Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild for all Classes

lyx10679

This discussion is more about your personal preference for the skill lines. Given the typical class that would traditionally fit both DB and TG is Nightblade, what other classes would you utilize for these skill lines? For example, would you make a Necromancer assassin or a Templar thief or would you stick with a class to fit the DB and/or TG archetype? I am very curious what other ESO players have done and if you have any thoughts or comments about these skill lines. NOTE: I have already done these skill quests on several toons. So I'm just curious about what other players have done and not looking for specific advice.

Yellow_Monolith

Dark Brotherhood and Thieves guild quests were a nightmare on anything not a nightblade. You'd constantly be punished by the games justice system for having the ability to not stealth cloak. If skills are added in the future, they should not be like how these skills were in punishing people. Also locking the story of the Dark brotherhood behind leveling the skill line was stupid.

Faulgor

I've done TG on a Templar and don't recall any significant issues. Sneaking is available to all, after all, preferably in medium armor (and appropriate sets).
If that's not enough, invisibility potions are another option. Vampirism helps too, I guess.

Not being a Nightblade means you have to get more creative, but the tools are there. Now that you mention it, I think I'll run my DK Khajiit tank through TG soon. Should be fun!

The skill lines themselves aren't geared for one class over another, I think. But I think a Khajiit's pickpocket and sneak passive would be the best fit for general thievery, so they might profit most from the fencing passives.

Zodiarkslayer

I started TG and DB on my Altmer Magsorc. Just switched attributes, cp, gear and a few morphes, not a full skill respec.
And viola! A thieving high Elf Dual Wielding Stam Sorc! It is totally enough for the Stories and the skill lines.

VaranisArano

My Breton Stam Sorc Silencer and Master Thief did fine on both questlines.

Between stealth gear, the hiding baskets, decent timing, and strategic invis pots, I didn't need a nightblade.

Now, if you were planning for perfect Heists/Sacraments, that might be different. I wouldn't know - I've done just enough of those to know I hate them.

Taggund

Thieves Guild i have completed on my stam NB, and may eventually do it on some other characters. However, if it does not seem in place with the character, I can't really see doing it.

I started Dark Brotherhood on my mag NB, but I did not care for running around killing innnocents. I don't expect to ever complete it on any character.

rpa

No prob doing DB/Thieves with any class. Heists and sacraments are all about learning the map and where the stealth detect guards slowly ooze. (Too bad.) And while you may not be able to steal pants NPCs are wearing with base stealth, with careful timing you will get the strongboxes and murders done.

Of course, if you are buiding a new stealth char from scratch, a khajit nb vampire with stealth sets may be a good choice.

zaria

Faulgor wrote: »

I've done TG on a Templar and don't recall any significant issues. Sneaking is available to all, after all, preferably in medium armor (and appropriate sets).
If that's not enough, invisibility potions are another option. Vampirism helps too, I guess.

Not being a Nightblade means you have to get more creative, but the tools are there. Now that you mention it, I think I'll run my DK Khajiit tank through TG soon. Should be fun!

The skill lines themselves aren't geared for one class over another, I think. But I think a Khajiit's pickpocket and sneak passive would be the best fit for general thievery, so they might profit most from the fencing passives.

This, cleared it on magsorc, magplar, two DK tanks in addition to NB, in fact i did not use cloak much at all.
Granted all was Khajiit but I also did not bother with sneak distance reduction sets until the magplar who was the last doing the quests. They give lots of skill points so did them for this, also enjoy the quest.

Run medium armor the crafted set who increase movement speed in sneak unless vamp and a sneak detection radius set or two.

Everstorm

Being a Khajiit is probably a bigger advantage than being a nightblade.

(Obligatory fist shake at ZOS for disregarding Bosmer lore)

LannStone

Taggund wrote: »

I started Dark Brotherhood on my mag NB, but I did not care for running around killing innnocents. I don't expect to ever complete it on any character.

I also only saw a nightblade khajit as appropriate for the role, so the question is moot to me. As far as killing the "innocents," I had to pretend they actually did something bad to deserve it - although that is kinda lame when you're picking out a half dozen NPCs in a city at random to fulfill a quest:) Guess that's why I could only do it a khajit, because they have a way of justifying their behavior in their own minds.

iksde

everyone here talk it is possible to get it done with other classes than NB, right but you need to switch specially full gear and even build for this yes? as I see what some people are doing to be able to do it, ok

but the funnies thing it is is that on every other class you need to change your build, setup, morphs for this while on nb you dont need, you dont need to pay for any change, for special gear for this, just use cloak and it is enough and it is even more than enough with mythic ring of the wild hunt without need to invest a single piece of gold to do this content in compare to other classes

ghost_bg_ESO

i'm doing DB on all characters i starting to play longer (Shadow Rider – Aggression radius from hostile monsters is decreased by 50% while mounted (Unlocked at Dark Brotherhood rank 7)) and TG when i have time until i unlock better lvl for stealing passives and bounty.
usually i progress lenderdemain a bit and craft night's silence medium for (5 items) Ignore movement speed penalty while sneaking. don't even bother to respc skills or CP as quests are not something high power demanding.

rpa

iksde wrote: »

everyone here talk it is possible to get it done with other classes than NB, right but you need to switch specially full gear and even build for this yes? as I see what some people are doing to be able to do it, ok

but the funnies thing it is is that on every other class you need to change your build, setup, morphs for this while on nb you dont need, you dont need to pay for any change, for special gear for this, just use cloak and it is enough and it is even more than enough with mythic ring of the wild hunt without need to invest a single piece of gold to do this content in compare to other classes

No, you do not need to be particulary stealthy to play thru DB & Thieves guild if you mind your timing. Being built for stealth makes parts of it easier, that's all.

Khajiitihaswares

Buddy_Cactus wrote: »

Dark Brotherhood and Thieves guild quests were a nightmare on anything not a nightblade. You'd constantly be punished by the games justice system for having the ability to not stealth cloak. If skills are added in the future, they should not be like how these skills were in punishing people. Also locking the story of the Dark brotherhood behind leveling the skill line was stupid.

I did it on a sorc and had zero issues.... >_> Like wut? It is hugely easier on a nightblade this is true. But still doable on other chars.

NaomiHutt

You can do them both with any race and any class. To make things easier just craft sets that give a bonis to sneak and lower detection, also maxing your legerdemain and crafting invisibility pots can make things really easy.

It all depends if your willing to put in that little extra effort in before hand to prepare.

Tryxus

I did both guilds on my Warden and my Templar. The Thieves Guild skill line is pretty handy to have in case of "accidental" bounties, and the Shadowy Supplier and Shadow Rider passives from DB are nice as well

I gave them a full set of the Shadow Dancer set and 3 pieces of Night Terror plus some Invis pots (both Rogue and homemade). It made Heists and Sacraments very easy

VaranisArano

iksde wrote: »

everyone here talk it is possible to get it done with other classes than NB, right but you need to switch specially full gear and even build for this yes? as I see what some people are doing to be able to do it, ok

but the funnies thing it is is that on every other class you need to change your build, setup, morphs for this while on nb you dont need, you dont need to pay for any change, for special gear for this, just use cloak and it is enough and it is even more than enough with mythic ring of the wild hunt without need to invest a single piece of gold to do this content in compare to other classes

Meh. I can't stand nightblades. Maybe its really that much easier on one, but there was no way I was playing a nightblade for TG amd DB.

Stealth gear made it easier and I'd invest in it on any character who's going to farm NPCs via pick, pick, stab. It's cheap or easy to get from overland farming, and its not like it hampers the sort of gameplay you get with pick, pick, stab. Its mostly sneaking and occasionally running away.

I've run "stealth-based missions" on my completely non-stealthy MagDK though. It requires going slow and paying attention to timing, pathing, line of sight, and hoping you get to a basket in time. If you want to do it fast and efficiently, you invest in stealth or you play a nightblade.

(BTW, can I rant about ZOS throwing stealth-based missions into normal questlines? My MagDK was doing Murkmire when the quest sent her stumbling into this camp owned by a rival company, and the NPCs were like "Please don't kill anyone even though they'll attack if they see you! They're legally innocent, you know. Don't get caught!"

My very non-stealthy, but fairly heroic MagDK: "Well, eff..."

I made it out without killing anyone or getting caught, but ugh. It was unpleasant and there wasn't even the opportunity to go back to town and make invis pots because it was a segment in the middle of a quest.)

Raideen

I wish there was stealth based gear for magicka users. Too much stamina centricity in this game.

Tandor

I've completed the Thieves Guild and started the Dark Brotherhood on a dark elf nightblade envisaged by me as a drow assassin, but wouldn't touch either with my Imperial templar envisaged by me as a lawful good paladin. Beyond that kind of thing I am not a role-player where ESO is concerned but I do take that particular distinction seriously.

The major problem I have with the Imperial templar is that every time he does an event or new content he's at risk of getting partway through something and then having to stop because it involves stealing. When such things arise outside of the actual Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood content there needs to be an alternative way of completing the task or quest.

VaranisArano

Tandor wrote: »

I've completed the Thieves Guild and started the Dark Brotherhood on a dark elf nightblade envisaged by me as a drow assassin, but wouldn't touch either with my Imperial templar envisaged by me as a lawful good paladin. Beyond that kind of thing I am not a role-player where ESO is concerned but I do take that particular distinction seriously.

The major problem I have with the Imperial templar is that every time he does an event or new content he's at risk of getting partway through something and then having to stop because it involves stealing. When such things arise outside of the actual Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood content there needs to be an alternative way of completing the task or quest.

Yeah, isn't there one quest in the middle of Greenshade main story that involves breaking into houses? I remember thinking "Man, that would kinda suck for anyone who's playing an honest character rather than a morally slippery Eye of the Queen."

Of course, the TES games do tend to force our main character's hands when it comes to morally questionable deeds. Daggerfall requires stealing a painting. Morrowind requires stealing a skull for a known necromancer, etc.

Vevvev

All the story quests, heists, and sacraments are balanced around the player not having any boosts to sneaking. If anyone is having trouble the best thing I can offer is be patient and have a plan to escape one the timers come into play. Also equip some kind of speed boost ability or potion. Invisibility pots work as well.

Faulgor

Raideen wrote: »

I wish there was stealth based gear for magicka users. Too much stamina centricity in this game.

Shadow Dancer.
Stygian, kinda of.
Darloc Brae is stat-agnostic.

Tandor

VaranisArano wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I've completed the Thieves Guild and started the Dark Brotherhood on a dark elf nightblade envisaged by me as a drow assassin, but wouldn't touch either with my Imperial templar envisaged by me as a lawful good paladin. Beyond that kind of thing I am not a role-player where ESO is concerned but I do take that particular distinction seriously.

The major problem I have with the Imperial templar is that every time he does an event or new content he's at risk of getting partway through something and then having to stop because it involves stealing. When such things arise outside of the actual Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood content there needs to be an alternative way of completing the task or quest.

Yeah, isn't there one quest in the middle of Greenshade main story that involves breaking into houses? I remember thinking "Man, that would kinda suck for anyone who's playing an honest character rather than a morally slippery Eye of the Queen."

Of course, the TES games do tend to force our main character's hands when it comes to morally questionable deeds. Daggerfall requires stealing a painting. Morrowind requires stealing a skull for a known necromancer, etc.

That will be a problem for my templar as he's on Cadwell's Silver at the moment and will be headed to Greenshade once he's finished Grahtwood.

Taleof2Cities

Raideen wrote: »

I wish there was stealth based gear for magicka users. Too much stamina centricity in this game.

I used invisibility potions on my Templar Healer and Dragonknight Tank for the Thieves Guild heists and did fine, @Raideen.

VaranisArano

Tandor wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I've completed the Thieves Guild and started the Dark Brotherhood on a dark elf nightblade envisaged by me as a drow assassin, but wouldn't touch either with my Imperial templar envisaged by me as a lawful good paladin. Beyond that kind of thing I am not a role-player where ESO is concerned but I do take that particular distinction seriously.

The major problem I have with the Imperial templar is that every time he does an event or new content he's at risk of getting partway through something and then having to stop because it involves stealing. When such things arise outside of the actual Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood content there needs to be an alternative way of completing the task or quest.

Yeah, isn't there one quest in the middle of Greenshade main story that involves breaking into houses? I remember thinking "Man, that would kinda suck for anyone who's playing an honest character rather than a morally slippery Eye of the Queen."

Of course, the TES games do tend to force our main character's hands when it comes to morally questionable deeds. Daggerfall requires stealing a painting. Morrowind requires stealing a skull for a known necromancer, etc.

That will be a problem for my templar as he's on Cadwell's Silver at the moment and will be headed to Greenshade once he's finished Grahtwood.

I hope I'm misremembering because I did it all at once due to pre-One Tamriel questing. After double checking, I think I'm thinking of the quest "The Artisan", which happens in Marbruk, the first city in Greenshade. The quest requires breaking into a locked house while looking for evidence to catch a thief. Fortunately, its not part of the main zone story.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

This is one of the better arguments in my opinion for some sort of account wide achievements. I have done these both on my NB, but for my main quester, my Mag DK, well, he is a good guy. I wont ever do these quests with him.

kargen27

Tandor wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I've completed the Thieves Guild and started the Dark Brotherhood on a dark elf nightblade envisaged by me as a drow assassin, but wouldn't touch either with my Imperial templar envisaged by me as a lawful good paladin. Beyond that kind of thing I am not a role-player where ESO is concerned but I do take that particular distinction seriously.

The major problem I have with the Imperial templar is that every time he does an event or new content he's at risk of getting partway through something and then having to stop because it involves stealing. When such things arise outside of the actual Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood content there needs to be an alternative way of completing the task or quest.

Yeah, isn't there one quest in the middle of Greenshade main story that involves breaking into houses? I remember thinking "Man, that would kinda suck for anyone who's playing an honest character rather than a morally slippery Eye of the Queen."

Of course, the TES games do tend to force our main character's hands when it comes to morally questionable deeds. Daggerfall requires stealing a painting. Morrowind requires stealing a skull for a known necromancer, etc.

That will be a problem for my templar as he's on Cadwell's Silver at the moment and will be headed to Greenshade once he's finished Grahtwood.

Maybe take advice from a hero in a different universe? The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. And if you still feel remorse pay penance in some way. Just don't make a habit of sneaking into other's abodes.
I have one character that no matter the consequences told the truth when presented with the choice of that or a lie while doing all the quests. That is about as close to role playing as I get. I do have a Khajiit that is a bit racist and will only wear Khajiit crafted gear and doesn't allow anything but Khajiit furniture in his home (not counting a few basic items like buckets).

VaranisArano

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

This is one of the better arguments in my opinion for some sort of account wide achievements. I have done these both on my NB, but for my main quester, my Mag DK, well, he is a good guy. I wont ever do these quests with him.

Or its a strong argument for not having account-wide achievements, since there are some roleplayers who really don't want their goody-two shoes characters having those achievements.

Its hard to make everyone happy.

JamuThatsWho

All you need is a stack of Invis Pots and you'll be fine.

Hotdog_23

Ring of the wild hunt for all stamina non-vamp characters is great for these quest along with Invis Pots.

Be safe and have fun

Oreyn_Bearclaw

VaranisArano wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

This is one of the better arguments in my opinion for some sort of account wide achievements. I have done these both on my NB, but for my main quester, my Mag DK, well, he is a good guy. I wont ever do these quests with him.

Or its a strong argument for not having account-wide achievements, since there are some roleplayers who really don't want their goody-two shoes characters having those achievements.

Its hard to make everyone happy.

@VaranisArano

I have long advocated for a separate achievement tab. Leave the current character tabs exactly how they are, but add a separate account wide tab. Seems to be the best of both worlds. I would probably remove titles from the account wide tab, but would really care if they were account wide at this point.