Update 29 Combat Preview

Strider__Roshin

This changes look good and all but every time I login to try the game out again I'm immediately turned off by the cast time on "instant" ultimates. Ruins the combat.

Dracane

Tannus15 wrote: »

Am I the only trials tank looking at this and thinking that taking 9% increased magicka damage in trials (which for most trials is the damage we actually care about) is a bad thing?
Like, whut??

7% when in full heavy armor or where does this extra 2% come from?
You also gain 10-14% damage resistance while CC immune. Which is mostly a pvp thing to be fair. Where it will be crazy OP, since you are always CC immune in actual combat as you get cced on cooldown. I feel like heavy armor from a pvp perspective will be the big winner.

Apart from medium armor, which just got better overall.

Tannus15

Dracane wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

Am I the only trials tank looking at this and thinking that taking 9% increased magicka damage in trials (which for most trials is the damage we actually care about) is a bad thing?
Like, whut??

7% when in full heavy armor or where does this extra 2% come from?
You also gain 10-14% damage resistance while CC immune. Which is mostly a pvp thing to be fair. Where it will be crazy OP, since you are always CC immune in actual combat as you get cced on cooldown. I feel like heavy armor from a pvp perspective will be the big winner.

Apart from medium armor, which just got better overall.

sorry, 7% more damage. but the point remains. this is clearly a PvP balance change and I don't see how it fits in PvE at all with regards to tanking.

Dracane

Tannus15 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

Am I the only trials tank looking at this and thinking that taking 9% increased magicka damage in trials (which for most trials is the damage we actually care about) is a bad thing?
Like, whut??

7% when in full heavy armor or where does this extra 2% come from?
You also gain 10-14% damage resistance while CC immune. Which is mostly a pvp thing to be fair. Where it will be crazy OP, since you are always CC immune in actual combat as you get cced on cooldown. I feel like heavy armor from a pvp perspective will be the big winner.

Apart from medium armor, which just got better overall.

sorry, 7% more damage. but the point remains. this is clearly a PvP balance change and I don't see how it fits in PvE at all with regards to tanking.

With my tank playstyle, I usually find myself more threatened by physical damage, since they love to add more uppercut spamming melee bosses and elite adds.

But for trials, it will be rather disadventageous.

Mettaricana

So wait on medium armor what happened to my wep damage bonus for 5pc is that still a thing or do armors no longer add to damage types?

volkeswagon

We shall see. I don't understand any of this. Seems pretty complicated. I always said combat is too complex in this game. I know people have been wanting something new. If it makes the game tougher and less enjoyable there are plenty of other games to play. Can't fault them for trying.

manny254

From a PVP perspective, I would really prefer if armor curses worked something like this.

LA: Takes 1% Increased Martial Damage per piece.
MA: Takes 1% Increased Magic Damage per piece.
Heavy: Reduces Damage done by 2% per piece. (While taking .5% reduced damage from Martial and Magic Damage)

This would mean that DPS oriented Stamina and Magicka players would counter each other, and that heavy would primarily be worn by support players.

Aliyavana

Azorean wrote: »

From the stream, Medium Armor doesn't seem to have any penalties. Any reason for that?

because the benefits are either for niche or RP playstyles

Dagoth_Rac

This seems like a massive change to the underlying structure of the game. There are so many changes and so many moving parts that there will be tons of buffed overpowered builds and tons of weak nerfed builds, and they will be found after launch by millions of players in a way that a small QA team would never find. So both PvE and PvP are likely to be a mess for 3 months and, considering size of changes, likely much longer. And this is assuming the changes work cleanly out of the box and don't break a bunch of other things.

I thought the idea with working from home and the limitations of a COVID world was to not do too much at once and bite off more than you could chew. I know these changes have been in the works for a long time, but this feels like just about the worst time to release them.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO

forzajuve212 wrote: »

I have a few questions:

1. Why are there no medium armor debuffs but light and heavy have substantial ones? Isn't this creating a systemic lack of balance between magicka and stamina builds in PVP?

2. How is it viable for a player to have light and heavy armor mimic and cancel each other out when you would be forfeiting the 5 piece bonuses of light and heavy armor? Isn't it unfair to have medium armor gain access to the benefits of a 5 piece of armor but Magicka builds have to either accept the debuffs or sacrifice 5 piece bonuses to cancel out debuffs?

3. How will light armor be viable in PVP when it will have debuffs such as 5% increased block cost per piece of light armor? Unless you're a magicka sorc, this effectively means if you choose light armor, you will die and die quickly, without any benefit to damage output to mitigate these debuffs. Shouldn't light armor deal more damage because of this?

4. Why does medium armor take less damage from AoE? and more block cost reduction? AoE is one of the only counters to dodge rolling stamina builds. Further, stamina already has dodge roll benefits over magicka builds. Letting them have increased block reduction essentially provides stam with all the benefits to do anything they want in PvP with no negatives.

simple again they are looking after stamina more

SOLDIER_1stClass

Azorean wrote: »

From the stream, Medium Armor doesn't seem to have any penalties. Any reason for that?

We do, its called roll increase. Its literally our only defensive capability and their is an increase tax after each use.

Gramma

i sure hope understanding this easier in practice than it is in theory. i only just got used to creating character builds and even though i am super casual despite playing since beta, i maxed like half a dozen toons without even really trying. so i could see that the game needed to be more challenging. really, i could fully level halfway by just completing bal foyen, betnikh, bleakrock, coldharbor (soulshriven), khenarthi's roost, and a single zone like glenumbra. and i would fully level just adding the mage's guild or main quest questlines to it. so it could be made a bit more difficult without me grumbling. but the idea of having to redo all those alts i leveled and possibly regear them is enough to almost make me want to pick a new hobby.
also, why did i only receive one single solitary crate and the pet when i watched the entire live stream and participated constantly? that's ridiculous. i don't want to appear ungrateful but we were promised more than one crate for watching the entire livestream on twitch.

joaaocaampos

Medium Armor Bonuses

• Reduces the cost of Block by X%

WHY?

This is a bonus for Heavy Armor, not Medium Armor! Medium Armor already has too many bonuses, without penalty!

DoggedBark24

Dracane wrote: »

When making light armor - the most fragile armor in the game - even more susceptible to physical damage, you forget that it already has by far the lowest physical resistance of all. The roleplay aspect of that is already displayed by the armor value itself. Its resistance to magic is displayed by the little bit of spell resistance it grants as well.

Also, you said in the stream that bashing with light armor should be easier and thus cheaper. Why does the same not go for blocking or at least, why is the opposite true for blocking? Light armor should not make it more costly to do that.

Unless you have not added any damage or sustain increases to the other passives alongside this, I find it questionable from a pvp standpoint to make the most fragile armor more fragile against the most common and dangerous damage type. Which is physical. Most players, most proc sets and snipers use it. So at the very least, light armor should get something meaningful to justify its fragile nature.

Right now, Medium armor is just all around better and stronger in pvp and also the only armor with no penalty for wearing it. I believe in the end it will be found that adding damage weakness to either armor is deemed a wrong move. We will see.
Light armor is very undesirable in pvp, medium even now is at least an option. Light armor users already struggle to survive and this might just make it harder. I would like to see a reason to run light armor.

I can't agree with this more, as is Stam builds out perform in most cases in PVE and PVP. Even worse, is that so much stuff gives free Spell Resistance from classes or even races and spell damage is mostly lower compared to weapon damage. Now if they were double or even triple spell damage on everything then it might be suitable for these changes.

Aerius_Sygale

J18696 wrote: »

xgoku1 wrote: »

What about players already at max CP (810)? Will there be some form of CP normalization to fit the new higher cap of 3600? Or do we need to grind to 3600 from 810?

You will need to grind more some people are already at 3000+ cp

Seen screenshot/video proof of someone at 3000+, have you? Other than cheating devs showing off DLC, of course...

Athan1

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

The capability to control which stars you slot at any given time is the main aspect that governs vertical progression. Other stars which grant stats by unlocking their thresholds, and don’t need to be slotted, will further increase your power vertically. The blend of these two types of stars allows the updated Champion System to offer both power and choice while also promoting greater consideration of, and consequences for, your choices.

Thanks for the info, @ZOS_BrianWheeler ! These changes look interesting. I think there's a typo here, you probably meant horizontal progression instead of vertical.

SOLDIER_1stClass

joaaocaampos wrote: »

Medium Armor Bonuses

• Reduces the cost of Block by X%

WHY?

This is a bonus for Heavy Armor, not Medium Armor! Medium Armor already has too many bonuses, without penalty!

Medium armor has no redeeming qualities in either pvp or pve.

PvP is ruled by heavy armor and pve is ruled my magicka and light armor

And medium armors defense is roll dodge which has a built in increase tax each use that is its penalty.

Which might I add is utterly useless with how dominant aoes are.

AmendmentI

The armor thing would make more sense if players actually had a choice for what weight their sets came in(noncrafted). But we dont. At this point it's a pointless penalty just for playing your role.....

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

Minyassa

Ye gods this is complicated, and I am genuinely glad for those people who love theory crafting, but some of us loathe it and have difficulty with it and I have *just* gotten to enjoy having a "finished" character for a couple of months and now I feel that I'll be dumped back into the "incompetent reject" bin again. I hope to gods this isn't as big a puzzle as it looks from this description or I'm sunk.

James-Wayne

ACamaroGuy wrote: »

So what exactly will be the new usable CP? Right now I'm able to use 810 of my 1256.

Brian said on stream all acquired CP you have to date is unlocked for you to use Day 1

manny254

Aerius_Sygale wrote: »

J18696 wrote: »

xgoku1 wrote: »

What about players already at max CP (810)? Will there be some form of CP normalization to fit the new higher cap of 3600? Or do we need to grind to 3600 from 810?

You will need to grind more some people are already at 3000+ cp

Seen screenshot/video proof of someone at 3000+, have you? Other than cheating devs showing off DLC, of course...

There was a post a while back about a PC EU player getting to 3600 CP. I have also seen people with above 3K CP on PC NA.

Firstmep

Vevvev wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

i feel like Medium Armor is left out from what I saw.

They said that was one of the examples. They didn't post the entire full change log of all the light/medium/heavy stats.

They showed the changes on eso live.

Firstmep

Cp rework seems interesting, the new armor passives feel like they're forced on us for rps sake.
My takeaway from all that was said: No class balancing once again.

Aerius_Sygale

manny254 wrote: »

Aerius_Sygale wrote: »

J18696 wrote: »

xgoku1 wrote: »

What about players already at max CP (810)? Will there be some form of CP normalization to fit the new higher cap of 3600? Or do we need to grind to 3600 from 810?

You will need to grind more some people are already at 3000+ cp

Seen screenshot/video proof of someone at 3000+, have you? Other than cheating devs showing off DLC, of course...

There was a post a while back about a PC EU player getting to 3600 CP. I have also seen people with above 3K CP on PC NA.

...Well, surely having over 1900 is still above the mass majority... Surely that is a respectably large number...as I also took the time to eventually reach Alliance War Rank 50 (Grand Overlord Grade 2)...

Urzigurumash

If Medium takes less damage from Magicka AoEs than Heavy after a Roll Dodge, even after differences in Resistances and even without casting Shuffle (which I'm not sure it does, but it sounds like it might), can we please get Increased Damage Done for Melee Direct Damage after a Gapclose for Heavy? Both of these things can be construed to make sense from an RP perspective. I'm fond of adjustments to undo the narrow rule that Medium = Damage and Heavy = Defense, and instead making it so that Medium = Agility and Heavy = Mass, with whatever benefits and penalties that idea might suggest.

Bergzorn

Not looking forward to everything I read here and we'll see how it all plays out, but one thing is a great and long overdue change:

511-light builds will get break-free cost reduction of 25%.

GrimTheReaper45

I have concerns about both of the combat changes but mainly the armor.


In pve the roles are designed around gear weights, gear has effects based on weight, we have passives based on weight. Tanks have to wear heavy, mag has to wear light. I dont see how this changes anything besides forcing tanks to take more mag damage and light armor to take even more stam damage along with the increased damage the receive from lower resistances already.

In pvp there already exist a large performance difference between classes wearing light armor and stam heavy builds. Yes fighting eachother will result in them taking similar damage from this change but thats also on top of the decreased resistance of light in the first place.

I just dont think this change really fits into how we build characters in eso.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO

sat wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf

sat wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf

this is going to just make nb's more powerful

alainjbrennanb16_ESO

manny254 wrote: »

From a PVP perspective, I would really prefer if armor curses worked something like this.

LA: Takes 1% Increased Martial Damage per piece.
MA: Takes 1% Increased Magic Damage per piece.
Heavy: Reduces Damage done by 2% per piece. (While taking .5% reduced damage from Martial and Magic Damage)

This would mean that DPS oriented Stamina and Magicka players would counter each other, and that heavy would primarily be worn by support players.

iam sorry it wont, i can pull 30k brust damage in pvp in heavy armour this would just make every go heavy armour in pvp

alainjbrennanb16_ESO

SOLDIER_1stClass wrote: »

Azorean wrote: »

From the stream, Medium Armor doesn't seem to have any penalties. Any reason for that?

We do, its called roll increase. Its literally our only defensive capability and their is an increase tax after each use.

personal i dont think the roll increase is a big thing i can do 3/4 on a mag users