Is Eso secretly dying?

ImmortalCX

1) the top eso streamer has only 10OK subs on youtube.

2) The year of performance changes was smoke and mirrors. The only meaningful addition to the game was new quest zone that looks and feels empty compared to the world it copied. Story feels very same. Their ability to make difficult technical changes is non existant. (The antiquity mini game is pretty simple and built on the bones of systems already in place.)

3) next generation games and graphics cards leave it in dust.

4) the world has moved on from mmos. MMO is a bad word these days.

5) cash shop games are usually a cash grab.

6) I'm still playing it, and I'm not that cool, usually means something is tragically unpopular, ime.

It feels like they are running it with a skeleton crew. Which I'm sure keeps shareholders happy somewhere. But it's not good for the game.

VampireLordLover99

Yes. I feel like by this point it should be very obvious ESO is slowly and secretly dying.

It desperately needs to get performance and system on the same league as other MMOs and games in general.

The elder scrolls name is what is carrying this title. It would not have survived without being based in elder scrolls. And I fear the lack of being consistent from the devs might come to bite them if this next year's expansion doesn't fix anything or add anything truly meaningful.

Among my friends I know the gates of oblivion is the last hope they're putting in the game.

YstradClud

Doesn't feel like it on NA PC at least. Been doing Cyrodiil for the first time lately and even Blackreach was pretty active today. Not sure there were any streamers in there though. They are in Grey Host I assume. A lot of us were just sub cp 810 noobs in PvE builds.

ImmortalCX

VampireLordLover99 wrote: »

Yes. I feel like by this point it should be very obvious ESO is slowly and secretly dying.

It desperately needs to get performance and system on the same league as other MMOs and games in general.

The elder scrolls name is what is carrying this title. It would not have survived without being based in elder scrolls. And I fear the lack of being consistent from the devs might come to bite them if this next year's expansion doesn't fix anything or add anything truly meaningful.

Among my friends I know the gates of oblivion is the last hope they're putting in the game.

I remember that wow made some graphical enhancements to character models in order to stretch the lifecycle. I don't see anything comparable happening. The greymoor chapter lacked cutscenes and integrated storytelling like you would expect from a triple a game.

Its like the lights are still on, but most of the employees have left the building. It seems they have made the decision to milk what they have, keep running old events (only change this year...a new quest giver in the tent. ) Two years of indriks. Same old. They aren't even trying to inject new life into it.

Only new thing was antiquities, but that's pretty simple.

Kiralyn2000

ImmortalCX wrote: »

1) the top eso streamer has only 10OK subs on youtube.

2) The year of performance changes was smoke and mirrors. The only meaningful addition to the game was new quest zone that looks and feels empty compared to the world it copied. Story feels very same. Their ability to make difficult technical changes is non existant. (The antiquity mini game is pretty simple and built on the bones of systems already in place.)

3) next generation games and graphics cards leave it in dust.

4) the world has moved on from mmos. MMO is a bad word these days.

5) cash shop games are usually a cash grab.

6) I'm still playing it, and I'm not that cool, usually means something is tragically unpopular, ime.

Only one of those that might have any basis is that the performance improvements haven't worked. The rest is opinions (cash shop = cash grab; world doesn't like MMOs; graphics) or silly.

Miszou

ImmortalCX wrote: »

4) the world has moved on from mmos. MMO is a bad word these days.

It has ? It is?

OMG, please tell me what the hot new trend is, so I can jump on it early.

Rukia541

ESO seems to be of the 1 rare MMO that gains new players more than loses them, maybe FF14 might be in that category as well. GW2/WoW seem to be far more dead or dying than ESO but still have steady population at least in the major farm areas.

I tried playing SL and while it was great at first with the higher dmg it felt like wotlk again but the grind is just impossible to keep up with so I doubt its population resurgence will last long, as usuall it will keep the no lifers and hardcore raiders/arena pvpers.

GW2 will see resurgence with cantha, but ESO gets far more content updates imo and I think thats why it loses less people . ESO also lets you do w/e the hell you want and is very easy to switch playstyle so it will always be an MMO ppl want with no major bs.

The performance issues harm the game a lot for example I haven't played in months but honestly no other MMO interest me so I am mostly just playing sp games and moba or fps until ZoS fixes the game. ESO is the best MMO thats why they should take the performance more seriously so we can all enjoy it and they're making it really hard to.

ImmortalCX

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

1) the top eso streamer has only 10OK subs on youtube.

2) The year of performance changes was smoke and mirrors. The only meaningful addition to the game was new quest zone that looks and feels empty compared to the world it copied. Story feels very same. Their ability to make difficult technical changes is non existant. (The antiquity mini game is pretty simple and built on the bones of systems already in place.)

3) next generation games and graphics cards leave it in dust.

4) the world has moved on from mmos. MMO is a bad word these days.

5) cash shop games are usually a cash grab.

6) I'm still playing it, and I'm not that cool, usually means something is tragically unpopular, ime.

Only one of those that might have any basis is that the performance improvements haven't worked. The rest is opinions (cash shop = cash grab; world doesn't like MMOs; graphics) or silly.

If it was fact, then this wouldn't be a discussion.

ImmortalCX

Rukia541 wrote: »

ESO seems to be of the 1 rare MMO that gains new players more than loses them, maybe FF14 might be in that category as well. GW2/WoW seem to be far more dead or dying than ESO but still have steady population at least in the major farm areas.

I tried playing SL and while it was great at first with the higher dmg it felt like wotlk again but the grind is just impossible to keep up with so I doubt its population resurgence will last long, as usuall it will keep the no lifers and hardcore raiders/arena pvpers.

GW2 will see resurgence with cantha, but ESO gets far more content updates imo and I think thats why it loses less people . ESO also lets you do w/e the hell you want and is very easy to switch playstyle so it will always be an MMO ppl want with no major bs.

The performance issues harm the game a lot for example I haven't played in months but honestly no other MMO interest me so I am mostly just playing sp games and moba or fps until ZoS fixes the game. ESO is the best MMO thats why they should take the performance more seriously so we can all enjoy it and they're making it really hard to.

The lack of deep technical changes is like they aren't even trying. Its like they know it's going to die and they have accepted it, no use throwing money at it.

Btw, how do you know they are gaining players?

Runefang

VampireLordLover99 wrote: »

Yes. I feel like by this point it should be very obvious ESO is slowly and secretly dying.

It desperately needs to get performance and system on the same league as other MMOs and games in general.

The elder scrolls name is what is carrying this title. It would not have survived without being based in elder scrolls. And I fear the lack of being consistent from the devs might come to bite them if this next year's expansion doesn't fix anything or add anything truly meaningful.

Among my friends I know the gates of oblivion is the last hope they're putting in the game.

I think it being a secret yet very obvious is saying two very different things

VampireLordLover99

Runefang wrote: »

VampireLordLover99 wrote: »

Yes. I feel like by this point it should be very obvious ESO is slowly and secretly dying.

It desperately needs to get performance and system on the same league as other MMOs and games in general.

The elder scrolls name is what is carrying this title. It would not have survived without being based in elder scrolls. And I fear the lack of being consistent from the devs might come to bite them if this next year's expansion doesn't fix anything or add anything truly meaningful.

Among my friends I know the gates of oblivion is the last hope they're putting in the game.

I think it being a secret yet very obvious is saying two very different things

Sometimes it can be obvious that something is secretly happening, can it not?

AinSoph

VampireLordLover99 wrote: »

Yes. I feel like by this point it should be very obvious ESO is slowly and secretly dying.

It desperately needs to get performance and system on the same league as other MMOs and games in general.

The elder scrolls name is what is carrying this title. It would not have survived without being based in elder scrolls. And I fear the lack of being consistent from the devs might come to bite them if this next year's expansion doesn't fix anything or add anything truly meaningful.

Among my friends I know the gates of oblivion is the last hope they're putting in the game.

At this point, yeah. Imagine if this game was completely copypasted but without a good IP to ride on, and ZOS wants to make another MMO?

Taleof2Cities

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

1) the top eso streamer has only 10OK subs on youtube.

2) The year of performance changes was smoke and mirrors. The only meaningful addition to the game was new quest zone that looks and feels empty compared to the world it copied. Story feels very same. Their ability to make difficult technical changes is non existant. (The antiquity mini game is pretty simple and built on the bones of systems already in place.)

3) next generation games and graphics cards leave it in dust.

4) the world has moved on from mmos. MMO is a bad word these days.

5) cash shop games are usually a cash grab.

6) I'm still playing it, and I'm not that cool, usually means something is tragically unpopular, ime.

Only one of those that might have any basis is that the performance improvements haven't worked. The rest is opinions (cash shop = cash grab; world doesn't like MMOs; graphics) or silly.

If it was fact, then this wouldn't be a discussion.

So, you're making something that isn't a discussion ... a discussion?

Scardan

My honest opinion:
1. ESO streamer subs indicate nothing. I do not show streams, I am not subscribed, I have no idea who is best ESO streamer, I am one of many.
2. In the year of performance are see a lot new players. Performance issues are according to what I have seen, usually in high end content. Plus pandemic helps.
3. What matters more then graphics? The fact that it is next TES game after Skyrim, with good design and near every potatoe laptop can run it due to old graphics, that looks in my opinion still nice. Except apple textures.
4. Provide evidence please. I see the opposite. There is even hype for MMO from Amazon. There was hype for that korean one where you can sea travel and do things. Hype for another one with Warband-like large scaled battles. 20 years old MMOs still live and get new players. Multiplayer games in general are very popular novadays.
5. I pay for aestetic plesure and I am fine with it. There is no pay to win so I do not see a problem either.
6. This was a joke, doesnt?

Araneae6537

People have been saying that the world is ending since it began... or rather since people began...

XxCaLxX

Performance is really the only issue imo. What other top mmo with this much content and depth has better graphics? I really don’t see how YouTube subs had anything to do with it considering most ppl just look on sites for builds and even if watch YouTube I’d say 90% don’t sub anyway. “The world has moved on from mmos”. I would like to see evidence of this. I haven’t once noticed a drop in population in fact I feel it increases at times. Do something about bots and focus more on performance rather than packing in more content at times is all eso needs. It isn’t dying. If one or a few ppl become burned out they may feel as it is but truthfully it isn’t.

JKorr

ImmortalCX wrote: »

1) the top eso streamer has only 10OK subs on youtube.

2) The year of performance changes was smoke and mirrors. The only meaningful addition to the game was new quest zone that looks and feels empty compared to the world it copied. Story feels very same. Their ability to make difficult technical changes is non existant. (The antiquity mini game is pretty simple and built on the bones of systems already in place.)

3) next generation games and graphics cards leave it in dust.

4) the world has moved on from mmos. MMO is a bad word these days.

5) cash shop games are usually a cash grab.

6) I'm still playing it, and I'm not that cool, usually means something is tragically unpopular, ime.

It feels like they are running it with a skeleton crew. Which I'm sure keeps shareholders happy somewhere. But it's not good for the game.

I would rather actually play the game than watch a streamer play. Chances are really good they aren't going to play the way I do, use the same character setup that in my personal very own opinion works great, and they won't make the choices I would, making watching any streamer an exercise in aggravation and frustration. I pay no attention at all to streamers; why on Nirn would I bother subbing to one?

I'm probably in the minority; I don't expect a mmo to have a deep, super intricate world. Too many people, too many possible choices.

I hate to say it, but, so what? This game has graphics detailed enough for my satisfaction. No one looks like a cartoon, wears boulder pauldrons that act like blinders, or use weapons that won't fit in a two-story building. If a next generation game comes out with a good story and enough lore, I might take a look at it. I want more than pretty graphics and the ability to brag the game I play is so next gen it makes supercomputers cry.

Cash shop games that are cash grabs generally have cash shops that sell instant win items. Unless your end game is getting a nice sparkly mount that is exactly as fast as all the other mounts, sparkly or not, in the game, or getting a pretty, shiny costume to wear while riding your sparkly mount, you're not going to find much to buy in the crown store that will "win" the game for you.

Why would you care whether someone else considers either you or the game "cool"? Are you having fun playing? Then who cares what someone else thinks?

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO

YstradClud wrote: »

Doesn't feel like it on NA PC at least. Been doing Cyrodiil for the first time lately and even Blackreach was pretty active today. Not sure there were any streamers in there though. They are in Grey Host I assume. A lot of us were just sub cp 810 noobs in PvE builds.

You are seeing around one thousand people in one campaign in PvP, and your conclusion is that the game seems to be doing well? I would not be as quick to draw that conclusion from such limited data. I suspect that the population cap is less than one thousand people for the campaigns these days, but even that generous estimate is not a lot.

The PvE part of the game is where most of the players are at, and where all the money is to be made. People spending small fortunes on housing, having inventory management problems making ESO+ a necessity, buying expansions to experience new PvE quests, collecting cosmetic items like mounts, pets and costumes -- some acquired at a ridiculous cost through crown crates -- that is where ZOS make their money.

I see lots of people in the New Life quest hub right now, but that doesn't tell me anything more than that there is at least one reasonably full instance of Eastmarch on the server, which means a few hundred people at most. Steam numbers say something about the population as a whole, but far from all ESO players are on Steam. As ordinary players, we simply don't see the big picture. I hope the game is doing okay, because I am still enjoying it, but I have no way of knowing. For the time being, I'll just keep playing.

Matchimus

Depends if the glass is half full or half empty.

SeaGtGruff

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

1) the top eso streamer has only 10OK subs on youtube.

2) The year of performance changes was smoke and mirrors. The only meaningful addition to the game was new quest zone that looks and feels empty compared to the world it copied. Story feels very same. Their ability to make difficult technical changes is non existant. (The antiquity mini game is pretty simple and built on the bones of systems already in place.)

3) next generation games and graphics cards leave it in dust.

4) the world has moved on from mmos. MMO is a bad word these days.

5) cash shop games are usually a cash grab.

6) I'm still playing it, and I'm not that cool, usually means something is tragically unpopular, ime.

Only one of those that might have any basis is that the performance improvements haven't worked. The rest is opinions (cash shop = cash grab; world doesn't like MMOs; graphics) or silly.

If it was fact, then this wouldn't be a discussion.

So, you're making something that isn't a discussion ... a discussion?

I didn't read his(?) comment that way. The thread title is a question, not a declarative statement. My interpretation is that he is interested in having people discuss his question, not trying to issue a pronouncement that he thinks people should accept as factual.

kargen27

Go to a delve to grab a lead then come back and say the game is dying. Try and farm gear in a public dungeon and say the game is dying.
Players everywhere.

People have been predicting the death of this game I'm guessing a solid two years before the release. The game is doing fine. Sure certain aspects like PvP in Cyrodiil need some major attention but overall we still have a good and healthy game population.

HalvarIronfist

As for player numbers, I don't really know.

I relate my experience with players to how well my guild does with membership in and of itself that is very subjective.

ESO was doing HUGELY during the pandemic's initial quarantines in the US. I had upwards of 120 people on daily at once, and my guild is fairly casual.

Since roughly August that number has been slowly declining. Nowdays I'm seeing 20-50 online at once.

The world effects the game as well. This time of year, lots of people are playing newer-released games. I for one took some time away from constant ESO playing to go enjoy Cyberpunk. I had a great time with that. holidays keep some people away, ETC ETC.

Is the game dying or declining? Perhaps seasonally. Overall? Meh. I doubt it.

Sheezabeast

Put it this way. We have cleared every single community challenge ever given to us. Destiny 2 just had to lower their community goal for their holiday event because they set it too high and didn't have enough community participation to meet the community goal.

Rukia541

Sheezabeast wrote: »

Put it this way. We have cleared every single community challenge ever given to us. Destiny 2 just had to lower their community goal for their holiday event because they set it too high and didn't have enough community participation to meet the community goal.

If you wanna see a dead game go look at Rift.. their community challenge was quite hilarious and the prize for top 10 was a single supply crate for weeks of farming LOL full on jebaited and trolled. Thats like the whole psijic villa event rewarding a single crown crate. And it was a very selective and selfish event.. and it took them like a month after the fact just to announce the winners.

ESO events have everyone working together, that seems to be the way to do it some of these MMOs don't even deserve to exist anymore after they were taken over by p2w garbage companies without a clue.

gatekeeper13

ImmortalCX wrote: »

3) next generation games and graphics cards leave it in dust.

Graphics dont make a good game. I can name you 20 AAA titles with insane graphics that are pure trash. ESO graphics are pretty fine, only some NPC models could see an overhaul because they look like old DAZ3D models.

But the game is not even close to being dead. There is a lot of activity ingame and it's actually more popular than it has ever been.

Truth is game performs pretty bad, has a myriad of bugs, Markarth broke it even more and ZOS team lacks the necessary skills to fix it's performance issues. Although 70% of the problems is purely due to the mediocre server capacity they pay for. Because when they expand it during specific events, lags, desyncs and skill delay magically all go away.

Stamicka

I think it’s complicated. The answer depends on what you are doing. As a whole, the game is very much alive. However, from an end game perspective, the game is very dead. There are various reasons to play the game, but I think that those who play to master the combat system, whether in PVE or PVP, are dying out.

There’s a large portion of the game that requires little to no combat at all such as housing, trading, scrying, just flat out adventuring, fishing, sight seeing, and even questing. The players that can enjoy these types of things will love the game and stick around. I think that these elements of the game are very well done, although a bit boring in my opinion.

On the other side of the game there’s the portion that allows you to build your skills with the ESO combat system. If you fall into this category then ESO is definitely dying. These are the pvpers and the end game raiders. Unfortunately I fall into this category, and the vast majority of my friends have quit ESO. I have also noticed that the top end PVE guilds have disbanded completely. There used to be a time where multiple top end pve guilds competed for new records, and PvP ball groups and players competed with one another. As time has went on this has completely died out due to constant combat changes or performance issues. There are very few end game players left, and even fewer that have played since the earlier days of ESO. So yes, this portion of ESO is dying very quickly, but overall ESO probably gains more players than they lose.

TLDR; ESO is not dying in the sense that the player base is shrinking, but it is dying in a competitive sense.

llande

This threads keep popping up for years. No it is not.

CaptainVenom

Here we go with more conspiracy theories.

belfong

Graphics may not have DLSS or RTX or whatever but don’t forget tons of players play on their notebook. 3 of my 4 friends play on notebooks. I see pictures of people in my guild on notebooks. There’s tons of lore and people stick around for story and content, not just graphics. If they are improving stability and performance next year, I think many will stick around.

idk

This is a first. Instead of suggesting the game is dying it's change to may he sectelretly dying.

In the end it's no different than the previous threads claiming the game is dying. Time has proven them wrong.

Oh, and OP has misses that GAAS are thriving and ESO is a GAAS.

ImmortalCX

kargen27 wrote: »

Go to a delve to grab a lead then come back and say the game is dying. Try and farm gear in a public dungeon and say the game is dying.
Players everywhere.

People have been predicting the death of this game I'm guessing a solid two years before the release. The game is doing fine. Sure certain aspects like PvP in Cyrodiil need some major attention but overall we still have a good and healthy game population.

One instance of new life event east march has 100 players. Its impos SD idle to tell if there are 100 or 10000 simultaneous players.