Mythic items should be removed from the game.

Foto1

Shouldn't

relentless_turnip

Xiomaro wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

dinokstrunz wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

dinokstrunz wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Nah. Theory crafting was really stale until they introduced mythics. Malacath was literally the only thing that brought me back to ESO after months of hiatus.

If anything needs to be nerfed, it's proc sets, not Malacath. Malacath opens up heavy armor for magicka builds and even makes some semi-hybrid builds viable. Nerfing it now would just be a major bummer, and I would probably cancel my sub again.

You mean it enabled super heavy tanks with the ability to do absurd damage with the minimal amount of effort. Sounds like quality game balancing. Theory crafting was really about finding bugs/exploits, see unfathomable for example. It's without a doubt one of the worst metas in ESO history.

Proc sets allowed that, not malacath. Malacath on a stat based heavy build isn't anything to fear... With the possible exception of mag/stamdk.

The best proc users are using Malacath. For Stamden and Stamcro Malacath is always the first consideration since you are able to be tanky without defensive sets. Malacath is super unhealthy for the game and everyone who tested it on Greymoor tests knew how ridiculous it was going to be. It's busted, both procs and malacath need toning down for sure.

Does malacath over perform on a stamden wearing fury/new moon heavy?

If you take procs out of the equation... yes. Playing a stat build right now is shooting yourself in the foot in some scenarios (no CP, for example).

Procs are overpowered but that doesn't mean Malacath isn't.

Without Malacath you have to make a decision. Do I want to do a lot of damage/burst or do I want to be a raid boss? Malacath removes that decision. Just run heavy armour and Malacath to get both. You can be a raid boss and blow people up with a Sub Assault/Blastbones combo.

I would like to see Malacath toned down if for no other reason than to make other mythics seem more viable. Wild Hunt ring, Torc of Tonal Constancy, Pale Order etc. They're all quite cool but if you're someone who like to make the best builds possible you're basically shooting yourself in the foot just to make an off meta build. There are some builds on some classes that work well with other mythics but for 90% of the best builds right now you run Malacath and procs. They're both busted.

I only wear malacath on my stamdk in heavy stat based. All my other stam chars are in medium and actually feel malacath is a shot in the foot in most cases in medium. I wear pale order with briar on my stamsorc and previously used torc. I use wild Hunt ring on my stamcro. I feel most mythics are as strong depending on what you're character lacks or what you want it to have.

I agree malacath takes less imagination, but outside of a proc build I think it's fine. I didn't have a problem with it during greymoor, which is the only time we have experienced it close to proc free with venomous smite being the only popular one and it requires a crit. That is just my opinion, but my point is I don't think anyone is able to discern between procs and malacath. Procs are overpowered without malacath, but I don't think malacath is overpowered without procs. Malacath allows you to build heavy, but procs allow you to build no damage at all.

Xiomaro

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Xiomaro wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

dinokstrunz wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

dinokstrunz wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Nah. Theory crafting was really stale until they introduced mythics. Malacath was literally the only thing that brought me back to ESO after months of hiatus.

If anything needs to be nerfed, it's proc sets, not Malacath. Malacath opens up heavy armor for magicka builds and even makes some semi-hybrid builds viable. Nerfing it now would just be a major bummer, and I would probably cancel my sub again.

You mean it enabled super heavy tanks with the ability to do absurd damage with the minimal amount of effort. Sounds like quality game balancing. Theory crafting was really about finding bugs/exploits, see unfathomable for example. It's without a doubt one of the worst metas in ESO history.

Proc sets allowed that, not malacath. Malacath on a stat based heavy build isn't anything to fear... With the possible exception of mag/stamdk.

The best proc users are using Malacath. For Stamden and Stamcro Malacath is always the first consideration since you are able to be tanky without defensive sets. Malacath is super unhealthy for the game and everyone who tested it on Greymoor tests knew how ridiculous it was going to be. It's busted, both procs and malacath need toning down for sure.

Does malacath over perform on a stamden wearing fury/new moon heavy?

If you take procs out of the equation... yes. Playing a stat build right now is shooting yourself in the foot in some scenarios (no CP, for example).

Procs are overpowered but that doesn't mean Malacath isn't.

Without Malacath you have to make a decision. Do I want to do a lot of damage/burst or do I want to be a raid boss? Malacath removes that decision. Just run heavy armour and Malacath to get both. You can be a raid boss and blow people up with a Sub Assault/Blastbones combo.

I would like to see Malacath toned down if for no other reason than to make other mythics seem more viable. Wild Hunt ring, Torc of Tonal Constancy, Pale Order etc. They're all quite cool but if you're someone who like to make the best builds possible you're basically shooting yourself in the foot just to make an off meta build. There are some builds on some classes that work well with other mythics but for 90% of the best builds right now you run Malacath and procs. They're both busted.

I only wear malacath on my stamdk in heavy stat based. All my other stam chars are in medium and actually feel malacath is a shot in the foot in most cases in medium. I wear pale order with briar on my stamsorc and previously used torc. I use wild Hunt ring on my stamcro. I feel most mythics are as strong depending on what you're character lacks or what you want it to have.

I agree malacath takes less imagination, but outside of a proc build I think it's fine. I didn't have a problem with it during greymoor, which is the only time we have experienced it close to proc free with venomous smite being the only popular one and it requires a crit. That is just my opinion, but my point is I don't think anyone is able to discern between procs and malacath. Procs are overpowered without malacath, but I don't think malacath is overpowered without procs. Malacath allows you to build heavy, but procs allow you to build no damage at all.

Here is an example of what I mean. Stat builds with New Moon, Clever Alchemist and Balorgh. Only difference is, one uses Malacath/Heavy, the other uses Master's Bow/Medium. I've even shoved a Major Savagery buff on the medium armour build (crit pots or whatever) to give it a fighting chance.

No Malacath: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=299931
Yes Malacath: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=301053

Look at the grey number beside weapon damage. This is "effective weapon damage" which takes into account penetration, crit, opponent resists (I've set it to 27k) and opponent's crit resist (I've set it to 1350) and a bunch of other stuff.

The medium armour build does indeed edge out the heavy build in damage and the stam sustain is a little better. But the heavy build has more health, higher resists, more health recovery and more healing received.

Shove some impen gear on the opponent and the medium build falls right into line with the heavy build.

Oh and here's a build that builds a little more crit just for the sake of it: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=301067

Best case scenario - medium is a little better damage than a Malacath/heavy build at the cost of tankiness. Worst case scenario, it's the same damage with less survivability.

Edit: An exception to the Malacath thing is Stamblade/Sorcerer. They actually benefit from crits still.

relentless_turnip

Xiomaro wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Xiomaro wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

dinokstrunz wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

dinokstrunz wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Nah. Theory crafting was really stale until they introduced mythics. Malacath was literally the only thing that brought me back to ESO after months of hiatus.

If anything needs to be nerfed, it's proc sets, not Malacath. Malacath opens up heavy armor for magicka builds and even makes some semi-hybrid builds viable. Nerfing it now would just be a major bummer, and I would probably cancel my sub again.

You mean it enabled super heavy tanks with the ability to do absurd damage with the minimal amount of effort. Sounds like quality game balancing. Theory crafting was really about finding bugs/exploits, see unfathomable for example. It's without a doubt one of the worst metas in ESO history.

Proc sets allowed that, not malacath. Malacath on a stat based heavy build isn't anything to fear... With the possible exception of mag/stamdk.

The best proc users are using Malacath. For Stamden and Stamcro Malacath is always the first consideration since you are able to be tanky without defensive sets. Malacath is super unhealthy for the game and everyone who tested it on Greymoor tests knew how ridiculous it was going to be. It's busted, both procs and malacath need toning down for sure.

Does malacath over perform on a stamden wearing fury/new moon heavy?

If you take procs out of the equation... yes. Playing a stat build right now is shooting yourself in the foot in some scenarios (no CP, for example).

Procs are overpowered but that doesn't mean Malacath isn't.

Without Malacath you have to make a decision. Do I want to do a lot of damage/burst or do I want to be a raid boss? Malacath removes that decision. Just run heavy armour and Malacath to get both. You can be a raid boss and blow people up with a Sub Assault/Blastbones combo.

I would like to see Malacath toned down if for no other reason than to make other mythics seem more viable. Wild Hunt ring, Torc of Tonal Constancy, Pale Order etc. They're all quite cool but if you're someone who like to make the best builds possible you're basically shooting yourself in the foot just to make an off meta build. There are some builds on some classes that work well with other mythics but for 90% of the best builds right now you run Malacath and procs. They're both busted.

I only wear malacath on my stamdk in heavy stat based. All my other stam chars are in medium and actually feel malacath is a shot in the foot in most cases in medium. I wear pale order with briar on my stamsorc and previously used torc. I use wild Hunt ring on my stamcro. I feel most mythics are as strong depending on what you're character lacks or what you want it to have.

I agree malacath takes less imagination, but outside of a proc build I think it's fine. I didn't have a problem with it during greymoor, which is the only time we have experienced it close to proc free with venomous smite being the only popular one and it requires a crit. That is just my opinion, but my point is I don't think anyone is able to discern between procs and malacath. Procs are overpowered without malacath, but I don't think malacath is overpowered without procs. Malacath allows you to build heavy, but procs allow you to build no damage at all.

Here is an example of what I mean. Stat builds with New Moon, Clever Alchemist and Balorgh. Only difference is, one uses Malacath/Heavy, the other uses Master's Bow/Medium. I've even shoved a Major Savagery buff on the medium armour build (crit pots or whatever) to give it a fighting chance.

No Malacath: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=299931
Yes Malacath: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=301053

Look at the grey number beside weapon damage. This is "effective weapon damage" which takes into account penetration, crit, opponent resists (I've set it to 27k) and opponent's crit resist (I've set it to 1350) and a bunch of other stuff.

The medium armour build does indeed edge out the heavy build in damage and the stam sustain is a little better. But the heavy build has more health, higher resists, more health recovery and more healing received.

Shove some impen gear on the opponent and the medium build falls right into line with the heavy build.

Oh and here's a build that builds a little more crit just for the sake of it: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=301067

Best case scenario - medium is a little better damage than a Malacath/heavy build at the cost of tankiness. Worst case scenario, it's the same damage with less survivability.

Edit: An exception to the Malacath thing is Stamblade/Sorcerer. They actually benefit from crits still.

To be honest with you that isn't a fair example of a medium build potential.

Look at my stamcro and stamsorc medium builds.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=296007 stamsorc

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=300426 stamcro

The effective damage is essentially double what you posted this isn't possible with malacath. These aren't glass cannons either they are pretty rounded builds. Of course using UESP to emphasise a point in PvP is largely redundant, as a proc build for instance would be way below 7k effective, but we know how strong they are.

Edit:
Apologies I read your comment again and didn't fairly address you points.

If I use your same parameters of 27k resists and 1350 crit resist the stamcros(I didn't use stamsorc as crit is too great of a loss) effective damage becomes 11484. It is indeed very similar if I make it 5 heavy and add malacath.
The weapon damage loss and recovery isn't a huge loss, but enough IMO to make the healing received passive from heavy equal to a medium build. I have also lost significant ability to get to LOS fast via increased cost on sprint, roll dodge not to mention the significant loss of speed by removing wild Hunt. I can make all of these losses up, but I am looking at a significant loss in damage and recovery by trying to make up what I've lost. Which brings me closer to the effective damage in your builds. I could of course have master's s&b instead of BRP dw, but then I have lost passive damage and even more speed. Not to mention 100% uptime on my back bar glyphs. I may as well make a new build at this point.

Which is why I argue it isn't as simple as malacath is overturned. It is easily equal to my medium wild Hunt build, it just has a different route to mitigation Vs damage.

Xiomaro

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Xiomaro wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Xiomaro wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

dinokstrunz wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

dinokstrunz wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Nah. Theory crafting was really stale until they introduced mythics. Malacath was literally the only thing that brought me back to ESO after months of hiatus.

If anything needs to be nerfed, it's proc sets, not Malacath. Malacath opens up heavy armor for magicka builds and even makes some semi-hybrid builds viable. Nerfing it now would just be a major bummer, and I would probably cancel my sub again.

You mean it enabled super heavy tanks with the ability to do absurd damage with the minimal amount of effort. Sounds like quality game balancing. Theory crafting was really about finding bugs/exploits, see unfathomable for example. It's without a doubt one of the worst metas in ESO history.

Proc sets allowed that, not malacath. Malacath on a stat based heavy build isn't anything to fear... With the possible exception of mag/stamdk.

The best proc users are using Malacath. For Stamden and Stamcro Malacath is always the first consideration since you are able to be tanky without defensive sets. Malacath is super unhealthy for the game and everyone who tested it on Greymoor tests knew how ridiculous it was going to be. It's busted, both procs and malacath need toning down for sure.

Does malacath over perform on a stamden wearing fury/new moon heavy?

If you take procs out of the equation... yes. Playing a stat build right now is shooting yourself in the foot in some scenarios (no CP, for example).

Procs are overpowered but that doesn't mean Malacath isn't.

Without Malacath you have to make a decision. Do I want to do a lot of damage/burst or do I want to be a raid boss? Malacath removes that decision. Just run heavy armour and Malacath to get both. You can be a raid boss and blow people up with a Sub Assault/Blastbones combo.

I would like to see Malacath toned down if for no other reason than to make other mythics seem more viable. Wild Hunt ring, Torc of Tonal Constancy, Pale Order etc. They're all quite cool but if you're someone who like to make the best builds possible you're basically shooting yourself in the foot just to make an off meta build. There are some builds on some classes that work well with other mythics but for 90% of the best builds right now you run Malacath and procs. They're both busted.

I only wear malacath on my stamdk in heavy stat based. All my other stam chars are in medium and actually feel malacath is a shot in the foot in most cases in medium. I wear pale order with briar on my stamsorc and previously used torc. I use wild Hunt ring on my stamcro. I feel most mythics are as strong depending on what you're character lacks or what you want it to have.

I agree malacath takes less imagination, but outside of a proc build I think it's fine. I didn't have a problem with it during greymoor, which is the only time we have experienced it close to proc free with venomous smite being the only popular one and it requires a crit. That is just my opinion, but my point is I don't think anyone is able to discern between procs and malacath. Procs are overpowered without malacath, but I don't think malacath is overpowered without procs. Malacath allows you to build heavy, but procs allow you to build no damage at all.

Here is an example of what I mean. Stat builds with New Moon, Clever Alchemist and Balorgh. Only difference is, one uses Malacath/Heavy, the other uses Master's Bow/Medium. I've even shoved a Major Savagery buff on the medium armour build (crit pots or whatever) to give it a fighting chance.

No Malacath: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=299931
Yes Malacath: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=301053

Look at the grey number beside weapon damage. This is "effective weapon damage" which takes into account penetration, crit, opponent resists (I've set it to 27k) and opponent's crit resist (I've set it to 1350) and a bunch of other stuff.

The medium armour build does indeed edge out the heavy build in damage and the stam sustain is a little better. But the heavy build has more health, higher resists, more health recovery and more healing received.

Shove some impen gear on the opponent and the medium build falls right into line with the heavy build.

Oh and here's a build that builds a little more crit just for the sake of it: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=301067

Best case scenario - medium is a little better damage than a Malacath/heavy build at the cost of tankiness. Worst case scenario, it's the same damage with less survivability.

Edit: An exception to the Malacath thing is Stamblade/Sorcerer. They actually benefit from crits still.

To be honest with you that isn't a fair example of a medium build potential.

Look at my stamcro and stamsorc medium builds.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=296007 stamsorc

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=300426 stamcro

The effective damage is essentially double what you posted this isn't possible with malacath. These aren't glass cannons either they are pretty rounded builds. Of course using UESP to emphasise a point in PvP is largely redundant, as a proc build for instance would be way below 7k effective, but we know how strong they are.

Edit:
Apologies I read your comment again and didn't fairly address you points.

If I use your same parameters of 27k resists and 1350 crit resist the stamcros(I didn't use stamsorc as crit is too great of a loss) effective damage becomes 11484. It is indeed very similar if I make it 5 heavy and add malacath.
The weapon damage loss and recovery isn't a huge loss, but enough IMO to make the healing received passive from heavy equal to a medium build. I have also lost significant ability to get to LOS fast via increased cost on sprint, roll dodge not to mention the significant loss of speed by removing wild Hunt. I can make all of these losses up, but I am looking at a significant loss in damage and recovery by trying to make up what I've lost. Which brings me closer to the effective damage in your builds. I could of course have master's s&b instead of BRP dw, but then I have lost passive damage and even more speed. Not to mention 100% uptime on my back bar glyphs. I may as well make a new build at this point.

Which is why I argue it isn't as simple as malacath is overturned. It is easily equal to my medium wild Hunt build, it just has a different route to mitigation Vs damage.

My bad, I should have clarified that I was making no CP builds. They're both hitting ~11k effective weapon damage with CP enabled. But you're right, it perhaps wasn't the fairest comparison. It's not easy to make an apples to apples comparison between a Malacath and no Malacath build.

BaiterOfZergs

Ariades_swe wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

I couldn't say where class balance sits at the moment... Are we judging classes or proc sets!? Particularly warden synergises really well with the current meta with necro being a close second. After the change to major buffs in the last PTS cycle wardens should have lost significant power, but we went straight into a meta totally unreliant on stats.

Change proc sets to scale with offensive stats and let's actually play a patch to see where things really sit.

Excactly not many complained about stamdens a year ago when it was all about stats during the new moon/fury meta. It was all about templar jabs and dk leaps back then and before that petsorcs.
Stamden needs adjustment now I agree but people act like its been as unbalanced as now for years.

Stamden has been in the top for years and has been complained about ever since late 2017 early 2018 when everyone finally learned how to play them. And started running around with werewolf hide, seventh and bloodspawn. I can’t think of a period after that where they wasn’t top 3 for stam. In fact, most nerfs to the class was because of stamdens. They probably benefited from every meta besides scalebreaker.

Edit: For some context -

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4601393

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4815781

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4668893

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4726955

Waffennacht

I have 1 build that runs malacath with only Vateshran destroy as the proc - but that is pretty darn powerful

On essentially all my builds crit maxes out around 30% chance (cuz i dont build for it) malacath becomes a no-brainer in no CP

Lavum

Totally agree they should be removed. They were a great idea, but implementing them was completely botched. The design, completely botched. it's like they took a list of what not to do and just went with that.

angelofdeath333

Malacath is fine on its own tbh. most People who use it wear heavy in combination with defensive sets like endurance and EV. So they give up alot of damage for survivability by not wearing medium and something like fury,nma etc, and they cant crit. Were you around before greymoor? When everyone had like 7k weapon damage and crit was actually good? Or when dswing had tooltips of 18k and a knockback? You could heal through everything since damage was so high and that made you extremly tanky. So todays "tanks" are basically just a weaker version of that but now they rely on high health regen and high health, but they dont hit as Hard as they did in the Fury/nma meta. The real iissue with malacath is that it buff procsets, period.

notachik

So don’t remove them from the game but remove them from pvp areas..that’s the easiest solution.

Vignar_Giantsbane

I don't care if you nerf Malacath (I'm Ambivalent to it either way because I don't use it); but leave my Wild Hunt Ring alone.

Every single one of my chars uses it lol

MajThorax

Hands down from my pale order ring!

Matchimus

No. That run fast ring has made it bearable getting around my big home.

Sergykid

the band is severely out of their SBE (set bonus efficiency). But hey, chapter must sell

fred4

I don't think it's just procs nor just Malacath. It's health regen. I've been a fairly useless PvP tank when I tried health regen in previous years. Now I put on Alessian plus Eternal Vigor plus Malacath on my stam DK. Actually my friend did it first and, as he pointed out, his DOTs performed better than the ones from my medium armor DK, even though my DK had slightly better stats. I had more stam regen, but I needed it for active defense. I really struggled to heal his damage. That 4K Dizzying attack in the logs, yeah, I've seen that value. What's devastating about that is not the amount, though as someone pointed out it is decent. What's devastating is that a health regen build can stay on attack and hardly needs to care about a defensive rotation until they are in a 1vX. That 4K value is high in that context. There also seems to be a synergy between Malacath and DK DOTs or DOTs in general.

Incidentally health regen is an antidote to procs, at least DOT-based procs. Goes to show there is variety, I suppose, but when a heavy armor build outright does more damage than a medium armor one, something isn't quite right. This could be a factor with our respective builds, but my medium armor DK is pretty solid ... or so I thought. It is partly a function of the medium armor build being pushed into expensive defense skills, but I was also impressed by my own subsequent health-regen tank's PvE damage against IC bosses and in the last vVateshran round. It was slow in the latter, but still surprisingly good.

I don't like Malacath on all classes and I think it's just one part of a jigsaw that includes nerfs to crit chance, availability of health regen, buffs to potions and, yeah, procs. I do loathe the Vateshran destro at this point, although on a health regen damage tank even that is bearable.

Anotherone773

Mythic items and making 2 handed count as 2 items for sets were the best things added to combat in years. They brought a fresh twist to the same old nerf bat "balancing" we always get that involves a few people swapping a few things out for a few other things and making class X the new reigning champ of overperforming staleness.

Waffennacht

@fred4 im wondering if there was CP distribution that may have had an effect on that;

In BGs I struggle to see a major effect of pushing health regen high; something like EV is just good and is noticeable on a build vs a different set but pushing regen higher seems to make little difference (im not talkin WW here)

I would like to also point out medium is gonna primarily lean on Dodge Roll for defense and that wont help as much against a dot heavy build like it seemed you were facing (could be wrong tho)

Just seemed to me that your fight against your heavy DK friend may have been lopsided.

Skullstachio

Given how modular Battle spirit is from the devs POV, Why not add another effect to battle spirit that reduces proc damage on top of what it already has, experiment with it, if it doesn’t work out too well, reduce it until a middle ground can be found that results in stat based players can still kill tanks but tanks can be rewarded for tanking throughout the whole of PvP and proving to be hard to kill.

That way, proc sets aren’t as much of an issue in PVP, duels, etc. but still powerful in PvE that some players may enjoy them to their hearts content.

idk

I think the only gear we should have is no set bonus basic crafted gear (or drop) and we should be limited to upgrading go green. We would choose between light, medium, or heavy armor, and upgrade it to gold.

Think about how much that would solve.

relentless_turnip

idk wrote: »

I think the only gear we should have is no set bonus basic crafted gear (or drop) and we should be limited to upgrading go green. We would choose between light, medium, or heavy armor, and upgrade it to gold.

Think about how much that would solve.

It would definitely solve a lot, but it would also be very dull. I would still just prefer proc sets to have their base damage lowered to an equivalent skill, scale with offensive stats, crit also.

I think mythics really spiced up build craft, but malacath is always the better choice because it makes very defensive builds viable. Problem with proc sets especially paired with malacath is they broke the general rule of build craft. Which in my mind is compromise.
Particularly with proc sets not needing any offensive stats to be strong. Imagine if you had to pair a proc set with something that increases offensive stats and placing 64 attribute points in health ruined your offensive potential. The polar opposite is currently true.

idk

relentless_turnip wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I think the only gear we should have is no set bonus basic crafted gear (or drop) and we should be limited to upgrading go green. We would choose between light, medium, or heavy armor, and upgrade it to gold.

Think about how much that would solve.

It would definitely solve a lot, but it would also be very dull. I would still just prefer proc sets to have their base damage lowered to an equivalent skill, scale with offensive stats, crit also.

I think mythics really spiced up build craft, but malacath is always the better choice because it makes very defensive builds viable. Problem with proc sets especially paired with malacath is they broke the general rule of build craft. Which in my mind is compromise.
Particularly with proc sets not needing any offensive stats to be strong. Imagine if you had to pair a proc set with something that increases offensive stats and placing 64 attribute points in health ruined your offensive potential. The polar opposite is currently true.

I have long said damage procs need to scale. It would prevent very tanky builds from doing half decent damage. Beyond that, Zos has had problems managing combat in this game from the start. It is why we have heavy change to gearing pretty much every quarter.

xaraan

The only thing that makes malacath strong is that it gives decent damage to you if you are in heavy armor (since they can't rely on crits much anyhow, losing crit damage is no real sacrifice).

And same problem with a lot of procs even: be tanky, let your proc do damage.

Game just needs to put a maim, even a separate special version, to reduce damage of anyone in 5pc heavy armor.

It would greatly reduce effectiveness of tanks that do damage (tanking should be a thing, but high damage tanking: no). If you wanted to wear malacath's band, you'd be giving up crit if you were in med/light and it might actually be worth thinking about instead of a no-brainer to run. And if you ran it in heavy, it would pretty much be mitigated.

jaws343

With most of the talk on Malacath, I wonder if the curse of losing Crit damage is less of a curse and more of a boon for the 25% across the board damage increase.

At least with Pale Order, you lose direct healing from other players, relying on self heals and synergies to stay alive. The curse aspect is more impactful in that regard.

Maybe, Malacath needs to provide 25% damage increase, but as a trade off you lose your ability to do crit damage and you take 10% more crit damage. Boost the negative a bit, while still allowing the ring to be strong but making it hurt more to wear it.

VampireLordLover99

Mitaka211 wrote: »

Stahlor wrote: »

Mythics are op, proc sets are op, heals are op, shields are op, skills are op, Wardens are op, Necros are op... - how can we even play this game?

Mythics , proc sets, wardens and necros yes. I understand what you mean but at the time , yes these things are overperforming in comparison to everything else and need to be changed. My main is a templar , but i also have a fully geared stam necro ok, the difference in strenght is pretty damn apparent. The classes are really unbalanced and these mythic items + proc sets just blows it out of park comepletely.

OVerperforming?

Have you SEEN magcros?

They are literally the worst magicka spec in the entire game follow right behind magicka warden.

idk

jaws343 wrote: »

With most of the talk on Malacath, I wonder if the curse of losing Crit damage is less of a curse and more of a boon for the 25% across the board damage increase.

At least with Pale Order, you lose direct healing from other players, relying on self heals and synergies to stay alive. The curse aspect is more impactful in that regard.

Maybe, Malacath needs to provide 25% damage increase, but as a trade off you lose your ability to do crit damage and you take 10% more crit damage. Boost the negative a bit, while still allowing the ring to be strong but making it hurt more to wear it.

For proc sets, it is a boon altogether as procs do not crit. As such a proc build is gaining without dealing with a loss. As such the real issue is proc sets and people have been noting that for awhile now.

Hotdog_23

How about no. I love Mythic items. All of my characters have ring of wild hunt (18). The other one are fun to play around with also.

Stay safe and have fun

relentless_turnip

idk wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

With most of the talk on Malacath, I wonder if the curse of losing Crit damage is less of a curse and more of a boon for the 25% across the board damage increase.

At least with Pale Order, you lose direct healing from other players, relying on self heals and synergies to stay alive. The curse aspect is more impactful in that regard.

Maybe, Malacath needs to provide 25% damage increase, but as a trade off you lose your ability to do crit damage and you take 10% more crit damage. Boost the negative a bit, while still allowing the ring to be strong but making it hurt more to wear it.

For proc sets, it is a boon altogether as procs do not crit. As such a proc build is gaining without dealing with a loss. As such the real issue is proc sets and people have been noting that for awhile now.

Totally agree @idk 👍

UntouchableHunter

VampireLordLover99 wrote: »

Mitaka211 wrote: »

Stahlor wrote: »

Mythics are op, proc sets are op, heals are op, shields are op, skills are op, Wardens are op, Necros are op... - how can we even play this game?

Mythics , proc sets, wardens and necros yes. I understand what you mean but at the time , yes these things are overperforming in comparison to everything else and need to be changed. My main is a templar , but i also have a fully geared stam necro ok, the difference in strenght is pretty damn apparent. The classes are really unbalanced and these mythic items + proc sets just blows it out of park comepletely.

OVerperforming?

Have you SEEN magcros?

They are literally the worst magicka spec in the entire game follow right behind magicka warden.

Don't forget magdk. Magdk don't have absolutely nothing. A magdk must use proc sets to do something in this game. The worst class in this patch for sure.

Datolite

Is pale order even used in PvP? Seems like the 50% health nerf would make it kind of underwhelming.

relentless_turnip

Datolite wrote: »

Is pale order even used in PvP? Seems like the 50% health nerf would make it kind of underwhelming.

I use it, but it only works well on a pressure build like Templar, dw, magdk etc... I only use it as part of my healing too, having many sources of healing this patch is recommended 👍

On my stamsorc for instance you can see I have blade cloak, hurricane, rending and rapid strikes all providing constant damage and as a result incoming healing. I've paired it with seventh and briarheart, this allows me to run medium and have pretty decent damage.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=296007