Mythic items should be removed from the game.

Mitaka211

I just think they are way too strong. Like that malacath band of brutality is the dumbest item they could have added. Have you noticed that pvp is fun, right up to that point you encounter someone using these things. They are like immortal tanks, that smack you with 4k dizzy swings, those guys and at the same time are full blown tanks. I honestly believe that straight up removing these items will fix a big portion of the pvp inbalance problem.

Just look at the content creators too lol, they have to put "Not Malacath" in their build videos , because everyone knows these things are stupid. A fully geared 810cp (and honestly in bgs too) can not die ths to these items , it's a bit too much. And when you pair them with a stam necro/warden , which already are op on their own it blows out of proportions . Who the hell thought adding these things is a good idea. Oh you can't crit , like most of these guys even cared about crit to begin with.

It used to be when you encounter someone who is a full tank, you could not kill him ok that's fair, but he also could not do anything to you. Now they can use all these proc sets , combine them with the dumb rings and all of a sudden they can shred you and they end up doing more damage than you do. This game has become so so annoying and i don't think all the people leaving is a coinsidence either. All these changes annihilated any feeling of being competative in pvp. Like you equiped malacath and spam dizzy swing , good job such a good player.

Emma_Overload

Nah. Theory crafting was really stale until they introduced mythics. Malacath was literally the only thing that brought me back to ESO after months of hiatus.

If anything needs to be nerfed, it's proc sets, not Malacath. Malacath opens up heavy armor for magicka builds and even makes some semi-hybrid builds viable. Nerfing it now would just be a major bummer, and I would probably cancel my sub again.

Nairinhe

As a solo/duo player I love the Ring of the Pale Order. Lets me go yolo with fun builds in normal dungeons.
So a big no to removing mythics.

Stahlor

Mythics are op, proc sets are op, heals are op, shields are op, skills are op, Wardens are op, Necros are op... - how can we even play this game?

relentless_turnip

Your complaint seems to be largely with malacath.

I think the biggest problem is proc sets and I think is at the source of why this meta is so unenjoyable. While they do more damage than any skill, people will wear them and stack health, their heal that scales with their health will overperform. Malacath just makes proc sets better, without it buffing them so extensively malacath would just be an option.

Proc sets need to have their tooltips reduced to that of an equivalent skill before any stat investment and then scale with offensive stats exactly the same as a skill and even crit. Then you would make meaningful choices and not be able to have high damage and incredible tankiness. You could decide whether to use malacath or not...

Mitaka211

Stahlor wrote: »

Mythics are op, proc sets are op, heals are op, shields are op, skills are op, Wardens are op, Necros are op... - how can we even play this game?

Mythics , proc sets, wardens and necros yes. I understand what you mean but at the time , yes these things are overperforming in comparison to everything else and need to be changed. My main is a templar , but i also have a fully geared stam necro ok, the difference in strenght is pretty damn apparent. The classes are really unbalanced and these mythic items + proc sets just blows it out of park comepletely.

Rhaegar75

Balance is the way forward however difficult it will be to actually find it.

One thing Mythic items and procs have brought in is more diversity.....maybe not a huge amount of diversity but at least there are more builds than simply Clever alchemist + NMA + BS: it was sooo boring.

Certain things (i.e. Mythic and arena items , some proc sets, wardens)need to be tune down but definitely not gutted or removed

relentless_turnip

I couldn't say where class balance sits at the moment... Are we judging classes or proc sets!? Particularly warden synergises really well with the current meta with necro being a close second. After the change to major buffs in the last PTS cycle wardens should have lost significant power, but we went straight into a meta totally unreliant on stats.

Change proc sets to scale with offensive stats and let's actually play a patch to see where things really sit.

Juhasow

There is a plural used in the thread title yet original post complains about single mythic item. Removing all mythic items because one of them is problematic doesn't sound logical. It's more logical to investigate the issue connected to that specific item like what are the most common tanky setups running it , how effective they're and then make appropriate decisions.

Also it's not like there was no possibility to create tank that deals decent dmg before malacath was added. It was possible almost always one way or another depends which update we're talking about. Some people still remember things like black rose +viper+tremorscale and similar stuff. Malacath just emps up the issue atm but it's not like You cannot built tanky while still dealing good dmg without it.

Ariades_swe

relentless_turnip wrote: »

I couldn't say where class balance sits at the moment... Are we judging classes or proc sets!? Particularly warden synergises really well with the current meta with necro being a close second. After the change to major buffs in the last PTS cycle wardens should have lost significant power, but we went straight into a meta totally unreliant on stats.

Change proc sets to scale with offensive stats and let's actually play a patch to see where things really sit.

Excactly not many complained about stamdens a year ago when it was all about stats during the new moon/fury meta. It was all about templar jabs and dk leaps back then and before that petsorcs.
Stamden needs adjustment now I agree but people act like its been as unbalanced as now for years.

Mitaka211

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Mitaka211 wrote: »

Stahlor wrote: »

Mythics are op, proc sets are op, heals are op, shields are op, skills are op, Wardens are op, Necros are op... - how can we even play this game?

Mythics , proc sets, wardens and necros yes. I understand what you mean but at the time , yes these things are overperforming in comparison to everything else and need to be changed. My main is a templar , but i also have a fully geared stam necro ok, the difference in strenght is pretty damn apparent. The classes are really unbalanced and these mythic items + proc sets just blows it out of park comepletely.

[Quoted post was removed]

Yea ok dude, what i am pointing out is quite obvious. Templars got nerfed bacause of people like me huh? I actually posted more than once even 1-2 years back explaining what is wrong with Templars. Don't be mad for people pointing out things , be mad that the developers don't seem to understand what they are doing when it comes to balance. Do you remember a while back when we got info that we would be getting changes to ultimates, and what did we get , removal of major protection from sweep and gaining empower (to which even the templar rep at the time was shocked that they did that). People giving their feedback are not the problem, the devs failing get a grip on balance for years is.

I enjoy pvp, what i don't enjoy is lazy builds. Buffing templars is a whole other discussion and i agree that it must happen. Them bringing all classes in line and ok, nerfing not removing, procs and mythicals can happen in one update you know.

From what i have seen all these problems come , because the devs can't seem to find a middle ground for anything. If they nerf something , they pound it down to the ground until it is useless , if they buff something it's total overkill. They have not made one change where it has not been extreme. The game is no longer about skill, it's about what *** proc set in combination with a special ring you are using. Hell yea i will complain about that.

Ariades_swe

Wow you're mad.
You said in your first post that you wanted ALL mythics gone yet failed to see its procs and healthbased heals that's wrong in this meta and also how this meta came into place because people complained about the burst meta after the healing nerf that came after complais about another tankydps meta and now we've gone full circle.

You bring up finding a middleground yet you think ALL mythics should be taken out.
[snip]
[edited for baiting]

ImSoPro

Adapt with the game changes or get wrecked at this point. Complaining on the forums never brings change. ZOS is not a studio that listens to their playerbase. That’s just a fact, they have a timeline they follow and don’t deviate. Throw malacath on your toon and fight back or maybe use the ring of the pale order and counter. Mythics add flavor like proc sets add flavor. Removing them would be bad for the game. The OP items just need a tone down but once again ZOS won’t be listening to us.

Reverb

I think that procs are a much bigger problem than mythic items right now. If there was any semblance of set balance, the mythic’s would be great for build flexibility without being notably OP.

idk

I can say with a high degree of confidence that Zos is not removing relics from the game.

I agree with Reverb that procs Is the issue. .

relentless_turnip

ImSoPro wrote: »

Adapt with the game changes or get wrecked at this point. Complaining on the forums never brings change. ZOS is not a studio that listens to their playerbase. That’s just a fact, they have a timeline they follow and don’t deviate. Throw malacath on your toon and fight back or maybe use the ring of the pale order and counter. Mythics add flavor like proc sets add flavor. Removing them would be bad for the game. The OP items just need a tone down but once again ZOS won’t be listening to us.

The flavour proc sets add is *** flavour 🤭

Joy_Division

Mitaka211 wrote: »

From what i have seen all these problems come , because the devs can't seem to find a middle ground for anything. If they nerf something , they pound it down to the ground until it is useless , if they buff something it's total overkill. They have not made one change where it has not been extreme.

Mitaka211 wrote: »

Mythic items should be removed from the game. I just think they are way too strong ... I honestly believe that straight up removing these items will fix a big portion of the pvp inbalance problem.

Umm, ok.

dinokstrunz

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Nah. Theory crafting was really stale until they introduced mythics. Malacath was literally the only thing that brought me back to ESO after months of hiatus.

If anything needs to be nerfed, it's proc sets, not Malacath. Malacath opens up heavy armor for magicka builds and even makes some semi-hybrid builds viable. Nerfing it now would just be a major bummer, and I would probably cancel my sub again.

You mean it enabled super heavy tanks with the ability to do absurd damage with the minimal amount of effort. Sounds like quality game balancing. Theory crafting was really about finding bugs/exploits, see unfathomable for example. It's without a doubt one of the worst metas in ESO history.

Jeremy

Mitaka211 wrote: »

I just think they are way too strong. Like that malacath band of brutality is the dumbest item they could have added. Have you noticed that pvp is fun, right up to that point you encounter someone using these things. They are like immortal tanks, that smack you with 4k dizzy swings, those guys and at the same time are full blown tanks. I honestly believe that straight up removing these items will fix a big portion of the pvp inbalance problem.

Just look at the content creators too lol, they have to put "Not Malacath" in their build videos , because everyone knows these things are stupid. A fully geared 810cp (and honestly in bgs too) can not die ths to these items , it's a bit too much. And when you pair them with a stam necro/warden , which already are op on their own it blows out of proportions . Who the hell thought adding these things is a good idea. Oh you can't crit , like most of these guys even cared about crit to begin with.

It used to be when you encounter someone who is a full tank, you could not kill him ok that's fair, but he also could not do anything to you. Now they can use all these proc sets , combine them with the dumb rings and all of a sudden they can shred you and they end up doing more damage than you do. This game has become so so annoying and i don't think all the people leaving is a coinsidence either. All these changes annihilated any feeling of being competative in pvp. Like you equiped malacath and spam dizzy swing , good job such a good player.

PvP is definetly drying up. No doubt about it. The battleground population is threadbare right now and probably the lowest I've seen. I think there are maybe like 20 people doing it. lol

I think this game needs to add a kind of damage immunity that kicks in to stop players from being overwhelmed by these absurd damage bursts, similarly to how they do with CC effects.

relentless_turnip

dinokstrunz wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Nah. Theory crafting was really stale until they introduced mythics. Malacath was literally the only thing that brought me back to ESO after months of hiatus.

If anything needs to be nerfed, it's proc sets, not Malacath. Malacath opens up heavy armor for magicka builds and even makes some semi-hybrid builds viable. Nerfing it now would just be a major bummer, and I would probably cancel my sub again.

You mean it enabled super heavy tanks with the ability to do absurd damage with the minimal amount of effort. Sounds like quality game balancing. Theory crafting was really about finding bugs/exploits, see unfathomable for example. It's without a doubt one of the worst metas in ESO history.

Proc sets allowed that, not malacath. Malacath on a stat based heavy build isn't anything to fear... With the possible exception of mag/stamdk.

Waffennacht

I would hope to see things retain their viability a few changes Ive read maintain that, others do not.

There's a ton of viable proc sets now; issue is in no CP they are just mathematically better

Dojohoda

If certain easily procced sets were not over-tuned would we even notice Malacath?

dinokstrunz

relentless_turnip wrote: »

dinokstrunz wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Nah. Theory crafting was really stale until they introduced mythics. Malacath was literally the only thing that brought me back to ESO after months of hiatus.

If anything needs to be nerfed, it's proc sets, not Malacath. Malacath opens up heavy armor for magicka builds and even makes some semi-hybrid builds viable. Nerfing it now would just be a major bummer, and I would probably cancel my sub again.

You mean it enabled super heavy tanks with the ability to do absurd damage with the minimal amount of effort. Sounds like quality game balancing. Theory crafting was really about finding bugs/exploits, see unfathomable for example. It's without a doubt one of the worst metas in ESO history.

Proc sets allowed that, not malacath. Malacath on a stat based heavy build isn't anything to fear... With the possible exception of mag/stamdk.

The best proc users are using Malacath. For Stamden and Stamcro Malacath is always the first consideration since you are able to be tanky without defensive sets. Malacath is super unhealthy for the game and everyone who tested it on Greymoor tests knew how ridiculous it was going to be. It's busted, both procs and malacath need toning down for sure.

Fawn4287

Malacath has ruined PvP completely, and what was ZOS’s fix? Nerf CP crit chance and make heavy with malacath the only logical option for essentially every build(other than stamblade). Malacath gives near 0 damage tank builds a mid tier damage output and everyone has gone back to group play so now the proc sets and ultimate dump from 3 tanks combined with poisons and dots gives these tanks the damage output to kill mediocre players.

relentless_turnip

dinokstrunz wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

dinokstrunz wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Nah. Theory crafting was really stale until they introduced mythics. Malacath was literally the only thing that brought me back to ESO after months of hiatus.

If anything needs to be nerfed, it's proc sets, not Malacath. Malacath opens up heavy armor for magicka builds and even makes some semi-hybrid builds viable. Nerfing it now would just be a major bummer, and I would probably cancel my sub again.

You mean it enabled super heavy tanks with the ability to do absurd damage with the minimal amount of effort. Sounds like quality game balancing. Theory crafting was really about finding bugs/exploits, see unfathomable for example. It's without a doubt one of the worst metas in ESO history.

Proc sets allowed that, not malacath. Malacath on a stat based heavy build isn't anything to fear... With the possible exception of mag/stamdk.

The best proc users are using Malacath. For Stamden and Stamcro Malacath is always the first consideration since you are able to be tanky without defensive sets. Malacath is super unhealthy for the game and everyone who tested it on Greymoor tests knew how ridiculous it was going to be. It's busted, both procs and malacath need toning down for sure.

Totally understand your opinion, but let me put it this way.

Does malacath over perform on a stamden wearing fury/new moon heavy? To do enough damage you will still need offensive stats so your health will sit at 30k max?

Does malacath over perform on a stamden wearing crimson/syvarra heavy build? You don't need offensive stats so can stack 35k-50k health. Is it malacath or proc sets overperforming? How much does arctic blast heal you for compared to the above?

This is the point I'm trying to make. Without proc sets you are making a build choice with malacath. I personally have no problem with people using malacath on stat build. I haven't ever encountered it to be too strong in that scenario. I would totally agree in the proc meta it is too strong, but it isn't the underlying issue IMO. Out of the 5 characters I actively play I use malacath on only one. I wouldn't care if they did nerf it I just don't think it is the core issue right now.

erio

4k dizzy swings seem like really poor damage

wheem_ESO

erio wrote: »

4k dizzy swings seem like really poor damage

It's not just 4k Dizzying Swings with nothing else going on. It's those 4k damage spammables being stacked on top of multiple proc sets, heavy armor, high health, and the ridiculous off-GCD stun attached to Dizzying Swing. And 4k damage on a spammable is actually quite powerful from a Magicka perspective, outside of Whip/Sweeps at least. The only way you're really touching those numbers is with a full stat build, without any of the accompanying procs or off-GCD stuns. (And these are obviously no-CP damage numbers)

Qbiken

Is it malacath or proc sets overperforming?

How about both?

wheem_ESO

Qbiken wrote: »

Is it malacath or proc sets overperforming?

How about both?

Is anyone running Malacath on a stat-based build without procs?

Xiomaro

relentless_turnip wrote: »

dinokstrunz wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

dinokstrunz wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Nah. Theory crafting was really stale until they introduced mythics. Malacath was literally the only thing that brought me back to ESO after months of hiatus.

If anything needs to be nerfed, it's proc sets, not Malacath. Malacath opens up heavy armor for magicka builds and even makes some semi-hybrid builds viable. Nerfing it now would just be a major bummer, and I would probably cancel my sub again.

You mean it enabled super heavy tanks with the ability to do absurd damage with the minimal amount of effort. Sounds like quality game balancing. Theory crafting was really about finding bugs/exploits, see unfathomable for example. It's without a doubt one of the worst metas in ESO history.

Proc sets allowed that, not malacath. Malacath on a stat based heavy build isn't anything to fear... With the possible exception of mag/stamdk.

The best proc users are using Malacath. For Stamden and Stamcro Malacath is always the first consideration since you are able to be tanky without defensive sets. Malacath is super unhealthy for the game and everyone who tested it on Greymoor tests knew how ridiculous it was going to be. It's busted, both procs and malacath need toning down for sure.

Does malacath over perform on a stamden wearing fury/new moon heavy?

If you take procs out of the equation... yes. Playing a stat build right now is shooting yourself in the foot in some scenarios (no CP, for example).

Procs are overpowered but that doesn't mean Malacath isn't.

Without Malacath you have to make a decision. Do I want to do a lot of damage/burst or do I want to be a raid boss? Malacath removes that decision. Just run heavy armour and Malacath to get both. You can be a raid boss and blow people up with a Sub Assault/Blastbones combo.

I would like to see Malacath toned down if for no other reason than to make other mythics seem more viable. Wild Hunt ring, Torc of Tonal Constancy, Pale Order etc. They're all quite cool but if you're someone who like to make the best builds possible you're basically shooting yourself in the foot just to make an off meta build. There are some builds on some classes that work well with other mythics but for 90% of the best builds right now you run Malacath and procs. They're both busted.

Juhasow

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Is it malacath or proc sets overperforming?

How about both?

Is anyone running Malacath on a stat-based build without procs?

Yes. Especially on heavy armor setups. Since crit chance and crit dmg is low there anyway. And I am not talking about saome randoms who have no idea what they're doing , I'm talking about good or even very good players. It's sometimes simply mathematically better.