Nightblades arnt playble at all

KhajiitLivesMatter · January 2021

Sanctum74 wrote: »

show previous quotes

KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »

Theignson wrote: »

KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »

Fawn4287 wrote: »

This problem is game wide currently, DOTs are always going to be strong when most burst combos can’t put down an average player in heavy armour with 35k+ health. I find it quite ironic that someone with so much playtime on a class thats been the root cause of essentially all 1 hit PvP playstyles is now complaining about the inability to kill people on the class that can hit disgustingly high weapon damage and have an ungodly amount of utility from shade and cloak. For a large portion of the game minimum health pools have been diretly dictated by whatever a meta stamblade burst combo can put out.

Incap does a substantial amount of direct single target damage plus gives a 20% damage boost for 75 ult cost, coupled with relentless that hits harder than any leap tooltip and you can run around putting most builds in to execute range with a 2 hit combo then execute with the damage boost still up. Theres still no combo that can easily put you on the backfoot as quickly and easily as this. DKs have always been strong 1v1 and if you allow yourself to hit a 60-70% health without blocking you should expect to die to an fairly predictable leap execute.

and thats the problem "when most burst combos can’t put down an average player in heavy armour with 35k+ health."
the whole class is to kill average players with 1 combo - but u cant thats why nb dont work
sure i have good mobility with shade/ cloack but if i cant kill an enemie its useless

btw i checked my stats i have ~ weap dmg 5,7k weap dmg
~36k stam
12k~ penetration
+10%dmg boost from a set
stats without balorg

and its just not enought to kill avrage players and if that insane stats are not enought than the class is underpowerd

and for heaving this stats i sacraficed all defense i have in cyro 20k health and (buffed) 17k resis and 1.3k crit resi

btw the ult without stun costs only 70

even if i survive to get my combo ready after i used my ult everyone breaks free and dodges 2x and after few seconds all my buffs are gone without a chance to kill someone

sure i still can kill bad players but the meta duds the "avrage ones" cant me killed by a stam blade

You cant run these 20k health no crit resist glass cannon builds anymore. Check out the "iron cannon" stam NB build for ideas. You need to have more health and crit resists and resists so you don't just drop dead when someone looks at you.

It means you can't just gank people without a fight, you have to melee some, and to do that you have to HP, resists, crit resists. NB cloak is still one of the strongest abilities in the game. NB with cloak, some reisists and wild hunt is very hard to kill

that is not the problem the problem is the missing dmg

if i cant kill avrage players with a glass canon build i can for sure not kill them with a tankier build

Then figure out how to get more damage. Stamblade is capable of killing everything. If you’re expecting to kill everyone in just 1 combo then you’re not really earning the kill.

I run a 5 medium 2 heavy no cloak build and I can kill most players without using an ult or bow proc so there is plenty of damage, but sometimes you gotta work for it.

its not possible to get way higher stats than i have so there is no way to do more dmg

and like i said stam nb is my main with over 130ingame days (/played) and pvp rank 41
and just everythink else i play in pvp is 5x easier and 5x stronger

Fawn4287 · January 2021

KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »

show previous quotes

Fawn4287 wrote: »

This problem is game wide currently, DOTs are always going to be strong when most burst combos can’t put down an average player in heavy armour with 35k+ health. I find it quite ironic that someone with so much playtime on a class thats been the root cause of essentially all 1 hit PvP playstyles is now complaining about the inability to kill people on the class that can hit disgustingly high weapon damage and have an ungodly amount of utility from shade and cloak. For a large portion of the game minimum health pools have been diretly dictated by whatever a meta stamblade burst combo can put out.

Incap does a substantial amount of direct single target damage plus gives a 20% damage boost for 75 ult cost, coupled with relentless that hits harder than any leap tooltip and you can run around putting most builds in to execute range with a 2 hit combo then execute with the damage boost still up. Theres still no combo that can easily put you on the backfoot as quickly and easily as this. DKs have always been strong 1v1 and if you allow yourself to hit a 60-70% health without blocking you should expect to die to an fairly predictable leap execute.

and thats the problem "when most burst combos can’t put down an average player in heavy armour with 35k+ health."
the whole class is to kill average players with 1 combo - but u cant thats why nb dont work
sure i have good mobility with shade/ cloack but if i cant kill an enemie its useless

btw i checked my stats i have ~ weap dmg 5,7k weap dmg
~36k stam
12k~ penetration
+10%dmg boost from a set
stats without balorg

and its just not enought to kill avrage players and if that insane stats are not enought than the class is underpowerd

and for heaving this stats i sacraficed all defense i have in cyro 20k health and (buffed) 17k resis and 1.3k crit resi

btw the ult without stun costs only 70

even if i survive to get my combo ready after i used my ult everyone breaks free and dodges 2x and after few seconds all my buffs are gone without a chance to kill someone

sure i still can kill bad players but the meta duds the "avrage ones" cant me killed by a stam blade

You are running the wrong build then, sounds like you essentially built to gank and if the gank fails you are subject to flattening, I suspect that even in earlier patches you would be 1 detect pot from a flattening. I see many players use absurdly high weapon damage stats but the players I see 1vXing fairly easy are wardens in heavy dropping no good damage numbers but hit 10k burst heals from arctic blast. You should definitely try eternal vigor with either briar or new moon in the current meta, this isn’t the days of 22k health light armour builds.

Qbiken · January 2021

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Stamina nightblade is the best solo pvp class in the game for the past 3 patches.

Lol

Kikazaru · January 2021

Stamblades (magblades to a certain degree) are playable, especially if one choose to become a ganker. These cheese builds can achieve 30k+ combos easily. I've been on the receiving end against such builds.

Nightblade damage is fine right now, they can hit very hard against most set ups. The culprit for their "weak" damage is this proc meta. That's it. These players can stack an obscene amount of health while also having access to powerful heals that scale off their max health, which makes it easy to recover from a burst with a couple of presses. That's expected from a tanky build.... except having the ability to equip procs sets and have enough damage to kill other players. So more and more people are adopting this playestyle which is making it harder for non-gank stat dense builds that are fully reliant on unexpected combos via class skills to take them down. What needs to be done is for ZOS to address the core issues that enables the proc meta and stamblades will be in a way better position.

Another issue is how difficult it is to land your combos successfully since incap/soul harvest/bow proc can easily be dodged or blocked even after you stun them. ZOS can make some adjustments to those skills so it becomes a bit more reliable to land.

NBs aren't bad at all. The last thing they need is a damage buff. They don't need to empower gankers even more.

Edit: I prefer magblades over stamblades majority of the time. Magicka nbs truly have it hard in Cyro outside of bombing and ganking. The woes of a stamblade don't even compare at all. XD

Strider__Roshin · January 2021

Yeah the combat is too slow for my taste. The cast time on Incap killed the game for me.

Dracane · January 2021

KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »

show previous quotes

Fawn4287 wrote: »

This problem is game wide currently, DOTs are always going to be strong when most burst combos can’t put down an average player in heavy armour with 35k+ health. I find it quite ironic that someone with so much playtime on a class thats been the root cause of essentially all 1 hit PvP playstyles is now complaining about the inability to kill people on the class that can hit disgustingly high weapon damage and have an ungodly amount of utility from shade and cloak. For a large portion of the game minimum health pools have been diretly dictated by whatever a meta stamblade burst combo can put out.

Incap does a substantial amount of direct single target damage plus gives a 20% damage boost for 75 ult cost, coupled with relentless that hits harder than any leap tooltip and you can run around putting most builds in to execute range with a 2 hit combo then execute with the damage boost still up. Theres still no combo that can easily put you on the backfoot as quickly and easily as this. DKs have always been strong 1v1 and if you allow yourself to hit a 60-70% health without blocking you should expect to die to an fairly predictable leap execute.

and thats the problem "when most burst combos can’t put down an average player in heavy armour with 35k+ health."
the whole class is to kill average players with 1 combo - but u cant thats why nb dont work
sure i have good mobility with shade/ cloack but if i cant kill an enemie its useless

btw i checked my stats i have ~ weap dmg 5,7k weap dmg
~36k stam
12k~ penetration
+10%dmg boost from a set
stats without balorg

and its just not enought to kill avrage players and if that insane stats are not enought than the class is underpowerd

and for heaving this stats i sacraficed all defense i have in cyro 20k health and (buffed) 17k resis and 1.3k crit resi

btw the ult without stun costs only 70

even if i survive to get my combo ready after i used my ult everyone breaks free and dodges 2x and after few seconds all my buffs are gone without a chance to kill someone

sure i still can kill bad players but the meta duds the "avrage ones" cant me killed by a stam blade

This is interesting, because many people claim damage to be absurdly high right now and use it as a reason for why they build tanky. This does not include proc sets.

I am of your opinion, for I find player damage rather low outside of proc sets. Like you, I play with very high damage stats and still often struggle to burst anything that is not a fragile light armor sorcerer.
People underestimate the importance of undodgeable executes as a Nightblade. I often survive those that use 2hander for execute because I can dodge. Stamblades that use Whirlwind instead and magblades that use Drain power, are much deadlier than purely single target nukers.

Just my opinion. Building for burst is really triffling at the moment with all those high health pools. Let us hope something is done about it and people actually play average builds as in average health again.

UntouchableHunter · January 2021

You need to practice more this patch.

A magNB ganked my magdk with 42k health. He stunned me, I tried to break free and one sec lag was enough to he take of all my 42k health. Never somebody ganked me. Never. This was the first guy. So the burst for NB mag or Stam still crazy.

I have a post in this forum with a NB that with his friends killed me and did 18k Executioner. And hitted really hard with surprise attack and Incap.

IC is infested by NB, Snipers, Gankers, procs, everything. Yes if we get them we can kill but with cloak and shade and de builds they can avoid and we wait for the next attack.

I do think you need to practice a little more in this patch because there is a lot of good NB killing everythink

Waffennacht · January 2021

@UntouchableHunter you cant use IC as an example.

In that place imperial physique is almost mandatory and hyper inflates many abilities.

In no CP I dont see anything ganking 42k health anything even with lag. Maybe a snipe Desync.

Pauwer · January 2021

I agree that other players are so tanky these days that a combo burst nb is rip. Of course i can still kill "bad" players on stam nb as before, i know people post stam nb vids doing just that. But they don't post vids against good players, probs because it would look a LITTLE different.

I have also fixed my other chars to be tanky and nbs can't kill me at all. I can hear all their skills coming and they are easy peasy to dodge. I posted on another thread how i was on my horse on my magplar, looking at map. I hear ambush, surprise attack, incap and i just put the map away and ride away on my horse without even being dismounted. This is the state of the assassin from shadows. And you ask why some nbs snipe. They might maybe score a kill once in a while that way.

Also, the cast times and the lag make the fast nb playstyle impossible. I would say play your nb on the daytime and other toons on the peak times. Because on busy times you will be endlessly cc'd without break free working and none of your skills will fire, if you didn't yet get cc'd.

UntouchableHunter · January 2021

Waffennacht wrote: »

@UntouchableHunter you cant use IC as an example.

In that place imperial physique is almost mandatory and hyper inflates many abilities.

In no CP I dont see anything ganking 42k health anything even with lag. Maybe a snipe Desync.

He was not wearing Imp Physique.

Mechanicall Acuity
Barlogh
Calurion

I don't know too much about no CP.

oscarovegren · January 2021

KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »

show previous quotes

Theignson wrote: »

KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »

Fawn4287 wrote: »

This problem is game wide currently, DOTs are always going to be strong when most burst combos can’t put down an average player in heavy armour with 35k+ health. I find it quite ironic that someone with so much playtime on a class thats been the root cause of essentially all 1 hit PvP playstyles is now complaining about the inability to kill people on the class that can hit disgustingly high weapon damage and have an ungodly amount of utility from shade and cloak. For a large portion of the game minimum health pools have been diretly dictated by whatever a meta stamblade burst combo can put out.

Incap does a substantial amount of direct single target damage plus gives a 20% damage boost for 75 ult cost, coupled with relentless that hits harder than any leap tooltip and you can run around putting most builds in to execute range with a 2 hit combo then execute with the damage boost still up. Theres still no combo that can easily put you on the backfoot as quickly and easily as this. DKs have always been strong 1v1 and if you allow yourself to hit a 60-70% health without blocking you should expect to die to an fairly predictable leap execute.

and thats the problem "when most burst combos can’t put down an average player in heavy armour with 35k+ health."
the whole class is to kill average players with 1 combo - but u cant thats why nb dont work
sure i have good mobility with shade/ cloack but if i cant kill an enemie its useless

btw i checked my stats i have ~ weap dmg 5,7k weap dmg
~36k stam
12k~ penetration
+10%dmg boost from a set
stats without balorg

and its just not enought to kill avrage players and if that insane stats are not enought than the class is underpowerd

and for heaving this stats i sacraficed all defense i have in cyro 20k health and (buffed) 17k resis and 1.3k crit resi

btw the ult without stun costs only 70

even if i survive to get my combo ready after i used my ult everyone breaks free and dodges 2x and after few seconds all my buffs are gone without a chance to kill someone

sure i still can kill bad players but the meta duds the "avrage ones" cant me killed by a stam blade

You cant run these 20k health no crit resist glass cannon builds anymore. Check out the "iron cannon" stam NB build for ideas. You need to have more health and crit resists and resists so you don't just drop dead when someone looks at you.

It means you can't just gank people without a fight, you have to melee some, and to do that you have to HP, resists, crit resists. NB cloak is still one of the strongest abilities in the game. NB with cloak, some reisists and wild hunt is very hard to kill

that is not the problem the problem is the missing dmg

if i cant kill avrage players with a glass canon build i can for sure not kill them with a tankier build

If you cant kill average players with a stamNB then you are a pretty average player yourself

kaithuzar · January 2021

Gilvoth wrote: »

because instant death to people in what looked like 1 hit is just stupid.
way way way too much damage in 1 attack coming from multiple attacks but all we see is just 1 attacks, we look at death counter and it shows multiple things that happened but all we saw was just "BAM"

so it was nerfed, and rightly so.

I don’t agree at all.
Humans are supposed to be pretty darn good pattern recognition. How many times have we blatantly told the developers on the PTS forum “ this is a bad idea “, and they do it anyways as if it’s some new concept that this set bonus or this build is going to be terrible for the player base.

You can in no way say “rightly so” given the state of proc sets in the game and how other classes and builds are still allowed to do the one shot Meta but no not nightblade not the class that supposed to be in assassin! GASP!

kaithuzar · January 2021

Kikazaru wrote: »

Stamblades (magblades to a certain degree) are playable, especially if one choose to become a ganker. These cheese builds can achieve 30k+ combos easily. I've been on the receiving end against such builds.

Nightblade damage is fine right now, they can hit very hard against most set ups. The culprit for their "weak" damage is this proc meta. That's it. These players can stack an obscene amount of health while also having access to powerful heals that scale off their max health, which makes it easy to recover from a burst with a couple of presses. That's expected from a tanky build.... except having the ability to equip procs sets and have enough damage to kill other players. So more and more people are adopting this playestyle which is making it harder for non-gank stat dense builds that are fully reliant on unexpected combos via class skills to take them down. What needs to be done is for ZOS to address the core issues that enables the proc meta and stamblades will be in a way better position.

Another issue is how difficult it is to land your combos successfully since incap/soul harvest/bow proc can easily be dodged or blocked even after you stun them. ZOS can make some adjustments to those skills so it becomes a bit more reliable to land.

NBs aren't bad at all. The last thing they need is a damage buff. They don't need to empower gankers even more.

Edit: I prefer magblades over stamblades majority of the time. Magicka nbs truly have it hard in Cyro outside of bombing and ganking. The woes of a stamblade don't even compare at all. XD

I feel like you have some conflicting statements so I agree with some things and I disagreed with some things.

Let me explain, Night Blade especially magic night Blade has complete garbage damage.
The only way to get good damage is to use a proc set, or be PVE spec’d, which means you likely will fall over dead if someone looks at you.

Proc sets, are the primary reason there are tanks in PVP.
1) when you don’t have to stack actual raw stats like weapon and spell damage or weapon and spell penetration or weapon and spell crit, you can now wear a single five piece set that will proc, heck you can even wear a single monster set + malacaths band that will proc for 20k+ damage NON-Crit & could 1-shot your opponent!
Therefore you’re free to build as Tanky as you like and still do damage and get kills.

2) now that we have every idiot in the game running a proc set, how can we survive such a thing!?!? Oh I know, let’s build tankier! That should prevent us from being Insta-killed!

As a magic nightblade, the amount of damage raw stat, not proc, that I have to stack is so ridiculously high or else I’m hitting people with a wet noodle. The nightblade, The Premier assassin class whose primary benefit is CRITICAL attacks, and yet I am having more success with malacaths band & saying “forget about crit & crit dmg as stats altogether!” It’s the most ridiculously absurd thing! You’re not going to tell a sorc to play without streak! No one would advise a magic player to use a stamina-based class or vice versa.
( Sidenote : there was a period of time in the game many years ago where the best stamina players used magic classes and vice versa but this is not that Meta and that hasn’t been for a long long time)

My point is there is a clear many imbalances within the game, there has been for years and fixing them starts with the removal of proc sets in PVP.
Next on the agenda, I would say the biggest imbalance is stamina having an AOE execute. For me impale hits less than 1/4 of the time, hits only one target , and it can be reflected back at me.
They haphazardly attempted to normalize damage but it would appear they did not take practicality into account. Dizzying swing and light attack weaving provides immense pressure when compared against concealed weapon and light attack weaving. Both the damage and the knock down as well as the, I’ll call it “animation fluidity” as I don’t know if there’s an actual animation that’s being canceled, vastly outperform a magic nightblades options for spammable pressure.
So what’s the alternative? Have you ever tried to weave swallow soul with a sword light attack ? It’s terrible !
Oh try your fire staff you say, I think I’ve managed to land more impales than I have staff light attacks in the entirety of the game!
Did you know a player can be standing directly in front of you not moving not pressing any buttons and your light attacks with the fire staff will completely miss for no reason at all!!!!
Whether it’s 50% of the time an innate dodge chance kicks in, that the character automatically dodges without input from the player! And 50% of the time it’s just an absolutely garbage targeting system where the fireball will blitz right beside them & not hit!

Sure, proc sets seem to be landing, but until they fix magic light attacks, or until they allow concealed to knock you into the air so I can soul harvest before you even land (yea I’m looking at you stam dk, back when dizzy was a knockup into leap while I’m in the freaking air), I can’t get on board with the idea the nightblade has any fraction of the damage it used to have & definitely not the damage necessary to compete in today’s PVP.

kijima · January 2021

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Stamina nightblade is the best solo pvp class in the game for the past 3 patches.

Define best?

I have the most 'fun' solo with a stamina nightblade in cyro, (especially on the devil's lettuce once I've found my groove) but for me, I don't find it the "best" per say. Best fun, yes 100%.

Best kill/die ratios, or whatever meta you use to determine what the best is. It's a negatory ghost rider, the pattern is full.

Stamden when you get after it... damn son! It's hard for me to think of what makes a better class for solo pvp in cyro.

Defining what best actually means for you, I think this is the tricky part.

NagualV · January 2021

I main and only play a magblade and feel theres a fine line between NBS being bad and OP. I believe magblade damage is good lol - I would love to see what would happen with performance improvements plus a look at travel times/cast times/reliability of assassins will/soul harvest.

Pauwer · January 2021

kijima wrote: »

show previous quotes

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Stamina nightblade is the best solo pvp class in the game for the past 3 patches.

Define best?

I have the most 'fun' solo with a stamina nightblade in cyro, (especially on the devil's lettuce once I've found my groove) but for me, I don't find it the "best" per say. Best fun, yes 100%.

Best kill/die ratios, or whatever meta you use to determine what the best is. It's a negatory ghost rider, the pattern is full.

Stamden when you get after it... damn son! It's hard for me to think of what makes a better class for solo pvp in cyro.

Defining what best actually means for you, I think this is the tricky part.

I also agree that when you learn stamden, you can see how ridiculous the nb is compared to warden. It of course is a different playstyle, but you know what i mean. Warden is just superior. And for the love of gods, i don't mean like warden is too strong. I just wish nb was better. Or peeps not so tanky. But like, a tanky opponent is not an issue when you play a warden.