As a main tank, what brothers you about other tanks??

Starlight_Whisper

What makes you angry or annoyed...or just saying nooob, I could do better?

wheresbes

Yesterday I decided to do an easy dungeon as a dd with my whopping 10k DPS ahahah 'cause I was really looking forward to see how another tank would do. Except there were four of us So, for the time being, I'd say that what annoys me most is when there's no tank

Jaimeh

As a DD something that bothers me is when tanks move the boss around too much for no reason, so that the boss walks out of the AoE DoTs, and we have to keep recasting them. Or when they don't pull ranged mobs, or don't stack things, but move to the other side to pierce something, mobs follow them, and then they move back, and you're basically chasing everything around. Finally, when they rush to the boss so there's a big pull of adds, but they don't taunt anything, so there's always that one lowbie DD who dies 3 times till they get there. As a healer, when they stay inside a small AoE that they can easily step out of without moving too much (same for DDs) because then you have to focus them, or when everything is OK at a no stress fight, resources etc., but they still use green dragon blood at full health--I know it's probably a peace of mind thing, but it still feels bad

zvavi

Mobs not stacked
priority targets not taunted
Boss being dragged all over the place.


like seriously. i once raged at a tank so much after he declined my offer to teach him to stack the king in vDoM, that i told him to not freaking taunt them till they are stacked, and stacked them myself. (he was very damage blame on why priority targets are not taunted the whole dungeon while not providing support...), he was dragging all 4 of them around for 20 seconds till they are stacked in a way we cant use aoe dots etc before i snapped at him... it was horrid. and then it is dps fault for dmg being low. lol. when he let me stack them, it suddenly became smooth.

Tommy_The_Gun

Hmm... if I were to "nitpick" I would say that sometimes DPS take their role and break our reputation...

mobicera

Going to have to go with not stacking mobs or taunting priority targets as the prime offender.
However when I do 4 person content I do get annoyed when a tank doesn't really buff or debuff.
I mean in 4 person content a tank should be giving me yolna/olo or pa, orbs, altar, crusher, horn while stacking everything and keeping taunt on all priority threats, anything less and well step it up:p

I tend not to pug though and main a tank so I may have a higher standard than some, but I promise a lower standard than some as well lol.

KaGaOri

Not at end-game level by far, so my bar is set fairly low regardless buffs and debuffs (but they're nice to have). Love tanks keeping enemies taunted and stacked at one place to get killed by AoEs as much as next person. What bothers me is:

- tank that won't tank (won't taunt boss / heavy hitting adds, won't stack and chain enemies, will wait for dps to pull and get agro, will die in two hits if ever noticed by boss), aka "fake tank"

- tank that will load into (normal) dungeon, find out it's a DLC (or even just longer base game one, like City of Ash II) and leave group / go offline immediately, not even waiting for first pull to see if group is worth the time

- tank who won't wait before pulling on mechanics heavy fights (Unhallowed grave second boss, anyone?) for mechanics to be explained, not even if failure on mechanics causes repeated wipes and people spam "wait!" in a chat - still will rush back in as soon (or even before) everyone gets corporeal after res.

code65536

1. Not having taunt on the important targets.
2. Not keeping important targets stationary.
3. Not stacking/chaining when necessary.
4. Failure to handle mechanics: failure to turn cleaves away, failure to interrupt, etc.
5. Too slow. A tank should always be at the front, the first to pull. And if a DD gets in front of the tank, it's not the fault of the DD for being fast, but rather it's the tank's fault for being too slow and not using expedition.

When PUGing, I usually queue as a tank, in large part because PUG tanks often annoy me too much.

VaranisArano

In a normal dungeon PUG, my expectations are very low.

All my healer really wants is for the tank to hold boss aggro, so the boss isn't up in her face or chasing one of the squishier DDs who can't facetank. I can facetank on my healer, but doing so makes me wish I'd just played my main tank instead.


Side note: Does anyone else have problems turning off their main tank habits when they play other roles? When one of my friends wants to tank and I play DD, I find that I'm constantly pushing the pace because of my instinct to rush into the mob pack and aggro everything with an AOE. *hangs head in shame* Yeah, I'm one of those DDs who doesn't always wait for the tank, even though I know how annoying it is. I don't have that problem when playing healer, which is why I usually stick to healer as my non-tank role.

code65536

VaranisArano wrote: »

When one of my friends wants to tank and I play DD, I find that I'm constantly pushing the pace because of my instinct to rush into the mob pack and aggro everything with an AOE. *hangs head in shame*

That's me. But there's no shame in that. It just means that the tank is too slow.

My standard dungeon tank setup:

Path for group-wide expedition. Wild Hunt to make sure nobody is ever in front of me.

selig_fay

code65536 wrote: »

1. Too slow. A tank should always be at the front, the first to pull. And if a DD gets in front of the tank, it's not the fault of the DD for being fast, but rather it's the tank's fault for being too slow and not using expedition.

.

I think people should understand that a tank can... No, it definitely has no place under something like speed. As soon as you ask a normal tank to take speed, you immediately put it in front of a choice, remove a good buff or debuff or personal protection or sustain orb. I understand that DPS can have builds for 1 bar, but this is not possible for a tank.

When you run ahead of the tank, you take all the responsibility and all the risks on yourself. If you are not ready for this, then you write about it in the chat to solve this problem, or just wait or speed up the tank on your own. But when you leave your group behind, you have no right to blame the group. And the same thing works for the tank, because the DPS can find the chest and stop, while the tank rushes headlong into the mobs. When a group doesn't work together, it's a bad thing.

Fennwitty

code65536 wrote: »

1. Too slow. A tank should always be at the front, the first to pull. And if a DD gets in front of the tank, it's not the fault of the DD for being fast, but rather it's the tank's fault for being too slow and not using expedition.

So you prefer the tank to lose a Yoln or Powerful Assault type bonus, or monster helm that helps the group, to slot Ring of the Wild Hunt and/or be critically low on stamina because they have to chase you down the hall to each mob pull?

EDIT: Not to mention those poor magicka characters four rooms behind.

I will have to disagree unless you're strictly speaking normal dungeons.

And then I'll just mostly disagree.


For the original question what bothers me most about other tanks is ... fake tanks.

idk

code65536 wrote: »

1. Not having taunt on the important targets.
2. Not keeping important targets stationary.
3. Not stacking/chaining when necessary.
4. Failure to handle mechanics: failure to turn cleaves away, failure to interrupt, etc.
5. Too slow. A tank should always be at the front, the first to pull. And if a DD gets in front of the tank, it's not the fault of the DD for being fast, but rather it's the tank's fault for being too slow and not using expedition.

When PUGing, I usually queue as a tank, in large part because PUG tanks often annoy me too much.

I agree with all but the last point. I have seen DDs using the Ring of the Wild Hunt. Granted, the tank could equip the same but I would pretty much suggest it is the DDs fault that they get ahead if they are using that mythic.

Granted, I never queue with less than 3 people so when a DD is doing that we have ways of tempering their enthusiasm.

Vevvev

Not staying still.

You can do everything right but if you run around like a chicken with its head cut off it makes life miserable for everyone else.

Sahidom

In defense of the tanks,

Tanks cannot always taunt adds. This is due to LOS targeting the taunt without moving the boss. Or, having sufficient resources to taunt all mobs outside priority targets or priority targets blocked by LOS targeting.

Tanks have to move to avoid certain mechanics that could one shot them or tick through their health faster than incoming heals. DD who *** about recasting AOE don't understand what will Cascade when the tank falls, recasting skills is the lesser price for a potential wipe.

Tanks have a finite level of resources to absorb damage (stamina) and block-casting has bugs; so redirecting party buffs outside proc sets should not override the Tanks survival level. DD should be strong enough to deal with unexpected focus from an add in the boss fight with enough situation awareness to redirect their damage to deal with the threat (see LOS taunt targeting issue)

The expectation of the tank is to hold boss aggro and survive mechanics that have a high risk of them being dropped due to damage. If the group is not able to adapt to the Tanks needs than their being too selfish.

Starlock

Nothing, really - I'm not interested in judging. The only exception I make for that are "tanks." You know, that gal who you got in a dungeon who doesn't even have a taunt slotted on a dungeon that really needs a proper tank?

jaws343

Tanks who don't stack the two Harvesters in Banished Cells 2. You can taunt them both and then LOS them around the pillar so that both stack on each other and the DPS don't have to bounce back and forth across the room to DPS them when the shields go on and off. Makes the fight so much simpler.

The same kind of applies across other fights too. When tanks don't use surroundings to maximize the fight for DPS. Not using LOS to pull adds, not using choke points to funnel enemies together, not dragging a corridor of enemies to a choke point to burn at once.

jaws343

idk wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

1. Not having taunt on the important targets.
2. Not keeping important targets stationary.
3. Not stacking/chaining when necessary.
4. Failure to handle mechanics: failure to turn cleaves away, failure to interrupt, etc.
5. Too slow. A tank should always be at the front, the first to pull. And if a DD gets in front of the tank, it's not the fault of the DD for being fast, but rather it's the tank's fault for being too slow and not using expedition.

When PUGing, I usually queue as a tank, in large part because PUG tanks often annoy me too much.

I agree with all but the last point. I have seen DDs using the Ring of the Wild Hunt. Granted, the tank could equip the same but I would pretty much suggest it is the DDs fault that they get ahead if they are using that mythic.

Granted, I never queue with less than 3 people so when a DD is doing that we have ways of tempering their enthusiasm.

I keep seeing people throwing out the Wild Hunt as the reason it appears that DPS are running ahead, but, for example, I run False God on my Sorc and that proccing after a boss or ad kill paired with boundless storm and I am shooting ahead of the rest of my team just by pure moving normally forward.

idk

jaws343 wrote: »

idk wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

1. Not having taunt on the important targets.
2. Not keeping important targets stationary.
3. Not stacking/chaining when necessary.
4. Failure to handle mechanics: failure to turn cleaves away, failure to interrupt, etc.
5. Too slow. A tank should always be at the front, the first to pull. And if a DD gets in front of the tank, it's not the fault of the DD for being fast, but rather it's the tank's fault for being too slow and not using expedition.

When PUGing, I usually queue as a tank, in large part because PUG tanks often annoy me too much.

I agree with all but the last point. I have seen DDs using the Ring of the Wild Hunt. Granted, the tank could equip the same but I would pretty much suggest it is the DDs fault that they get ahead if they are using that mythic.

Granted, I never queue with less than 3 people so when a DD is doing that we have ways of tempering their enthusiasm.

I keep seeing people throwing out the Wild Hunt as the reason it appears that DPS are running ahead, but, for example, I run False God on my Sorc and that proccing after a boss or ad kill paired with boundless storm and I am shooting ahead of the rest of my team just by pure moving normally forward.

If one has to build for even more speed then your post demonstrates that DDs running the set is an issue if they intend to pull when they get to the next group or boss.

While I do often sprint to a pull when we are in a hurry, I do not change my gear to tank a dungeon and I do not have to. Since I never queue with less than 3 guild members we just let them do their thing and sit back and watch their health bar. We have the tank, DPS, and heal/dps so we are not concerned if they get upset we did not save them from themselves.

code65536

Fennwitty wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

1. Too slow. A tank should always be at the front, the first to pull. And if a DD gets in front of the tank, it's not the fault of the DD for being fast, but rather it's the tank's fault for being too slow and not using expedition.

So you prefer the tank to lose a Yoln or Powerful Assault type bonus, or monster helm that helps the group, to slot Ring of the Wild Hunt and/or be critically low on stamina because they have to chase you down the hall to each mob pull?

EDIT: Not to mention those poor magicka characters four rooms behind.

I will have to disagree unless you're strictly speaking normal dungeons.

And then I'll just mostly disagree.


For the original question what bothers me most about other tanks is ... fake tanks.

I tank vet DLC dungeons with Wild Hunt. Let me tell you, it's the most amazing thing since sliced bread. All I lose is a 2pc monster set (which, frankly, aren't that useful for tanks) and now I can stay ahead of the DDs without any effort. With the expedition from False God and/or Channeled Acceleration, DDs in the groups that I run with basically have permanent expedition. And before I started using Wild Hunt, I needed to spam my own expedition to keep up, sometimes with a little bit of sprinting. (Which, for the record, is fine, and I still believe that it's the tank's job to maintain expedition.)

But with Wild Hunt, I don't need to spam expedition (though I still like to) and definitely have no need to sprint. My usual monster set for dungeons was Thurvokun for the AoE minor maim, but now that minor maim has been nerfed to worthlessness this patch, it's no loss for the group to drop the set. On the final boss for a DLC dungeon on Vet HM, I will gear-swap out of WH, though. But I don't bother with non-DLC dungeons or the other bosses.

DDs generally shouldn't be in Wild Hunt, in part because monster sets for DDs are generally more useful than those for tanks. And if a DD does opt to ditch a 2pc in favor of a mythic, they're going to go Pale Order, not Wild Hunt.

Maybe they might go WH in a normal, but it doesn't matter what people do in a normal.

Dojohoda

A DD was a bit annoyed with me (the tank) for moving the boss and mob to another location. I had a reason to move them, but that was bad timing on my end. I didn't see the ultimate that had been placed.

Starlight_Whisper

jaws343 wrote: »

Tanks who don't stack the two Harvesters in Banished Cells 2. You can taunt them both and then LOS them around the pillar so that both stack on each other and the DPS don't have to bounce back and forth across the room to DPS them when the shields go on and off. Makes the fight so much simpler.

The same kind of applies across other fights too. When tanks don't use surroundings to maximize the fight for DPS. Not using LOS to pull adds, not using choke points to funnel enemies together, not dragging a corridor of enemies to a choke point to burn at once.

I personally just take them back into the hallway till they stack up.

Sahidom

Dojohoda wrote: »

A DD was a bit annoyed with me (the tank) for moving the boss and mob to another location. I had a reason to move them, but that was bad timing on my end. I didn't see the ultimate that had been placed.

Most people don't see friendly AOE effects since the default setting is to not show them; as Tank, you can see the animation of the attack but not where it lands and stays; in fluid boss fights, the tank often doesn't see everything and moving a boss out of AOE just happens.

So don't feel bad or take the DD complaint serious; they're not built to handle fluid fights where the boss gets moved due to mechanics.

zvavi

Sahidom wrote: »

Dojohoda wrote: »

A DD was a bit annoyed with me (the tank) for moving the boss and mob to another location. I had a reason to move them, but that was bad timing on my end. I didn't see the ultimate that had been placed.

Most people don't see friendly AOE effects since the default setting is to not show them; as Tank, you can see the animation of the attack but not where it lands and stays; in fluid boss fights, the tank often doesn't see everything and moving a boss out of AOE just happens.

So don't feel bad or take the DD complaint serious; they're not built to handle fluid fights where the boss gets moved due to mechanics.

no. it doesnt. boss shouldnt be moved unless you have to, from the simple reason that aoes are always there.moving boss will require dds to recast their aoes. which means more strain on resources, and less damage. if you have to move because mechanics, sure, do so, i will keep trying to do my best to move the boss the least, which means doing crazy *** things like dodging light attacks of an enraged giant in vIR.

El_Borracho

Just to add to the above posts:

1. When a tank pulls a boss out of an ulti, i.e. standard, colossus, etc.
2. When the tank pulls the boss out of everyone's AOEs.

There are others that are mechanics-based. Like pulling the ice atro in with the boss in Frostvault, for instance. But those above 2 are the ones I see the most

Sahidom

zvavi wrote: »

Sahidom wrote: »

Dojohoda wrote: »

A DD was a bit annoyed with me (the tank) for moving the boss and mob to another location. I had a reason to move them, but that was bad timing on my end. I didn't see the ultimate that had been placed.

Most people don't see friendly AOE effects since the default setting is to not show them; as Tank, you can see the animation of the attack but not where it lands and stays; in fluid boss fights, the tank often doesn't see everything and moving a boss out of AOE just happens.

So don't feel bad or take the DD complaint serious; they're not built to handle fluid fights where the boss gets moved due to mechanics.

no. it doesnt. boss shouldnt be moved unless you have to, from the simple reason that aoes are always there.moving boss will require dds to recast their aoes. which means more strain on resources, and less damage. if you have to move because mechanics, sure, do so, i will keep trying to do my best to move the boss the least, which means doing crazy *** things like dodging light attacks of an enraged giant in vIR.

There are many instances where the tank has to move to gain LOS to taunt a priority add when DD block LOS; Or, when healing is priority to DD and heavy hitting mechanics are incoming and the tank doesn't have the Stamina to block the full hit; Or, when layered AOE are ticking through the health bar since Tanks often don't have Major Evasion; and the list of scenarios continues.

Under ideal conditions, your right. Its better to hold the boss static. How good your groups DPS also plays a factor, vice versa, how soft the tank is too. You will always find critical players that fault the tank than themselves, its a reality.

This often happens when new tanks go into veteran trials and working on their gear or skill bar setup for fluid damage mitigation and handling fights with adds.

Bottom line, moving the boss is an inconvenience, sure; but as tank, I'd take my survival while holding aggro over a DD if the choice was there. That's why DD rez...

Also, boss fight mechanics occur base on percentage of the bosses life, so you can control the fight, if the boss moves to allow a respite to DD to regain resources on their recovery ticks.