PTS Update 29 - Feedback Thread for Armor Bonuses & Penalties

ZOS_GinaBruno

This is the official feedback thread for the new Armor bonuses and penalties. After you have a chance to try out different combat scenarios, let us know what you think of the current balance and changes.

Grandchamp1989

Please reconsider the nerf to PVE Tanks - the penalties are way too rough.

Medium armor actually looks to be the better Tank armor now with reduced block cost and evasion build into roll dodge. It's backwards.

PVE Tanks rely on roll dodging to complete most of your hardmodes. 21% nerf is far too much!
Nerfing ressources from heavy attacks by 5% for wearing 5 heavy armor is another nerf.
Certain trials rely on you tanking massive incoming magic attack, so why make PVE tanks less tanky in those instances?
PVE Tanks have to lead the teams in dungeons but you made us the slowest member so we'll end up running in the backline with the healer?

Please please reconsider this. There's sooooooooo few PVE tanks already don't make our lives harder! We need more PVE Tanks not less. Nobody want to be a super slow rock that can only hold block. It's so limiting.

I suggest you take the heavy armor nerfs and apply them to PVP (Which I suggest was intended to begin with) by using Battle Spirit. So when you're under the effect of battle spirit these nerfs apply.

EDIT: I see you've just nerfed PVE tanks to the ground with the cp.2.0 of this weeks patches. Doesn't look like we want more PVE tanks for endgame content...

Firstmep

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Please reconsider the nerf to PVE Tanks - the penalties are way too rough.

Medium armor actually looks to be the better Tank armor now with reduced block cost and evasion build into roll dodge. It's backwards.

PVE Tanks rely on roll dodging to complete most of your hardmodes. 21% nerf is far too much!
Nerfing ressources from heavy attacks by 5% for wearing 5 heavy armor is another nerf.
Certain trials rely on you tanking massive incoming magic attack, so why make PVE tanks less tanky in those instances?
PVE Tanks have to lead the teams in dungeons but you made us the slowest member so we'll end up running in the backline with the healer?

Please please reconsider this. There's sooooooooo few PVE tanks already don't make our lives harder! We need more PVE Tanks not less. Nobody want to be a super slow rock that can only hold block. It's so limiting.

I suggest you take the heavy armor nerfs and apply them to PVP (Which I suggest was intended to begin with) by using Battle Spirit. So when you're under the effect of battle spirit these nerfs apply.

Funny thing is, in pvp these changes made heavy armor stronger, not weaker.

BohnT2

The changes to heavy armor are ridiculous compared to light and medium.

The bonus adding 2% damage mitigation while you're CC immune means you'll be running around with 14% damage mitigation all the time in pvp, that's more than major protection.

Neither light or medium armor got any meaningful increase to their damage which will result in everyone playing pvp running 7 pieces of heavy armor.


Those passive simply aren't balanced at all with their downsides:
Light armor gets a little more stam sustain, something highly unnecessary since regen buffs have been increased last patch at the cost of a huge drawback to blocking making light armor even more squishy.

Medium on the other hand has no downside at all but also only relatively mediocre stuff, 14% mitigation for 2 seconds only after a dodge roll, that's just laughably weak compared to 14% mitigation vs everything all the time.


Either medium and light get a huge increase to their damage or the heavy armor mitigation while being CC immune has to be changed to something else.

The current version asks for everyone playing heavy armor in pvp and there's no reason not to

Dracane

Brian said that bashing should be cheaper in light armor, because it is less impairing.
Why is blocking different in this regard? Why would blocking be more expensive instead of simply less effective?
It would make more sense if blocking in light armor was weaker, not more expensive or on the contrary, perhaps cheaper.

It's also unwise from a gameplay perspective. Light armor users in pve already have bad stamina sustain to tackle mechanics. Increasing block costs would only amplify this. Light armor users are traditionally DDs and never use bash to interrupt. This is done by the tank or dedicated crushing shock users.

If anything, heavy armor should make bashing cheaper and stronger, while light armor instead gets cheaper but less effective blocks.

Integral1900

As usual they’ve changed far too much all in one go! I’ve read through the patch notes and the bits they posted on the forum several times and right now I feel like a chimpanzee trying to figure out how to split the atom!

The one thing I can’t get out of my head is the idea of what I’m going to do in veteran trials when my tank gets plastered by some whacking great magic attack!

There are mechanics you can barely survive now and then on top of that they’re going to strip my ability to dodge roll out of the way of the stuff!

What the #£#£ am I supposed to do!

And don’t give me any nonsense about some healer helping you through it because I tell you this, there is no healer in the game that can heal you through a &£&£ing one-shot!

Dracane

BohnT2 wrote: »

Either medium and light get a huge increase to their damage or the heavy armor mitigation while being CC immune has to be changed to something else.

The current version asks for everyone playing heavy armor in pvp and there's no reason not to

This mitigation will always be up in pvp, making the heavy armor meta only more dominant.
If ZoS insists on heavy armor having such a passive, then it could decrease damage WHILE cced or rooted, not while cc immune. This would somewhat support the idea of heavy armor being slow, but rocky.

In any case, it's too strong right now. I am also surprised light and medium got damage nerfs rather than buffs. Medium armor went from 15% weapon damage to 10% with 5 pieces and light went from 4,8k pen to 4,6k.
I think the direction of these changes are good, just needs some reconsideration.

GrimTheReaper45

Posted this in a prior thread but wanted to repost here because this is the official discussion.

Im not a big fan of these changes either, they just dont make a lot of sense.

Were still vary locked into weights by set bonuses. Yes you could run crafted but most of those arnt very good and arnt typically used in pve or pvp. You could maybe work out something where your running certain pieces on jewelry and weapons but even then you have to find a set in the desired weight that has bonuses that apply to your build. Of which there arnt many medium sets with good mag bonuses or light sets with good stam bonuses. Stam has much better heavy sets to utilize then mag that their already running. Also whenever your juggling sets on pieces like that its just really inconvenient. Like most people run one set on body and one set on jewelry and weapons/head shoulders. When you have mismatched sets like that its just really inconvenient because they arnt interchangeable with the rest of your gear.

It really just feels like you guys are trying to force build complexity for the sake of build complexity where it really doesnt fit well and is just confusing for players. No one really has a problem with how gear weights work currently, we might like damage nerfed a bit for heavy in pvp but the mechanics of it we like and dont have a problem with. If your trying to buff or nerf things just buff or nerf them. Why just complicate things?

DreadDaedroth

Don't make PvE tanks slower or harder to doge roll one shot attacks with them thanks.
Remove the malus.

twing1_

BohnT2 wrote: »

The changes to heavy armor are ridiculous compared to light and medium.

The bonus adding 2% damage mitigation while you're CC immune means you'll be running around with 14% damage mitigation all the time in pvp, that's more than major protection.

Neither light or medium armor got any meaningful increase to their damage which will result in everyone playing pvp running 7 pieces of heavy armor.


Those passive simply aren't balanced at all with their downsides:
Light armor gets a little more stam sustain, something highly unnecessary since regen buffs have been increased last patch at the cost of a huge drawback to blocking making light armor even more squishy.

Medium on the other hand has no downside at all but also only relatively mediocre stuff, 14% mitigation for 2 seconds only after a dodge roll, that's just laughably weak compared to 14% mitigation vs everything all the time.


Either medium and light get a huge increase to their damage or the heavy armor mitigation while being CC immune has to be changed to something else.

The current version asks for everyone playing heavy armor in pvp and there's no reason not to

They also made heavy armor considerably harder to sustain in comparison to its light/medium counterparts.

Both light and medium armor have roll dodge reduction, and fat amounts (21% for light, 28% for medium). These defensive maneuvers mitigate all damage.

Heavy, on the other hand, gets a 21% cost INCREASE to this mechanic. Couple that with the removal of roll dodge reduction CP points, and it becomes even more difficult for heavy armor to sustain dodge rolling. This leaves its only defense to be face-tanking damage through mitigation, which I think is a good move.

The heavy armor meta has existed for so long because people could stack its increased resistances with easy access to roll dodging, which becomes super powerful. These new changes take that out of the equation.

I personally welcome these changes because they work to pigeon hole heavy armor users into face tanking a greater number of opponent attacks (because of less dodges), even if that damage is being mitigated more. It makes battling heavy armor users a sort of war of attrition, in which you must deplete their stamina by ccing them until they can't sustain it anymore and are forced to sit there in a cc (without that 14% mitigation, because that only activates whilst cc immune) before you yourself run out of dodges. I like the balance of what they were going for in this regard.

The one thing that I find to be in an odd spot is the block cost reduction on medium armor. This is the one thing I would change, and I would move it to heavy armor passives, as it would further encourage heavy users to sit there and face tank damage by blocking and reducing their speed. Seems counter intuitive to have it on medium armor, where the focus is on mobility and damage avoidance. 21% block cost reduction is huge too, and I could see PvE tanks once again adopting powerful assault for medium armor tanking if it stays with medium armor, especially when all that extra health was given to us at the base level that can be used to offset the loss of resistances.

Only suggestion: move block cost reduction to heavy armor passives and get rid of the bash damage. Damage doesn't belong on heavy armor passives, and bashing isn't for dealing damage.

BohnT2

twing1_ wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

The changes to heavy armor are ridiculous compared to light and medium.

The bonus adding 2% damage mitigation while you're CC immune means you'll be running around with 14% damage mitigation all the time in pvp, that's more than major protection.

Neither light or medium armor got any meaningful increase to their damage which will result in everyone playing pvp running 7 pieces of heavy armor.


Those passive simply aren't balanced at all with their downsides:
Light armor gets a little more stam sustain, something highly unnecessary since regen buffs have been increased last patch at the cost of a huge drawback to blocking making light armor even more squishy.

Medium on the other hand has no downside at all but also only relatively mediocre stuff, 14% mitigation for 2 seconds only after a dodge roll, that's just laughably weak compared to 14% mitigation vs everything all the time.


Either medium and light get a huge increase to their damage or the heavy armor mitigation while being CC immune has to be changed to something else.

The current version asks for everyone playing heavy armor in pvp and there's no reason not to

They also made heavy armor considerably harder to sustain in comparison to its light/medium counterparts.

Both light and medium armor have roll dodge reduction, and fat amounts (21% for light, 28% for medium). These defensive maneuvers mitigate all damage.

Heavy, on the other hand, gets a 21% cost INCREASE to this mechanic. Couple that with the removal of roll dodge reduction CP points, and it becomes even more difficult for heavy armor to sustain dodge rolling. This leaves its only defense to be face-tanking damage through mitigation, which I think is a good move.

The heavy armor meta has existed for so long because people could stack its increased resistances with easy access to roll dodging, which becomes super powerful.

I personally welcome these changes because they work to pigeon hole heavy armor users into face tanking a greater number of opponent attacks (because of less dodges), even if that damage is being mitigated more. It makes battling heavy armor users a sort of war of attrition, in which you must deplete their stamina by ccing them until they can't sustain it anymore and are forced to sit there in a cc (without that 14% mitigation, because that only activates whilst cc immune) before you yourself run out of dodges. I like the balance of what they were going for in this regard.

The one thing that I find to be in an odd spot is the block cost reduction on medium armor. This is the one thing I would change, and I would move it to heavy armor passives, as it would further encourage heavy users to sit there and face tank damage by blocking and reducing their speed. Seems counter intuitive to have it on medium armor, where the focus is on mobility and damage avoidance. 21% block cost reduction is huge too, and I could see PvE tanks once again adopting powerful assault for medium armor tanking if it stays with medium armor, especially when all that extra health was given to us at the base level that can be used to offset the loss of resistances.

Only suggestion: move block cost reduction to heavy armor passives and get rid of the bash damage. Damage doesn't belong on heavy armor passives, and bashing isn't for dealing damage.

Have you heard about 7 seconds of cc immunity?

twing1_

BohnT2 wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

The changes to heavy armor are ridiculous compared to light and medium.

The bonus adding 2% damage mitigation while you're CC immune means you'll be running around with 14% damage mitigation all the time in pvp, that's more than major protection.

Neither light or medium armor got any meaningful increase to their damage which will result in everyone playing pvp running 7 pieces of heavy armor.


Those passive simply aren't balanced at all with their downsides:
Light armor gets a little more stam sustain, something highly unnecessary since regen buffs have been increased last patch at the cost of a huge drawback to blocking making light armor even more squishy.

Medium on the other hand has no downside at all but also only relatively mediocre stuff, 14% mitigation for 2 seconds only after a dodge roll, that's just laughably weak compared to 14% mitigation vs everything all the time.


Either medium and light get a huge increase to their damage or the heavy armor mitigation while being CC immune has to be changed to something else.

The current version asks for everyone playing heavy armor in pvp and there's no reason not to

They also made heavy armor considerably harder to sustain in comparison to its light/medium counterparts.

Both light and medium armor have roll dodge reduction, and fat amounts (21% for light, 28% for medium). These defensive maneuvers mitigate all damage.

Heavy, on the other hand, gets a 21% cost INCREASE to this mechanic. Couple that with the removal of roll dodge reduction CP points, and it becomes even more difficult for heavy armor to sustain dodge rolling. This leaves its only defense to be face-tanking damage through mitigation, which I think is a good move.

The heavy armor meta has existed for so long because people could stack its increased resistances with easy access to roll dodging, which becomes super powerful.

I personally welcome these changes because they work to pigeon hole heavy armor users into face tanking a greater number of opponent attacks (because of less dodges), even if that damage is being mitigated more. It makes battling heavy armor users a sort of war of attrition, in which you must deplete their stamina by ccing them until they can't sustain it anymore and are forced to sit there in a cc (without that 14% mitigation, because that only activates whilst cc immune) before you yourself run out of dodges. I like the balance of what they were going for in this regard.

The one thing that I find to be in an odd spot is the block cost reduction on medium armor. This is the one thing I would change, and I would move it to heavy armor passives, as it would further encourage heavy users to sit there and face tank damage by blocking and reducing their speed. Seems counter intuitive to have it on medium armor, where the focus is on mobility and damage avoidance. 21% block cost reduction is huge too, and I could see PvE tanks once again adopting powerful assault for medium armor tanking if it stays with medium armor, especially when all that extra health was given to us at the base level that can be used to offset the loss of resistances.

Only suggestion: move block cost reduction to heavy armor passives and get rid of the bash damage. Damage doesn't belong on heavy armor passives, and bashing isn't for dealing damage.

Have you heard about 7 seconds of cc immunity?

Yes.

StopDropAndBear

Taking more damage just for wearing what has been always been drilled as the survivability/tank armor weight choice is a very confusing design decision.

BohnT2

twing1_ wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

The changes to heavy armor are ridiculous compared to light and medium.

The bonus adding 2% damage mitigation while you're CC immune means you'll be running around with 14% damage mitigation all the time in pvp, that's more than major protection.

Neither light or medium armor got any meaningful increase to their damage which will result in everyone playing pvp running 7 pieces of heavy armor.


Those passive simply aren't balanced at all with their downsides:
Light armor gets a little more stam sustain, something highly unnecessary since regen buffs have been increased last patch at the cost of a huge drawback to blocking making light armor even more squishy.

Medium on the other hand has no downside at all but also only relatively mediocre stuff, 14% mitigation for 2 seconds only after a dodge roll, that's just laughably weak compared to 14% mitigation vs everything all the time.


Either medium and light get a huge increase to their damage or the heavy armor mitigation while being CC immune has to be changed to something else.

The current version asks for everyone playing heavy armor in pvp and there's no reason not to

They also made heavy armor considerably harder to sustain in comparison to its light/medium counterparts.

Both light and medium armor have roll dodge reduction, and fat amounts (21% for light, 28% for medium). These defensive maneuvers mitigate all damage.

Heavy, on the other hand, gets a 21% cost INCREASE to this mechanic. Couple that with the removal of roll dodge reduction CP points, and it becomes even more difficult for heavy armor to sustain dodge rolling. This leaves its only defense to be face-tanking damage through mitigation, which I think is a good move.

The heavy armor meta has existed for so long because people could stack its increased resistances with easy access to roll dodging, which becomes super powerful.

I personally welcome these changes because they work to pigeon hole heavy armor users into face tanking a greater number of opponent attacks (because of less dodges), even if that damage is being mitigated more. It makes battling heavy armor users a sort of war of attrition, in which you must deplete their stamina by ccing them until they can't sustain it anymore and are forced to sit there in a cc (without that 14% mitigation, because that only activates whilst cc immune) before you yourself run out of dodges. I like the balance of what they were going for in this regard.

The one thing that I find to be in an odd spot is the block cost reduction on medium armor. This is the one thing I would change, and I would move it to heavy armor passives, as it would further encourage heavy users to sit there and face tank damage by blocking and reducing their speed. Seems counter intuitive to have it on medium armor, where the focus is on mobility and damage avoidance. 21% block cost reduction is huge too, and I could see PvE tanks once again adopting powerful assault for medium armor tanking if it stays with medium armor, especially when all that extra health was given to us at the base level that can be used to offset the loss of resistances.

Only suggestion: move block cost reduction to heavy armor passives and get rid of the bash damage. Damage doesn't belong on heavy armor passives, and bashing isn't for dealing damage.

Have you heard about 7 seconds of cc immunity?

Yes.

Then how do you come to the conclusion people will be sitting in CCs?
In PvP you're either immune to CCs or you are currently CC'd there's no inbetween which means you'll be gaining full advantage of the broken passive all the time.

twing1_

BohnT2 wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

The changes to heavy armor are ridiculous compared to light and medium.

The bonus adding 2% damage mitigation while you're CC immune means you'll be running around with 14% damage mitigation all the time in pvp, that's more than major protection.

Neither light or medium armor got any meaningful increase to their damage which will result in everyone playing pvp running 7 pieces of heavy armor.


Those passive simply aren't balanced at all with their downsides:
Light armor gets a little more stam sustain, something highly unnecessary since regen buffs have been increased last patch at the cost of a huge drawback to blocking making light armor even more squishy.

Medium on the other hand has no downside at all but also only relatively mediocre stuff, 14% mitigation for 2 seconds only after a dodge roll, that's just laughably weak compared to 14% mitigation vs everything all the time.


Either medium and light get a huge increase to their damage or the heavy armor mitigation while being CC immune has to be changed to something else.

The current version asks for everyone playing heavy armor in pvp and there's no reason not to

They also made heavy armor considerably harder to sustain in comparison to its light/medium counterparts.

Both light and medium armor have roll dodge reduction, and fat amounts (21% for light, 28% for medium). These defensive maneuvers mitigate all damage.

Heavy, on the other hand, gets a 21% cost INCREASE to this mechanic. Couple that with the removal of roll dodge reduction CP points, and it becomes even more difficult for heavy armor to sustain dodge rolling. This leaves its only defense to be face-tanking damage through mitigation, which I think is a good move.

The heavy armor meta has existed for so long because people could stack its increased resistances with easy access to roll dodging, which becomes super powerful.

I personally welcome these changes because they work to pigeon hole heavy armor users into face tanking a greater number of opponent attacks (because of less dodges), even if that damage is being mitigated more. It makes battling heavy armor users a sort of war of attrition, in which you must deplete their stamina by ccing them until they can't sustain it anymore and are forced to sit there in a cc (without that 14% mitigation, because that only activates whilst cc immune) before you yourself run out of dodges. I like the balance of what they were going for in this regard.

The one thing that I find to be in an odd spot is the block cost reduction on medium armor. This is the one thing I would change, and I would move it to heavy armor passives, as it would further encourage heavy users to sit there and face tank damage by blocking and reducing their speed. Seems counter intuitive to have it on medium armor, where the focus is on mobility and damage avoidance. 21% block cost reduction is huge too, and I could see PvE tanks once again adopting powerful assault for medium armor tanking if it stays with medium armor, especially when all that extra health was given to us at the base level that can be used to offset the loss of resistances.

Only suggestion: move block cost reduction to heavy armor passives and get rid of the bash damage. Damage doesn't belong on heavy armor passives, and bashing isn't for dealing damage.

Have you heard about 7 seconds of cc immunity?

Yes.

Then how do you come to the conclusion people will be sitting in CCs?
In PvP you're either immune to CCs or you are currently CC'd there's no inbetween which means you'll be gaining full advantage of the broken passive all the time.

When you are ccd, you aren't cc immune. Cc immunity starts after the cc ends. This leaves heavy users vulnerable while they are cced.

Because heavy armor dodge roll and break free is so expensive, it's easy to flush heavy users' stamina bars and keep them in a cc, completely helpless to your burst window, unable to even block.

That's what I was saying earlier about a war of attrition. You just have to wear them down, and then they become useless. If the fight goes on long enough, their stamina bar will deplete, and it becomes easy pickings.

BohnT2

twing1_ wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

The changes to heavy armor are ridiculous compared to light and medium.

The bonus adding 2% damage mitigation while you're CC immune means you'll be running around with 14% damage mitigation all the time in pvp, that's more than major protection.

Neither light or medium armor got any meaningful increase to their damage which will result in everyone playing pvp running 7 pieces of heavy armor.


Those passive simply aren't balanced at all with their downsides:
Light armor gets a little more stam sustain, something highly unnecessary since regen buffs have been increased last patch at the cost of a huge drawback to blocking making light armor even more squishy.

Medium on the other hand has no downside at all but also only relatively mediocre stuff, 14% mitigation for 2 seconds only after a dodge roll, that's just laughably weak compared to 14% mitigation vs everything all the time.


Either medium and light get a huge increase to their damage or the heavy armor mitigation while being CC immune has to be changed to something else.

The current version asks for everyone playing heavy armor in pvp and there's no reason not to

They also made heavy armor considerably harder to sustain in comparison to its light/medium counterparts.

Both light and medium armor have roll dodge reduction, and fat amounts (21% for light, 28% for medium). These defensive maneuvers mitigate all damage.

Heavy, on the other hand, gets a 21% cost INCREASE to this mechanic. Couple that with the removal of roll dodge reduction CP points, and it becomes even more difficult for heavy armor to sustain dodge rolling. This leaves its only defense to be face-tanking damage through mitigation, which I think is a good move.

The heavy armor meta has existed for so long because people could stack its increased resistances with easy access to roll dodging, which becomes super powerful.

I personally welcome these changes because they work to pigeon hole heavy armor users into face tanking a greater number of opponent attacks (because of less dodges), even if that damage is being mitigated more. It makes battling heavy armor users a sort of war of attrition, in which you must deplete their stamina by ccing them until they can't sustain it anymore and are forced to sit there in a cc (without that 14% mitigation, because that only activates whilst cc immune) before you yourself run out of dodges. I like the balance of what they were going for in this regard.

The one thing that I find to be in an odd spot is the block cost reduction on medium armor. This is the one thing I would change, and I would move it to heavy armor passives, as it would further encourage heavy users to sit there and face tank damage by blocking and reducing their speed. Seems counter intuitive to have it on medium armor, where the focus is on mobility and damage avoidance. 21% block cost reduction is huge too, and I could see PvE tanks once again adopting powerful assault for medium armor tanking if it stays with medium armor, especially when all that extra health was given to us at the base level that can be used to offset the loss of resistances.

Only suggestion: move block cost reduction to heavy armor passives and get rid of the bash damage. Damage doesn't belong on heavy armor passives, and bashing isn't for dealing damage.

Have you heard about 7 seconds of cc immunity?

Yes.

Then how do you come to the conclusion people will be sitting in CCs?
In PvP you're either immune to CCs or you are currently CC'd there's no inbetween which means you'll be gaining full advantage of the broken passive all the time.

When you are ccd, you aren't cc immune. Cc immunity starts after the cc ends. This leaves heavy users vulnerable while they are cced.

Because heavy armor dodge roll and break free is so expensive, it's easy to flush heavy users' stamina bars and keep them in a cc, completely helpless to your burst window, unable to even block.

That's what I was saying earlier about a war of attrition. You just have to wear them down, and then they become useless. If the fight goes on long enough, their stamina bar will deplete, and it becomes easy pickings.

From your answer it tells that you haven't played PvP at all or aren't good at it.
First of all you don't run out of resources this patch and next patch you won't run out either.
If you ever come close to being shy of stamina you'll be going right into mist form laughing at people trying to kill you while HP regen takes care of everything.

twing1_

BohnT2 wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

The changes to heavy armor are ridiculous compared to light and medium.

The bonus adding 2% damage mitigation while you're CC immune means you'll be running around with 14% damage mitigation all the time in pvp, that's more than major protection.

Neither light or medium armor got any meaningful increase to their damage which will result in everyone playing pvp running 7 pieces of heavy armor.


Those passive simply aren't balanced at all with their downsides:
Light armor gets a little more stam sustain, something highly unnecessary since regen buffs have been increased last patch at the cost of a huge drawback to blocking making light armor even more squishy.

Medium on the other hand has no downside at all but also only relatively mediocre stuff, 14% mitigation for 2 seconds only after a dodge roll, that's just laughably weak compared to 14% mitigation vs everything all the time.


Either medium and light get a huge increase to their damage or the heavy armor mitigation while being CC immune has to be changed to something else.

The current version asks for everyone playing heavy armor in pvp and there's no reason not to

They also made heavy armor considerably harder to sustain in comparison to its light/medium counterparts.

Both light and medium armor have roll dodge reduction, and fat amounts (21% for light, 28% for medium). These defensive maneuvers mitigate all damage.

Heavy, on the other hand, gets a 21% cost INCREASE to this mechanic. Couple that with the removal of roll dodge reduction CP points, and it becomes even more difficult for heavy armor to sustain dodge rolling. This leaves its only defense to be face-tanking damage through mitigation, which I think is a good move.

The heavy armor meta has existed for so long because people could stack its increased resistances with easy access to roll dodging, which becomes super powerful.

I personally welcome these changes because they work to pigeon hole heavy armor users into face tanking a greater number of opponent attacks (because of less dodges), even if that damage is being mitigated more. It makes battling heavy armor users a sort of war of attrition, in which you must deplete their stamina by ccing them until they can't sustain it anymore and are forced to sit there in a cc (without that 14% mitigation, because that only activates whilst cc immune) before you yourself run out of dodges. I like the balance of what they were going for in this regard.

The one thing that I find to be in an odd spot is the block cost reduction on medium armor. This is the one thing I would change, and I would move it to heavy armor passives, as it would further encourage heavy users to sit there and face tank damage by blocking and reducing their speed. Seems counter intuitive to have it on medium armor, where the focus is on mobility and damage avoidance. 21% block cost reduction is huge too, and I could see PvE tanks once again adopting powerful assault for medium armor tanking if it stays with medium armor, especially when all that extra health was given to us at the base level that can be used to offset the loss of resistances.

Only suggestion: move block cost reduction to heavy armor passives and get rid of the bash damage. Damage doesn't belong on heavy armor passives, and bashing isn't for dealing damage.

Have you heard about 7 seconds of cc immunity?

Yes.

Then how do you come to the conclusion people will be sitting in CCs?
In PvP you're either immune to CCs or you are currently CC'd there's no inbetween which means you'll be gaining full advantage of the broken passive all the time.

When you are ccd, you aren't cc immune. Cc immunity starts after the cc ends. This leaves heavy users vulnerable while they are cced.

Because heavy armor dodge roll and break free is so expensive, it's easy to flush heavy users' stamina bars and keep them in a cc, completely helpless to your burst window, unable to even block.

That's what I was saying earlier about a war of attrition. You just have to wear them down, and then they become useless. If the fight goes on long enough, their stamina bar will deplete, and it becomes easy pickings.

From your answer it tells that you haven't played PvP at all or aren't good at it.
First of all you don't run out of resources this patch and next patch you won't run out either.
If you ever come close to being shy of stamina you'll be going right into mist form laughing at people trying to kill you while HP regen takes care of everything.

Right now, most heavy armor users have 20% cost reduction to roll dodge because of cp. In PTS, heavy armor users have 21% cost INCREASE to roll dodge (heavy armor penalties, and no more roll dodge reducing CP points). Relatively speaking, roll dodge is becoming 1.5x as expensive for heavy armor users as it currently is. Heavy users will run out of stamina.

Mist form and health regeneration is another issue, I'm not quite sure how it's relevant to what is being discussed currently.

Though I will mention that the 50 hp regen/10 ult points as it currently stands is way broken, but there is a separate CP rework feedback thread for that.

JoSePHRiNG

As the CP system, this also requires adjustment. But in casual playstyle like overland quests etc. it got even better.

Now with new changes, I am trying 2 heavy 5 medium with destruction staff and I don't see any difference than before.
I also like how every armor changed, so now even having 1 piece of any type is better than before.

I am not a PVP player nor a Trial player so I can not say much but I like it currently.

crazywolfpusher

crazywolfpusher wrote: »

We already have numerical defenses that do the job of damage mitigation. Putting extra layers of physics on top to have more less mitigation just complicate things instead of add flavour to each type of armor.
To successfully add more complexity and realism to armor types we would need a whole revamp of damage types and armor defenses and to be honest i dont think the game need that.

The penalties and benefits of armor types need to adress dodge cost, block cost, bash cost, movement speed, and resources regeneration. All things that involve motion. The core of ESO active combat system.

For instance, and i know lot of people would disagree but, Heavy and Tanking for that regard should have issues managing their resources but right now Tanking have tons of sustain benefits when should be the contrary.
Maybe tanks could drop the damage boost sets like Alkosh and care more about their own sustain and survavility and gave the role of buffing and sustain back to healers and make them more relevant.

Drazhar14

I don't understand the + and - % damages for light and heavy armor. The defense you get from each is based on the armor value. Heavy armor has a higher defense value than light already. Light will take more physical damage because its armor value is lower than heavy. The new extra stats are irrelevant.

Just giving light armor extra magic resistance and penetration will accomplish your same intention. Having negative stats should not exist. You're pretty much saying when you're naked you take normal damage, but if you put on a robe you suddenly take extra physical damage. Makes no sense and hurts the immersion you're trying to create by adding these new armor passives. Stick to positive modifiers. The downside should be you're losing out on the positive modifiers of other armor weights and not actual negative stats.

propertyOfUndefined

The light armor bonus that increases sneak speed detracts from the vampire dark stalker passive. The bonuses do not stack, which means light armor users have a useless vampire passive. I’d like to suggest changing this bonus to something else - perhaps sneak cost or sprint speed?

AmendmentI

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/559442/remove-the-changes-to-armor

Sandman929

Drazhar14 wrote: »

You're pretty much saying when you're naked you take normal damage, but if you put on a robe you suddenly take extra physical damage.

Point to @Drazhar14

twing1_

Drazhar14 wrote: »

I don't understand the + and - % damages for light and heavy armor. The defense you get from each is based on the armor value. Heavy armor has a higher defense value than light already. Light will take more physical damage because its armor value is lower than heavy. The new extra stats are irrelevant.

Just giving light armor extra magic resistance and penetration will accomplish your same intention. Having negative stats should not exist. You're pretty much saying when you're naked you take normal damage, but if you put on a robe you suddenly take extra physical damage. Makes no sense and hurts the immersion you're trying to create by adding these new armor passives. Stick to positive modifiers. The downside should be you're losing out on the positive modifiers of other armor weights and not actual negative stats.

They are trying to make a rock paper scissors dynamic between light armor, medium armor, and heavy armor in which light beats heavy, heavy beats medium, and medium beats light.

Simply adding spell penetration to light armor wouldn't be the same thing, because it would affect medium armor just the same as it would affect heavy armor.

I could agree that light armor's vulnerability to physical damage is already reflected in its pitiful amount of physical resistance, however.

Xebov

From a PvE point of view the changes make no sense.

We have 3 armor weights and they are tied to the 4 roles. Each weight offers passives that fit a specific role and each roles armor only drops in that weight. This forces Mag DDs and Healers to use light armor, Stam DDs to use medium armor and Tanks to use Heavy armor. There is no space for making odd builds because this is neither supported by gear nor by passives. There is simply no practical way to compensate for the penalties or make use of other armors bonuses.
For tanks this has an extra layer of making no sense because compensating heavy armor penalties with light pieces would drop the total mitigation by a level that outshines the benefits, while not being obvious.

The penalties for Block, Roll Dodde and Sprint make no sense as all of them are needed in fights and depending on the boss you are forced to use a specific one to stay alive. So the penalty does not fit well with the gameplay.

The Bonuses and penalties for magical and physical damage taken also make no sense. Tanks have to tank all the bosses and Mag DDs have to stay alive at all the bosses while dealing damage.

Dont forget this is not a single player elder scrolls game. This is an MMO where we have roles that need to be filled. So send this back to the drawing board, or even better scrap it.

ESO_Nightingale

Heavy's cc immunity bonuses are way overstacked. Heavy was already way better than light in pvp but now there's no reason to slot light at all when heavy makes you take less damage against the most common type of damage and makes you even bulkier than before. Heavy should have damage related decreases.

Drazhar14

Upon further reflection, all these changes are completely pointless due to the outfit and costume system. You want to make armor feel more like the type of armor you have equipped, but you can literally be wearing heavy armor that looks like light armor. Don't fix something that isn't broken. The current armor system is fine, it doesn't need these additional passives. Each set of armor fills a specific role, and mixing armor is already common for tanks and healers due to the undaunted passives with a 5/1/1 split. Damage dealers will always wear either 7 light or 7 medium for max damage, even with the new passives you proposed.

If anything, these changes are a rock paper scissors experiment for PvP, but for some reason you're calling it immersion and forcing it on PvE once again. I'd rather outfits be disabled in PvP so you can actually see the type of armor your opponent has, that way the rock paper scissor thing will actually make sense. Then you can introduce somee passives that are only active in PvP zones so you can balance that and PvE separately.

Nebthet78

ZOS you should have been honest and forthright about significantly nerfing Weapon Critical from Armor sets in this update.

I just checked the difference between LIVE and PTS for both Vicious Ophidian and Briarheart and Weapon Crit was Nerfed from 833 to 657.

My Wpn crit went from 76.3% to 68.2% nearly 8% drop.

So I'm assuming this was done to a vast majority of armor sets that you didn't mention in the PTS notes.

Nevermind, Found where it was, but it sure as hell isn't a 3% or 3.8% drop.

And yes, I have put everything into the new CP system where it was before... and it's still much lower in a few places.

YandereGirlfriend

Nebthet78 wrote: »

ZOS you should have been honest and forthright about significantly nerfing Weapon Critical from Armor sets in this update.

I just checked the difference between LIVE and PTS for both Vicious Ophidian and Briarheart and Weapon Crit was Nerfed from 833 to 657.

My Wpn crit went from 76.3% to 68.2% nearly 8% drop.

So I'm assuming this was done to a vast majority of armor sets that you didn't mention in the PTS notes.

Nevermind, Found where it was, but it sure as hell isn't a 3% or 3.8% drop.

And yes, I have put everything into the new CP system where it was before... and it's still much lower in a few places.

I'm fairly sure they stated this up-front in the patch notes.

Literally from the patch notes:

"Previously, Critical Chance was sourced very abundantly and was the clear winner in terms of a chasable stat for end game damage dealing in PvE, while having natural counters and operational costs in PvP. The main source of this issue was the fact that the standard rating of Critical Chance granted was too high, meaning item sets and passives that granted it were out of line when compared to other stats like Weapon and Spell Damage, or Penetration. With these adjustments, we expect many builds to have reduced Critical Chance rating, while also helping tone down the effectiveness of Critical Damage and Healing, unless your build goes out of its way to specifically chase those stats now."

Nebthet78

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Nebthet78 wrote: »

ZOS you should have been honest and forthright about significantly nerfing Weapon Critical from Armor sets in this update.

I just checked the difference between LIVE and PTS for both Vicious Ophidian and Briarheart and Weapon Crit was Nerfed from 833 to 657.

My Wpn crit went from 76.3% to 68.2% nearly 8% drop.

So I'm assuming this was done to a vast majority of armor sets that you didn't mention in the PTS notes.

Nevermind, Found where it was, but it sure as hell isn't a 3% or 3.8% drop.

And yes, I have put everything into the new CP system where it was before... and it's still much lower in a few places.

I'm fairly sure they stated this up-front in the patch notes.

Literally from the patch notes:

"Previously, Critical Chance was sourced very abundantly and was the clear winner in terms of a chasable stat for end game damage dealing in PvE, while having natural counters and operational costs in PvP. The main source of this issue was the fact that the standard rating of Critical Chance granted was too high, meaning item sets and passives that granted it were out of line when compared to other stats like Weapon and Spell Damage, or Penetration. With these adjustments, we expect many builds to have reduced Critical Chance rating, while also helping tone down the effectiveness of Critical Damage and Healing, unless your build goes out of its way to specifically chase those stats now."

And like I missed it in the Patch Notes, you missed where I said Nevermind I found it.

selig_fay

propertyOfUndefined wrote: »

The light armor bonus that increases sneak speed detracts from the vampire dark stalker passive. The bonuses do not stack, which means light armor users have a useless vampire passive. I’d like to suggest changing this bonus to something else - perhaps sneak cost or sprint speed?

It would be nice if it's stack. It would be great to sneak faster than run.