Is Eso secretly dying?

idk

The_Old_Goat wrote: »

idk wrote: »

delenn35 wrote: »

Is ESO secretly dying???

Hell. To. Tha. No.

It's a secret.

Shhhh! Mums the word!

I don't know what your talking about.

ArchMikem

Planetside 2 looks a TON worse than ESO visually. Sure it has pretty particle effects but the Terrain and texture detail was given just enough effort to suit the needs, yet that MMO is still popular and even gaining traction with the recent Warpgate update, and that game is 8 yrs old?

ESO is still very pretty when it wants to be, but its visual stability is limited by the Engine used. Someone's rtx 3090 isnt gonna do anything to fix crashing or fps drops. But with its flaws it's still an enjoyable experience. The only title in my history of gaming that's kept me coming back for 5 years.

....damn, it's been 5 yrs since I found Tamriel Unlimited at Gamestop.

Doczy

go to cyrodil and look how many people in there. you will find the answer

FENGRUSH

Stamicka wrote: »

I think it’s complicated. The answer depends on what you are doing. As a whole, the game is very much alive. However, from an end game perspective, the game is very dead. There are various reasons to play the game, but I think that those who play to master the combat system, whether in PVE or PVP, are dying out.

There’s a large portion of the game that requires little to no combat at all such as housing, trading, scrying, just flat out adventuring, fishing, sight seeing, and even questing. The players that can enjoy these types of things will love the game and stick around. I think that these elements of the game are very well done, although a bit boring in my opinion.

On the other side of the game there’s the portion that allows you to build your skills with the ESO combat system. If you fall into this category then ESO is definitely dying. These are the pvpers and the end game raiders. Unfortunately I fall into this category, and the vast majority of my friends have quit ESO. I have also noticed that the top end PVE guilds have disbanded completely. There used to be a time where multiple top end pve guilds competed for new records, and PvP ball groups and players competed with one another. As time has went on this has completely died out due to constant combat changes or performance issues. There are very few end game players left, and even fewer that have played since the earlier days of ESO. So yes, this portion of ESO is dying very quickly, but overall ESO probably gains more players than they lose.

TLDR; ESO is not dying in the sense that the player base is shrinking, but it is dying in a competitive sense.

This accurately answers the question of this thread.

Vevvev

ArchMikem wrote: »

Planetside 2 looks a TON worse than ESO visually. Sure it has pretty particle effects but the Terrain and texture detail was given just enough effort to suit the needs, yet that MMO is still popular and even gaining traction with the recent Warpgate update, and that game is 8 yrs old?

ESO is still very pretty when it wants to be, but its visual stability is limited by the Engine used. Someone's rtx 3090 isnt gonna do anything to fix crashing or fps drops. But with its flaws it's still an enjoyable experience. The only title in my history of gaming that's kept me coming back for 5 years.

....damn, it's been 5 yrs since I found Tamriel Unlimited at Gamestop.

Love how you brought in Planetside 2 because I keep comparing ESO's Cyrodiil gameplay to it. Even with Planetside 2's old game engine they make PVP run smooth no matter how high up you scale the fight. Even with multiple 100+ people battles across the entire map with physics based vehicles, projectiles with collision detection, and player made bases similar to ESO housing it still runs fast with great server performance.

Its performance is what I dream Cyrodiil should have, and I really hope the devs find a fix to the issue next year and stay true to their letter they posted not too long ago.

JKorr

ImmortalCX wrote: »

1) the top eso streamer has only 10OK subs on youtube.

2) The year of performance changes was smoke and mirrors. The only meaningful addition to the game was new quest zone that looks and feels empty compared to the world it copied. Story feels very same. Their ability to make difficult technical changes is non existant. (The antiquity mini game is pretty simple and built on the bones of systems already in place.)

3) next generation games and graphics cards leave it in dust.

4) the world has moved on from mmos. MMO is a bad word these days.

5) cash shop games are usually a cash grab.

6) I'm still playing it, and I'm not that cool, usually means something is tragically unpopular, ime.

It feels like they are running it with a skeleton crew. Which I'm sure keeps shareholders happy somewhere. But it's not good for the game.

Before this game released, there were forums hosted on Bethesda's forum site. People who didn't like the fact there was going to be a sub, there was a war going on, there was limited pvp, and all the rest of kept insisting the game would crash and burn instantly on release. That the whole concept sucked. That they were just waiting for the "ESO killer game" to be released. Once that game came out no one would be left playing ESO. Name of the game? Wildstar.It had multiple open world pvp servers, and pve servers. It released June 2014 with a sub. In September of 2015 it went totally free to play. In 2016 they shut down the two pvp servers because they were so underpopulated, and merged them with the two remaining pve servers. In 2018 the servers were shut down.

I haven't paid that much attention, but I'm fairly sure there is a new "ESO killer" mmo out that everyone will instantly run to. After all, ESO has been dying since early release.

ImmortalCX

Vevvev wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Planetside 2 looks a TON worse than ESO visually. Sure it has pretty particle effects but the Terrain and texture detail was given just enough effort to suit the needs, yet that MMO is still popular and even gaining traction with the recent Warpgate update, and that game is 8 yrs old?

ESO is still very pretty when it wants to be, but its visual stability is limited by the Engine used. Someone's rtx 3090 isnt gonna do anything to fix crashing or fps drops. But with its flaws it's still an enjoyable experience. The only title in my history of gaming that's kept me coming back for 5 years.

....damn, it's been 5 yrs since I found Tamriel Unlimited at Gamestop.

Love how you brought in Planetside 2 because I keep comparing ESO's Cyrodiil gameplay to it. Even with Planetside 2's old game engine they make PVP run smooth no matter how high up you scale the fight. Even with multiple 100+ people battles across the entire map with physics based vehicles, projectiles with collision detection, and player made bases similar to ESO housing it still runs fast with great server performance.

Its performance is what I dream Cyrodiil should have, and I really hope the devs find a fix to the issue next year and stay true to their letter they posted not too long ago.

It seems like they could hire a team (3-5) of top software/networking engineers, pay them 250K/yr salary, fix the network problems, and make everyone happy.

Which is why it doesn't make sense. If the game is doing as well as they say it is, they could easily cover the manpower to fix end game performance.

Which means that either the code situtation is worse than imagined, that game designeers and pseudo-engineers have been monkeying with the code for six years and its a pile of spaghetti, or there are cultural problems, where they can't afford/pay the talent they need, because it would upset the applecart.

My guess is that the leadership team have a thin technical background, more in art and game design, and they do not recognize/award technical talent properly, which makes it unlikely for them to hire the people they need to fix it.

If you are a talented network developer, are you going to take a 100K salary just to be kicked around by some "art guy"? No, you will not.

And if the leadership team ("art guys") are making 150K salary, are they going to pay 250K/yr for the talent they need to fix this? No, they will not.

There is a problem. If the game is making the money they say it is, and if the subs have grown the way they say they have, they can afford to fix this. Yet they have not.

JKorr

Doczy wrote: »

go to cyrodil and look how many people in there. you will find the answer

Which answer? The one about how many people actually like super competitive pvp? Or the one about how many player avoid all pvp like its weaponized ebola because they aren't competitive and don't want to deal with the pvp mindset?

karekiz

ImmortalCX wrote: »

1) the top eso streamer has only 10OK subs on youtube.

2) The year of performance changes was smoke and mirrors. The only meaningful addition to the game was new quest zone that looks and feels empty compared to the world it copied. Story feels very same. Their ability to make difficult technical changes is non existant. (The antiquity mini game is pretty simple and built on the bones of systems already in place.)

3) next generation games and graphics cards leave it in dust.

4) the world has moved on from mmos. MMO is a bad word these days.

5) cash shop games are usually a cash grab.

6) I'm still playing it, and I'm not that cool, usually means something is tragically unpopular, ime.

It feels like they are running it with a skeleton crew. Which I'm sure keeps shareholders happy somewhere. But it's not good for the game.

None of thats relavent.

If the game STOPS producing content. Bugged or not. But actual content. THEN the game is dying.

We already know they have a new chapter in development and I assume DLC's too.

ImmortalCX

karekiz wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

1) the top eso streamer has only 10OK subs on youtube.

2) The year of performance changes was smoke and mirrors. The only meaningful addition to the game was new quest zone that looks and feels empty compared to the world it copied. Story feels very same. Their ability to make difficult technical changes is non existant. (The antiquity mini game is pretty simple and built on the bones of systems already in place.)

3) next generation games and graphics cards leave it in dust.

4) the world has moved on from mmos. MMO is a bad word these days.

5) cash shop games are usually a cash grab.

6) I'm still playing it, and I'm not that cool, usually means something is tragically unpopular, ime.

It feels like they are running it with a skeleton crew. Which I'm sure keeps shareholders happy somewhere. But it's not good for the game.

None of thats relavent.

If the game STOPS producing content. Bugged or not. But actual content. THEN the game is dying.

We already know they have a new chapter in development and I assume DLC's too.

I think the tldr; version of this thread and my posts is that they will not fix any of the end-game performance issues. When they say they will, they are lying or delusional (like a smoker who says he is going to quit but never does). The signs are that they are happy to run the game into the ground, the performance and game balance will continue to deteriorate, they will design occasional new maps and dungeons, thats it.

wishlist14

I dont want eso to die I've invested so much time and money and emotions into this game....i want 5 more years at least..im hoping for 10 😆

Starlight_Whisper

No but this patch was inexcusable bad.

zaria

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

3) next generation games and graphics cards leave it in dust.

Graphics dont make a good game. I can name you 20 AAA titles with insane graphics that are pure trash. ESO graphics are pretty fine, only some NPC models could see an overhaul because they look like old DAZ3D models.

But the game is not even close to being dead. There is a lot of activity ingame and it's actually more popular than it has ever been.

Truth is game performs pretty bad, has a myriad of bugs, Markarth broke it even more and ZOS team lacks the necessary skills to fix it's performance issues. Although 70% of the problems is purely due to the mediocre server capacity they pay for. Because when they expand it during specific events, lags, desyncs and skill delay magically all go away.

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Planetside 2 looks a TON worse than ESO visually. Sure it has pretty particle effects but the Terrain and texture detail was given just enough effort to suit the needs, yet that MMO is still popular and even gaining traction with the recent Warpgate update, and that game is 8 yrs old?

ESO is still very pretty when it wants to be, but its visual stability is limited by the Engine used. Someone's rtx 3090 isnt gonna do anything to fix crashing or fps drops. But with its flaws it's still an enjoyable experience. The only title in my history of gaming that's kept me coming back for 5 years.

....damn, it's been 5 yrs since I found Tamriel Unlimited at Gamestop.

Love how you brought in Planetside 2 because I keep comparing ESO's Cyrodiil gameplay to it. Even with Planetside 2's old game engine they make PVP run smooth no matter how high up you scale the fight. Even with multiple 100+ people battles across the entire map with physics based vehicles, projectiles with collision detection, and player made bases similar to ESO housing it still runs fast with great server performance.

Its performance is what I dream Cyrodiil should have, and I really hope the devs find a fix to the issue next year and stay true to their letter they posted not too long ago.

It seems like they could hire a team (3-5) of top software/networking engineers, pay them 250K/yr salary, fix the network problems, and make everyone happy.

Which is why it doesn't make sense. If the game is doing as well as they say it is, they could easily cover the manpower to fix end game performance.

Which means that either the code situtation is worse than imagined, that game designeers and pseudo-engineers have been monkeying with the code for six years and its a pile of spaghetti, or there are cultural problems, where they can't afford/pay the talent they need, because it would upset the applecart.

My guess is that the leadership team have a thin technical background, more in art and game design, and they do not recognize/award technical talent properly, which makes it unlikely for them to hire the people they need to fix it.

If you are a talented network developer, are you going to take a 100K salary just to be kicked around by some "art guy"? No, you will not.

And if the leadership team ("art guys") are making 150K salary, are they going to pay 250K/yr for the talent they need to fix this? No, they will not.

There is a problem. If the game is making the money they say it is, and if the subs have grown the way they say they have, they can afford to fix this. Yet they have not.

Not so easy, its multiple layers of issues on top of each others.
First is the server system, based around lots of cheap servers who works pretty well for overland, dungeons and bg and even trials as long as instances are spread out who has been issues for unknown reasons.
Except that login servers struggle as they tend to do in games none log into

However it fails in cyrodil in large fight as so much has to be done server side to avoid cheating.

And it ignores the client in the room and all now runs mounts and sets with particle effects and also proc sets, note ebon, worm and SPC are proc set.
Got to add more bling.

Almost all are running with setting who work nice overland out of combat while in Cyrodil and in trials.
Then we got the last dlc, it was called The Crashing, an 10% performance increase for an 99% stability reduction.
It looks like most of this issues has been solved at least on pc eu.
DO NOT REPEAT EVEN IF YOU HAVE TO DELAY AN CHAPTER 6 MONTHS.
Releasing the Reach on consoles who has weaker hardware after seeing the effect on pc was an crime.

slipciok

Hell, it's about time.

Iccotak

1. Performance needs to be addressed
2. End Game needs attention

Zenimax and Microsoft should invest in rectifying these issues.

For End Game not only does Performance need attention to improve the end game experience BUT the developers need to stop pushing end game into a corner and separating end game from the general experience.

The skill gap is so large because they do nothing to guide or encourage players from getting into dungeons and trials.

The Main Story that they market, gameplay wise, is only for one play style - super easy - and it doesn't offer engaging gameplay. I see it happen all the time where players (including myself) lose interest in the main narrative because it offers no challenge for something that is "The end of the world." the general questing enemies & bosses are also not challenging at all.

(Edit: I think WoW does a good job of getting players engaged by having the main story bosses as end game content because it offers something for everyone, I think that ESO can do something similar)

This is very different from dungeons, and now we have a rising issue of players who didn't spend anytime in dungeons, had no challenge in questing and so they run into too much difficulty because they are almost clueless about basic mechanics.

In other words Dungeons and Trials are the only places in the game where there is a sense of gameplay progression.

joerginger

I believe one of the problems between us and the company is that at least some of people like me who have spent money on this game after buying it may have done so under the erroneous assumption that the money in any way benefits the game or its players. It seems that all the money only goes into the owners' pockets and into the development of the mysterious new MMO ZOS is supposedly developing. The team in charge of this game doesn't seem either big or competent enough to fix any of the issues in a timely manner or at all.
Their inventiveness to permanently increase the monetization and constant recycling of content is quite impressive, though.

Doczy

JKorr wrote: »

Doczy wrote: »

go to cyrodil and look how many people in there. you will find the answer

Which answer? The one about how many people actually like super competitive pvp? Or the one about how many player avoid all pvp like its weaponized ebola because they aren't competitive and don't want to deal with the pvp mindset?

only few hours is pop locked. rest empty. a lot of players left game because of that meta.

casual friendly game is okay. but casual lover games always dies faster.

for example wow. they made game casual friendly to casual lover. and people left game. they removed abilities to 1-2 button classes. but know they realized their fault and a lot of players returned

idk

Iccotak wrote: »

Zenimax and Microsoft should invest in rectifying these issues.

Microsoft should not be investing anything into ESO. They do not own the game or Zenimax and will not for some time.

Shantu

I don't know if it's dying. There still appears to be a lot of money thrown at the crown store. Housing seems to be the more real end game. But IMO, new content feel stagnant. There's a sense of sameness, a lack of creativity and innovation, in lieu of a copy-and-paste approach at all levels. Nothing feels truly inspired. Even the new feels like a stale retread of the old. I mean there's only so many ways you can put stripes on a dog and call it a new animal. Combat development feels joyless and by-the-numbers. And promises of performance improvements have become pretty much of standing joke. If it's not dying, there's a sense it's definitely sick and headed that direction. Nothing lives forever.

BlueRaven

Miszou wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

4) the world has moved on from mmos. MMO is a bad word these days.

It has ? It is?

OMG, please tell me what the hot new trend is, so I can jump on it early.

“Battle Royale” 🙄

(Not a fan, personally.)

Chaos2088

Its growing more than its dying, we have this post come about once or twice a year since launch.

It does have major problems with retaining players due to performace, but eso is really good at getting new players.

Soon as it sorts out the performance and retains its players then win win.

Eso is going to be around for years and years.

ArchMikem

Vevvev wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Planetside 2 looks a TON worse than ESO visually. Sure it has pretty particle effects but the Terrain and texture detail was given just enough effort to suit the needs, yet that MMO is still popular and even gaining traction with the recent Warpgate update, and that game is 8 yrs old?

ESO is still very pretty when it wants to be, but its visual stability is limited by the Engine used. Someone's rtx 3090 isnt gonna do anything to fix crashing or fps drops. But with its flaws it's still an enjoyable experience. The only title in my history of gaming that's kept me coming back for 5 years.

....damn, it's been 5 yrs since I found Tamriel Unlimited at Gamestop.

Love how you brought in Planetside 2 because I keep comparing ESO's Cyrodiil gameplay to it. Even with Planetside 2's old game engine they make PVP run smooth no matter how high up you scale the fight. Even with multiple 100+ people battles across the entire map with physics based vehicles, projectiles with collision detection, and player made bases similar to ESO housing it still runs fast with great server performance.

Its performance is what I dream Cyrodiil should have, and I really hope the devs find a fix to the issue next year and stay true to their letter they posted not too long ago.

Oh I know, every time I'm in PS2 at a 96+ I cant fathom how theres still no latency or server lag to speak of. Going between that and Cyro PvP is like walking from the air conditioned airport into a brick wall of heat on a 100F day.

I know many would say Planetside isnt an appropriate comparison, but it's the only other MMO I have experience with.

Wolfpaw

Not til League of Legends & new LOTR mmorpg's come out...a few years away though.

Psiion

Greetings all,

After review, we have gone ahead and closed this thread down as it has derailed mostly into Conspiracy Theories and Misinformation which is non-constructive and against the Forum's Community Rules.

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