Is Eso secretly dying?

WraithShadow13

I don't think it's dying as much as it's being neglected to death. Between the overpriced store, the massive issues players have been having this year, the major disconnect between devs and players, the dps race and gap, pvp issues, and the often toxic players, the game just seems to drift downward. Not quite a downward spiral but a definite slope.


I don't think MMO's are a bad thing, i just think most of them have been bad, themselves. With too much focus on quick easy cash grabs, bad gambling mechanic lockboxes, and rushed production and budget cuts.



I think the "year of content", here, is a great idea but, again, marred by the overpriced overmonetized store, constant bugs or issues, and things like the iffy Vampire revamp, it's just a weird spot for the game to be in.


Personally, i would love to see a major balance update. More so, after this month, where it seems like the fake tank/healer issue has been running rampant. Granted, the pandemic clearly isn't helping matters but, overall, this game needs some serious love and a lot of adjustments.

Rowjoh

It's no secret that Cyrodill is often pop locked during prime time, Craglorn is as busy as ever with DSA, BRP and trial groups coming and going, Group Finder queue is still ridiculously long, event areas are teeming with players and there's still the usual bun-fight for nodes in all the popular places....

Dracane

Well, so far they had little incentive to try harder. They upheld the masquerade of being a perfectly fine and awesome game before the public. It was still enough to land them MMO of the year, somehow, in recent years.

And now, ESO did not even make it into the top 5 for the labor of love award. An award, they pleaded us to vote for. Maybe now even they see, that the news of ESO's neglect and decay are well known to the broad audience.
It would be very easy to fix, as we all have discussed a hundret times. Many of logical and easy things that can be done to cast away the negativity and show what an awesome game ESO can be underneath it all. Because it is.

But alas.

Mindcr0w

Ugh. According to MMO players every MMO that has ever existed has been "dying" from about two weeks after launch until the day the servers actually get turned off.

WoW, for example, has been "dying" for about 15 years now. And while it certainly has been waning in popularity and subscribers since about 2009, it is still by any reasonable measurement going strong and making money for Blizzard.

If you want to use games that achieved truly astonishing numbers of players like WoW circa 2008 or Minecraft at its height as a baseline, then sure all these games are dying. If you want to use more reasonable metrics, then ESO is almost certainly fine from the standpoint of turning a reasonable profit.

Performance wise it is still hot garbage, yes.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO

i think it is dying, i wish it was not, i think its down to several factors, ofc the performance is an issue, but i think there is more to it than just that, build and class balance is wrong, in pvp 2 classes take up to 65% of the population, nb's and sorcs. Dps numbers are to high, and guilds wanting anything from 75k dps upwards to join them, i know ZOS wants everyone to feel over-powered but that effects lots of things, like fake roles not just in norm dungeons but now in vet dungeons, cheesing mechanics and not bothering to learn them, which causes peeps to fail trials and dungeon because of not learning the mechanics. ZOS needs to understand how the game is played in pve with peeps cheesing content and in pvp where the hidden meta in bg's is 4-8 on one and overland anything from 5-10 or 24 to a full zerg on 1 person, this is why peeps are not playing as much, why would you like to bang your head against a wall in pve and no one doing mechanics and pvp not standing a chance when you are overwhelming out numbered, personal i just change how i play in both and particular in pvp and use there herd mentality against them, zos needs to play the game and see whats going on

NoMoreChillies

https://steamcharts.com/app/306130#All

stats tell a different story

game is healthy

Foto1

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

i think it is dying, i wish it was not, i think its down to several factors, ofc the performance is an issue, but i think there is more to it than just that, build and class balance is wrong, in pvp 2 classes take up to 65% of the population, nb's and sorcs. Dps numbers are to high, and guilds wanting anything from 75k dps upwards to join them, i know ZOS wants everyone to feel over-powered but that effects lots of things, like fake roles not just in norm dungeons but now in vet dungeons, cheesing mechanics and not bothering to learn them, which causes peeps to fail trials and dungeon because of not learning the mechanics. ZOS needs to understand how the game is played in pve with peeps cheesing content and in pvp where the hidden meta in bg's is 4-8 on one and overland anything from 5-10 or 24 to a full zerg on 1 person, this is why peeps are not playing as much, why would you like to bang your head against a wall in pve and no one doing mechanics and pvp not standing a chance when you are overwhelming out numbered, personal i just change how i play in both and particular in pvp and use there herd mentality against them, zos needs to play the game and see whats going on

I don't think you play pvp at all if you think NBs and Sorks are 65%

Sarannah

I disagree with you on all your points. But I do feel ESO could be bigger than every other MMO if it was handled better.

ESO seems to be a lot more populated, atleast on EU.

PS: MMO's currently have the issue of going for quick short-term cash, from players who are not really gamers. Instead of aiming for the steady cashflow from long-term real gamers. Or they fall into the pay-to-win trap, once again, for short-term monetary gain. Both of which chase away real gamers. And for MMO's chasing away the real gamers, means a deathsentence.

Roztlin45

They have to make money to stay in business. It boils down to that. So as long as ESO is profitable we will have a game to play. Period

Zorgon_The_Revenged

For me, it died when they put the glass armor motif in the Crown Store.......that hurt.

JinMori

I think the game is becoming less and less enjoyable, and i did notice a decline in general population, groups take longer to form etc...

But even if it isn't it doesn't matter, the game is still becoming less enjoyable for me, there are certain things the devs should do that they don't.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

Zorgon_The_Revenged wrote: »

For me, it died when they put the glass armor motif in the Crown Store.......that hurt.

Why? You can still get it ingame.

dinokstrunz

From what I could tell Q4 bought in the largest increase of players this year but then lost almost all of them within 2+ weeks probably due to performance issues and crashing. The decrease in population has become increasingly noticeable in December thanks to various big releases. But you can thank ZoS for the games decline in quality and population.

GreenhaloX

Well.. nothing lasts forever. All good things must eventually come to an end. In its longevity, ESO has been at its peak and downsloping on the scale of time is inevitable.

JinMori

Rukia541 wrote: »

ESO seems to be of the 1 rare MMO that gains new players more than loses them, maybe FF14 might be in that category as well. GW2/WoW seem to be far more dead or dying than ESO but still have steady population at least in the major farm areas.

I tried playing SL and while it was great at first with the higher dmg it felt like wotlk again but the grind is just impossible to keep up with so I doubt its population resurgence will last long, as usuall it will keep the no lifers and hardcore raiders/arena pvpers.

GW2 will see resurgence with cantha, but ESO gets far more content updates imo and I think thats why it loses less people . ESO also lets you do w/e the hell you want and is very easy to switch playstyle so it will always be an MMO ppl want with no major bs.

The performance issues harm the game a lot for example I haven't played in months but honestly no other MMO interest me so I am mostly just playing sp games and moba or fps until ZoS fixes the game. ESO is the best MMO thats why they should take the performance more seriously so we can all enjoy it and they're making it really hard to.

Dude, if wow is dying, eso is super dying. Come on, seriously? You guys are not in touch with reality, wow is still the most played mmo, and shadowlands release has seen a major increase in concurrent players, and they are staying at the moment unlike bfa.

Snowy_Wyndra_Karn

Is ESO secretly dying???

Hell. To. Tha. No.

czar

Doubt it. People have been saying this since it first launched. It's still here.

Mettaricana

Everything this game does feels like a poorly attempted knock off another game. Events are just wayshrine warping fetch quests. Trials are just ballroom dances with stack and burning. But even worse all the content feels like a waste of effort these year long chapters have less to do than a single dlc for any other mmo out there. Every year the content gets buggier story gets shorter, new additions feel even less engaging and less thought out... hell zos has been riding a nostalgia wagon for three years now destroying any magic the past games had it'd be a damn miracle to see a new plot that wasn't a slightly tweaked rehash of an old game. I used want a shivering isles chapter but given what you did to morrowind and skyrim no thanks.

Systems guilds, traders, cash shop, banks, dungeons all of it feels like crap from a game released 20 years ago. None of the systems are remotely innovative and far more clunky and buggier than older and even newer mmos. Hell i booted up ff14 for the first time in years no lag no bugs no framrate loss no blue screens even in the new content its like why is this so hard for you zos!? Yer output and performance was in the gutter long before you could blame a pandemic. You guys broke the ability to sit in a chair across the entire game by adding a murkmire sized zone... ffs how do you even!?

Zorgon_The_Revenged

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Zorgon_The_Revenged wrote: »

For me, it died when they put the glass armor motif in the Crown Store.......that hurt.

Why? You can still get it ingame.

Sorry, I guess that was too OG for some. (secret /facepalm)

furiouslog

ImmortalCX wrote: »

1) the top eso streamer has only 10OK subs on youtube.

2) The year of performance changes was smoke and mirrors. The only meaningful addition to the game was new quest zone that looks and feels empty compared to the world it copied. Story feels very same. Their ability to make difficult technical changes is non existant. (The antiquity mini game is pretty simple and built on the bones of systems already in place.)

3) next generation games and graphics cards leave it in dust.

4) the world has moved on from mmos. MMO is a bad word these days.

5) cash shop games are usually a cash grab.

6) I'm still playing it, and I'm not that cool, usually means something is tragically unpopular, ime.

It feels like they are running it with a skeleton crew. Which I'm sure keeps shareholders happy somewhere. But it's not good for the game.

https://steamcharts.com/app/306130#All

The data do not seem to support the perception of a slow death. Other considerations: recent gold inflation, pop-locked Cyrodiil at peak times, etc.

Also, perhaps you are more popular than you give yourself credit for. Feel good about that.

ImmortalCX

idk wrote: »

This is a first. Instead of suggesting the game is dying it's change to may he sectelretly dying.

In the end it's no different than the previous threads claiming the game is dying. Time has proven them wrong.

Oh, and OP has misses that GAAS are thriving and ESO is a GAAS.

There is actually a big difference.

If the game was just "plain dying", they would be throwing resources at it to extend its lifecycle, fix long standing bugs, etc. Despite their best efforts, it would be overtaken and replaced by other games.

If the game is secretly dying, that means they have downsized the team, aren't doing anything but a bare minimum to keep it afloat, yet present a face (lie) that everything is doing well, in order to squeeze as much out of it for as little effort possible.

What struck me as odd was that there were so few (any?) cinematic sequences with Greymoor. WOW always had amazing big budget CGI cutscenes that tied the story to the action, as do all AAA games these days. Additionally, the performance by many accounts has gotten worse. I'm getting occasional BSOD playing ESO that never happened before (although I'm not sure it isn't the computer.) I look at the volume of content and the team could be 1-2 server engineers, 1-2 general programmers, a level designer, a couple artists, two writers, a community manager/ customer support lead, 2-3 cs reps, project manager, product/program manager, and a combination of voice acting that is sourced out for important roles or sourced internally.

By my count they could keep this product going with 10-12 ish people (probably less with shared roles). To build something of this scale (or make significant game changes) would take 5x that.

Piwi2point0

It ain’t a secret, when you discuss it on the forums...

alainjbrennanb16_ESO

Foto1 wrote: »

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

i think it is dying, i wish it was not, i think its down to several factors, ofc the performance is an issue, but i think there is more to it than just that, build and class balance is wrong, in pvp 2 classes take up to 65% of the population, nb's and sorcs. Dps numbers are to high, and guilds wanting anything from 75k dps upwards to join them, i know ZOS wants everyone to feel over-powered but that effects lots of things, like fake roles not just in norm dungeons but now in vet dungeons, cheesing mechanics and not bothering to learn them, which causes peeps to fail trials and dungeon because of not learning the mechanics. ZOS needs to understand how the game is played in pve with peeps cheesing content and in pvp where the hidden meta in bg's is 4-8 on one and overland anything from 5-10 or 24 to a full zerg on 1 person, this is why peeps are not playing as much, why would you like to bang your head against a wall in pve and no one doing mechanics and pvp not standing a chance when you are overwhelming out numbered, personal i just change how i play in both and particular in pvp and use there herd mentality against them, zos needs to play the game and see whats going on

I don't think you play pvp at all if you think NBs and Sorks are 65%

i play pvp every day and use kill counter which gives a review of kills and deaths that does show you who really is in pvp, , my rank is overlord and play on eu ravenwatch server character name is always on vie in here

idk

delenn35 wrote: »

Is ESO secretly dying???

Hell. To. Tha. No.

It's a secret.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO

furiouslog wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

1) the top eso streamer has only 10OK subs on youtube.

2) The year of performance changes was smoke and mirrors. The only meaningful addition to the game was new quest zone that looks and feels empty compared to the world it copied. Story feels very same. Their ability to make difficult technical changes is non existant. (The antiquity mini game is pretty simple and built on the bones of systems already in place.)

3) next generation games and graphics cards leave it in dust.

4) the world has moved on from mmos. MMO is a bad word these days.

5) cash shop games are usually a cash grab.

6) I'm still playing it, and I'm not that cool, usually means something is tragically unpopular, ime.

It feels like they are running it with a skeleton crew. Which I'm sure keeps shareholders happy somewhere. But it's not good for the game.

https://steamcharts.com/app/306130#All

The data do not seem to support the perception of a slow death. Other considerations: recent gold inflation, pop-locked Cyrodiil at peak times, etc.

Also, perhaps you are more popular than you give yourself credit for. Feel good about that.

actual by the data you supplied there has been a drop of 59% from april to the end of the year

furiouslog

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

furiouslog wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

1) the top eso streamer has only 10OK subs on youtube.

2) The year of performance changes was smoke and mirrors. The only meaningful addition to the game was new quest zone that looks and feels empty compared to the world it copied. Story feels very same. Their ability to make difficult technical changes is non existant. (The antiquity mini game is pretty simple and built on the bones of systems already in place.)

3) next generation games and graphics cards leave it in dust.

4) the world has moved on from mmos. MMO is a bad word these days.

5) cash shop games are usually a cash grab.

6) I'm still playing it, and I'm not that cool, usually means something is tragically unpopular, ime.

It feels like they are running it with a skeleton crew. Which I'm sure keeps shareholders happy somewhere. But it's not good for the game.

https://steamcharts.com/app/306130#All

The data do not seem to support the perception of a slow death. Other considerations: recent gold inflation, pop-locked Cyrodiil at peak times, etc.

Also, perhaps you are more popular than you give yourself credit for. Feel good about that.

actual by the data you supplied there has been a drop of 59% from april to the end of the year

I've posted about this before. Large deviations over time in the player population are tied to content releases, promotions, and events. Controlling for those factors within a time series regression reveal that the player trend is still heading upwards. Compare the post-Elsweyr lull with the post-Skyrim lull, and you'll see that the player baseline is higher than it's ever been - the deviations due to drop-ins/drop-outs is higher than ever, but retention overall is also higher than ever.

Kiralyn2000

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

3) next generation games and graphics cards leave it in dust.

Graphics dont make a good game. I can name you 20 AAA titles with insane graphics that are pure trash. ESO graphics are pretty fine, only some NPC models could see an overhaul because they look like old DAZ3D models.

And even then - if a game has good graphics (and I've always thought ESO looked quite good), better graphics appearing in new games doesn't suddenly make the 'old' graphics Bad.

Do Control, Cyberpunk, and Crysis remake have New And Improved graphics? Sure.
Does that make all my old games suddenly look worse? No.

lemonizzle

As someone said earlier, the endgame/competitive areas of the game are decaying somewhat, since these are mechanic intensive and require a stable server and a smooth running game. You don't really need that while roleplaying inside your house, or delivering 10 bear fingers to some npc. The TES IP carrying the whole game is also true, it wouldn't be as "big" as it is if not built upon a well crafted world and lore.
The fact that Skyrim came out 9 years ago and the next installment is years ahead, means that anyone with an Elder Scrolls thirst has to replay the same old games, heavily mod them with Macho Man dragons - alternatively just mess around in a MMO that has a familiar and loved world. Once TES VI drops I'd be surprised if the playerbase did not suffer a large hit.

The_Old_Goat

idk wrote: »

delenn35 wrote: »

Is ESO secretly dying???

Hell. To. Tha. No.

It's a secret.

Shhhh! Mums the word!

xclassgaming

No.

Try better next time with the bait, thank you.