliyavana
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    They went with the most lazy justification to allow for asset reuse
  • TheRimOfTheSky
    TheRimOfTheSky
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    Aliyavana wrote: »
    They went with the most lazy justification to allow for asset reuse

    Oh definitely. Hope they pick up on this and fix everything soon
  • AlboMalefica
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    This whole thread makes me sad, I've been dreaming of the Adamantine tower & how it can be made into a trial for years
  • Froil
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    I would've loved Balfiera as a city/hub location for some chapter where we go into a dangerous daedric plane. Oh well...

    And I swear I read somewhere that WGT looks like Ada-mantia because it was made in imitation by the Ayleids, rather than "oh it's lazy they just reused the WGT model instead of making something". So like duh they look the same.
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  • RaddlemanNumber7
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    An obvious sequence presents itself:

    0: The Divines build the Adamantine Tower. It is in a "Divine" style. This is the metallic-looking tower we are now being shown on Balfiera.

    1: The Ayleids under the influence, if not the direction, of Magna-Ge build the White Gold Tower in imitation of the Adamantine Tower. They copy the original "Divine" style of the Adamantine Tower but have to use inferior materials for the fabric.

    Things to note:

    The style of White Gold Tower and the rest of the Imperial city is unlike the style of any Ayl0ied structure we encounter in the game.

    Although the Direnni now occupy the site of the Adamantine Tower it is clear from lore that they did not build it and do not know how to use it. Even though they have built around the Tower they are essentially just squatting there.
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  • Enodoc
    Enodoc
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    Froil wrote: »
    And I swear I read somewhere that WGT looks like Ada-mantia because it was made in imitation by the Ayleids, rather than "oh it's lazy they just reused the WGT model instead of making something". So like duh they look the same.
    That's true yeah, but WGT is clearly made of a similar material to the rest of Imperial City, which is very similar (if not the same) material that the Ayleids made all their cities out of. Adamantia is supposed to be metallic.

    As said above:
    They copy the original "Divine" style of the Adamantine Tower but have to use inferior materials for the fabric.
    Edited by Enodoc on April 12, 2021 7:47PM
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  • Ratzkifal
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    This whole thread makes me sad, I've been dreaming of the Adamantine tower & how it can be made into a trial for years

    If TES6 is indeed the Illiac Bay and prominently features the Adamantine tower, then be prepared for even more disappointment. Bethesda is working together with ZOS on things of huge lore importance, so if ZOS ends up making it a copy of White-Gold then you can bet that Bethesda actually approved of that and that TES6 will also feature boring old White-Gold 2.0 just for continuity (ironically).
    This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.
  • psychotrip
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    Oh definitely. Hope they pick up on this and fix everything soon

    They won't.
    Edited by psychotrip on April 15, 2021 10:21AM
    No one is saying there aren't multiple interpretations of the lore, and we're not arguing that ESO did it "wrong".

    We're arguing that they decided to go for the most boring, mundane, seen-before interpretation possible. Like they almost always do, unless they can ride on the coat-tails of past games.
  • TheRimOfTheSky
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    There's some further confirmation that this is probably Direnni Tower :/https://blog.uesp.net/blackwood-preview-early-access/

    There’s a new tutorial, as usual for a new Chapter, but they are doing something interesting this time around. After completing the new tutorial and learning the basics of gameplay (As well as some interesting new Direnni lore), you’ll enter a portal room.

    From there, you can decide where in Tamriel you want to start your journey. If you want to do the main story first, you can go to your faction homeland (or any of the other alliances if you like). If you prefer something newer, you can start off in any of the Chapter starting zones as well.

    However, this doesn’t mean you will get to play any of the older tutorials. For now, it’s only this one, but getting to choose a starting zone after that is a great change.


    I'm... not hopeful that any of this new "Direnni lore" will be any good
  • TheRimOfTheSky
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    some info from another source about the tutorial:

    The room you're in with the portals is called "The Keywright's Gallery" and doesn't appear to be in the tower itself but in the surrounding structure
    The glowing stone column they only refer to as a "Magical Helix" [...] you're still in the ruins around it as it appears. There's actually no stone in it either, just a spinning wall of bricks
    it's very "tutorial" heavy, like mostly it's lots of "now try to use a weapon, ok sneak away from this golem" But you start meeting a Direnni scholar/spy who is studying the ruins around the tower and apparently you and a Daedra appeared through a portal and it setup shop in the ruins and was causing mischief.

    The fact that they are going to go on the outside of the tower greatly worries me, since it likely means the island will be very small and the copy-pasted exterior of White-Gold Tower will be used >:(
  • TheRimOfTheSky
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    7.0.0 Patch Notes are up...
    New Tutorial – The Isle of Balfiera
    • Begin your journey on the mysterious Isle of Balfiera – the newest tutorial in The Elder Scrolls Online. Among the old Direnni ruins, strange portals have begun to open and savage beasts emerge to infest the island. You must aid the mage, Norianwe of Clan Direnni, and find a way to shut down the portals and escape!
    • The Isle of Balfiera is now the default tutorial for all versions of ESO. Upon completion of the tutorial quest, you have the option to begin your journey in Tamriel via the portal room to any of the previous Chapter starting locations (as long as you own the associated Chapter) or base game Alliance starting locations.
    • If you are unsure where to start your adventure, Norianwe will provide a summary of each region before you set out.
    Choose carefully! Once you begin your adventure, you may not return to the Isle of Balfiera on that character.

    Balfiera doesn't sound like a returnable zone, more Norg-Tzel/Grayhome/stirk than Artaeum for example, I hate this already
    Edited by TheRimOfTheSky on April 20, 2021 12:22AM
  • ealdwin
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    Currently doing a run of the new tutorial, and will update this as I find interesting things to note:

    A few observations on the new tutorial and Balfiera

    (1) The tower isn't 100% Ayleid/White-Gold. From afar it appears so, but on a "closer" inspection it appears that while the general design of the upper tower exterior bears semblance to Tower 1, it isn't a re-used asset. Tower 0 has a slightly different look to the styling... it appears set to match the Ancient Altmer tileset, and therefore the Direnni complex built around it, but not quite 100% Ancient Altmer.

    (2) The flora around the tower, thankfully, does not appear to be the Summerset Isles flora. A concern I had was that they would have resorted to using entirely Summerset assets on Balfiera. On first impression, the flora seems to be closer to that of Stormhaven (as it should).

    (3) It does appear to be a "sub-zone" of Balfiera proper. If from the map one zooms out to full view of Tamriel, and then proceeds to click on Balfiera, they will not be able to.

    Edit 1: The subzone doesn't even take us to the tower-proper. Without getting too into spoilers, what was thought earlier in this thread to be potentially the zero-stone is not. It's not even connected.

    (4) There are some bits of lore regarding the Direnni as well as other topics. So, not just an empty tutorial. There could certainly be more, and with only a sub-zone of Balfiera shown, there could always be a return to the isle.
    Edited by ealdwin on April 20, 2021 5:54PM
  • TheRimOfTheSky
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    Climate being the same as stormhaven/glenumbra is somewhat disappointing, its supposed to be different (tropical/mountainous) from High Rock due to its proximity to Hammerfell's deserts ON-place-Balfiera_02.jpg (palm trees, beaches)
    DF-map-Iliac_Bay_Climate.png

    (climate map)
  • phantasmalD
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    As someone who played TES2, Balfiera was temperate to mountainous. Not a single palm tree, it was all oaks, ash, birch and pine trees. During colder months it was even snowing.

    I don't know how you are reading the climate map because there's not an inch of white-grey on Balfiera. (which marks the desert climate)
    The smaller chain is light green, marking the temperate climate (used for the majority of High Rock) while the largest island is light pink, marking the mountainous areas (used for Wrothgarian and Dragontail mountains).
    [And the deep green was a sort of swampy/jungle-y tropical rainforest]

    So unless I missed a lore book stating otherwise, it's supposed to have the same base climate as Daggerfall/Wayrest with the Direnni tower sitting on top of a smallish mountain.
    Edited by phantasmalD on April 23, 2021 11:07PM
  • Ratzkifal
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    Enodoc wrote: »
    Yep, can confirm that they have addressed most of the concerns. The tower model used in the preview has been updated, it is no longer a direct reuse of the White-Gold Tower asset.
    7borpi2tab27.png

    Still doesn't look like it's made of Adamantium as it doesn't look metallic - looks like Direnni stone (although the fluting might be metal even if the outer bit isn't), so I would say close enough.

    The room we go into is the Keywright's Gallery and not the Foundation Vault, so that's fine, and the asset that was previously called the Zero Stone is now just referred to as an arcane helix, so no problem there either.

    The fact that Balfiera has been used as a level select gimmick remains an issue, but since they haven't actually used Adamantine Tower itself, there's still scope for that to appear in the future.

    All in all, lorewise, good job ZOS! I will cover the tutorial and the level select feature itself elsewhere.

    I tried my best to get out of bounds in the tutorial to get a closer look at it - unsuccessfully. It really doesn't look metalic but you really would only be able to tell from up close. Anyone who has seen copper roofs knows that a lot of metals that are exposed to the elements lose their sheen over time so it not looking like metal might actually be completely expected (only that I would expect Dawn era materials of divine origin to not behave like regular metal and potentially keep their sheen forever).
    Maybe someone who has more experience with the endless checkers board behind the horizon can help?
    This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.
  • psychotrip
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    So instead of asset reuse, they just spent money on a new design that looks nearly identical.

    Somehow, this is even more disappointing. How many times has The Elder Scrolls hyped up a mythical building only for it to be a grey stone pillar? I'm just tired of this bland, repetitive art style ESO seems obsessed with.
    Climate being the same as stormhaven/glenumbra is somewhat disappointing, its supposed to be different (tropical/mountainous) from High Rock due to its proximity to Hammerfell's deserts ON-place-Balfiera_02.jpg (palm trees, beaches)
    DF-map-Iliac_Bay_Climate.png

    (climate map)

    Dude, the climate of Tamriel hasn't made any logical sense since Oblivion. We may as well just throw our hands up and say a wizard did it. And why have a tropical environment when you can have another temperate forest? Its not like Tamriel has enough of those already.
    Edited by psychotrip on April 24, 2021 4:23PM
    No one is saying there aren't multiple interpretations of the lore, and we're not arguing that ESO did it "wrong".

    We're arguing that they decided to go for the most boring, mundane, seen-before interpretation possible. Like they almost always do, unless they can ride on the coat-tails of past games.
  • OtarTheMad
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    I can say that after doing the new tutorial on PTS and seeing the tower I feel better about it too.

    We also have to keep in mind that we didn't see much of it internally so if it has many levels like WGT does,
    and I think the tutorial hinted at that,
    then ZOS could easily come back here for a trial or DLC dungeon.
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  • Iccotak
    Iccotak
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    psychotrip wrote: »
    So instead of asset reuse, they just spent money on a new design that looks nearly identical.

    Somehow, this is even more disappointing. How many times has The Elder Scrolls hyped up a mythical building only for it to be a grey stone pillar? I'm just tired of this bland, repetitive art style ESO seems obsessed with.

    It does not look like a grey stone tower - from what I see it actually does look metallic to me

    That said it's still not a good tutorial.

    At the start it's established that you randomly fell out of a portal with a Harvester following in close pursuit.

    However, that doesn't make any sense actually because that provides no context for new players.
    "Wait I came out of a portal and along with a Monster?"

    It would make sense if Balfiera was the New Starter Island that you arrive at after escaping Coldharbour. I could see ZOS wanting to give players a more interesting starter island after Coldharbour, which was by far the best introduction.

    However, if Zos were to do this then the island would have to be expanded to have various side quests and locations, also have a wayshrine.
  • psychotrip
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    Climate being the same as stormhaven/glenumbra is somewhat disappointing, its supposed to be different (tropical/mountainous) from High Rock due to its proximity to Hammerfell's deserts ON-place-Balfiera_02.jpg (palm trees, beaches)
    DF-map-Iliac_Bay_Climate.png

    (climate map)

    Dude, the climate of Tamriel hasn't made any logical sense since Oblivion. We may as well just throw our hands up and say a wizard did it at this point.
    Iccotak wrote: »
    psychotrip wrote: »
    So instead of asset reuse, they just spent money on a new design that looks nearly identical.

    Somehow, this is even more disappointing. How many times has The Elder Scrolls hyped up a mythical building only for it to be a grey stone pillar? I'm just tired of this bland, repetitive art style ESO seems obsessed with.

    It does not look like a grey stone tower - from what I see it actually does look metallic to me

    That said it's still not a good tutorial.

    At the start it's established that you randomly fell out of a portal with a Harvester following in close pursuit.

    However, that doesn't make any sense actually because that provides no context for new players.
    "Wait I came out of a portal and along with a Monster?"

    It would make sense if Balfiera was the New Starter Island that you arrive at after escaping Coldharbour. I could see ZOS wanting to give players a more interesting starter island after Coldharbour, which was by far the best introduction.

    However, if Zos were to do this then the island would have to be expanded to have various side quests and locations, also have a wayshrine.

    Sure, grey metal. Feels like that doesn't really change my point about how repetitive ESO buildings and environments can be, but accuracy is important.
    No one is saying there aren't multiple interpretations of the lore, and we're not arguing that ESO did it "wrong".

    We're arguing that they decided to go for the most boring, mundane, seen-before interpretation possible. Like they almost always do, unless they can ride on the coat-tails of past games.
  • Iccotak
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    I mean this -
    7borpi2tab27.png

    is clearly different from this
    1600px-ON-interior-White-Gold_Tower_03.jpg

    Remember that WGT is based on the Direnni Tower. The shape is still there but there are clear differences in materials, finer details, several architectural choices (like the top & base of the tower), and overall construction between the two.

    I got my own issues with re-skinning content but in this case it is actually in lore for the towers to be a similar shape. Perhaps one day we will get a closer look
  • psychotrip
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    Iccotak wrote: »
    I mean this -
    7borpi2tab27.png

    is clearly different from this
    1600px-ON-interior-White-Gold_Tower_03.jpg

    Remember that WGT is based on the Direnni Tower. The shape is still there but there are clear differences in materials, finer details, several architectural choices (like the top & base of the tower), and overall construction between the two.

    I got my own issues with re-skinning content but in this case it is actually in lore for the towers to be a similar shape. Perhaps one day we will get a closer look

    Right but remember that this is a game made by people who determine the art direction. Sure, we know the towers are all based on adamantine, but who said that had to be so literal?

    We've clearly seen that many of them have their own unique look. Some of them are trees and mountains for Christ's sake. Why not get more creative with the most important tower of all?

    This is just a recurring theme with ESO since its inception: choosing the most basic, surface-level interpretation of the lore possible. Unless they have a previous game to piggyback off of (see: Morrowind) they just seem committed to making Tamriel as plain and normal as possible.

    So yeah we got another grey building in a generic forest. Woo.
    Edited by psychotrip on April 30, 2021 2:25PM
    No one is saying there aren't multiple interpretations of the lore, and we're not arguing that ESO did it "wrong".

    We're arguing that they decided to go for the most boring, mundane, seen-before interpretation possible. Like they almost always do, unless they can ride on the coat-tails of past games.
  • Ratzkifal
    Ratzkifal
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    psychotrip wrote: »
    Iccotak wrote: »
    I mean this -
    7borpi2tab27.png

    is clearly different from this
    1600px-ON-interior-White-Gold_Tower_03.jpg

    Remember that WGT is based on the Direnni Tower. The shape is still there but there are clear differences in materials, finer details, several architectural choices (like the top & base of the tower), and overall construction between the two.

    I got my own issues with re-skinning content but in this case it is actually in lore for the towers to be a similar shape. Perhaps one day we will get a closer look

    Right but remember that this is a game made by people who determine the art direction. Sure, we know the towers are all based on adamantine, but who said that had to be so literal?

    We've clearly seen that many of them have their own unique look. Some of them are trees and mountains for Christ's sake. Why not get more creative with the most important tower of all?

    This is just a recurring theme with ESO since its inception: choosing the most basic, surface-level interpretation of the lore possible. Unless they have a previous game to piggyback off of (see: Morrowind) they just seem committed to making Tamriel as plain and normal as possible.

    So yeah we got another grey building in a generic forest. Woo.

    Oh no. I think you just jinxed it. Green-Sap/Falinesti will look like WGT with bark texture. The Numidium according to ZOS was probably brass-coloured WGT sliding around as if on ice skates and "walking" was just poetry that you can't make towers from. :p
    This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.
  • tsaescishoeshiner
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    I did the Balfiera prologue quest last night! It actually makes it seem like we're probably going back there, and it's NOT a one-off.

    Reasons:
    - Norianwe says that the ruins are full of traps and protections (we fight just a few of them)
    - Norianwe says there's a lot more to discover that she'll be researching
    - The Direnni will be sending a team to assist her
    - We only explore a few areas of the ruins, and just ONE floor of the Tower
    - It seems like the player "reactivates" something new upon absorbing and using the skyshard and accessing the portal room—this ability was unique to the player and key to moving through the ruins

    It definitely feels like the start of something, rather than just a random tutorial quest. I got trial or arena vibes from it, but who knows.

    Also, the big metal helix in the middle is awesome and mysterious.
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  • bluelights400
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    I must note that Cyrod's tower was built in emulation of adamantine. Furthermore Aldmeri Architecture being present on the Island is to show that the direnni are an OLD clan. I think people are getting angry over nothing.
  • bluelights400
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    psychotrip wrote: »
    WTF is a Anthor Avalanche Dog?

    Anthorbred Avalanche Dog - "With this loyal dog at your side, you have a companion who can help you make it through even the most treacherous of avalanches in Pale Pass and other mountainous areas … even if it has to pull you out from under a pile of fallen snow and detritus".

    I see nothing unnatural in this dog. Seems to be quite good to any highlander.

    Its a St Bernard that doesn't really have anything to do with anything really, they just wanted to put it in, so they tacked a random lore name on it and called it a day. Its the same with a bunch of stuff in the crown store that you will see - reskinned dogs and bears with lazy names tacked onto them. Tell me what a Snowhawk mage is, for instance? The place doesn't exist in ESO's version of Skyrim, and if the concept had any sort of substance to it other than a random hat-drawn lore-name to it, why don't we know about it? Ways can be found to contrive reasons or whatever, but when you're working with something that hasn't really been handled with much thought at all, it feels forced and unsatisfying.

    Snowhawk is in TES Arena - not the first time ESO has referenced Arena. (Selene's Web, Fang Lair, Halls of Collosus, etc. ) https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Arena:Snowhawk

    And while Arena's lore wasn't developed enough to say this, Skyrim's lore leads me to suspect that "in-universe" the "hawk" is a reference to Kyne, as she's frequently represented as and associated with hawks. Alternatively, if we assume that the "Snowhawk Mage" is indeed specifically associated with the Arena town, TES 1 says their rival is Solitude, which we find out in Skyrim is known for the hawks circling around the Blue Palace. Maybe a fun bit of town rivalry?


    Now, sure, you can handwave that away as a fan making ESO's slapdash lore make more sense than the Marketing Department did.

    Personally, I suspect its a lot more likely that the TES Arena writers employed the time-honored D&D method of naming places by "making stuff up". Later writers looked back at their old lore and went "Hmmm, how can we build to this?"

    In the same way, can I really criticize the ESO designers for thinking "You know, all the dogs in TES V look alike, but it would make sense that the Nords would have dogs that they bred and trained to deal with the mountains, right?"

    I mean, don't get me wrong: Meeko's cute. But I'm pretty sure he's not the only dog breed in Skyrim.
    Meeko.jpg

    You guys do so much brilliant work making this nonsense make sense that it honestly makes me wish YOU were the ones in charge of making these decisions.

    But here's the harsh truth that I've learned after spending most of my life as an ES fan:

    No one with any influence in the decision-making process has thought of this anywhere near as deeply as you. I'm positive the hard working writers at Zenimax try their best to make this all work but they have very little control over this stuff.

    At the end of the day most of ESO's decisions are based around marketing and live-service engagement, not storytelling.

    This isn't 3D chess. They wanted to sell players a cute pet and they slapped a vaguely familiar name so that people like the poster above would do their job for them. That's the extent of it. It's a similar process for ada-mantia, cyrodiil, pretty much everything they dont want to admit as a retcon or marketing decision.

    True asf
  • JJOtterBear
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    I too was a bit disappointed. I have been waiting for them to implement the Direnni/Admantine Tower as an explorable area for a long time. I was hoping that it would play a bigger part. and not just a tutorial space that you can never return to.

    And its not Ayleid. It's Divine. The Adamantine Tower looks the way it does because that how the God's designed it. The White-Gold Tower is a copy of divine design, its not Ayleid architecture. The Ayleids basically carbon copied Adamantine as best they could. Technically neither Tower is of Ayleid design. The only difference being the materials they are made of.

    Remember Ada-mantia was created well before the Ayleids existed as a culture with their own architecture. The Ayleids saw Admantine, looked up to what it represented, and tried to recreate it exactly in the hopes of tapping into a power that would allow them to ascend from the mortal plane.

    But nothing about it is Ayleid. Nothing about WG is Ayleid either.

    The part I found interesting is that the Keywright Gallery isn't even part of the Tower itself, but a separate building that lays before the Tower. And that in the hall with all the portal there is one portal that has a skyshard that is not lit, and I really wondered where that was supposed to lead to.
    Edited by JJOtterBear on July 21, 2021 1:03PM
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