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Adamantine Tower is now a game mechanic gimmick, and (still) looks Ayleid

Enodoc
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It appears that the new Tutorial Level Select gimmick (shown in yesterday's reveal stream) is based in Adamantine Tower. Firstly I don't see why it needs to be an in-world gimmick at all, as a menu choice would be perfectly fine. Secondly, using the most important metaphysical construct in the world as a tutorial and level select gimmick is a complete disservice to its major role in history.

Most importantly however:
unknown.png
why is it Ayleid?

I completely understand using a stripped down White-Gold Tower for the distant view of the tower in Glenumbra and Stormhaven; much easier than creating a new asset. But now that it's a direct focus of content, that needs to be updated. Adamantine Tower isn't Ayleid - it's an immense Aedric construct with a Direnni fortress at the base.

The lorebook Tower of Adamant from ESO specifically states: Adamantine Tower, it is called, for the unknown, ageless material from which it is built. Not white stone like WGT, but some other material. It is therefore highly likely that the tower is constructed of Adamantium (or a closely-related substance, since "-ine" as a suffix means "of or related to"). Adamantium is a metal, as shown by its appearance in Morrowind, and is itself considered a pretty unknown and ageless material.

PGE 1 (High Rock) corroborates that it is Adamantium (or a related material), as it explains that its core is a smooth cylinder of shining metal. The PGE further goes on to say that it has been much modified and added on to over the years; Tower of Adamant explains this further by saying that [the Direnni] can claim only the construction of the more recent keep that clusters around the tower's base. (This keep can be seen in the screenshot behind the trees.) Since the Ayleids arrived in High Rock after the Direnni, and the Direnni have never left the Tower, there is no way the Ayleids could have covered the rest of the Tower in their own construction.

Since we know that the Direnni only constructed the fortress around the base, and that the rest of the tower is literally built of an Adamantium-like material (by definition), everything that is not covered by Direnni construction should be metallic, not Ayleid.


How about the inside?
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This certainly does look like the Direnni architecture we are used to seeing from Summerset, so that's good.

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but what's that thing in the middle?

If that's the centre of the Tower, that should be a smooth cylinder of shining metal, as has been noted above as the Tower's core, not some broken stone structure.

What's more, if this is the Foundation Vault (as has been theorized by some, as the only known room within the Tower), that should be where the Argent Aperture is found.

The ESO lorebook Once describes the Foundation Vault, which is also the location of the Zero Stone:
At maturity, every Direnni of high blood is brought into the Tower, conducted to the Foundation Vault, and shown the Zero Stone. We are allowed to touch it—once—so as to feel the transcendent mystical power that courses through it, a power we have never been able to tap. And we are shown the Argent Aperture in the adjacent metallic wall, that door with its lock of thirteen slowly counter-rotating rings, a portal we have never been able to open.

This clearly describes the Argent Aperture being situated in a metallic wall - if we extrapolate from everything else that is described as "metallic", which predates all the Direnni construction, this must sit within the cylindrical metal core.

Since we know the Tower's core is metal, the middle of the Foundation Vault should be metallic, complete with the Argent Aperture and its thirteen locks, and not a broken stone structure. Also, where's the Zero Stone? That should be "adjacent" to the Argent Aperture.
Edited by Enodoc on January 27, 2021 7:53PM
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  • GrimTheReaper45
    GrimTheReaper45
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    oh i didn't know that..... I really wanted to go there in eso someday :(
  • adriant1978
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    oh i didn't know that..... I really wanted to go there in eso someday :(

    My Direnni character is very sad. :(
  • Enodoc
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    ON-item-furnishing-Beacon_of_Tower_Zero.jpg
    It's just disappointing. Ceporah and Crystal Tower looked wildly different. I'm completely fine with the Altmer architecture on the outside of the tower but don't even get me started on the very center of the inside, there should be a little effort on trying to make idk, Aedric architecture, somewhere?
    Yeah that screenshot was a furnishing or a quest item or something? That also looks Ayleid / looks like White-Gold Tower.
    Also, that Is the Zero stone we're looking at.
    ON-misc-Zero_Stone.jpg

    It's using the 2013 asset from the original main quest, which looks cool, but I think it could still have some changes to make it... more 2021 and slightly less Ayleid-looking, maybe just make it bizarre as hell.
    Hmm, doesn't look much like a stone (although indeed a metaphysical stone isn't always literally a stone)... but even if that thing is the Zero Stone itself, it would need to be not in the centre of the Tower and should be adjacent to the metallic wall holding the Argent Aperture.
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  • FabresFour
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    Well, I always understood that the White-Gold Tower was a blatant copy of the Adamantine Tower, right?
    @FabresFour - 1582 CP
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  • Enodoc
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    FabresFour wrote: »
    Well, I always understood that the White-Gold Tower was a blatant copy of the Adamantine Tower, right?
    Imitation is something all the towers sort of were, that's a whole other thing, but the main point is Adamantine only looked like White-Gold because of asset re-use, the explanation was given as a way to say "we don't have a model for this yet because we haven't gone there, so here's a placeholder in the meantime". They tease this in the Beacon antiquity:
    What's this? The White-Gold Tower rendered in miniature? Odd that it doesn't include the city itself. Doubly odd that it's giving off such a strong magical aura. What function did this serve? And what's this light radiating from the top?—Gabrielle Benele

    This isn't the White-Gold Tower. It's the Direnni Tower. Surely you can recognize the differences between the two? The light is a puzzle, though. Judging by the weight, this stone might house a metal core, just like the genuine article. —Verita Numida


    Point is now that we're actually going to it, the half-assed "oh it just looks like that cuz uhhh Ayleids copied" explanation isn't needed, they can just put in the effort to give it the unique look it deserves
    Yeah, White-Gold was created in open emulation of Tower Zero, as close to a direct copy as they could, but not exactly one because mortals (using stone) can't directly copy the Divine (who made an impossible tower of metal).

    Verita does at least reference the metal core, but doesn't explain why the outside is Ayleid (which Gabrielle clearly also believes is the case).

    Edit: It wouldn't account for the crenellation half-way up, but even a retex of the same model so that it looked more metallic would be better than keeping the stone look of WGT.
    Edited by Enodoc on January 27, 2021 10:02PM
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  • Atharaon
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    Verita does at least reference the metal core, but doesn't explain why the outside is Ayleid (which Gabrielle clearly also believes is the case).
    Ironic, isn't it, that she's a Breton and even she doesn't recognise that it's supposed to resemble Ada-Mantia...
  • TheRimOfTheSky
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    FabresFour wrote: »
    Yeah, White-Gold was created in open emulation of Tower Zero, as close to a direct copy as they could, but not exactly one because mortals (using stone) can't directly copy the Divine (who made an impossible tower of metal).

    Edit: It wouldn't account for the crenellation half-way up, but even a retex of the same model so that it looked more metallic would be better than keeping the stone look of WGT.

    That's all valid but the point is the WGT looking like Adamantia was a concept only introduced in eso to explain the asset re-use, I don't think it appeared in games/texts before, so they can really just retcon it out
  • GrimTheReaper45
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    oh i didn't know that..... I really wanted to go there in eso someday :(

    My Direnni character is very sad. :(

    My highelf characters and highelf loving self are also very sad!!!!!!!!!!! :'(

    That was like the last possibility for highelf content to ever be added to eso :'(
  • Aigym_Hlervu
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    Hmm, a new tutorial level in Balfiera? Haven't heard of it yet, thank you, Enodoc! That's interesting. I have several ideas (including contradicting ones) on this tower and here I'll just share one of the most interesting of them to me that once came to my mind. At least it gives some possible answers to some questions, though it has it's cons too, of course.

    The Direnni Tower has always been not that magnificent to me in comparison to the White Gold one. I agree with the fellow lore scholars on those contradictions about this tower and in an attempt to solve them among many other contradictions I once developed that New Elven Chronology I published some time ago in this section of the forums. It's still under development and correction since I'm developing it alone. One of it's articles is about the Zero Tower, so I'll just share that part of the theory on it here (see more references to the lore in the New Elven Chronology Theory and List of Dates threads), those pros in the lore that can give room to a possibility that this tower was indeed built by the Ayleids as many of you have already pointed at it's design, and according to the theory it was actually built after the White Gold Tower that should be considered as an actual "Zero Tower". Within that theory the inconsistency between the things we read in the books and the things we actually see is explained by a fake pro-altmeri chronology invented by the High Elves in order to justify their higher heritage among other Elves, and supported by the Imperial Geographical Society.

    Within the New Elven Chronology the Aldmer we know of from the chronicles are actually the Ayleids - the first and the only Elven heirs to the Old Ehlnofey who split in many other modern and passed Elven factions in the times following the greatest Narfinsel Schism, that devided them into the Aedraphiles and Daedraphiles, in the times of it's climax in 1E 198 at the Scouring of Wendelbek, and finally during the Alessian Rebellion in 1E 243. This could be a quite long period of the Ayleid-Aldmeri dissolution and the exodus of many factions from Aldmeris - an island known today as the Imperial City island, when they travelled in all the directions from the Heartland ([Heartland). The undoubtful Altmeri history, according to the theory, begins only after 1E 500s when they decided to take some Ayleid ruins in Hammerfell, so in that theory the Altmer are the youngest elven race among all the other, i.e. the ones who left the Heartland being the last of all the other elven races who likewise were the Ayleid descendants, not the Altmeri ones. But that's the other topic.

    So, according to the views within the theory, in the Dawn Era, or quite some time before the first historical records of the First Era, before letting the Wandering Ehlnofey drag the body of dead Lorkhan, Auriel tore out his Heart. We all know that this very event is also much doubted by the Khajiiti ri'Datta and pre-ri'Datta sources, so all we can be sure on is that someone tore out the Heart of Lorkhan out of his chest. Let it be Auriel here. The blood dropping from it was used to create the Chim-el Adabal - "The Amulet of the Kings of Glory, pendant of the red diamond Chim-el Adabal, Ayleid relic of Divine investiture." The body of Lorkhan was left to the Wandering Ehlnofey while his Heart was brought to Red Mountain to be buried forever in it's crater (for as we know, the arrows shot by a common mortal using Auriel's Bow can reach the sun - the arrow with the Heart tied to it could barely fall being shot by a god in spite of what legends tell us in those books). To commemorate their victory over the Wandering Ehlnofey a monument was constructed in Heartland - "the White Gold Tower which was built many ages ago by the godless, Daedra-loving Ayleids", "Ayleids of the Heartland" - "They built their tower in open emulation of Ada-Mantia, using as Founding-Stone the great red diamond they had uncovered: Chim-el-Adabal, said to be crystallized blood from the Heart of Lorkhan itself. .. Thus did White-Gold become Tower One. As all know.".

    Within the New Elven Chronology the Ada-Mantia will be built much later and used just "as a fortress, prison, and palace by the infamous Direnni Hegemony". Adamantine Tower, it is called, "for the unknown, ageless material from which it is built" - but, unlike the White Gold Tower's one, the material the Direnni Tower is constructed of is well known - it's not that great. So many things in the lore tell me of the Adamantine Tower's total historical and practical insignificance - built by the Direnni the way Pelladil Direnni used to build other structures by summoning an army of Stone Atronachs (possibly!) on a distant island, this tower seems to emulate the White Gold one after the Alessians captured the Imperial City, not vice versa.

    No undoubted really great historical events happened there with only some books telling us of some mythical "pre-Dawn Era" magnificent events and legends of a very doubtful nature. No great purpose, no great history - nothing. Unlike the other towers nobody has ever fought seriously to get the Adamantine Tower's "Zero Stone" or to conquer it - even Molag Bal placed no anchor over it today in 2E 582 (at least I haven't seen it). So, this "fake" tower could be called Direnni Tower for a reason at least until the devs develop it's lore some other way. Compare it all with the history and significance of the White Gold Tower they created to understand what I mean - the books on the Direnni Tower might trick us.

    Anyway, it's just a part of a part of a quite big theory, so it has many pros and cons, of course. Oh, and by the way, 4 years ago the Direnni Tower was quite reachable from Stormhaven. Not sure if Sotha Sil has left that gap unclosed yet using thd help of the Spirit of Limitation, but that tower was quite interesting to observe standing so close to it. Perhaps, I should check it out again.
  • Taris
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    Is it confirmed to be Balfiera?
    Was pretty tired on the stream so i might have missed that part.
  • Enodoc
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    Taris wrote: »
    Is it confirmed to be Balfiera?
    Was pretty tired on the stream so i might have missed that part.
    Technically no, this is just picking up off the primary theory given that it's not White-Gold Tower itself and the interior uses the old Foundation Vault / Zero Stone asset that TheRimOfTheSky noted.

    An alternative possibility is that it's another time-lost White-Gold Tower copy.
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  • GrimTheReaper45
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    Taris wrote: »
    Enodoc wrote: »
    Taris wrote: »
    Is it confirmed to be Balfiera?
    Was pretty tired on the stream so i might have missed that part.
    Technically no, this is just picking up off the primary theory given that it's not White-Gold Tower itself and the interior uses the old Foundation Vault / Zero Stone asset that TheRimOfTheSky noted.

    An alternative possibility is that it's another time-lost White-Gold Tower copy.

    Ah okay thanks. thought i missed something.
    Really hope it is just asset reuse. A future Direnni/Adamantine Tower DLC is something i hoped for.

    Same, I love highelves and thats the one place left in the world to have hope of ever getting highelf related content again. :'(
  • ealdwin
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    Taris wrote: »
    Enodoc wrote: »
    Taris wrote: »
    Is it confirmed to be Balfiera?
    Was pretty tired on the stream so i might have missed that part.
    Technically no, this is just picking up off the primary theory given that it's not White-Gold Tower itself and the interior uses the old Foundation Vault / Zero Stone asset that TheRimOfTheSky noted.

    An alternative possibility is that it's another time-lost White-Gold Tower copy.

    Ah okay thanks. thought i missed something.
    Really hope it is just asset reuse. A future Direnni/Adamantine Tower DLC is something i hoped for.

    Same, I love highelves and thats the one place left in the world to have hope of ever getting highelf related content again. :'(

    Same for Breton or High Rock lore (one of the benefits of stuff dealing with the Direnni). Unless there are some islands out there or the potential scenario of Jehanna hanging out in the strip of land between Wrothgar and Western Skyrim.
    Edited by ealdwin on April 12, 2021 2:36PM
  • Iccotak
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    ealdwin wrote: »
    Taris wrote: »
    Enodoc wrote: »
    Taris wrote: »
    Is it confirmed to be Balfiera?
    Was pretty tired on the stream so i might have missed that part.
    Technically no, this is just picking up off the primary theory given that it's not White-Gold Tower itself and the interior uses the old Foundation Vault / Zero Stone asset that TheRimOfTheSky noted.

    An alternative possibility is that it's another time-lost White-Gold Tower copy.

    Ah okay thanks. thought i missed something.
    Really hope it is just asset reuse. A future Direnni/Adamantine Tower DLC is something i hoped for.

    Same, I love highelves and thats the one place left in the world to have hope of ever getting highelf related content again. :'(

    Same for Breton or High Rock lore (one of the benefits of stuff dealing with the Direnni). Unless there are some islands out there or the unlikely scenario of Jehanna hanging out in the strip of land between Wrothgar and Western Skyrim.

    Or another blackreach area
  • psychotrip
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    Come on, gang. If there's one thing we've learned since ESO released is that they'll retcon anything, even their own established lore, the moment it's inconvenient for them, because they know the community will find some way to make it "make sense". The loremaster left for a reason, after all.

    This is likely just some placeholder stuff, but after all these years none of us should be shocked or surprised if the devs come out and say "Adamantia has always looked like this, previous descriptions were just transcription errors".

    In either case, dont count on Zenimax to portray ES lore the way you expect them to. Thats a bet you'll lose almost every time.

    Unless you expect them to make something out of grey stone. Then you'll almost certainly be correct
    Edited by psychotrip on January 30, 2021 5:22PM
    No one is saying there aren't multiple interpretations of the lore, and we're not arguing that ESO did it "wrong".

    We're arguing that they decided to go for the most boring, mundane, seen-before interpretation possible. Like they almost always do, unless they can ride on the coat-tails of past games.
  • Iccotak
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    psychotrip wrote: »
    Come on, gang. If there's one thing we've learned since ESO released is that they'll retcon anything, even their own established lore, the moment it's inconvenient for them, because they know the community will find some way to make it "make sense". The loremaster left for a reason, after all.

    This is likely just some placeholder stuff, but after all these years none of us should be shocked or surprised if the devs come out and say "Adamantia has always looked like this, previous descriptions were just transcription errors".

    In either case, dont count on Zenimax to portray ES lore the way you expect them to. Thats a bet you'll lose almost every time.

    Unless you expect them to make something out of grey stone. Then you'll almost certainly be correct

    Lawrence is also 66 and probably at a point to go to a lower stress work environment - last I heard he was working on a small mobile game in Ireland. He perfectly trusts the new Lore Master
  • psychotrip
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    I wasnt in any way criticizing any writer at Zenimax.

    I'm criticizing the suits that keep watering down their work in the name of convenience.
    Edited by psychotrip on January 31, 2021 12:53AM
    No one is saying there aren't multiple interpretations of the lore, and we're not arguing that ESO did it "wrong".

    We're arguing that they decided to go for the most boring, mundane, seen-before interpretation possible. Like they almost always do, unless they can ride on the coat-tails of past games.
  • Supreme_Atromancer
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    On a related note, what has the new constellations/CP system got to do with Elder Scrolls at all? Or half of the crown store stuff? WTF is a Anthor Avalanche Dog? It feels like they just make whatever mechanics or cosmetic that gets into their minds and then just slap something "kinda elder scrollsey" on it and call it a day.
  • Aigym_Hlervu
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    WTF is a Anthor Avalanche Dog?

    Anthorbred Avalanche Dog - "With this loyal dog at your side, you have a companion who can help you make it through even the most treacherous of avalanches in Pale Pass and other mountainous areas … even if it has to pull you out from under a pile of fallen snow and detritus".

    I see nothing unnatural in this dog. Seems to be quite good to any highlander.
  • Supreme_Atromancer
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    WTF is a Anthor Avalanche Dog?

    Anthorbred Avalanche Dog - "With this loyal dog at your side, you have a companion who can help you make it through even the most treacherous of avalanches in Pale Pass and other mountainous areas … even if it has to pull you out from under a pile of fallen snow and detritus".

    I see nothing unnatural in this dog. Seems to be quite good to any highlander.

    Its a St Bernard that doesn't really have anything to do with anything really, they just wanted to put it in, so they tacked a random lore name on it and called it a day. Its the same with a bunch of stuff in the crown store that you will see - reskinned dogs and bears with lazy names tacked onto them. Tell me what a Snowhawk mage is, for instance? The place doesn't exist in ESO's version of Skyrim, and if the concept had any sort of substance to it other than a random hat-drawn lore-name to it, why don't we know about it? Ways can be found to contrive reasons or whatever, but when you're working with something that hasn't really been handled with much thought at all, it feels forced and unsatisfying.
  • ArchMikem
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    Argent Aperture

    :| ...

    DOOM
    CP1,500+ Master Explorer - AvA August Palatine - Console Peasant
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