Magicka Nightblade - we want our rights

Dracane

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

SupremeRissole wrote: »

make dark cloak heal to highest stats, this will make magblade, tankblade and non stealth stamblade better

Agreed. So many people complain about shadowy disguise being OP but ZoS's other option is honestly a terrible alternate morph that doesn't do much if you're under 45k health and in PvP it's not great either after battle spirit. Plus minor protection isn't what it used to be. Do I use dark cloak? Yes, but because it's that or shadowy and I'm not looking for the "invisible" play style. It certainly needs a buff to be in line with every other classes heal. Every time i swap to my warden with arctic blast that has a 12k tool tip burst heal plus HoT plus damage plus stun, my NB cries a little lol.

Arctic wind heals for 10% of your hp in pvp. Wow.

1.3k tooltip on the hot. Its noticeable.
Don't forget the 11k tooltip burst heal or the unblockable aoe stun
or the fact that it can proc chilled giving the warden 10% more crit damage.


10% of your max HP ? if you mean the burst heal I don't know how you are getting it to only heal you so little. If you mean the hot attached to it 10% of your max hp would be insane lol

Play the class then. It heals for 3,9k for my boyfriend with 35k health and heavy armor. Who looks at healing tooltips in pvp with battlespirit in place? Pointless.

With heavy, it heals for roughly 11,5% of your max health. It is not strong at all. Honor the dead heals for 5,5k with the same gear and stats as we tested last night. That also refunds almost all its cost. And here you are complaining about arctic wind.

Nezyr_Jezz

Doczy wrote: »

Hello my magblade friends. we are in agony in long time. But we need to unite. we need to show our strength to developers.

They need to learn we are not slaves, we wont accept our fate or their forces to play another class. We are paying their salary. We are paying money of little hamsters food who tries hard to power the server.

I have few ideas for make magblade better. I think you will agree with me.We want justice. Not an advantage to other classes.

*First of all we want to get our major sorcery and major brutality from siphoning strikes and morphs . Not from useless sap essence and morphs.

*Make new visual for mark target like weakness to elements

*Add offensive penetration to grim focus and morphs and all buffs stays for 3-5 seconds after abilty used. and make it faster for landing.

*Add Minor Prophecy to Hemorrhage passive

*Make dark cloaks heals scale to magicka or %x per second

*%35 heal for 4 seconds + minor mending for 4 seconds to swallow soul

*İnsta-dot for cripple

*and 0 cast time to soul harvest . Its not aoe its not cc so why it still have cast time?


I know we are unhappy about our tier in pvp. Magblade class is lowest tier in PVP for long time. Because we are not showing our hand to them.

you can add your ideas and discuss so they can realize again there is a lot of magblade players.

And my last call. Lets cancel our subs if they still ignores us. So they can continue to play with their favorite classes.

Useless sap essence XD lol. good one.

Magblade is not the lowest tier if you know how to use it. It has its flaws just like most other mag builds. Itd unique playstile favours heavy on 1vX and its hard to properly execute a teamplay unless you have multuple other nightblades.

I do think offering should be removed, stealth cloak morph should be separated from healing morph making those two baseline for each magblade.

I do also agree on cast time ults being cast tho.

As far as im playing magblades are kings of soloing, farming and single taget dps with multiple heals on PVE. Less telegraphed ults and procs (merciless, harvest) should be adressed in terms of animation/sound/stealth plus mobility skill thats not tied directly to ground or stealth should also be present as an option.

That being said magblades are lacking proper burst/sustain heals from siphon thats why they have to lean toward resto backbar unless they are bombers or gangers.

the1andonlyskwex

In general, I think magblades are fine.

The one really obvious weakness is Mark Target, which is strictly worse than Elemental Drain (for mag) or Razor Caltrops (for stam), especially after the recent changes to major and minor buffs (particularly the merger of fracture and breach).

The only other significant change I would make would be to replace Shrewd Offering with something capable of self-healing (but not a self-only heal, which would be OP in PvP). As-is, Nightblade is the only class I hate healing on, because its burst heal doesn't work on itself. I know some people love the minor mending from Healthy Offering, but I find that a burst heal that doesn't work on one member of my group (myself) just won't fit in my limited bar space.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

Dracane wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

SupremeRissole wrote: »

make dark cloak heal to highest stats, this will make magblade, tankblade and non stealth stamblade better

Agreed. So many people complain about shadowy disguise being OP but ZoS's other option is honestly a terrible alternate morph that doesn't do much if you're under 45k health and in PvP it's not great either after battle spirit. Plus minor protection isn't what it used to be. Do I use dark cloak? Yes, but because it's that or shadowy and I'm not looking for the "invisible" play style. It certainly needs a buff to be in line with every other classes heal. Every time i swap to my warden with arctic blast that has a 12k tool tip burst heal plus HoT plus damage plus stun, my NB cries a little lol.

Arctic wind heals for 10% of your hp in pvp. Wow.

Can't believe that I have to explain this but burst heal is still better than a HoT that takes 8 seconds to complete. Especially when that burst heal has its own HoT attached to it, does damage, and has a stun at the end. I mean, are you actually serious? You think dark cloak is better than arctic blast? Because that's what I'm comparing it to. Come on now.

Dracane

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

SupremeRissole wrote: »

make dark cloak heal to highest stats, this will make magblade, tankblade and non stealth stamblade better

Agreed. So many people complain about shadowy disguise being OP but ZoS's other option is honestly a terrible alternate morph that doesn't do much if you're under 45k health and in PvP it's not great either after battle spirit. Plus minor protection isn't what it used to be. Do I use dark cloak? Yes, but because it's that or shadowy and I'm not looking for the "invisible" play style. It certainly needs a buff to be in line with every other classes heal. Every time i swap to my warden with arctic blast that has a 12k tool tip burst heal plus HoT plus damage plus stun, my NB cries a little lol.

Arctic wind heals for 10% of your hp in pvp. Wow.

Can't believe that I have to explain this but burst heal is still better than a HoT that takes 8 seconds to complete. Especially when that burst heal has its own HoT attached to it, does damage, and has a stun at the end. I mean, are you actually serious? You think dark cloak is better than arctic blast? Because that's what I'm comparing it to. Come on now.

No, I do not think that. I think I made it unclear.
I meant to criticize that you use arctic wind as a comparison to cloak. Even though arctic wind is not even that great as a heal compared to many other heals in existence. It's a fancy ability with everything it does, but the burst heal is absurdly pathetic in reality.

Alchimiste1

Dracane wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

SupremeRissole wrote: »

make dark cloak heal to highest stats, this will make magblade, tankblade and non stealth stamblade better

Agreed. So many people complain about shadowy disguise being OP but ZoS's other option is honestly a terrible alternate morph that doesn't do much if you're under 45k health and in PvP it's not great either after battle spirit. Plus minor protection isn't what it used to be. Do I use dark cloak? Yes, but because it's that or shadowy and I'm not looking for the "invisible" play style. It certainly needs a buff to be in line with every other classes heal. Every time i swap to my warden with arctic blast that has a 12k tool tip burst heal plus HoT plus damage plus stun, my NB cries a little lol.

Arctic wind heals for 10% of your hp in pvp. Wow.

1.3k tooltip on the hot. Its noticeable.
Don't forget the 11k tooltip burst heal or the unblockable aoe stun
or the fact that it can proc chilled giving the warden 10% more crit damage.


10% of your max HP ? if you mean the burst heal I don't know how you are getting it to only heal you so little. If you mean the hot attached to it 10% of your max hp would be insane lol

Play the class then. It heals for 3,9k for my boyfriend with 35k health and heavy armor. Who looks at healing tooltips in pvp with battlespirit in place? Pointless.

With heavy, it heals for roughly 11,5% of your max health. It is not strong at all. Honor the dead heals for 5,5k with the same gear and stats as we tested last night. That also refunds almost all its cost. And here you are complaining about arctic wind.

stamden is one of my most played classes. I know for a fact it doesn't heal me for only 3.9k

Dracane

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

SupremeRissole wrote: »

make dark cloak heal to highest stats, this will make magblade, tankblade and non stealth stamblade better

Agreed. So many people complain about shadowy disguise being OP but ZoS's other option is honestly a terrible alternate morph that doesn't do much if you're under 45k health and in PvP it's not great either after battle spirit. Plus minor protection isn't what it used to be. Do I use dark cloak? Yes, but because it's that or shadowy and I'm not looking for the "invisible" play style. It certainly needs a buff to be in line with every other classes heal. Every time i swap to my warden with arctic blast that has a 12k tool tip burst heal plus HoT plus damage plus stun, my NB cries a little lol.

Arctic wind heals for 10% of your hp in pvp. Wow.

1.3k tooltip on the hot. Its noticeable.
Don't forget the 11k tooltip burst heal or the unblockable aoe stun
or the fact that it can proc chilled giving the warden 10% more crit damage.


10% of your max HP ? if you mean the burst heal I don't know how you are getting it to only heal you so little. If you mean the hot attached to it 10% of your max hp would be insane lol

Play the class then. It heals for 3,9k for my boyfriend with 35k health and heavy armor. Who looks at healing tooltips in pvp with battlespirit in place? Pointless.

With heavy, it heals for roughly 11,5% of your max health. It is not strong at all. Honor the dead heals for 5,5k with the same gear and stats as we tested last night. That also refunds almost all its cost. And here you are complaining about arctic wind.

stamden is one of my most played classes. I know for a fact it doesn't heal me for only 3.9k

Maybe you play in CP and who knows what you have. But the actual fact is, that arctic wind is one of the weakest burstheals in the game. We compared it to templar, necro and dk with the same gear etc. and arctic wind was by far the weakest of them all.

Warden has overpowered stuff, arctic wind is certainly none of them. But then look at shimmering shield, with a tooltip so high, that no player in pvp could ever breech it.

Doczy

dude arctic blast has insta heal - hot- dot- stun

and im %90 sure it's healing more than dark cloak in total.

10k insta heal 1k hot per second with 1.5k dot per second and aoe stun

2k hot per second with minor protection

Ryuvain

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

SupremeRissole wrote: »

make dark cloak heal to highest stats, this will make magblade, tankblade and non stealth stamblade better

Agreed. So many people complain about shadowy disguise being OP but ZoS's other option is honestly a terrible alternate morph that doesn't do much if you're under 45k health and in PvP it's not great either after battle spirit. Plus minor protection isn't what it used to be. Do I use dark cloak? Yes, but because it's that or shadowy and I'm not looking for the "invisible" play style. It certainly needs a buff to be in line with every other classes heal. Every time i swap to my warden with arctic blast that has a 12k tool tip burst heal plus HoT plus damage plus stun, my NB cries a little lol.

Arctic wind heals for 10% of your hp in pvp. Wow.

1.3k tooltip on the hot. Its noticeable.
Don't forget the 11k tooltip burst heal or the unblockable aoe stun
or the fact that it can proc chilled giving the warden 10% more crit damage.


10% of your max HP ? if you mean the burst heal I don't know how you are getting it to only heal you so little. If you mean the hot attached to it 10% of your max hp would be insane lol

Arctic blast, yet another point to why everyone plays warden in pvp.

Dracane

Doczy wrote: »

dude arctic blast has insta heal - hot- dot- stun

and im %90 sure it's healing more than dark cloak in total.

10k insta heal 1k hot per second with 1.5k dot per second and aoe stun

2k hot per second with minor protection

This changes nothing, however. To compare dark cloak to arctic blast in the first place, was strange. Because arctic blast is significantly weaker than any other burst heal we compared it to.

Dark cloak is not even a burst heal, hence comparing the 2 is pointless. Nightblade has a lot of healing over time with dark cloak, swallow soul, recovery strikes and whatever else it chooses. But the difference is, that Nightblade is also a class with mobility that can just phase through walls and objects with its shade.

Giving such a class a burst heal on top of that would be rather insane.
Just like it was totally unnecessary to give Sorcerer the twilight heal. Well, that was a pve healer change primarily. But still, who would give a class with mobility and a shield to avoid some damage, a burstheal? Luckily it is gated behind an ability that costs 2 slots and can be killed. Nonsense nontheless.

A burstheal can be given to magblade only under the condition that it goes on dark cloak, so they can not go invis and burst heal, that shade is fixed to no longer allow exploiting through walls and that it is ensured that it scales with magicka, as to not give stamblades a burstheal outside of rally.

Doczy

yea.
2.5k dark cloak
3000-3500 swallow
1.5k siphon
4k resto heal in theory and tooltip

in reality 800-1k dark cloak
1-1.5k swallow
700-800 siphon strike
2k resto heal

optimal 5k heal. and you need to press dark cloak siphon resto and swallow skills and a light attack for get them

at that time any other player can hit 10k damage to you

Iki

Doczy wrote: »

yea.
2.5k dark cloak
3000-3500 swallow
1.5k siphon
4k resto heal in theory and tooltip

in reality 800-1k dark cloak
1-1.5k swallow
700-800 siphon strike
2k resto heal

optimal 5k heal. and you need to press dark cloak siphon resto and swallow skills and a light attack for get them

at that time any other player can hit 10k damage to you

Why would you use dark cloak if your build does not have enough health to make hp-scaling heal worth a slot?
Also, nightblade class doesn`t have burst-heal like other classes do, because nb was designed to be stealthy and evasive class that avoids burst instead of tanking and outhealing it. That`s why you have skills like shadowy disguise and shadow image. Nightblade was simply designed to play and survive differently than other classes. So please don`t just look at something like healing-output, compare it to other classes and act like nb needs buffs, need to look at the whole tool-kit class got and what kind of survivability-potential it provides. And in pve many classes even envy magblades self-healing potential..

Dracane

Iki wrote: »

Doczy wrote: »

yea.
2.5k dark cloak
3000-3500 swallow
1.5k siphon
4k resto heal in theory and tooltip

in reality 800-1k dark cloak
1-1.5k swallow
700-800 siphon strike
2k resto heal

optimal 5k heal. and you need to press dark cloak siphon resto and swallow skills and a light attack for get them

at that time any other player can hit 10k damage to you

Why would you use dark cloak if your build does not have enough health to make hp-scaling heal worth a slot?
Also, nightblade class doesn`t have burst-heal like other classes do, because nb was designed to be stealthy and evasive class that avoids burst instead of tanking and outhealing it. That`s why you have skills like shadowy disguise and shadow image. Nightblade was simply designed to play and survive differently than other classes. So please don`t just look at something like healing-output, compare it to other classes and act like nb needs buffs, need to look at the whole tool-kit class got and what kind of survivability-potential it provides. And in pve many classes even envy magblades self-healing potential..

Just my point. Nightblade has different tools and in pve, they are superstars because of the healing they have built in everywhere without losing offense. One reason why nightblades also reign all solo content there.

I think Nightblades can survive just fine when played half decent. Most nightblades just do not even use their shade, which is their single most op thing. When encountering and fighting nightblades who do not use shade and those who actually do, the difference is massive.

Where non-shade blades are usually average, those using the shade are often one of the hardest things to kill.

Doczy

Iki wrote: »

Doczy wrote: »

yea.
2.5k dark cloak
3000-3500 swallow
1.5k siphon
4k resto heal in theory and tooltip

in reality 800-1k dark cloak
1-1.5k swallow
700-800 siphon strike
2k resto heal

optimal 5k heal. and you need to press dark cloak siphon resto and swallow skills and a light attack for get them

at that time any other player can hit 10k damage to you

Why would you use dark cloak if your build does not have enough health to make hp-scaling heal worth a slot?
Also, nightblade class doesn`t have burst-heal like other classes do, because nb was designed to be stealthy and evasive class that avoids burst instead of tanking and outhealing it. That`s why you have skills like shadowy disguise and shadow image. Nightblade was simply designed to play and survive differently than other classes. So please don`t just look at something like healing-output, compare it to other classes and act like nb needs buffs, need to look at the whole tool-kit class got and what kind of survivability-potential it provides. And in pve many classes even envy magblades self-healing potential..

unfortunately we have amazing broken cloak . even rats can break it. and our burst is really weak . especially amazing useless merciless. you need to do 5 light attacks for activate it and landing it to target is very very hard. cuz most of enemies in pvp is stamina user with infinite roll dodges.

so we cant be stealth and high bursty.

and i dont care about pve. pvp and pve are seperated contents.

QuebraRegra

leave SAP ESSENCE the F alone!

Brrrofski

Burst that's super easy to telegraph.

Designed to be played at range but has melee ultimate.

Crappy class heals force you into resto backbar.

They're the main issues.

I play it, and after about an hour realise it's just a rubbish mag sorc. Just play mag sorc, or stam NB if you want to play NB. Both are vastly superior.

I still do enjoy playing it though, and getting kills is really rewarding.

And whoever think artic blast is a crap heal is playing a different game. Comparing it to other self heals with the same gear is null and void when the warden meta is have 40k health and stack procs.

Health based burst heals is the reason PvP is overrun with wardens and werewolves.

the1andonlyskwex

Brrrofski wrote: »

Designed to be played at range

Where exactly are you getting this impression?

A huge number of Nightblade skills are designed around operating at melee range:
Death Stroke
Assassin's Blade, unless morphed
Teleport Strike
Grim Focus, heals if used in melee range
Veiled Strike, melee spammable
Twisting Path, you only get the buff if you stand in the AoE
Aspect of Terror
Drain Power

You could even argue that Blur, Shadow Image, and Cripple are also more useful for characters that primarily focus on melee.

The only class that's more melee oriented than Nightblade is Dragonknight.

itscompton

Dracane wrote: »

Nightblade really is not lacking in terms of damage.
If they should really get a burst heal on top of cloak and shadexploiting through walls, then this burst heal should at least be added to dark cloak, so they can not have invisibility and a burst heal at once.

I never found decently built magicka nightblades to be lacking when it comes to survivability.
What annoys me the most, is how slow assassin's will is (bow). It almost never hits and needs its minimum travel time removed, as do all ranged attacks. Why do ranged builds get punished so much for going into melee range?

What annoys me about this skill is you have to do so much work to build it up during a fight and if the enemy dies before you use the proc it just disappears and you have to start all over again even though you're still in combat and there are other enemies in range. Meanwhile the equivalent skill on Sorcs, Wardens and Necros simply has delay for damage after casting, which is actually beneficial because it allows for a timed burst.

the1andonlyskwex

itscompton wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Nightblade really is not lacking in terms of damage.
If they should really get a burst heal on top of cloak and shadexploiting through walls, then this burst heal should at least be added to dark cloak, so they can not have invisibility and a burst heal at once.

I never found decently built magicka nightblades to be lacking when it comes to survivability.
What annoys me the most, is how slow assassin's will is (bow). It almost never hits and needs its minimum travel time removed, as do all ranged attacks. Why do ranged builds get punished so much for going into melee range?

What annoys me about this skill is you have to do so much work to build it up during a fight and if the enemy dies before you use the proc it just disappears and you have to start all over again even though you're still in combat and there are other enemies in range. Meanwhile the equivalent skill on Sorcs, Wardens and Necros simply has delay for damage after casting, which is actually beneficial because it allows for a timed burst.

Uh, that's not how Assassin's Will works at all. You cast Merciless Resolve on yourself and it just counts light attacks against any target. You never need to start over if your target dies.

Heck, on live right now (on PS4 at least), the counter doesn't even reset if you let Merciless Resolve expire without casting Assassin's Will, so if that happens you can cast Merciless Resolve and have Assassin's Will ready to go right away.

JayKwellen

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Designed to be played at range

Where exactly are you getting this impression?

A huge number of Nightblade skills are designed around operating at melee range:
Death Stroke
Assassin's Blade, unless morphed
Teleport Strike
Grim Focus, heals if used in melee range
Veiled Strike, melee spammable
Twisting Path, you only get the buff if you stand in the AoE
Aspect of Terror
Drain Power

You could even argue that Blur, Shadow Image, and Cripple are also more useful for characters that primarily focus on melee.

The only class that's more melee oriented than Nightblade is Dragonknight.

That was the original design, yes. For magicka in particular the "melee magicka" theme is obvious.

Speaking from a PvP perspective - as the game changed and the classes evolved (stealth) magblades got left behind, and now exist in a weird spot where it has all these abilities made for melee range, but lacks the survivability to actually do anything in melee range.

So instead many lean into pure ganking now, because it's it's really one of the few viable playstyles left. Real open world non-ganking type builds are exceedingly rare, and it's even more rare to find someone decent at it.

It's plain to see that magblades are supposed to jump in, do their thing, and then jump out. It's why they have the ability to teleport in and then directly back out. Why they have a single target snare, a melee range ulti, CC, and spammable. But this just doesn't work anymore.

Everyone is so tanky now that unless you go full gank you're not killing anyone in that short window. Even if you have your shot your ultimate and your burst are so incredibly slow that anyone with thumbs can avoid 100% of your damage. If for any reason you get boxed in by a necro or a Warden you're dead, the only option you have is to shade away. But shading out over and over isn't going to win you a fight, and soul harvest + spectral bow isn't going to win you any fights either against anyone who knows how to dodgeroll or block. Prolonged fights aren't what magblades are made for, and the resource strain of constantly shading and cloaking (and its required to constantly do both if you want to survive) far outpaces what anyone else is required to do.

Simply put, magblades were made for a game that simply doesn't exist anymore. If they ever were to be viable again the ability to play a siphoning/attrition/healing through damage playstyle again would have to be made actually possible. Unfortunately ZOS has only ever shown that they have no idea what they're trying to do with the class and/or have no understanding of how it plays or what it's problems are, so I honestly don't ever expect to see anything improve.

Vermintide

Sure PVE magblade is fine, great even. But PVP magblade is absolutely trash. If you're a PVE player in here saying "hurr magblade is fine", please don't give your opinion where you are so poorly informed.

The primary weakness is a) survivability, b) EVERY SINGLE SKILL can be dodged, c) stealth is broken and buggy af.

On paper the damage numbers are fine. But no other class can have it's ENTIRE offensive output negated like that, and it's a huge weakness. The lack of survivability would be fine too, but the list of things that break stealth is about as long as an Elder Scroll in itself. The result is a class that is often a sitting duck, and in a lot of cases simply can't even fight back.

DT-ARR

JayKwellen wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Designed to be played at range

Where exactly are you getting this impression?

A huge number of Nightblade skills are designed around operating at melee range:
Death Stroke
Assassin's Blade, unless morphed
Teleport Strike
Grim Focus, heals if used in melee range
Veiled Strike, melee spammable
Twisting Path, you only get the buff if you stand in the AoE
Aspect of Terror
Drain Power

You could even argue that Blur, Shadow Image, and Cripple are also more useful for characters that primarily focus on melee.

The only class that's more melee oriented than Nightblade is Dragonknight.

That was the original design, yes. For magicka in particular the "melee magicka" theme is obvious.

Speaking from a PvP perspective - as the game changed and the classes evolved (stealth) magblades got left behind, and now exist in a weird spot where it has all these abilities made for melee range, but lacks the survivability to actually do anything in melee range.

So instead many lean into pure ganking now, because it's it's really one of the few viable playstyles left. Real open world non-ganking type builds are exceedingly rare, and it's even more rare to find someone decent at it.

It's plain to see that magblades are supposed to jump in, do their thing, and then jump out. It's why they have the ability to teleport in and then directly back out. Why they have a single target snare, a melee range ulti, CC, and spammable. But this just doesn't work anymore.

Everyone is so tanky now that unless you go full gank you're not killing anyone in that short window. Even if you have your shot your ultimate and your burst are so incredibly slow that anyone with thumbs can avoid 100% of your damage. If for any reason you get boxed in by a necro or a Warden you're dead, the only option you have is to shade away. But shading out over and over isn't going to win you a fight, and soul harvest + spectral bow isn't going to win you any fights either against anyone who knows how to dodgeroll or block. Prolonged fights aren't what magblades are made for, and the resource strain of constantly shading and cloaking (and its required to constantly do both if you want to survive) far outpaces what anyone else is required to do.

Simply put, magblades were made for a game that simply doesn't exist anymore. If they ever were to be viable again the ability to play a siphoning/attrition/healing through damage playstyle again would have to be made actually possible. Unfortunately ZOS has only ever shown that they have no idea what they're trying to do with the class and/or have no understanding of how it plays or what it's problems are, so I honestly don't ever expect to see anything improve.

^^ This 100%

The only thing you left out is combining the changes to the rest of the game with the straight gutting/nerfing of virtually every magNB skill throughout the years that made the style viable back in the day.

Seriously i challenge people to go look at a skill description list from 2017 and compare to today. Whats left is nothing but a broken shell.

This is the problem with “standardization” when devs forget that magNB’s were intended to engage in a non-standard style of play.

xI_The_Owl_Ix

DT-ARR wrote: »

JayKwellen wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Designed to be played at range

Where exactly are you getting this impression?

A huge number of Nightblade skills are designed around operating at melee range:
Death Stroke
Assassin's Blade, unless morphed
Teleport Strike
Grim Focus, heals if used in melee range
Veiled Strike, melee spammable
Twisting Path, you only get the buff if you stand in the AoE
Aspect of Terror
Drain Power

You could even argue that Blur, Shadow Image, and Cripple are also more useful for characters that primarily focus on melee.

The only class that's more melee oriented than Nightblade is Dragonknight.

That was the original design, yes. For magicka in particular the "melee magicka" theme is obvious.

Speaking from a PvP perspective - as the game changed and the classes evolved (stealth) magblades got left behind, and now exist in a weird spot where it has all these abilities made for melee range, but lacks the survivability to actually do anything in melee range.

So instead many lean into pure ganking now, because it's it's really one of the few viable playstyles left. Real open world non-ganking type builds are exceedingly rare, and it's even more rare to find someone decent at it.

It's plain to see that magblades are supposed to jump in, do their thing, and then jump out. It's why they have the ability to teleport in and then directly back out. Why they have a single target snare, a melee range ulti, CC, and spammable. But this just doesn't work anymore.

Everyone is so tanky now that unless you go full gank you're not killing anyone in that short window. Even if you have your shot your ultimate and your burst are so incredibly slow that anyone with thumbs can avoid 100% of your damage. If for any reason you get boxed in by a necro or a Warden you're dead, the only option you have is to shade away. But shading out over and over isn't going to win you a fight, and soul harvest + spectral bow isn't going to win you any fights either against anyone who knows how to dodgeroll or block. Prolonged fights aren't what magblades are made for, and the resource strain of constantly shading and cloaking (and its required to constantly do both if you want to survive) far outpaces what anyone else is required to do.

Simply put, magblades were made for a game that simply doesn't exist anymore. If they ever were to be viable again the ability to play a siphoning/attrition/healing through damage playstyle again would have to be made actually possible. Unfortunately ZOS has only ever shown that they have no idea what they're trying to do with the class and/or have no understanding of how it plays or what it's problems are, so I honestly don't ever expect to see anything improve.

^^ This 100%

The only thing you left out is combining the changes to the rest of the game with the straight gutting/nerfing of virtually every magNB skill throughout the years that made the style viable back in the day.

Seriously i challenge people to go look at a skill description list from 2017 and compare to today. Whats left is nothing but a broken shell.

This is the problem with “standardization” when devs forget that magNB’s were intended to engage in a non-standard style of play.

NB skills are just gutted at this point. Almost every skill only does one single thing while the class skills other classes do several things and proc passives and what not. MagNb is really bad and I wish ZoS would do something.

Joy_Division

Joinovikova wrote: »

Doczy wrote: »

Hello my magblade friends. we are in agony in long time. But we need to unite. we need to show our strength to developers.

They need to learn we are not slaves, we wont accept our fate or their forces to play another class. We are paying their salary. We are paying money of little hamsters food who tries hard to power the server.

I have few ideas for make magblade better. I think you will agree with me.We want justice. Not an advantage to other classes.

*First of all we want to get our major sorcery and major brutality from siphoning strikes and morphs . Not from useless sap essence and morphs.

*Make new visual for mark target like weakness to elements

*Add offensive penetration to grim focus and morphs and all buffs stays for 3-5 seconds after abilty used. and make it faster for landing.

*Add Minor Prophecy to Hemorrhage passive

*Make dark cloaks heals scale to magicka or %x per second

*%35 heal for 4 seconds + minor mending for 4 seconds to swallow soul

*İnsta-dot for cripple

*and 0 cast time to soul harvest . Its not aoe its not cc so why it still have cast time?


I know we are unhappy about our tier in pvp. Magblade class is lowest tier in PVP for long time. Because we are not showing our hand to them.

you can add your ideas and discuss so they can realize again there is a lot of magblade players.

And my last call. Lets cancel our subs if they still ignores us. So they can continue to play with their favorite classes.

mag nb is not lowest tier at least in pvp

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/557210/pvp-tierlist-for-markarth#latest

EU must have a lot of sucky stam DKs. The class is meh, but it's ultimate is fantastic and is noticeably more dangerous opponent than a Mag NB.

I think Else's tier list is a more accurate.

JayKwellen

Joy_Division wrote: »

I think Else's tier list is a more accurate.

Yes because he actually tried to rank classes on their merits, not their ability to serve as proc delivery vehicles.

itscompton

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Nightblade really is not lacking in terms of damage.
If they should really get a burst heal on top of cloak and shadexploiting through walls, then this burst heal should at least be added to dark cloak, so they can not have invisibility and a burst heal at once.

I never found decently built magicka nightblades to be lacking when it comes to survivability.
What annoys me the most, is how slow assassin's will is (bow). It almost never hits and needs its minimum travel time removed, as do all ranged attacks. Why do ranged builds get punished so much for going into melee range?

What annoys me about this skill is you have to do so much work to build it up during a fight and if the enemy dies before you use the proc it just disappears and you have to start all over again even though you're still in combat and there are other enemies in range. Meanwhile the equivalent skill on Sorcs, Wardens and Necros simply has delay for damage after casting, which is actually beneficial because it allows for a timed burst.

Uh, that's not how Assassin's Will works at all. You cast Merciless Resolve on yourself and it just counts light attacks against any target. You never need to start over if your target dies.

Heck, on live right now (on PS4 at least), the counter doesn't even reset if you let Merciless Resolve expire without casting Assassin's Will, so if that happens you can cast Merciless Resolve and have Assassin's Will ready to go right away.

You must not PvP much.

Luckylancer

Iki wrote: »

Also, nightblade class doesn`t have burst-heal like other classes do, because nb was designed to be stealthy and evasive class that avoids burst instead of tanking and outhealing it. That`s why you have skills like shadowy disguise and shadow image. Nightblade was simply designed to play and survive differently than other classes. So please don`t just look at something like healing-output, compare it to other classes and act like nb needs buffs, need to look at the whole tool-kit class got and what kind of survivability-potential it provides. And in pve many classes even envy magblades self-healing potential..

That is why stamblades run rally instead of more "evasive" forward momentum alternative.
Note: you gonna take 20% increased damage from my next comments for 6 seconds

OP demands would reignate WW1 if they were forced on Germany. But magblades deserve a burst heal all other classes - including stamblade - enjoy for ages.

SshadowSscale

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Nightblade really is not lacking in terms of damage.
If they should really get a burst heal on top of cloak and shadexploiting through walls, then this burst heal should at least be added to dark cloak, so they can not have invisibility and a burst heal at once.

I never found decently built magicka nightblades to be lacking when it comes to survivability.
What annoys me the most, is how slow assassin's will is (bow). It almost never hits and needs its minimum travel time removed, as do all ranged attacks. Why do ranged builds get punished so much for going into melee range?

What annoys me about this skill is you have to do so much work to build it up during a fight and if the enemy dies before you use the proc it just disappears and you have to start all over again even though you're still in combat and there are other enemies in range. Meanwhile the equivalent skill on Sorcs, Wardens and Necros simply has delay for damage after casting, which is actually beneficial because it allows for a timed burst.

Uh, that's not how Assassin's Will works at all. You cast Merciless Resolve on yourself and it just counts light attacks against any target. You never need to start over if your target dies.

Heck, on live right now (on PS4 at least), the counter doesn't even reset if you let Merciless Resolve expire without casting Assassin's Will, so if that happens you can cast Merciless Resolve and have Assassin's Will ready to go right away.

News flash incase you mist it.... a while ago zos made it so it would keep count in pve after it expired but in pvp if it expired you have to start over.... this was done so that nbs cannot just go to the nearest mob and arm Assassins will and then go gank some poor soul afterwards with it.... not trying to be rude but please inform yourself or at least test what you are planning on saying before posting to prevent the spread of miss information......
Also why the hell are people so against nag blades getting a self heal?.... "oh but night blades would be op with a self heal"...... really.... are you serious we are not asking for a heal for stamblades... They already have access to 2 heals wich can be really strong aka vigor and rally.... if they do not want to use a 2 hander they still have access to vigor.... yet msgblades are stuck with restroom staff heals wich for some reason always..... and I mean ALWAYS goes to you ally with 99% hp left meanwhile your over here with 10% hp trying to stay alive because cloak broke for not reason at all for the 20th time and you have no stamina left to dodge roll because you dodged once or twice and had to cc break once..... Seriously how can you keep denying magblade a self heal while stambalde roams the world with no problems at all and your reason for not allowing magblade a heal is because "NiGhTbLaDe WiTh a HeAl Is Op".... honestly we are not asking for the best heal in the game we are merely asking for some scraps.... and then we keep getting denied it does not have to be a burst it can be a dot hell make it scale of health if that makes you happy but for the love of all things can we please just please get a small bone thrown over to us for once after years and years of nerf after nerf.

Sahidom

Doczy wrote: »

Hello my magblade friends. we are in agony in long time. But we need to unite. we need to show our strength to developers.

They need to learn we are not slaves, we wont accept our fate or their forces to play another class. We are paying their salary. We are paying money of little hamsters food who tries hard to power the server.

I have few ideas for make magblade better. I think you will agree with me.We want justice. Not an advantage to other classes.

*First of all we want to get our major sorcery and major brutality from siphoning strikes and morphs . Not from useless sap essence and morphs.

*Make new visual for mark target like weakness to elements

*Add offensive penetration to grim focus and morphs and all buffs stays for 3-5 seconds after abilty used. and make it faster for landing.

*Add Minor Prophecy to Hemorrhage passive

*Make dark cloaks heals scale to magicka or %x per second

*%35 heal for 4 seconds + minor mending for 4 seconds to swallow soul

*İnsta-dot for cripple

*and 0 cast time to soul harvest . Its not aoe its not cc so why it still have cast time?


I know we are unhappy about our tier in pvp. Magblade class is lowest tier in PVP for long time. Because we are not showing our hand to them.

you can add your ideas and discuss so they can realize again there is a lot of magblade players.

And my last call. Lets cancel our subs if they still ignores us. So they can continue to play with their favorite classes.

Have Conceal Weapons be non-reflectable and cannot be silenced. Same for the Eviscerate skill under the vampiric skill line. Conceal Weapons needs the same perk advantages, as other melee skills.

Have Impale execute begin at 50% to align with other execute abilities. Even the Flame Pulsar execute begins when a target drops below 50% health. (Edited) And Impale (and all morphs) should not be reflectable or silenced.

Banana

Still waiting on a class change to try one