The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
18k Executioner in a 35k resistance? Mag needs a executioner
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UntouchableHunter✭✭✭✭UntouchableHunter wrote: »Radiant destruction is a bad execute, in pvp, take a split second before does any damage, cannot be animation canceled and leave you vulnerable while channeling
By that logic executioner is a bad execute because it can be dodged and have 5 meters radius. And after recent changes executioner also cannot be animation cacelled plus takes a split of second before it hits (animation of the swnging weapon needs to touch enemy to register the hit) and due to the same changes very often it cannot be even fired despite being in range when it was casted due to how server vs client calculations were changed.
Also nice shift in discussion from executes existance to executes balance.
It doesn't take aay the fact the executioner can be and is used by every stam build pretty much, same cannot be said for mag, there isn't a universal execution skill.
The same logic can be used against lot of different types of abilities in PvP You know. For example there are no universal shields abilities , there is no universal healing weapon skill line etc. Yes sherlock magicka and stamina setups are different.
Also let's wait and see how big those additional damage to low health targets on Impulse will be when they'll fix it.
We have Bone Shield and Vigor Stamina based skills.
Stamina class have access to Executioner, Bone Shield and Vigor you would say that mag class have access also, but is a stamina cost ability and some scales with stamina.
So I still can see stamina class in a huge advantage in pvp for other reasons + plus this amazing skill called Executioner.
ZOS tell me why you don't give to mag class a similar ability to mag class???
Could be melee range no problem but we need it to still play pvp with our mag classes.
Bone shield scales of health not from stamina. , it only costs stamina to cast. That's quite a difference from what I was talking about. Side note when it was scaling from stamina on PTS it was scrapped because it was considered too strong.
Vigor is a single ability not whole skill line. That's quite a difference from what I was talking about.
Also those were just examples of the differences to give You an idea that differences exist and not everything is or has to be equall. Instead of understanding it You've just started to disect those examples , missing the point rntirely.
You still have a shield and a healing.
Mag still not have a execute.
Doesn't matter you try to say it is quite different or run to a point to other.
The truth is stamina have access a healing and shield and execute that any stamina can run it.
And think about this, I prefer have a skill like vigor that I don't need to use a specifically weapon to access only a skill as mag class do with rapid regen.
I would prefer a vigor for Mag and I can use sword and board and still have a healing like vigor. Or use offensive weapons and still have a vigor to use.
So you brought another point, but when we see how it works in reality we see that stamina have to much more options and possibilities to be better in pvp that mag.Edited by UntouchableHunter on January 16, 2021 9:22PM3 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭UntouchableHunter wrote: »UntouchableHunter wrote: »UntouchableHunter wrote: »
You possibly got hit with so little health remaining that anything would kill You at this point. You say that game is unbalanced because You got hit with 18k executioner but what difference does it make for how much it hit You when You had something like 1k health left. It's not impressive , it's expected for this ability to hit for so much when hitting debuffed target with 1 milimeter health points left on the health bar.
Tell that to the mag executes, oh wait
Well i've seen impales hitting in PvP for 15k+ so...
Also execute with the strongest scaling in the game is a macicka skill called radiant oppression. You wont see it hitting for 18k though because it's combined out of ticks rather then singular hit so when enemy is at 1% health 1 tick will obliterate him.
15k <18k
And was in a heavy armor like the executioner? Of course not Executioner scales 400% and starts at 50% the damage is really different.
Also radian opression and impale a are not mag skills, are NB and Templar skills, no other class can use it.
So mag class still need a Executioner
15k=18k when enemy health is at 1k. The difference is that Impale can hit for 15k between 1% and 25% of someones health when that 18k executioner will require for someone to be usually under 5%. And as I already mentioned at this point it won't even matter wheter it was 15k or 18k. 18k is just nice looking number nothing more. I've never seen definition of magicka execute saying that it has to be not tied to class skill lines.
Oh and for the record read Impulse tooltip for fire dmg additional effect. And yes I know currently Impulse is bugged but still it's an execute by design.
15k will never be 18k we have so many situations, I could use magma shell, be a vampire stage 4, have shield, using the set that's gives me 30% mitigation etc
You are trying to cover de difference between 15k 18k but in pvp 3k is a lot.
To use impale you must put the player in 25% healthy to even use it.
Did you see that the guy hitting me was NB and choose use a Executioner instead his NB execute?
I"m not saying NB execute is bad, I'm just saying we need a execute for Mag class like Executioner.
You are playing around saying other stuffs...
Did you ever use impulse as a execute ability? This is a joke for sure...
[snip] "UP TO 400%" does not equall to "always 400%". Up to means that 400% will be reached only when enemy reaches 1% health but at this point everything will kill him. Executioner starts with 1% dmg buff when enemy is around 50% health and ends with 400% buff when enemy is at 1% health. That value grows linearly inbetween health boundaries so for example at 25% health it'll be 200% dmg buff and around 12% health it'll be 300% health buff. So 25% health executioner will hit for wasy less then impale. It'll start to hit more when enemy will be around 12% health but at this point in PvP most of the time it wont matter what that value is numerically. The same executioner that hit You for 18k would hit You for something like 11k when You would have 25% health when at the same time impale could still hit You for 15k.
The reason why nb's choose to use executioner over killer's blade is simple. Executioner is more reliable damage wise because this ability is designed purely for damage without any additional effects. It's harder to use assasin's blade because if enemy have 26% or more health for example and You'll hit him You'll bnot qualify for additional damage and in PvP it's sometimes hard to aim excatly wheter or not enemy will be under 25% health in next second. Margin of mistake is smaller here. That's still fair trade because killer's blade have also healing componenmt attached to it plus it deals disease dmg so it have a chance to apply disease status effect so it's obvious it needs to be slightly weaker damage wise. Still there ar stamblades using it in PvP.
At 1k health You could use anything You want and it still wouldnt save You from anything even regular spammable ability. That supprise attack on death recap hit You for almost 8k. If enemy would use it instead of executioner You would still die. At 1k health everything that hits You for more then 1k can be considered as equall in effectiveness. And when we discuss 15k hit vs 18k hit it's highly unlikely that there will be defences that will protect Your 1k health agaisnt 15k but wont protect You against 18k. It's also worth to come back to that 8k supprise attack. That value shows that You were debuffed really hard. You had 20% dmg taken debuff from incap and despite You advertising Your 35k resists it's quite possible that nb ignored around 20k of it (maul , major fracture , sharpened weapon , master assasin passive , CP's etc). That 8k supprise attack and almost 30k dmg taken before executioner indicates that executioner on crit should hit You for that amount. It's nothing unusual it's expoected when You're being hit with execute ability when heavily debuffed and at very low health.
As for magicka setups not using Impulse well it's quite obvious nobody is using it right now. Ability itself was changed to behave like execute in Markarth so it's pretty fresh change that still don't work properly because ZoS being the pro developers they're havn't done anything to fix it yet. I cannot joke about ability that can't even be tested properly. You saying it's a joke must be a joke. Give them a time to fix something that is already in the game instead of asking for new features.
Finally it doesnt mean that magicka setups needs executioner like ability only because stamina setups have it or because You say so. There are still things magicka setups have acces to that stamina don't. For example stamina setups cannot create range build based on instant cast abilities that could be comparable to magicka setups. Most of the stam classes don't have acces to stamina based burst heal (only warden have it) when almost every class have magicka based burst heal (nightblade don't have it). You're talking about iniversal abilities but in this game not everything has to be unmiversal. Since the release there was a split between magicka and stamina setups that magicka setups can use more class abilities and they'll have abilities there that their stamina counterparts will never have acces to and vice versa for weapon skill lines. Not everything has to be the same.
[Edited to remove Baiting]Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on January 17, 2021 3:22PM4 -
FirmamentOfStars✭✭✭✭✭UntouchableHunter wrote: »SavageChain wrote: »There is no need for magicka chars to get a similar execute as stamina toons have. PvE is already dominated by magicka thanks to ranged dps and shields, imagine they all would get a execute skill additionally to their kit in PvE.
I know this is the PvP section and I strongly disagree too, that magicka is in need of an execute ability here. Currently thanks to vate destruction staves magicka actually can fight toe to toe with stamina toons, an additional execute would make them superiour. No need for that. OP just have a strong bias towards his favourite magicka chars.
Are you right this is not a pve section.
Magic will be not op with a execute. Everybody how plays pvp knows that pvp is dominated for stamina class running Executioner.
For a pvp perspective I strongly disagree of you.
Everybody knowing PvP knows that vateshran destro brought up magicka to stamina levels in many cases. You can disagree as much as you want, but people really knowing PvP acknowledged the strength of certain magicka builds this patch.2 -
UntouchableHunter✭✭✭✭UntouchableHunter wrote: »UntouchableHunter wrote: »UntouchableHunter wrote: »
You possibly got hit with so little health remaining that anything would kill You at this point. You say that game is unbalanced because You got hit with 18k executioner but what difference does it make for how much it hit You when You had something like 1k health left. It's not impressive , it's expected for this ability to hit for so much when hitting debuffed target with 1 milimeter health points left on the health bar.
Tell that to the mag executes, oh wait
Well i've seen impales hitting in PvP for 15k+ so...
Also execute with the strongest scaling in the game is a macicka skill called radiant oppression. You wont see it hitting for 18k though because it's combined out of ticks rather then singular hit so when enemy is at 1% health 1 tick will obliterate him.
15k <18k
And was in a heavy armor like the executioner? Of course not Executioner scales 400% and starts at 50% the damage is really different.
Also radian opression and impale a are not mag skills, are NB and Templar skills, no other class can use it.
So mag class still need a Executioner
15k=18k when enemy health is at 1k. The difference is that Impale can hit for 15k between 1% and 25% of someones health when that 18k executioner will require for someone to be usually under 5%. And as I already mentioned at this point it won't even matter wheter it was 15k or 18k. 18k is just nice looking number nothing more. I've never seen definition of magicka execute saying that it has to be not tied to class skill lines.
Oh and for the record read Impulse tooltip for fire dmg additional effect. And yes I know currently Impulse is bugged but still it's an execute by design.
15k will never be 18k we have so many situations, I could use magma shell, be a vampire stage 4, have shield, using the set that's gives me 30% mitigation etc
You are trying to cover de difference between 15k 18k but in pvp 3k is a lot.
To use impale you must put the player in 25% healthy to even use it.
Did you see that the guy hitting me was NB and choose use a Executioner instead his NB execute?
I"m not saying NB execute is bad, I'm just saying we need a execute for Mag class like Executioner.
You are playing around saying other stuffs...
Did you ever use impulse as a execute ability? This is a joke for sure...
[snip] "UP TO 400%" does not equall to "always 400%". Up to means that 400% will be reached only when enemy reaches 1% health but at this point everything will kill him. Executioner starts with 1% dmg buff when enemy is around 50% health and ends with 400% buff when enemy is at 1% health. That value grows linearly inbetween health boundaries so for example at 25% health it'll be 200% dmg buff and around 12% health it'll be 300% health buff. So 25% health executioner will hit for wasy less then impale. It'll start to hit more when enemy will be around 12% health but at this point in PvP most of the time it wont matter what that value is numerically. The same executioner that hit You for 18k would hit You for something like 11k when You would have 25% health when at the same time impale could still hit You for 15k.
The reason why nb's choose to use executioner over killer's blade is simple. Executioner is more reliable damage wise because this ability is designed purely for damage without any additional effects. It's harder to use assasin's blade because if enemy have 26% or more health for example and You'll hit him You'll bnot qualify for additional damage and in PvP it's sometimes hard to aim excatly wheter or not enemy will be under 25% health in next second. Margin of mistake is smaller here. That's still fair trade because killer's blade have also healing componenmt attached to it plus it deals disease dmg so it have a chance to apply disease status effect so it's obvious it needs to be slightly weaker damage wise. Still there ar stamblades using it in PvP.
At 1k health You could use anything You want and it still wouldnt save You from anything even regular spammable ability. That supprise attack on death recap hit You for almost 8k. If enemy would use it instead of executioner You would still die. At 1k health everything that hits You for more then 1k can be considered as equall in effectiveness. And when we discuss 15k hit vs 18k hit it's highly unlikely that there will be defences that will protect Your 1k health agaisnt 15k but wont protect You against 18k. It's also worth to come back to that 8k supprise attack. That value shows that You were debuffed really hard. You had 20% dmg taken debuff from incap and despite You advertising Your 35k resists it's quite possible that nb ignored around 20k of it (maul , major fracture , sharpened weapon , master assasin passive , CP's etc). That 8k supprise attack and almost 30k dmg taken before executioner indicates that executioner on crit should hit You for that amount. It's nothing unusual it's expoected when You're being hit with execute ability when heavily debuffed and at very low health.
As for magicka setups not using Impulse well it's quite obvious nobody is using it right now. Ability itself was changed to behave like execute in Markarth so it's pretty fresh change that still don't work properly because ZoS being the pro developers they're havn't done anything to fix it yet. I cannot joke about ability that can't even be tested properly. You saying it's a joke must be a joke. Give them a time to fix something that is already in the game instead of asking for new features.
Finally it doesnt mean that magicka setups needs executioner like ability only because stamina setups have it or because You say so. There are still things magicka setups have acces to that stamina don't. For example stamina setups cannot create range build based on instant cast abilities that could be comparable to magicka setups. Most of the stam classes don't have acces to stamina based burst heal (only warden have it) when almost every class have magicka based burst heal (nightblade don't have it). You're talking about iniversal abilities but in this game not everything has to be unmiversal. Since the release there was a split between magicka and stamina setups that magicka setups can use more class abilities and they'll have abilities there that their stamina counterparts will never have acces to and vice versa for weapon skill lines. Not everything has to be the same.
You are running point to point and don't change anything that I said.
Doesn't what you sai 18k > 15k period.
You told you saw impale hitting any ware for 15k you didn't say if was a light armor or whatever, anyway this don't change 18k > 15k and you just prove my point trying to explain what everybody know that Executioner is better. I'm saying this.
About impulse, O-M-G you brought Impulse here you did it. I just showed to you that impulse really doesn't count, really doesn't matter. I'm arguing why doesn't count, I just said that Impulse is a trash execute BECAUSE YOU BROUGHT IT to the table.
So you agree with me that Impulse is useless as a execute.
I will respect your opinion that mag class don't need a execute could you respect mine that we need it. I'm a main pvp mag class I know what we are lacking in speed and burst. If you desagree it is OK but I'm I will change my mind when I see in the game that we don't need it because I play this game everyday with my main mag class and is way better to logout and get my new staminas class with vigor, Dzswing and Executioner to burst people to the hell.
And finally when I stop to see the metas stam necrose and stam Warden immortals bursting everybody with sub, bones, Dzswing and Executioner I would agree with you that mag don't need a executeEdited by ZOS_ConnorG on January 17, 2021 3:39PM3 -
UntouchableHunter✭✭✭✭SavageChain wrote: »UntouchableHunter wrote: »SavageChain wrote: »There is no need for magicka chars to get a similar execute as stamina toons have. PvE is already dominated by magicka thanks to ranged dps and shields, imagine they all would get a execute skill additionally to their kit in PvE.
I know this is the PvP section and I strongly disagree too, that magicka is in need of an execute ability here. Currently thanks to vate destruction staves magicka actually can fight toe to toe with stamina toons, an additional execute would make them superiour. No need for that. OP just have a strong bias towards his favourite magicka chars.
Are you right this is not a pve section.
Magic will be not op with a execute. Everybody how plays pvp knows that pvp is dominated for stamina class running Executioner.
For a pvp perspective I strongly disagree of you.
Everybody knowing PvP knows that vateshran destro brought up magicka to stamina levels in many cases. You can disagree as much as you want, but people really knowing PvP acknowledged the strength of certain magicka builds this patch.
Three points::
1-Everybody have access to a vateshran
2-Stamina classes are running vateshran
3-Mag class doesn't have a execute
So Vateshran doesn't change nothing in the discussion.5 -
wheem_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
PvE balance isn't nearly as important as PvP balance. That's not to say that it doesn't matter at all, but unless the gap is substantial it only really impacts one's ego. Imbalance in PvP can actually make the difference between success and failure, and lacking an execute is actually a pretty big deal for team fights.SavageChain wrote: »There is no need for magicka chars to get a similar execute as stamina toons have. PvE is already dominated by magicka thanks to ranged dps and shields, imagine they all would get a execute skill additionally to their kit in PvE.
I know this is the PvP section and I strongly disagree too, that magicka is in need of an execute ability here. Currently thanks to vate destruction staves magicka actually can fight toe to toe with stamina toons, an additional execute would make them superiour. No need for that. OP just have a strong bias towards his favourite magicka chars.
You should put together a team for the next BG tournament event, or just try to organize some 4v4v4 all-premade Battleground games, and run a team with at most 1 player who even has the option of running an execute. It absolutely makes a difference. Much more of one, in a practical sense, than one player going from 3% dps behind someone else that he's cooperating with in his trial, to now 2% ahead.2 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭UntouchableHunter wrote: »UntouchableHunter wrote: »Radiant destruction is a bad execute, in pvp, take a split second before does any damage, cannot be animation canceled and leave you vulnerable while channeling
By that logic executioner is a bad execute because it can be dodged and have 5 meters radius. And after recent changes executioner also cannot be animation cacelled plus takes a split of second before it hits (animation of the swnging weapon needs to touch enemy to register the hit) and due to the same changes very often it cannot be even fired despite being in range when it was casted due to how server vs client calculations were changed.
Also nice shift in discussion from executes existance to executes balance.
It doesn't take aay the fact the executioner can be and is used by every stam build pretty much, same cannot be said for mag, there isn't a universal execution skill.
The same logic can be used against lot of different types of abilities in PvP You know. For example there are no universal shields abilities , there is no universal healing weapon skill line etc. Yes sherlock magicka and stamina setups are different.
Also let's wait and see how big those additional damage to low health targets on Impulse will be when they'll fix it.
We have Bone Shield and Vigor Stamina based skills.
Stamina class have access to Executioner, Bone Shield and Vigor you would say that mag class have access also, but is a stamina cost ability and some scales with stamina.
So I still can see stamina class in a huge advantage in pvp for other reasons + plus this amazing skill called Executioner.
ZOS tell me why you don't give to mag class a similar ability to mag class???
Could be melee range no problem but we need it to still play pvp with our mag classes.
Bone shield scales of health not from stamina. , it only costs stamina to cast. That's quite a difference from what I was talking about. Side note when it was scaling from stamina on PTS it was scrapped because it was considered too strong.
Vigor is a single ability not whole skill line. That's quite a difference from what I was talking about.
Also those were just examples of the differences to give You an idea that differences exist and not everything is or has to be equall. Instead of understanding it You've just started to disect those examples , missing the point rntirely.
You still have a shield and a healing.
Mag still not have a execute.
Doesn't matter you try to say it is quite different or run to a point to other.
The truth is stamina have access a healing and shield and execute that any stamina can run it.
And think about this, I prefer have a skill like vigor that I don't need to use a specifically weapon to access only a skill as mag class do with rapid regen.
I would prefer a vigor for Mag and I can use sword and board and still have a healing like vigor. Or use offensive weapons and still have a vigor to use.
So you brought another point, but when we see how it works in reality we see that stamina have to much more options and possibilities to be better in pvp that mag.
By that logic magicka setups still have execute when they'll use bloodthirsdty lol
It's funny that when I said magicka setups have Impulse as execute Your counterargument was that nobody is using it but when I say stamina don't have acces to stamina shield You're saying they have bone shield (which nobody is using and that in fact isnt even stamina based shield). It's funny how You contradict Yourself just to find suiting argument.
The truth is stamina (expect stamden) dont have acces to spammable burst heals based on offensive reources and to shields. I think lot of stam setups would preffer to have that over vigor. But that is what differences about stam and mag are for. You cannot have everything You want.
Also it's funny that in terms of vigor vs rapid regen You claim that skills which are not tied to a weapon skill lines are better because they're giving You freedom of choice but in the same thread You're gloryfying skill that is tied to a weapon skill line. And it's not like every magicka class don't have execute. [snip]
[Edited to remove Baiting]Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on January 17, 2021 3:22PM4 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
PvE balance isn't nearly as important as PvP balance. That's not to say that it doesn't matter at all, but unless the gap is substantial it only really impacts one's ego. Imbalance in PvP can actually make the difference between success and failure, and lacking an execute is actually a pretty big deal for team fights.SavageChain wrote: »There is no need for magicka chars to get a similar execute as stamina toons have. PvE is already dominated by magicka thanks to ranged dps and shields, imagine they all would get a execute skill additionally to their kit in PvE.
I know this is the PvP section and I strongly disagree too, that magicka is in need of an execute ability here. Currently thanks to vate destruction staves magicka actually can fight toe to toe with stamina toons, an additional execute would make them superiour. No need for that. OP just have a strong bias towards his favourite magicka chars.
You should put together a team for the next BG tournament event, or just try to organize some 4v4v4 all-premade Battleground games, and run a team with at most 1 player who even has the option of running an execute. It absolutely makes a difference. Much more of one, in a practical sense, than one player going from 3% dps behind someone else that he's cooperating with in his trial, to now 2% ahead.
When overwhelming amount of players plays in PvE and just small fraction really dives into PvP You really want to put PvP balance over PvE balance ? And I am not presenting my opinion here but rather sad truth.4 -
UntouchableHunter✭✭✭✭UntouchableHunter wrote: »UntouchableHunter wrote: »Radiant destruction is a bad execute, in pvp, take a split second before does any damage, cannot be animation canceled and leave you vulnerable while channeling
By that logic executioner is a bad execute because it can be dodged and have 5 meters radius. And after recent changes executioner also cannot be animation cacelled plus takes a split of second before it hits (animation of the swnging weapon needs to touch enemy to register the hit) and due to the same changes very often it cannot be even fired despite being in range when it was casted due to how server vs client calculations were changed.
Also nice shift in discussion from executes existance to executes balance.
It doesn't take aay the fact the executioner can be and is used by every stam build pretty much, same cannot be said for mag, there isn't a universal execution skill.
The same logic can be used against lot of different types of abilities in PvP You know. For example there are no universal shields abilities , there is no universal healing weapon skill line etc. Yes sherlock magicka and stamina setups are different.
Also let's wait and see how big those additional damage to low health targets on Impulse will be when they'll fix it.
We have Bone Shield and Vigor Stamina based skills.
Stamina class have access to Executioner, Bone Shield and Vigor you would say that mag class have access also, but is a stamina cost ability and some scales with stamina.
So I still can see stamina class in a huge advantage in pvp for other reasons + plus this amazing skill called Executioner.
ZOS tell me why you don't give to mag class a similar ability to mag class???
Could be melee range no problem but we need it to still play pvp with our mag classes.
Bone shield scales of health not from stamina. , it only costs stamina to cast. That's quite a difference from what I was talking about. Side note when it was scaling from stamina on PTS it was scrapped because it was considered too strong.
Vigor is a single ability not whole skill line. That's quite a difference from what I was talking about.
Also those were just examples of the differences to give You an idea that differences exist and not everything is or has to be equall. Instead of understanding it You've just started to disect those examples , missing the point rntirely.
You still have a shield and a healing.
Mag still not have a execute.
Doesn't matter you try to say it is quite different or run to a point to other.
The truth is stamina have access a healing and shield and execute that any stamina can run it.
And think about this, I prefer have a skill like vigor that I don't need to use a specifically weapon to access only a skill as mag class do with rapid regen.
I would prefer a vigor for Mag and I can use sword and board and still have a healing like vigor. Or use offensive weapons and still have a vigor to use.
So you brought another point, but when we see how it works in reality we see that stamina have to much more options and possibilities to be better in pvp that mag.
By that logic magicka setups still have execute when they'll use bloodthirsdty lol
It's funny that when I said magicka setups have Impulse as execute Your counterargument was that nobody is using it but when I say stamina don't have acces to stamina shield You're saying they have bone shield (which nobody is using and that in fact isnt even stamina based shield). It's funny how You contradict Yourself just to find suiting argument.
The truth is stamina (expect stamden) dont have acces to spammable burst heals based on offensive reources and to shields. I think lot of stam setups would preffer to have that over vigor. But that is what differences about stam and mag are for. You cannot have everything You want.
Also it's funny that in terms of vigor vs rapid regen You claim that skills which are not tied to a weapon skill lines are better because they're giving You freedom of choice but in the same thread You're gloryfying skill that is tied to a weapon skill line. And it's not like every magicka class don't have execute. [snip]
I can't believe what I'm reading...
The difference is obvious:
Stam can choose if Wana run it or not
Mag can't choose...
And yes Executioner is so good that worth use a two handed weapon, and also you can use D Swing, and rally, so. You are saying stuffs that doesn't make sense IN A REAL GAME SITUATION.Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on January 17, 2021 3:39PM2 -
FirmamentOfStars✭✭✭✭✭
PvE balance isn't nearly as important as PvP balance. That's not to say that it doesn't matter at all, but unless the gap is substantial it only really impacts one's ego. Imbalance in PvP can actually make the difference between success and failure, and lacking an execute is actually a pretty big deal for team fights.SavageChain wrote: »There is no need for magicka chars to get a similar execute as stamina toons have. PvE is already dominated by magicka thanks to ranged dps and shields, imagine they all would get a execute skill additionally to their kit in PvE.
I know this is the PvP section and I strongly disagree too, that magicka is in need of an execute ability here. Currently thanks to vate destruction staves magicka actually can fight toe to toe with stamina toons, an additional execute would make them superiour. No need for that. OP just have a strong bias towards his favourite magicka chars.
You should put together a team for the next BG tournament event, or just try to organize some 4v4v4 all-premade Battleground games, and run a team with at most 1 player who even has the option of running an execute. It absolutely makes a difference. Much more of one, in a practical sense, than one player going from 3% dps behind someone else that he's cooperating with in his trial, to now 2% ahead.
If I would organize a 4 man bg team, it would probs consist of 4 magcros all running vate destro, brp destro, zaan or grothdarr and crimson or allessian and charge everything in goliath form.
There is no need for an execute for such groups and implementing one would make such groups stupidly OP and 99% of bg population would run it.1 -
UntouchableHunter✭✭✭✭Let me finish this discussion with one question.
EXECUTIONER
VS
ALL STAFF ABILITIES
Tell me would you get one staff ability turn it into stamina and give the executioner?
I give any ability just pick one and give me Executioner.
Show only one that worthy more then Executioner in a pvp game.
So you don't play with a execute ability and pick any o from the staff. 😘
End of the discussionEdited by UntouchableHunter on January 16, 2021 10:37PM3 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@UntouchableHunter I think a part of the issue is looking at it as PuG/solo vs organized group
As @SavageChain points out; that set up IN addition too a highly efficient Mag based executioner would be super lopsided.
However as a solo/PuG player, the access to an execute vs not is a big difference (when setting aside the sheer power of procs)0 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭UntouchableHunter wrote: »UntouchableHunter wrote: »UntouchableHunter wrote: »Radiant destruction is a bad execute, in pvp, take a split second before does any damage, cannot be animation canceled and leave you vulnerable while channeling
By that logic executioner is a bad execute because it can be dodged and have 5 meters radius. And after recent changes executioner also cannot be animation cacelled plus takes a split of second before it hits (animation of the swnging weapon needs to touch enemy to register the hit) and due to the same changes very often it cannot be even fired despite being in range when it was casted due to how server vs client calculations were changed.
Also nice shift in discussion from executes existance to executes balance.
It doesn't take aay the fact the executioner can be and is used by every stam build pretty much, same cannot be said for mag, there isn't a universal execution skill.
The same logic can be used against lot of different types of abilities in PvP You know. For example there are no universal shields abilities , there is no universal healing weapon skill line etc. Yes sherlock magicka and stamina setups are different.
Also let's wait and see how big those additional damage to low health targets on Impulse will be when they'll fix it.
We have Bone Shield and Vigor Stamina based skills.
Stamina class have access to Executioner, Bone Shield and Vigor you would say that mag class have access also, but is a stamina cost ability and some scales with stamina.
So I still can see stamina class in a huge advantage in pvp for other reasons + plus this amazing skill called Executioner.
ZOS tell me why you don't give to mag class a similar ability to mag class???
Could be melee range no problem but we need it to still play pvp with our mag classes.
Bone shield scales of health not from stamina. , it only costs stamina to cast. That's quite a difference from what I was talking about. Side note when it was scaling from stamina on PTS it was scrapped because it was considered too strong.
Vigor is a single ability not whole skill line. That's quite a difference from what I was talking about.
Also those were just examples of the differences to give You an idea that differences exist and not everything is or has to be equall. Instead of understanding it You've just started to disect those examples , missing the point rntirely.
You still have a shield and a healing.
Mag still not have a execute.
Doesn't matter you try to say it is quite different or run to a point to other.
The truth is stamina have access a healing and shield and execute that any stamina can run it.
And think about this, I prefer have a skill like vigor that I don't need to use a specifically weapon to access only a skill as mag class do with rapid regen.
I would prefer a vigor for Mag and I can use sword and board and still have a healing like vigor. Or use offensive weapons and still have a vigor to use.
So you brought another point, but when we see how it works in reality we see that stamina have to much more options and possibilities to be better in pvp that mag.
By that logic magicka setups still have execute when they'll use bloodthirsdty lol
It's funny that when I said magicka setups have Impulse as execute Your counterargument was that nobody is using it but when I say stamina don't have acces to stamina shield You're saying they have bone shield (which nobody is using and that in fact isnt even stamina based shield). It's funny how You contradict Yourself just to find suiting argument.
The truth is stamina (expect stamden) dont have acces to spammable burst heals based on offensive reources and to shields. I think lot of stam setups would preffer to have that over vigor. But that is what differences about stam and mag are for. You cannot have everything You want.
Also it's funny that in terms of vigor vs rapid regen You claim that skills which are not tied to a weapon skill lines are better because they're giving You freedom of choice but in the same thread You're gloryfying skill that is tied to a weapon skill line. And it's not like every magicka class don't have execute. [snip]
I can't believe what I'm reading...
The difference is obvious:
Stam can choose if Wana run it or not
Mag can't choose...
And yes Executioner is so good that worth use a two handed weapon, and also you can use D Swing, and rally, so. You are saying stuffs that doesn't make sense IN A REAL GAME SITUATION.
Mag can also choose if wanna run rapid regen or not. The difference is they usually have alternatives if they don't.
IN A REAL GAME SITUATION three mag classes have acces to an execute without drawbacks of tying themselfs to a weapon 4th class have semi execute passive and most of mag setups doesn't even need execute due to overwhelming strenght of proc sets with 2 being procced exclusively by destro staff abilities with one of them having execute component that for now is bugged but we'll see what happen when it no longer will be. You want to know which destro staff ability is right now better then executioner ? Elemental drain when combined with vateshran destro. It's so good that even lot of stamina players is running it atm sometimes choosing to drop 2h for it. Right now IN A REAL GAME SITUATION magicka setups that don't have acces to an execute are far from needing it. Fact that You got demolished by some stamblade who finished Your 3% health bar with executioner won't change thatEdited by ZOS_ConnorG on January 17, 2021 3:40PM3 -
UntouchableHunter✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »@UntouchableHunter I think a part of the issue is looking at it as PuG/solo vs organized group
As @SavageChain points out; that set up IN addition too a highly efficient Mag based executioner would be super lopsided.
However as a solo/PuG player, the access to an execute vs not is a big difference (when setting aside the sheer power of procs)
I understand the group discussion and your point.
For solo no doubt stamina will be way better.
But I'm not sure if mag is too much better for group or even better.
Stamina Warden and stamina templar can make a good synergy for Stam groups. And with the proc sets we saw venomous smite and sheer venom bean the most in bgs. But this is something that we could discuss.Edited by UntouchableHunter on January 16, 2021 10:49PM2 -
UntouchableHunter✭✭✭✭UntouchableHunter wrote: »UntouchableHunter wrote: »UntouchableHunter wrote: »Radiant destruction is a bad execute, in pvp, take a split second before does any damage, cannot be animation canceled and leave you vulnerable while channeling
By that logic executioner is a bad execute because it can be dodged and have 5 meters radius. And after recent changes executioner also cannot be animation cacelled plus takes a split of second before it hits (animation of the swnging weapon needs to touch enemy to register the hit) and due to the same changes very often it cannot be even fired despite being in range when it was casted due to how server vs client calculations were changed.
Also nice shift in discussion from executes existance to executes balance.
It doesn't take aay the fact the executioner can be and is used by every stam build pretty much, same cannot be said for mag, there isn't a universal execution skill.
The same logic can be used against lot of different types of abilities in PvP You know. For example there are no universal shields abilities , there is no universal healing weapon skill line etc. Yes sherlock magicka and stamina setups are different.
Also let's wait and see how big those additional damage to low health targets on Impulse will be when they'll fix it.
We have Bone Shield and Vigor Stamina based skills.
Stamina class have access to Executioner, Bone Shield and Vigor you would say that mag class have access also, but is a stamina cost ability and some scales with stamina.
So I still can see stamina class in a huge advantage in pvp for other reasons + plus this amazing skill called Executioner.
ZOS tell me why you don't give to mag class a similar ability to mag class???
Could be melee range no problem but we need it to still play pvp with our mag classes.
Bone shield scales of health not from stamina. , it only costs stamina to cast. That's quite a difference from what I was talking about. Side note when it was scaling from stamina on PTS it was scrapped because it was considered too strong.
Vigor is a single ability not whole skill line. That's quite a difference from what I was talking about.
Also those were just examples of the differences to give You an idea that differences exist and not everything is or has to be equall. Instead of understanding it You've just started to disect those examples , missing the point rntirely.
You still have a shield and a healing.
Mag still not have a execute.
Doesn't matter you try to say it is quite different or run to a point to other.
The truth is stamina have access a healing and shield and execute that any stamina can run it.
And think about this, I prefer have a skill like vigor that I don't need to use a specifically weapon to access only a skill as mag class do with rapid regen.
I would prefer a vigor for Mag and I can use sword and board and still have a healing like vigor. Or use offensive weapons and still have a vigor to use.
So you brought another point, but when we see how it works in reality we see that stamina have to much more options and possibilities to be better in pvp that mag.
By that logic magicka setups still have execute when they'll use bloodthirsdty lol
It's funny that when I said magicka setups have Impulse as execute Your counterargument was that nobody is using it but when I say stamina don't have acces to stamina shield You're saying they have bone shield (which nobody is using and that in fact isnt even stamina based shield). It's funny how You contradict Yourself just to find suiting argument.
The truth is stamina (expect stamden) dont have acces to spammable burst heals based on offensive reources and to shields. I think lot of stam setups would preffer to have that over vigor. But that is what differences about stam and mag are for. You cannot have everything You want.
Also it's funny that in terms of vigor vs rapid regen You claim that skills which are not tied to a weapon skill lines are better because they're giving You freedom of choice but in the same thread You're gloryfying skill that is tied to a weapon skill line. And it's not like every magicka class don't have execute. [snip]
I can't believe what I'm reading...
The difference is obvious:
Stam can choose if Wana run it or not
Mag can't choose...
And yes Executioner is so good that worth use a two handed weapon, and also you can use D Swing, and rally, so. You are saying stuffs that doesn't make sense IN A REAL GAME SITUATION.
Mag can also choose if wanna run rapid regen or not. The difference is they usually have alternatives if they don't.
IN A REAL GAME SITUATION three mag classes have acces to an execute without drawbacks of tying themselfs to a weapon 4th class have semi execute passive and most of mag setups doesn't even need execute due to overwhelming strenght of proc sets with 2 being procced exclusively by destro staff abilities with one of them having execute component that for now is bugged but we'll see what happen when it no longer will be. You want to know which destro staff ability is right now better then executioner ? Elemental drain when combined with vateshran destro. It's so good that even lot of stamina players is running it atm sometimes choosing to drop 2h for it. Right now IN A REAL GAME SITUATION magicka setups that don't have acces to an execute are far from needing it. Fact that You got demolished by some stamblade who finished Your 3% health bar with executioner won't change that
Omg.. Unbelievable.
Just pick one skill and drop executioner as I posted above.Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on January 17, 2021 3:40PM2 -
UntouchableHunter✭✭✭✭You said about elemental is so good.. Are you kidding. You had to pair with Vateshran to make your point. So you are saying about the proc staff because no one stamina class would run it without Vateshran. Different from executioner do not need Vateshran to be viable as you say.
[snip]
[Edited to remove Baiting]Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on January 17, 2021 3:38PM3 -
UntouchableHunter✭✭✭✭SavageChain wrote: »
PvE balance isn't nearly as important as PvP balance. That's not to say that it doesn't matter at all, but unless the gap is substantial it only really impacts one's ego. Imbalance in PvP can actually make the difference between success and failure, and lacking an execute is actually a pretty big deal for team fights.SavageChain wrote: »There is no need for magicka chars to get a similar execute as stamina toons have. PvE is already dominated by magicka thanks to ranged dps and shields, imagine they all would get a execute skill additionally to their kit in PvE.
I know this is the PvP section and I strongly disagree too, that magicka is in need of an execute ability here. Currently thanks to vate destruction staves magicka actually can fight toe to toe with stamina toons, an additional execute would make them superiour. No need for that. OP just have a strong bias towards his favourite magicka chars.
You should put together a team for the next BG tournament event, or just try to organize some 4v4v4 all-premade Battleground games, and run a team with at most 1 player who even has the option of running an execute. It absolutely makes a difference. Much more of one, in a practical sense, than one player going from 3% dps behind someone else that he's cooperating with in his trial, to now 2% ahead.
If I would organize a 4 man bg team, it would probs consist of 4 magcros all running vate destro, brp destro, zaan or grothdarr and crimson or allessian and charge everything in goliath form.
There is no need for an execute for such groups and implementing one would make such groups stupidly OP and 99% of bg population would run it.
You are talking about a specifically mag class running tons of proc sets.
Can you see that mag class are viable only with proc sets?
And every body Wana nerf procs sets.
After nerf proc sets you will ask for a execute to mag classes?Edited by UntouchableHunter on January 16, 2021 11:02PM4 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭UntouchableHunter wrote: »UntouchableHunter wrote: »UntouchableHunter wrote: »UntouchableHunter wrote: »Radiant destruction is a bad execute, in pvp, take a split second before does any damage, cannot be animation canceled and leave you vulnerable while channeling
By that logic executioner is a bad execute because it can be dodged and have 5 meters radius. And after recent changes executioner also cannot be animation cacelled plus takes a split of second before it hits (animation of the swnging weapon needs to touch enemy to register the hit) and due to the same changes very often it cannot be even fired despite being in range when it was casted due to how server vs client calculations were changed.
Also nice shift in discussion from executes existance to executes balance.
It doesn't take aay the fact the executioner can be and is used by every stam build pretty much, same cannot be said for mag, there isn't a universal execution skill.
The same logic can be used against lot of different types of abilities in PvP You know. For example there are no universal shields abilities , there is no universal healing weapon skill line etc. Yes sherlock magicka and stamina setups are different.
Also let's wait and see how big those additional damage to low health targets on Impulse will be when they'll fix it.
We have Bone Shield and Vigor Stamina based skills.
Stamina class have access to Executioner, Bone Shield and Vigor you would say that mag class have access also, but is a stamina cost ability and some scales with stamina.
So I still can see stamina class in a huge advantage in pvp for other reasons + plus this amazing skill called Executioner.
ZOS tell me why you don't give to mag class a similar ability to mag class???
Could be melee range no problem but we need it to still play pvp with our mag classes.
Bone shield scales of health not from stamina. , it only costs stamina to cast. That's quite a difference from what I was talking about. Side note when it was scaling from stamina on PTS it was scrapped because it was considered too strong.
Vigor is a single ability not whole skill line. That's quite a difference from what I was talking about.
Also those were just examples of the differences to give You an idea that differences exist and not everything is or has to be equall. Instead of understanding it You've just started to disect those examples , missing the point rntirely.
You still have a shield and a healing.
Mag still not have a execute.
Doesn't matter you try to say it is quite different or run to a point to other.
The truth is stamina have access a healing and shield and execute that any stamina can run it.
And think about this, I prefer have a skill like vigor that I don't need to use a specifically weapon to access only a skill as mag class do with rapid regen.
I would prefer a vigor for Mag and I can use sword and board and still have a healing like vigor. Or use offensive weapons and still have a vigor to use.
So you brought another point, but when we see how it works in reality we see that stamina have to much more options and possibilities to be better in pvp that mag.
By that logic magicka setups still have execute when they'll use bloodthirsdty lol
It's funny that when I said magicka setups have Impulse as execute Your counterargument was that nobody is using it but when I say stamina don't have acces to stamina shield You're saying they have bone shield (which nobody is using and that in fact isnt even stamina based shield). It's funny how You contradict Yourself just to find suiting argument.
The truth is stamina (expect stamden) dont have acces to spammable burst heals based on offensive reources and to shields. I think lot of stam setups would preffer to have that over vigor. But that is what differences about stam and mag are for. You cannot have everything You want.
Also it's funny that in terms of vigor vs rapid regen You claim that skills which are not tied to a weapon skill lines are better because they're giving You freedom of choice but in the same thread You're gloryfying skill that is tied to a weapon skill line. And it's not like every magicka class don't have execute. [snip]
I can't believe what I'm reading...
The difference is obvious:
Stam can choose if Wana run it or not
Mag can't choose...
And yes Executioner is so good that worth use a two handed weapon, and also you can use D Swing, and rally, so. You are saying stuffs that doesn't make sense IN A REAL GAME SITUATION.
Mag can also choose if wanna run rapid regen or not. The difference is they usually have alternatives if they don't.
IN A REAL GAME SITUATION three mag classes have acces to an execute without drawbacks of tying themselfs to a weapon 4th class have semi execute passive and most of mag setups doesn't even need execute due to overwhelming strenght of proc sets with 2 being procced exclusively by destro staff abilities with one of them having execute component that for now is bugged but we'll see what happen when it no longer will be. You want to know which destro staff ability is right now better then executioner ? Elemental drain when combined with vateshran destro. It's so good that even lot of stamina players is running it atm sometimes choosing to drop 2h for it. Right now IN A REAL GAME SITUATION magicka setups that don't have acces to an execute are far from needing it. Fact that You got demolished by some stamblade who finished Your 3% health bar with executioner won't change that
Omg.. Unbelievable.
Just pick one skill and drop executioner as I posted above.
As I already said many stam players already did that. They picked vateshran destro with elemental drain.
Finally going back to You claiming that stamina setups have acces to shield throguh bone shield. If You consider bone shield to be viable stamina shield then by that logic we can say that every magicka class except dk have acces to an execute and dk don't need that because he have higher pressure potential. /sEdited by ZOS_ConnorG on January 17, 2021 3:42PM2 -
UntouchableHunter✭✭✭✭UntouchableHunter wrote: »UntouchableHunter wrote: »UntouchableHunter wrote: »UntouchableHunter wrote: »Radiant destruction is a bad execute, in pvp, take a split second before does any damage, cannot be animation canceled and leave you vulnerable while channeling
By that logic executioner is a bad execute because it can be dodged and have 5 meters radius. And after recent changes executioner also cannot be animation cacelled plus takes a split of second before it hits (animation of the swnging weapon needs to touch enemy to register the hit) and due to the same changes very often it cannot be even fired despite being in range when it was casted due to how server vs client calculations were changed.
Also nice shift in discussion from executes existance to executes balance.
It doesn't take aay the fact the executioner can be and is used by every stam build pretty much, same cannot be said for mag, there isn't a universal execution skill.
The same logic can be used against lot of different types of abilities in PvP You know. For example there are no universal shields abilities , there is no universal healing weapon skill line etc. Yes sherlock magicka and stamina setups are different.
Also let's wait and see how big those additional damage to low health targets on Impulse will be when they'll fix it.
We have Bone Shield and Vigor Stamina based skills.
Stamina class have access to Executioner, Bone Shield and Vigor you would say that mag class have access also, but is a stamina cost ability and some scales with stamina.
So I still can see stamina class in a huge advantage in pvp for other reasons + plus this amazing skill called Executioner.
ZOS tell me why you don't give to mag class a similar ability to mag class???
Could be melee range no problem but we need it to still play pvp with our mag classes.
Bone shield scales of health not from stamina. , it only costs stamina to cast. That's quite a difference from what I was talking about. Side note when it was scaling from stamina on PTS it was scrapped because it was considered too strong.
Vigor is a single ability not whole skill line. That's quite a difference from what I was talking about.
Also those were just examples of the differences to give You an idea that differences exist and not everything is or has to be equall. Instead of understanding it You've just started to disect those examples , missing the point rntirely.
You still have a shield and a healing.
Mag still not have a execute.
Doesn't matter you try to say it is quite different or run to a point to other.
The truth is stamina have access a healing and shield and execute that any stamina can run it.
And think about this, I prefer have a skill like vigor that I don't need to use a specifically weapon to access only a skill as mag class do with rapid regen.
I would prefer a vigor for Mag and I can use sword and board and still have a healing like vigor. Or use offensive weapons and still have a vigor to use.
So you brought another point, but when we see how it works in reality we see that stamina have to much more options and possibilities to be better in pvp that mag.
By that logic magicka setups still have execute when they'll use bloodthirsdty lol
It's funny that when I said magicka setups have Impulse as execute Your counterargument was that nobody is using it but when I say stamina don't have acces to stamina shield You're saying they have bone shield (which nobody is using and that in fact isnt even stamina based shield). It's funny how You contradict Yourself just to find suiting argument.
The truth is stamina (expect stamden) dont have acces to spammable burst heals based on offensive reources and to shields. I think lot of stam setups would preffer to have that over vigor. But that is what differences about stam and mag are for. You cannot have everything You want.
Also it's funny that in terms of vigor vs rapid regen You claim that skills which are not tied to a weapon skill lines are better because they're giving You freedom of choice but in the same thread You're gloryfying skill that is tied to a weapon skill line. And it's not like every magicka class don't have execute. [snip]
I can't believe what I'm reading...
The difference is obvious:
Stam can choose if Wana run it or not
Mag can't choose...
And yes Executioner is so good that worth use a two handed weapon, and also you can use D Swing, and rally, so. You are saying stuffs that doesn't make sense IN A REAL GAME SITUATION.
Mag can also choose if wanna run rapid regen or not. The difference is they usually have alternatives if they don't.
IN A REAL GAME SITUATION three mag classes have acces to an execute without drawbacks of tying themselfs to a weapon 4th class have semi execute passive and most of mag setups doesn't even need execute due to overwhelming strenght of proc sets with 2 being procced exclusively by destro staff abilities with one of them having execute component that for now is bugged but we'll see what happen when it no longer will be. You want to know which destro staff ability is right now better then executioner ? Elemental drain when combined with vateshran destro. It's so good that even lot of stamina players is running it atm sometimes choosing to drop 2h for it. Right now IN A REAL GAME SITUATION magicka setups that don't have acces to an execute are far from needing it. Fact that You got demolished by some stamblade who finished Your 3% health bar with executioner won't change that
Omg.. Unbelievable.
Just pick one skill and drop executioner as I posted above.
As I already said many stam players already did that. They picked vateshran destro with elemental drain.
Finally going back to You claiming that stamina setups have acces to shield throguh bone shield. If You consider bone shield to be viable stamina shield then by that logic we can say that every magicka class except dk have acces to an execute and dk don't need that because he have higher pressure potential. /s
Seriously????
Vateshran is not a skill.
I already told it.
Can you pick one skill?
No you can't, you need to pair with Vateshran and you still can use executioner in the front bar.
Vateshran just make EVERYBODY stronger and stamina still using executioner, pressure a lot of pressure with execute, but only for stamina, mag classes can't.
Everything you say just make my point stronger
So... I'm done with you, you are not talking seriously...Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on January 17, 2021 3:42PM3 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Ele drain is a skill though. And some people are even using it on stam builds without vateshran destro simply for the debuff. Have You seen similar situation with any unique stamina weapon or stamina weapon skill line ability ?UntouchableHunter wrote: »UntouchableHunter wrote: »UntouchableHunter wrote: »UntouchableHunter wrote: »UntouchableHunter wrote: »Radiant destruction is a bad execute, in pvp, take a split second before does any damage, cannot be animation canceled and leave you vulnerable while channeling
By that logic executioner is a bad execute because it can be dodged and have 5 meters radius. And after recent changes executioner also cannot be animation cacelled plus takes a split of second before it hits (animation of the swnging weapon needs to touch enemy to register the hit) and due to the same changes very often it cannot be even fired despite being in range when it was casted due to how server vs client calculations were changed.
Also nice shift in discussion from executes existance to executes balance.
It doesn't take aay the fact the executioner can be and is used by every stam build pretty much, same cannot be said for mag, there isn't a universal execution skill.
The same logic can be used against lot of different types of abilities in PvP You know. For example there are no universal shields abilities , there is no universal healing weapon skill line etc. Yes sherlock magicka and stamina setups are different.
Also let's wait and see how big those additional damage to low health targets on Impulse will be when they'll fix it.
We have Bone Shield and Vigor Stamina based skills.
Stamina class have access to Executioner, Bone Shield and Vigor you would say that mag class have access also, but is a stamina cost ability and some scales with stamina.
So I still can see stamina class in a huge advantage in pvp for other reasons + plus this amazing skill called Executioner.
ZOS tell me why you don't give to mag class a similar ability to mag class???
Could be melee range no problem but we need it to still play pvp with our mag classes.
Bone shield scales of health not from stamina. , it only costs stamina to cast. That's quite a difference from what I was talking about. Side note when it was scaling from stamina on PTS it was scrapped because it was considered too strong.
Vigor is a single ability not whole skill line. That's quite a difference from what I was talking about.
Also those were just examples of the differences to give You an idea that differences exist and not everything is or has to be equall. Instead of understanding it You've just started to disect those examples , missing the point rntirely.
You still have a shield and a healing.
Mag still not have a execute.
Doesn't matter you try to say it is quite different or run to a point to other.
The truth is stamina have access a healing and shield and execute that any stamina can run it.
And think about this, I prefer have a skill like vigor that I don't need to use a specifically weapon to access only a skill as mag class do with rapid regen.
I would prefer a vigor for Mag and I can use sword and board and still have a healing like vigor. Or use offensive weapons and still have a vigor to use.
So you brought another point, but when we see how it works in reality we see that stamina have to much more options and possibilities to be better in pvp that mag.
By that logic magicka setups still have execute when they'll use bloodthirsdty lol
It's funny that when I said magicka setups have Impulse as execute Your counterargument was that nobody is using it but when I say stamina don't have acces to stamina shield You're saying they have bone shield (which nobody is using and that in fact isnt even stamina based shield). It's funny how You contradict Yourself just to find suiting argument.
The truth is stamina (expect stamden) dont have acces to spammable burst heals based on offensive reources and to shields. I think lot of stam setups would preffer to have that over vigor. But that is what differences about stam and mag are for. You cannot have everything You want.
Also it's funny that in terms of vigor vs rapid regen You claim that skills which are not tied to a weapon skill lines are better because they're giving You freedom of choice but in the same thread You're gloryfying skill that is tied to a weapon skill line. And it's not like every magicka class don't have execute. [snip]
I can't believe what I'm reading...
The difference is obvious:
Stam can choose if Wana run it or not
Mag can't choose...
And yes Executioner is so good that worth use a two handed weapon, and also you can use D Swing, and rally, so. You are saying stuffs that doesn't make sense IN A REAL GAME SITUATION.
Mag can also choose if wanna run rapid regen or not. The difference is they usually have alternatives if they don't.
IN A REAL GAME SITUATION three mag classes have acces to an execute without drawbacks of tying themselfs to a weapon 4th class have semi execute passive and most of mag setups doesn't even need execute due to overwhelming strenght of proc sets with 2 being procced exclusively by destro staff abilities with one of them having execute component that for now is bugged but we'll see what happen when it no longer will be. You want to know which destro staff ability is right now better then executioner ? Elemental drain when combined with vateshran destro. It's so good that even lot of stamina players is running it atm sometimes choosing to drop 2h for it. Right now IN A REAL GAME SITUATION magicka setups that don't have acces to an execute are far from needing it. Fact that You got demolished by some stamblade who finished Your 3% health bar with executioner won't change that
Omg.. Unbelievable.
Just pick one skill and drop executioner as I posted above.
As I already said many stam players already did that. They picked vateshran destro with elemental drain.
Finally going back to You claiming that stamina setups have acces to shield throguh bone shield. If You consider bone shield to be viable stamina shield then by that logic we can say that every magicka class except dk have acces to an execute and dk don't need that because he have higher pressure potential. /s
Seriously????
Vateshran is not a skill.
I already told it.
Can you pick one skill?
No you can't, you need to pair with Vateshran and you still can use executioner in the front bar.
Vateshran just make EVERYBODY stronger and stamina still using executioner, pressure a lot of pressure with execute, but only for stamina, mag classes can't.
Everything you say just make my point stronger
So... I'm done with you, you are not talking seriously...
Your challenge to pick one ability is also pretty silly. It's obvious destro staff won't be as strong as 2h because magicka setups strenght was always bound more to class skills then stamina setups. This is why there are 4 stamina based weapons and 2 magicka based one and from 180 non ultimate class abilities morphs only around 30 is stamina based or stamina centric. Thats is 2:1 win for stamina in weapon skill lines but 5:1 magicka win in class skill lines. It's obvious stamina weapons must be stronger. It was like that since game release. Fair deal would be to ask someone to name 1 magicka based class ability that executioner could be sacrificed for and when that deal is considered well there is few abilities that come to mind.
Yes Vateshran makes everyone stronger but have You seen stamina unique weapon that does that ? That only shows how strong vateshran destro is compared to other weapons and mag builds sacrifice way less then stam to wear it.
Well You may think whatever You want but it's hard to make Your point stronger when You didn't make any point. Your main argumentation can be summarised that because You got hit with 18k executioner everyone needs it (although I don't really see mag setups other then maybe dk running with 5 meters range execute). In fact that executioner wasn't even responsible for Your death. Those 4x7k+ spammables that You didn't blocked or dodged were. You would die anyway with or without executioner being used so Your main argument holds no value.
[snip]
[Edited to remove Baiting]Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on January 17, 2021 3:44PM1 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭UntouchableHunter wrote: »You said about elemental is so good.. Are you kidding. You had to pair with Vateshran to make your point. So you are saying about the proc staff because no one stamina class would run it without Vateshran. Different from executioner do not need Vateshran to be viable as you say.
[snip]
Belive me if magicka classes would get executioner as there is just switched to magicka scaling not many of them would choose to run with 5 meters range ability that can be easily avoided. You would have to add something more to it to make it viable.
Also as I said there are stam builds running with ele drain without vateshran destro just for resistance debuffs applied from range. Some of then don't use executioner. There is not many of them left though because vate destro is simply too strong to ignore it when You are already using destro staff.Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on January 17, 2021 3:45PM2 -
UntouchableHunter✭✭✭✭
Ele drain is a skill though. And some people are even using it on stam builds without vateshran destro simply for the debuff. Have You seen similar situation with any unique stamina weapon or stamina weapon skill line ability ?UntouchableHunter wrote: »UntouchableHunter wrote: »UntouchableHunter wrote: »UntouchableHunter wrote: »UntouchableHunter wrote: »Radiant destruction is a bad execute, in pvp, take a split second before does any damage, cannot be animation canceled and leave you vulnerable while channeling
By that logic executioner is a bad execute because it can be dodged and have 5 meters radius. And after recent changes executioner also cannot be animation cacelled plus takes a split of second before it hits (animation of the swnging weapon needs to touch enemy to register the hit) and due to the same changes very often it cannot be even fired despite being in range when it was casted due to how server vs client calculations were changed.
Also nice shift in discussion from executes existance to executes balance.
It doesn't take aay the fact the executioner can be and is used by every stam build pretty much, same cannot be said for mag, there isn't a universal execution skill.
The same logic can be used against lot of different types of abilities in PvP You know. For example there are no universal shields abilities , there is no universal healing weapon skill line etc. Yes sherlock magicka and stamina setups are different.
Also let's wait and see how big those additional damage to low health targets on Impulse will be when they'll fix it.
We have Bone Shield and Vigor Stamina based skills.
Stamina class have access to Executioner, Bone Shield and Vigor you would say that mag class have access also, but is a stamina cost ability and some scales with stamina.
So I still can see stamina class in a huge advantage in pvp for other reasons + plus this amazing skill called Executioner.
ZOS tell me why you don't give to mag class a similar ability to mag class???
Could be melee range no problem but we need it to still play pvp with our mag classes.
Bone shield scales of health not from stamina. , it only costs stamina to cast. That's quite a difference from what I was talking about. Side note when it was scaling from stamina on PTS it was scrapped because it was considered too strong.
Vigor is a single ability not whole skill line. That's quite a difference from what I was talking about.
Also those were just examples of the differences to give You an idea that differences exist and not everything is or has to be equall. Instead of understanding it You've just started to disect those examples , missing the point rntirely.
You still have a shield and a healing.
Mag still not have a execute.
Doesn't matter you try to say it is quite different or run to a point to other.
The truth is stamina have access a healing and shield and execute that any stamina can run it.
And think about this, I prefer have a skill like vigor that I don't need to use a specifically weapon to access only a skill as mag class do with rapid regen.
I would prefer a vigor for Mag and I can use sword and board and still have a healing like vigor. Or use offensive weapons and still have a vigor to use.
So you brought another point, but when we see how it works in reality we see that stamina have to much more options and possibilities to be better in pvp that mag.
By that logic magicka setups still have execute when they'll use bloodthirsdty lol
It's funny that when I said magicka setups have Impulse as execute Your counterargument was that nobody is using it but when I say stamina don't have acces to stamina shield You're saying they have bone shield (which nobody is using and that in fact isnt even stamina based shield). It's funny how You contradict Yourself just to find suiting argument.
The truth is stamina (expect stamden) dont have acces to spammable burst heals based on offensive reources and to shields. I think lot of stam setups would preffer to have that over vigor. But that is what differences about stam and mag are for. You cannot have everything You want.
Also it's funny that in terms of vigor vs rapid regen You claim that skills which are not tied to a weapon skill lines are better because they're giving You freedom of choice but in the same thread You're gloryfying skill that is tied to a weapon skill line. And it's not like every magicka class don't have execute. [snip]
I can't believe what I'm reading...
The difference is obvious:
Stam can choose if Wana run it or not
Mag can't choose...
And yes Executioner is so good that worth use a two handed weapon, and also you can use D Swing, and rally, so. You are saying stuffs that doesn't make sense IN A REAL GAME SITUATION.
Mag can also choose if wanna run rapid regen or not. The difference is they usually have alternatives if they don't.
IN A REAL GAME SITUATION three mag classes have acces to an execute without drawbacks of tying themselfs to a weapon 4th class have semi execute passive and most of mag setups doesn't even need execute due to overwhelming strenght of proc sets with 2 being procced exclusively by destro staff abilities with one of them having execute component that for now is bugged but we'll see what happen when it no longer will be. You want to know which destro staff ability is right now better then executioner ? Elemental drain when combined with vateshran destro. It's so good that even lot of stamina players is running it atm sometimes choosing to drop 2h for it. Right now IN A REAL GAME SITUATION magicka setups that don't have acces to an execute are far from needing it. Fact that You got demolished by some stamblade who finished Your 3% health bar with executioner won't change that
Omg.. Unbelievable.
Just pick one skill and drop executioner as I posted above.
As I already said many stam players already did that. They picked vateshran destro with elemental drain.
Finally going back to You claiming that stamina setups have acces to shield throguh bone shield. If You consider bone shield to be viable stamina shield then by that logic we can say that every magicka class except dk have acces to an execute and dk don't need that because he have higher pressure potential. /s
Seriously????
Vateshran is not a skill.
I already told it.
Can you pick one skill?
No you can't, you need to pair with Vateshran and you still can use executioner in the front bar.
Vateshran just make EVERYBODY stronger and stamina still using executioner, pressure a lot of pressure with execute, but only for stamina, mag classes can't.
Everything you say just make my point stronger
So... I'm done with you, you are not talking seriously...
Your challenge to pick one ability is also pretty silly. It's obvious destro staff won't be as strong as 2h because magicka setups strenght was always bound more to class skills then stamina setups. This is why there are 4 stamina based weapons and 2 magicka based one and from 180 non ultimate class abilities morphs only around 30 is stamina based or stamina centric. Thats is 2:1 win for stamina in weapon skill lines but 5:1 magicka win in class skill lines. It's obvious stamina weapons must be stronger. It was like that since game release. Fair deal would be to ask someone to name 1 magicka based class ability that executioner could be sacrificed for and when that deal is considered well there is few abilities that come to mind.
Yes Vateshran makes everyone stronger but have You seen stamina unique weapon that does that ? That only shows how strong vateshran destro is compared to other weapons and mag builds sacrifice way less then stam to wear it.
Well You may think whatever You want but it's hard to make Your point stronger when You didn't make any point. Your main argumentation can be summarised that because You got hit with 18k executioner everyone needs it (although I don't really see mag setups other then maybe dk running with 5 meters range execute). In fact that executioner wasn't even responsible for Your death. Those 4x7k+ spammables that You didn't blocked or dodged were. You would die anyway with or without executioner being used so Your main argument holds no value.
[snip]
You can't see what you are doing you are making my point even stronger.
You said Stam weapons are stronger then magicka.
You said stamina classes are running Vateshran
And still can use execute.
Stam class a have the option and mag class don't.
[snip]
And about some stamina using ele drain without Vateshran... Are they using Ele Drain without executioner?
No of course not. So I ask you to pick one and drop executioner. Are you saying me that you can drop executioner for ele drain without Vateshran????
[snip]
[Edited to remove Baiting]Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on January 17, 2021 3:46PM2 -
wheem_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Have you ever participated in any of the "super sweaty" 4v4v4 organized BG matches? Because I don't think your team would quite work out the way you think it would.SavageChain wrote: »
PvE balance isn't nearly as important as PvP balance. That's not to say that it doesn't matter at all, but unless the gap is substantial it only really impacts one's ego. Imbalance in PvP can actually make the difference between success and failure, and lacking an execute is actually a pretty big deal for team fights.SavageChain wrote: »There is no need for magicka chars to get a similar execute as stamina toons have. PvE is already dominated by magicka thanks to ranged dps and shields, imagine they all would get a execute skill additionally to their kit in PvE.
I know this is the PvP section and I strongly disagree too, that magicka is in need of an execute ability here. Currently thanks to vate destruction staves magicka actually can fight toe to toe with stamina toons, an additional execute would make them superiour. No need for that. OP just have a strong bias towards his favourite magicka chars.
You should put together a team for the next BG tournament event, or just try to organize some 4v4v4 all-premade Battleground games, and run a team with at most 1 player who even has the option of running an execute. It absolutely makes a difference. Much more of one, in a practical sense, than one player going from 3% dps behind someone else that he's cooperating with in his trial, to now 2% ahead.
If I would organize a 4 man bg team, it would probs consist of 4 magcros all running vate destro, brp destro, zaan or grothdarr and crimson or allessian and charge everything in goliath form.
There is no need for an execute for such groups and implementing one would make such groups stupidly OP and 99% of bg population would run it.
In the current tournament, which turned out quite a bit larger than I think anyone really expected, the rules state that no more than 2 of a particular class may be on the same team in any given match. I'm fairly certain that no team had more than 1 Magicka Necromancer at a time, and virtually no one used the Vateshran Destruction Staff. My setup was thrown together last minute'ish, and I was running it myself, but it's honestly quite difficult to utilize effectively when there's an enormous amount of Bombard spam, Negates, everyone trying to move out of sandwiches, using terrain to their advantage, etc...
I'm sure your team would dominate a lot of random solo queued players, but against good competition with proper movement and coordination? Doubtful. That said, you're welcome to try and put together any team you want and give it a go the next time there's an event (as long as you're on PC-NA and agree to whatever the rules are, or your server/platform hosts a similar thing).
The team I was on in the tournament only had a single player with access to executes, and it gets tough when there are other teams that have several (especially if theirs go through dodge rolls and/or can be pre-applied). You can do 95% of the damage to enemy player(s), but if a Spin-to-Win or Mage's Wrath gets the last hit while all your abilities are being dodged, the third team will get the points.1 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭UntouchableHunter wrote: »
Ele drain is a skill though. And some people are even using it on stam builds without vateshran destro simply for the debuff. Have You seen similar situation with any unique stamina weapon or stamina weapon skill line ability ?UntouchableHunter wrote: »UntouchableHunter wrote: »UntouchableHunter wrote: »UntouchableHunter wrote: »UntouchableHunter wrote: »Radiant destruction is a bad execute, in pvp, take a split second before does any damage, cannot be animation canceled and leave you vulnerable while channeling
By that logic executioner is a bad execute because it can be dodged and have 5 meters radius. And after recent changes executioner also cannot be animation cacelled plus takes a split of second before it hits (animation of the swnging weapon needs to touch enemy to register the hit) and due to the same changes very often it cannot be even fired despite being in range when it was casted due to how server vs client calculations were changed.
Also nice shift in discussion from executes existance to executes balance.
It doesn't take aay the fact the executioner can be and is used by every stam build pretty much, same cannot be said for mag, there isn't a universal execution skill.
The same logic can be used against lot of different types of abilities in PvP You know. For example there are no universal shields abilities , there is no universal healing weapon skill line etc. Yes sherlock magicka and stamina setups are different.
Also let's wait and see how big those additional damage to low health targets on Impulse will be when they'll fix it.
We have Bone Shield and Vigor Stamina based skills.
Stamina class have access to Executioner, Bone Shield and Vigor you would say that mag class have access also, but is a stamina cost ability and some scales with stamina.
So I still can see stamina class in a huge advantage in pvp for other reasons + plus this amazing skill called Executioner.
ZOS tell me why you don't give to mag class a similar ability to mag class???
Could be melee range no problem but we need it to still play pvp with our mag classes.
Bone shield scales of health not from stamina. , it only costs stamina to cast. That's quite a difference from what I was talking about. Side note when it was scaling from stamina on PTS it was scrapped because it was considered too strong.
Vigor is a single ability not whole skill line. That's quite a difference from what I was talking about.
Also those were just examples of the differences to give You an idea that differences exist and not everything is or has to be equall. Instead of understanding it You've just started to disect those examples , missing the point rntirely.
You still have a shield and a healing.
Mag still not have a execute.
Doesn't matter you try to say it is quite different or run to a point to other.
The truth is stamina have access a healing and shield and execute that any stamina can run it.
And think about this, I prefer have a skill like vigor that I don't need to use a specifically weapon to access only a skill as mag class do with rapid regen.
I would prefer a vigor for Mag and I can use sword and board and still have a healing like vigor. Or use offensive weapons and still have a vigor to use.
So you brought another point, but when we see how it works in reality we see that stamina have to much more options and possibilities to be better in pvp that mag.
By that logic magicka setups still have execute when they'll use bloodthirsdty lol
It's funny that when I said magicka setups have Impulse as execute Your counterargument was that nobody is using it but when I say stamina don't have acces to stamina shield You're saying they have bone shield (which nobody is using and that in fact isnt even stamina based shield). It's funny how You contradict Yourself just to find suiting argument.
The truth is stamina (expect stamden) dont have acces to spammable burst heals based on offensive reources and to shields. I think lot of stam setups would preffer to have that over vigor. But that is what differences about stam and mag are for. You cannot have everything You want.
Also it's funny that in terms of vigor vs rapid regen You claim that skills which are not tied to a weapon skill lines are better because they're giving You freedom of choice but in the same thread You're gloryfying skill that is tied to a weapon skill line. And it's not like every magicka class don't have execute.[snip]
I can't believe what I'm reading...
The difference is obvious:
Stam can choose if Wana run it or not
Mag can't choose...
And yes Executioner is so good that worth use a two handed weapon, and also you can use D Swing, and rally, so. You are saying stuffs that doesn't make sense IN A REAL GAME SITUATION.
Mag can also choose if wanna run rapid regen or not. The difference is they usually have alternatives if they don't.
IN A REAL GAME SITUATION three mag classes have acces to an execute without drawbacks of tying themselfs to a weapon 4th class have semi execute passive and most of mag setups doesn't even need execute due to overwhelming strenght of proc sets with 2 being procced exclusively by destro staff abilities with one of them having execute component that for now is bugged but we'll see what happen when it no longer will be. You want to know which destro staff ability is right now better then executioner ? Elemental drain when combined with vateshran destro. It's so good that even lot of stamina players is running it atm sometimes choosing to drop 2h for it. Right now IN A REAL GAME SITUATION magicka setups that don't have acces to an execute are far from needing it. Fact that You got demolished by some stamblade who finished Your 3% health bar with executioner won't change that
Omg.. Unbelievable.
Just pick one skill and drop executioner as I posted above.
As I already said many stam players already did that. They picked vateshran destro with elemental drain.
Finally going back to You claiming that stamina setups have acces to shield throguh bone shield. If You consider bone shield to be viable stamina shield then by that logic we can say that every magicka class except dk have acces to an execute and dk don't need that because he have higher pressure potential. /s
Seriously????
Vateshran is not a skill.
I already told it.
Can you pick one skill?
No you can't, you need to pair with Vateshran and you still can use executioner in the front bar.
Vateshran just make EVERYBODY stronger and stamina still using executioner, pressure a lot of pressure with execute, but only for stamina, mag classes can't.
Everything you say just make my point stronger
[snip]
Your challenge to pick one ability is also pretty silly. It's obvious destro staff won't be as strong as 2h because magicka setups strenght was always bound more to class skills then stamina setups. This is why there are 4 stamina based weapons and 2 magicka based one and from 180 non ultimate class abilities morphs only around 30 is stamina based or stamina centric. Thats is 2:1 win for stamina in weapon skill lines but 5:1 magicka win in class skill lines. It's obvious stamina weapons must be stronger. It was like that since game release. Fair deal would be to ask someone to name 1 magicka based class ability that executioner could be sacrificed for and when that deal is considered well there is few abilities that come to mind.
Yes Vateshran makes everyone stronger but have You seen stamina unique weapon that does that ? That only shows how strong vateshran destro is compared to other weapons and mag builds sacrifice way less then stam to wear it.
Well You may think whatever You want but it's hard to make Your point stronger when You didn't make any point. Your main argumentation can be summarised that because You got hit with 18k executioner everyone needs it (although I don't really see mag setups other then maybe dk running with 5 meters range execute). In fact that executioner wasn't even responsible for Your death. Those 4x7k+ spammables that You didn't blocked or dodged were. You would die anyway with or without executioner being used so Your main argument holds no value.
[snip]
You can't see what you are doing you are making my point even stronger.
You said Stam weapons are stronger then magicka.
You said stamina classes are running Vateshran
And still can use execute.
Stam class a have the option and mag class don't.
[snip]
And about some stamina using ele drain without Vateshran... Are they using Ele Drain without executioner?
No of course not. So I ask you to pick one and drop executioner. Are you saying me that you can drop executioner for ele drain without Vateshran????
[snip]
Responding to Your points though.
I've said there is more stam weapons then magicka weapons to compensate overwhelming amount of mag class abilities vs stam class abilities. Stam weapons are here to compensate that so they obviously need to have more features otherwise stam setups would be at huge disadventage.
You seem to see stamina classes running vate destro as a sign of a great choice stam classes have but is it really that great choice when You need to drop all choices designed for You to pick a set designed for other type of setups ? Fact that stam classes are using vate destro means they lack any unique weapon designed for them that would be better. That is actually lack of options rather then having them. That one weapon is outperforming many stamina weapon skills lines. Do magicka setups struggle with the same issue ? Is there any unique weapon from stamina weapon skill line that outperforms whole destro or resto staff with their abilities and passives ?
Are there stamina setups with ele drain without executioner ? Yes I've seen few and they were doing pretty fine. As I've said though there is not many of them because vate destro is simply that strong.
I've already said challenging someone to switch 1 magicka weapon ability for executioner is silly and ignorant when most of magicka setups effectiveness comes from class abilities. For most of magicka setups weapon abilities are just addition to their offense when for most of stamina setups weapon abilities are core of their offense. Not seeing that difference equalls to not knowing how game works. If You want a fair deal challenge me to pick 1 class ability I would switch with executioner.Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on January 17, 2021 3:48PM2 -
wheem_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
In many cases, especially for organized fights, the Vateshran 2h is far superior to the Destruction Staff. But no Magicka build is going to be able to run the 2h effectively - the cost in Stamina is far too high. Which brings us to the real reason that Stamina builds can utilize the Vateshran Destruction Staff if they choose, but Magicka builds can't really do the same for any of the Stamina-based set weapons: The penetration from Elemental Drain works equally well for both Magicka and Stamina builds, and Stamina players are oftentimes able to get all the damage and healing they need without regard to their back-barred weapon type.Yes Vateshran makes everyone stronger but have You seen stamina unique weapon that does that ? That only shows how strong vateshran destro is compared to other weapons and mag builds sacrifice way less then stam to wear it.5 -
UntouchableHunter✭✭✭✭UntouchableHunter wrote: »
Ele drain is a skill though. And some people are even using it on stam builds without vateshran destro simply for the debuff. Have You seen similar situation with any unique stamina weapon or stamina weapon skill line ability ?UntouchableHunter wrote: »UntouchableHunter wrote: »UntouchableHunter wrote: »UntouchableHunter wrote: »UntouchableHunter wrote: »Radiant destruction is a bad execute, in pvp, take a split second before does any damage, cannot be animation canceled and leave you vulnerable while channeling
By that logic executioner is a bad execute because it can be dodged and have 5 meters radius. And after recent changes executioner also cannot be animation cacelled plus takes a split of second before it hits (animation of the swnging weapon needs to touch enemy to register the hit) and due to the same changes very often it cannot be even fired despite being in range when it was casted due to how server vs client calculations were changed.
Also nice shift in discussion from executes existance to executes balance.
It doesn't take aay the fact the executioner can be and is used by every stam build pretty much, same cannot be said for mag, there isn't a universal execution skill.
The same logic can be used against lot of different types of abilities in PvP You know. For example there are no universal shields abilities , there is no universal healing weapon skill line etc. Yes sherlock magicka and stamina setups are different.
Also let's wait and see how big those additional damage to low health targets on Impulse will be when they'll fix it.
We have Bone Shield and Vigor Stamina based skills.
Stamina class have access to Executioner, Bone Shield and Vigor you would say that mag class have access also, but is a stamina cost ability and some scales with stamina.
So I still can see stamina class in a huge advantage in pvp for other reasons + plus this amazing skill called Executioner.
ZOS tell me why you don't give to mag class a similar ability to mag class???
Could be melee range no problem but we need it to still play pvp with our mag classes.
Bone shield scales of health not from stamina. , it only costs stamina to cast. That's quite a difference from what I was talking about. Side note when it was scaling from stamina on PTS it was scrapped because it was considered too strong.
Vigor is a single ability not whole skill line. That's quite a difference from what I was talking about.
Also those were just examples of the differences to give You an idea that differences exist and not everything is or has to be equall. Instead of understanding it You've just started to disect those examples , missing the point rntirely.
You still have a shield and a healing.
Mag still not have a execute.
Doesn't matter you try to say it is quite different or run to a point to other.
The truth is stamina have access a healing and shield and execute that any stamina can run it.
And think about this, I prefer have a skill like vigor that I don't need to use a specifically weapon to access only a skill as mag class do with rapid regen.
I would prefer a vigor for Mag and I can use sword and board and still have a healing like vigor. Or use offensive weapons and still have a vigor to use.
So you brought another point, but when we see how it works in reality we see that stamina have to much more options and possibilities to be better in pvp that mag.
By that logic magicka setups still have execute when they'll use bloodthirsdty lol
It's funny that when I said magicka setups have Impulse as execute Your counterargument was that nobody is using it but when I say stamina don't have acces to stamina shield You're saying they have bone shield (which nobody is using and that in fact isnt even stamina based shield). It's funny how You contradict Yourself just to find suiting argument.
The truth is stamina (expect stamden) dont have acces to spammable burst heals based on offensive reources and to shields. I think lot of stam setups would preffer to have that over vigor. But that is what differences about stam and mag are for. You cannot have everything You want.
Also it's funny that in terms of vigor vs rapid regen You claim that skills which are not tied to a weapon skill lines are better because they're giving You freedom of choice but in the same thread You're gloryfying skill that is tied to a weapon skill line. And it's not like every magicka class don't have execute. Contradicting Yourself seems to be something You're really good at.
I can't believe what I'm reading...
The difference is obvious:
Stam can choose if Wana run it or not
Mag can't choose...
And yes Executioner is so good that worth use a two handed weapon, and also you can use D Swing, and rally, so. You are saying stuffs that doesn't make sense IN A REAL GAME SITUATION.
Mag can also choose if wanna run rapid regen or not. The difference is they usually have alternatives if they don't.
IN A REAL GAME SITUATION three mag classes have acces to an execute without drawbacks of tying themselfs to a weapon 4th class have semi execute passive and most of mag setups doesn't even need execute due to overwhelming strenght of proc sets with 2 being procced exclusively by destro staff abilities with one of them having execute component that for now is bugged but we'll see what happen when it no longer will be. You want to know which destro staff ability is right now better then executioner ? Elemental drain when combined with vateshran destro. It's so good that even lot of stamina players is running it atm sometimes choosing to drop 2h for it. Right now IN A REAL GAME SITUATION magicka setups that don't have acces to an execute are far from needing it. Fact that You got demolished by some stamblade who finished Your 3% health bar with executioner won't change that
Omg.. Unbelievable.
Just pick one skill and drop executioner as I posted above.
As I already said many stam players already did that. They picked vateshran destro with elemental drain.
Finally going back to You claiming that stamina setups have acces to shield throguh bone shield. If You consider bone shield to be viable stamina shield then by that logic we can say that every magicka class except dk have acces to an execute and dk don't need that because he have higher pressure potential. /s
Seriously????
Vateshran is not a skill.
I already told it.
Can you pick one skill?
No you can't, you need to pair with Vateshran and you still can use executioner in the front bar.
Vateshran just make EVERYBODY stronger and stamina still using executioner, pressure a lot of pressure with execute, but only for stamina, mag classes can't.
Everything you say just make my point stronger
So... I'm done with you, you are not talking seriously...
Your challenge to pick one ability is also pretty silly. It's obvious destro staff won't be as strong as 2h because magicka setups strenght was always bound more to class skills then stamina setups. This is why there are 4 stamina based weapons and 2 magicka based one and from 180 non ultimate class abilities morphs only around 30 is stamina based or stamina centric. Thats is 2:1 win for stamina in weapon skill lines but 5:1 magicka win in class skill lines. It's obvious stamina weapons must be stronger. It was like that since game release. Fair deal would be to ask someone to name 1 magicka based class ability that executioner could be sacrificed for and when that deal is considered well there is few abilities that come to mind.
Yes Vateshran makes everyone stronger but have You seen stamina unique weapon that does that ? That only shows how strong vateshran destro is compared to other weapons and mag builds sacrifice way less then stam to wear it.
Well You may think whatever You want but it's hard to make Your point stronger when You didn't make any point. Your main argumentation can be summarised that because You got hit with 18k executioner everyone needs it (although I don't really see mag setups other then maybe dk running with 5 meters range execute). In fact that executioner wasn't even responsible for Your death. Those 4x7k+ spammables that You didn't blocked or dodged were. You would die anyway with or without executioner being used so Your main argument holds no value.
Am i talking seriously ? Well sometimes I am being sarcastic and using certain arguments as a bait seeing how overdramatic You can get.
You can't see what you are doing you are making my point even stronger.
You said Stam weapons are stronger then magicka.
You said stamina classes are running Vateshran
And still can use execute.
Stam class a have the option and mag class don't.
Can even understand that?
Can you even see what you are saying.
And about some stamina using ele drain without Vateshran... Are they using Ele Drain without executioner?
No of course not. So I ask you to pick one and drop executioner. Are you saying me that you can drop executioner for ele drain without Vateshran????
This is joke, I can't believe.
I'm not done with you anymore because every post you put here make my point even stronger
Responding to Your points though.
I've said there is more stam weapons then magicka weapons to compensate overwhelming amount of mag class abilities vs stam class abilities. Stam weapons are here to compensate that so they obviously need to have more features otherwise stam setups would be at huge disadventage.
You seem to see stamina classes running vate destro as a sign of a great choice stam classes have but is it really that great choice when You need to drop all choices designed for You to pick a set designed for other type of setups ? Fact that stam classes are using vate destro means they lack any unique weapon designed for them that would be better. That is actually lack of options rather then having them. That one weapon is outperforming many stamina weapon skills lines. Do magicka setups struggle with the same issue ? Is there any unique weapon from stamina weapon skill line that outperforms whole destro or resto staff with their abilities and passives ?
Are there stamina setups with ele drain without executioner ? Yes I've seen few and they were doing pretty fine. As I've said though there is not many of them because vate destro is simply that strong.
I've already said challenging someone to switch 1 magicka weapon ability for executioner is silly and ignorant when most of magicka setups effectiveness comes from class abilities. For most of magicka setups weapon abilities are just addition to their offense when for most of stamina setups weapon abilities are core of their offense. Not seeing that difference equalls to not knowing how game works. If You want a fair deal challenge me to pick 1 class ability I would switch with executioner.
Stam setup would have a huge disadvantage?
Can you see that Stam class have a huge advantage in pvp?
No lacking at all for Stam class, are you kidding me. Vateshran just came recently and strong as a hell for everyone. No lacking here before it and now we have Vateshran that Stam can use. Do you really think about what are you righting before do it?
Oh do you see Stam class running ele drain alone. Nice I Wana fight this stamina guys. Let see if they can kill me with ele drain without executioner.
The challenge is not silly and ignorant. Silly and ignorant is run from a challenge saying that is silly and ignorant.
You can't pick any mag weapon abilitie for executioner because you know executioner is so strong and every stam class is running it.
In your opinion Stam class was lacking in Vateshran before Vateshran even exist.
Now Vateshran exist and Stam class can use Vateshran and still using executioner. Where is the lacking here????????
You again make my point even stronger.
Please give me more.
Edited by UntouchableHunter on January 17, 2021 3:42AM2 -
UntouchableHunter✭✭✭✭And to finish... do you think is not far I pick executioner Vs all mag weapon abilities, really is not far? Why???
Because mag weapon abilities are a joke compared with stamina weapon abilities2 -
KhajiitLivesMatter✭✭✭✭UntouchableHunter wrote: »
yea than i want stamina shilds stamina purge and stamina beam1 -
UntouchableHunter✭✭✭✭KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »UntouchableHunter wrote: »
yea than i want stamina shilds stamina purge and stamina beam
Wow executioner is really so strong to make you Wana everything?
A lot of Stam are running zaan and Vateshran.
You have a shield and purge in alliance skills.
You have everything as a Stam class.
The other guy told about bone shield isn't good.
I got hitted today for spike shield 4k spike shield.
You already have everything and still afraid to give a execute to mag...
You guys should play mag before say this stuffs here.4