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Bad Dps in Dungeons
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iksde✭✭✭✭Nordic__Knights wrote: »
I find it hard to believe your going to farm vet dlc content for gear when its 10x easier on normal and same gear. But to each their own. But id say the vast majority of players farm normal dungeons for gear. so to say that normal dungeons are only for new players is compeltely false.
GF is for EVERY lvl play style , skill lvl , ect ect reason one should act respectful when using it as you dont know if its an player missing an hand or an 8 year old kid to an 90 year old female enjoying her day too
sorry but as old people can be here along with other their own problems this is their thing, they always can inform before start of dung or when someone is having problem in group for them, communication is a key as in threads like this it was mentioned but when nobody is excusing what, why they are doing not good then it is not fault of players who kicked someone because there was lack of any response, communication
and about kids...they shouldn't be here anyway, just scroll down even here on forum to find this
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MirandaSharp✭✭✭✭Vet elden hollow this morning... our group was shaky, one of the dps had really low health but we made it through. On the final boss, the tank rushed in and started attacking the final boss. About a quarter into the boss’ health bar, the tank disengaged and left the boss room and went to the room before the boss room and stood there for the rest of the fight. No explanation as to what upset them or why.
Communicate good and bad, your group mates may not be mindreaders.
My guess is he wanted to reset the fight to get HM... But of course he needs to tell people that too.. Maybe he didn't speak any English? That happens now and then in pugs on EU server.2 -
NightSky✭✭✭That's nothing.. you know what's worst when your Healer turns into a Werewolf, your tank has 14k HP and the DPS is in Heavy Armor, using a Restoration staff and a Two Handed Sword on the Back-bar."For everything you gain, you lose something else."4 -
MirandaSharp✭✭✭✭To give a sadly not unique example, just now I did vet Direfrost. One DD never moved from the door and said nothing, so half way through we kicked them. A new DD joined the group just in time for the last boss. He would not break free when the boss targeted him, so the boss would heal and this DD died constantly. We revived him each time, but he then raged at the tank for "not taunting"... I explained the tank can't prevent that attack and he needed to break free... But more all caps rage. Then he left the group, messaged me "stop telling me how to play", and I assume blocked me because I could not send a reply.
I bet he then went onto this forum to write his rage off about how he hates fake tanking!
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Nordic__Knights✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nordic__Knights wrote: »
I find it hard to believe your going to farm vet dlc content for gear when its 10x easier on normal and same gear. But to each their own. But id say the vast majority of players farm normal dungeons for gear. so to say that normal dungeons are only for new players is compeltely false.
GF is for EVERY lvl play style , skill lvl , ect ect reason one should act respectful when using it as you dont know if its an player missing an hand or an 8 year old kid to an 90 year old female enjoying her day too
sorry but as old people can be here along with other their own problems this is their thing, they always can inform before start of dung or when someone is having problem in group for them, communication is a key as in threads like this it was mentioned but when nobody is excusing what, why they are doing not good then it is not fault of players who kicked someone because there was lack of any response, communication
and about kids...they shouldn't be here anyway, just scroll down even here on forum to find this
thing is they are ps4 has birth dates on profile but yet even my kids whos under 17 can buy and play ESO on them accounts when it states their under age limits set by game rating and idk any other site that has you show ID to get game so just because something shouldn't be here doesn't mean there not as i believe ZOS DIDNT WANTED TOXIC PLAYERS IN THEIR GAME BUT GUESS WHAT THEIR HERE TOOEdited by Nordic__Knights on December 7, 2020 7:40PM0 -
RageKing✭✭✭✭I just find it so inconsiderate to que as a dps when you are at champion level and put out less dps than healer or tank. I take it as mindfully attempting to make others gameplay less enjoyable so they can take up your slack.
And the defense that "it takes too much time and training to get decent dps" is beyond wrong and valuntary ignorant as its doesnt take much effort to hit 20kdps which i find to be the minimal dps one should put out when queing as a dps.
Anything otherwise is a blatant attempt to spit in my face and say "I want to complete this group content but i dont want to put in the effort to help out the group".3 -
SshadowSscale✭✭✭✭✭
I find it hard to believe your going to farm vet dlc content for gear when its 10x easier on normal and same gear. But to each their own. But id say the vast majority of players farm normal dungeons for gear. so to say that normal dungeons are only for new players is compeltely false.
Purple jewelry only drops from vet.... I am not spending the gold to upgrade blue quality jewelry so yes I will farm vet for my gear thank you.5 -
El_Borracho✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭If you join a veteran dungeon group, you are expected to know the mechanics. Vet ICP isn't that difficult for people who have run it a few times, but it IS difficult if you have never run it and don't know mechanics. Normal gives you a pretty decent intro to the mechanics in vet ICP. Do that first. Maybe look at a walkthrough guide on the internet. Jumping in because you want to get a helm or motif is not a good excuse to skip this.
Plus, no food? Come on. That means someone spent hours seeing food in the game and not even trying it.
Yes, this is a game and its supposed to be fun. But its not fun dragging someone around a veteran dungeon that they have put in zero effort preparing for. Dying a lot while bow spamming without food sounds like zero preparation. This isn't a solo activity which doesn't impact others. Its a vet group DLC dungeon. So why should 3 people have no fun because someone wants to run vet ICP without knowing a single thing about vet ICP?
I think OP was very nice for doing what he did, but it overlooks the bigger problem. Its not the 2 players voting to kick someone, its one player not recognizing that more is required before jumping into a vet DLC dungeon.4 -
El_Borracho✭✭✭✭✭
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Who leaves an normal dungeon because of low level players? Who is most likely to be alts anyway.LordSarevok wrote: »I main quite a few tanks and healers. I can tell on the first trash pack what the dps looks like. If it's terrible and takes forever, I just leave group and take my penalty. It's faster to eat a penalty and start over, than slogging through the dungeon with 10k total dps. I do not buy the excuse of them not knowing. It's literally everywhere online in text and in depth videos on how to be decent dps. I'm not asking for 70+.
Smart of you to wait for at least the first trash pull. The other day I was in a group with 2 friends, all of us on lowbie alts. The tank ported in and nearly immediately left. Sure hope they didn’t do it to save time because their penalty was definitely longer than it took us to trio the dungeon (nSpinclutch
). We had to chuckle at that.
I did recently, @zaria. Queued for a daily random on a real tank, not a DPS in disguise. Got normal WGT. They couldn't clear the third trash pack before entering the tower. Kept them alive, but it was like beating a concrete wall with a wet noodle. I can assure you the penalty was shorter than completing that dungeon. First time that has happened to me.5 -
RageKing✭✭✭✭
And the fact that you spent alot of time in game means you should know the game and not be carried through group content while you wear RP gear.2 -
El_Borracho✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭SshadowSscale wrote: »
I find it hard to believe your going to farm vet dlc content for gear when its 10x easier on normal and same gear. But to each their own. But id say the vast majority of players farm normal dungeons for gear. so to say that normal dungeons are only for new players is compeltely false.
Purple jewelry only drops from vet.... I am not spending the gold to upgrade blue quality jewelry so yes I will farm vet for my gear thank you.
Given the timing of OP's encounter, I'm guessing the DPS in question was farming opal motifs as part of the event. Maybe they wanted a Lord Warden helm, but the lack of food and bow spamming doesn't support that.1 -
renne✭✭✭✭✭
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And the fact that you spent alot of time in game means you should know the game and not be carried through group content while you wear RP gear.
You literally answered it yourself there. People spend a lot of time in game doing overland stuff RPing. That doesn't learn them almost anything about doing group content, but it also doesn't tell them that it's a different experience either, so then a Doing Dungeons Event comes up and they're like "yeah, I'll give it a spin".
They have high CP so they look like they should be better than they are but they're not because CP level is NOT indicative of skill level.7 -
iksde✭✭✭✭Nordic__Knights wrote: »Nordic__Knights wrote: »
I find it hard to believe your going to farm vet dlc content for gear when its 10x easier on normal and same gear. But to each their own. But id say the vast majority of players farm normal dungeons for gear. so to say that normal dungeons are only for new players is compeltely false.
GF is for EVERY lvl play style , skill lvl , ect ect reason one should act respectful when using it as you dont know if its an player missing an hand or an 8 year old kid to an 90 year old female enjoying her day too
sorry but as old people can be here along with other their own problems this is their thing, they always can inform before start of dung or when someone is having problem in group for them, communication is a key as in threads like this it was mentioned but when nobody is excusing what, why they are doing not good then it is not fault of players who kicked someone because there was lack of any response, communication
and about kids...they shouldn't be here anyway, just scroll down even here on forum to find this
thing is they are ps4 has birth dates on profile but yet even my kids whos under 17 can buy and play ESO on them accounts when it states their under age limits set by game rating and idk any other site that has you show ID to get game so just because something shouldn't be here doesn't mean there not as i believe ZOS DIDNT WANTED TOXIC PLAYERS IN THEIR GAME BUT GUESS WHAT THEIR HERE TOO
yes as something that "shoudn't" be and it is then it is not other players fault as like kid who doesn't understand yet many aspects of mmo game shouldn't be treated like special snowlake before disapoitment, nervous of other players at them because they arn't able to do what they should do for what they signed like going on dung for which they are not ready
we don't need or maybe we even shouldn't to blame kid for ths because he can be to young, not informed of so many aspects of online game (ahh good old day playing runescape when having maybe 10 years xD), it is just kid but still as it is online gaming we have rights to be angry when we get him in dung and he wont communicate with us or wont be able to do his job for which he queued so we still have right to kick him from group anyway, we are not forced to carry him just because he is kid not understanding yet how game works1 -
KaGaOri✭✭✭✭The problem is, that ESO does poor job teaching players to put out decent damage. It gives no feedback on how much dps toon does and lets player get away with spaming LA + HA + (maybe) one ability through entirety of base game. When such player steps into those really easy "beginner level" dungeons, they get put in group with one or more end game players farming gear there, who effortlessly carry them. Then these dds waltz into vet, or even just harder normals with same playstyle and what's this? They are acctually expected to do stuff here? What a twist!
There should be some sort of table with everyone's contributions at the end of dungeon (maybe after each boss + final one?), similar to battlegrounds scores. If player's dps sucks, the game should tell them right then and there. Plus the game should have content getting progressively harder, giving incentive to get better. If everything out of dungeons dies in two hits, you can hardly fault players for not knowing how to interrupt (yes, that used to be me - why interrupt, if you can kill it with same ammount of clicks?). Average player won't google guides and builds or spend hours hitting dummy for practice. They will just play the game with the knowledge and skill the game itself bestowed on them (which, saddly, isn't much).5 -
RageKing✭✭✭✭The problem is, that ESO does poor job teaching players to put out decent damage. It gives no feedback on how much dps toon does and lets player get away with spaming LA + HA + (maybe) one ability through entirety of base game. When such player steps into those really easy "beginner level" dungeons, they get put in group with one or more end game players farming gear there, who effortlessly carry them. Then these dds waltz into vet, or even just harder normals with same playstyle and what's this? They are acctually expected to do stuff here? What a twist!
There should be some sort of table with everyone's contributions at the end of dungeon (maybe after each boss + final one?), similar to battlegrounds scores. If player's dps sucks, the game should tell them right then and there. Plus the game should have content getting progressively harder, giving incentive to get better. If everything out of dungeons dies in two hits, you can hardly fault players for not knowing how to interrupt (yes, that used to be me - why interrupt, if you can kill it with same ammount of clicks?). Average player won't google guides and builds or spend hours hitting dummy for practice. They will just play the game with the knowledge and skill the game itself bestowed on them (which, saddly, isn't much).
I remember when you had group damage addon where you can see peoples DPS, and there was OUTRAGE. People were complaining that they felt their privacy invaded and felt shamed for having low dps...etc so ZoS patched the game so you could no longer view others dps.
I would love them to do this for End of Dungeon view page or something and you can view all your stats. Sadly ZoS caters to the softest of the player base so probably wont implement such a thing.4 -
eovogtb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭I have never farmed a normal dungeon for gear since I started doing good dps. Even vet dlcs never even done a normal dlc. It's just as fast to do vet dlcs and vet dungeons on vet with good dps than it is on normal with bad dps.Edited by eovogtb16_ESO on December 8, 2020 12:35AM3
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Miszou✭✭✭✭✭
✭I remember when you had group damage addon where you can see peoples DPS, and there was OUTRAGE. People were complaining that they felt their privacy invaded and felt shamed for having low dps...etc so ZoS patched the game so you could no longer view others dps.
I would love them to do this for End of Dungeon view page or something and you can view all your stats. Sadly ZoS caters to the softest of the player base so probably wont implement such a thing.
It doesn't need to show actual numbers, just a simple grid with only your name showing in one row (and "Anonymous" for the other 3 players) and 3 (maybe 4) columns each containing a percentage value of damage dealt, healing done, damage received and damage blocked.
That takes care of all 3 roles, no one gets to see the name of the lowest person and no one gets butt hurt about the numbers.
You could even go one step further and just eliminate the other 3 players stats entirely, so it would only show your percentages in the dungeon. Then you can look at the numbers and be like "yep, I'm a badass" or "zomg, I only did 8% of all the dmg!"Edited by Miszou on December 8, 2020 12:37AM6 -
MrBrownstone✭✭✭✭✭
✭eovogtb16_ESO wrote: »I have never farmed a normal dungeon for gear since I started doing good dps. Even vet dlcs never even done a normal dlc. It's just as fast to do vet dlcs and vet dungeons on vet with good dps than it is on normal with bad dps.
Farming on normal is crap, blue jewelry and there is usually at least one below cp160 player which means wasted drops. I never ever play normal dungeons, waste of timeEdited by MrBrownstone on December 8, 2020 12:41AM4 -
FrancisCrawford✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭RodneyRegis wrote: »A lot of people suggest a bare minimum of DPS/HP etc for dungeons. How about for a pug you port into a hallway where there's an add - with 100hp. You have to kill it in 10s or it one shots you. more HP for harder dungeons, less for easy.
Tank has to survive a one-shot for 40k damage (unblocked). Healer has to stop an npc getting killed by an ad for a few seconds.
Once you're done you go through the door and start the dungeon.
Or just do that once as a prerequisite to queuing for each level of dungeon on each character for a certain role. Would take 30 seconds and at least show that that character/player is able to deal with the role they are queuing for. Vet players would just do the hardest level and be able to queue for any dungeon, whilst leveling players would need to do each level as they got stronger.
Good thoughts. A VERY SHORT test could be reasonably required for every character, for every role, to unlock the ability to queue. Make it a quest with a non trivial reward (even just a transmute crystal or key), and people might not even mind. And substantially the same test might have two or three levels of difficulty.
The tanking test could be taunting, chaining and surviving, while NPCs kill the mobs.
The healing test could be straight healing, or it could take account of buffing/debuffing/battery. If the latter, there probably would be some awkwardness around whether it accounted for your DPS too.3 -
renne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MrBrownstone wrote: »eovogtb16_ESO wrote: »I have never farmed a normal dungeon for gear since I started doing good dps. Even vet dlcs never even done a normal dlc. It's just as fast to do vet dlcs and vet dungeons on vet with good dps than it is on normal with bad dps.
Farming on normal is crap, blue jewelry and there is usually at least one below cp160 player which means wasted drops. I never ever play normal dungeons, waste of time
To be fair, with the stickerbook, how much easier it is to farm transmutes without having to wait for a campaign to tick over, and reconstruction, sub CP160 drops aren't actually a waste now. That said, in a vet dungeon you'll never get a chest below intermediate, which means you're always going to get something (purple) drop from it, unlike normal dungeons with simple chests.2 -
LashanW✭✭✭✭✭
✭OP I get what you are trying to say about inexperienced/new players. But come on, if you tried to communicate with random people in dungeons a lot over the past years you'd already know the answer to this question,MrBrownstone wrote: »Why people can't bother with pointing others' mistakes? It takes zero effort.
There are 3 types of inexperienced/newer players in PUG veteran dungeons,- People who'd like to learn how to get better (some of these wonderful fellas actually ask first for advice)
- People who don't care about getting any better (and often react very aggressively when confronted about their performance)
- People who don't communicate (perhaps due to language barrier)
---No longer active in ESO---
Platform: PC-EU
CP: 2500+Trial Achievements
Godslayer, Gryphon Heart, Tick-Tock Tormentor, Immortal Redeemer, Dro-m'Athra Destroyer, vMoL no death
Arena Achievements
vMA Flawless, vVH Spirit Slayer
DLC Dungeon Trifectas
Scalecaller Peak, Fang Lair, Depths of Malatar, Icereach1 -
geonsocal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭anyone know the percentage drop of a monster set from a normal dungeon...
I heard it happens, just not very often...
I'd like to pick up thurvokun in fang lair...if there's a decent chance (20% maybe) of the head piece dropping I'd definitely prefer farming it on normal...PVP Campaigns Section: Playstation NA and EU (Gray Host) - This Must be the Place0 -
renne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭anyone know the percentage drop of a monster set from a normal dungeon...
I heard it happens, just not very often...
I'd like to pick up thurvokun in fang lair...if there's a decent chance (20% maybe) of the head piece dropping I'd definitely prefer farming it on normal...
I've never seen a monster set drop on normal. It's not 20%. If anything it would be like 0.0000000000002% chance. I'm pretty sure they only drop on vet. If you don't want to run vet, you'll have to wait on it turning up on the Golden vendor some weekend.Edited by renne on December 8, 2020 6:20AM1 -
vgabor✭✭✭✭✭
✭You could even go one step further and just eliminate the other 3 players stats entirely, so it would only show your percentages in the dungeon. Then you can look at the numbers and be like "yep, I'm a badass" or "zomg, I only did 8% of all the dmg!"
^ This. Just showing your own stats within your group in 3*2 column: group dps and your own percentage in it, group hps and your own percentage in it, group damage taken and your own percentage in it. Then all dps, healer, tank would see their own contribution for their roles.
Edited by vgabor on December 8, 2020 6:58AM3 -
Ackwalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SidraWillowsky wrote: »I'm noticing a weird and consistent dichotomy as of late. I'm a DD, and one of two things always happens in my pug groups. This is any dungeon and occurs in both norm and vet. I typically pull 40-50k on bosses on my main.
1. I pull 75-80% of group DPS, or
2. I pull what I assume is roughly the same as the other DPS
The other DD's DPS is either pretty low or really high. This seems to be evidence of the skill gap getting *wider*, not narrower. I don't know how that can happen when ZOS is apparently making concerted efforts to narrow the skill gap.
A lot of people use the same gear and skills whether grouped or not. When I'm running solo on my ND I use a balance of offensive and defense. When I group up I switch to an offensive build. People just seem to think that 1 build is good for all content.2 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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Had an couple of them but then its that you come to the first boss or even trash and know this will not work.El_Borracho wrote: »
Who leaves an normal dungeon because of low level players? Who is most likely to be alts anyway.LordSarevok wrote: »I main quite a few tanks and healers. I can tell on the first trash pack what the dps looks like. If it's terrible and takes forever, I just leave group and take my penalty. It's faster to eat a penalty and start over, than slogging through the dungeon with 10k total dps. I do not buy the excuse of them not knowing. It's literally everywhere online in text and in depth videos on how to be decent dps. I'm not asking for 70+.
Smart of you to wait for at least the first trash pull. The other day I was in a group with 2 friends, all of us on lowbie alts. The tank ported in and nearly immediately left. Sure hope they didn’t do it to save time because their penalty was definitely longer than it took us to trio the dungeon (nSpinclutch ). We had to chuckle at that.
I did recently, @zaria. Queued for a daily random on a real tank, not a DPS in disguise. Got normal WGT. They couldn't clear the third trash pack before entering the tower. Kept them alive, but it was like beating a concrete wall with a wet noodle. I can assure you the penalty was shorter than completing that dungeon. First time that has happened to me.
But I say its more headless chickens with no food and no communication.
Edited by zaria on December 8, 2020 7:28AMGrinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.1 -
Kwoung✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Perhaps a training dummy that actually fights back and kills you if you don't follow the mechanics (yeah those are the actual monsters in the world but would be cool to have one in my house).
Actually, there is an "Arena" house with a training area built in, why it is not available for purchase all the time is beyond me. I have been waiting to buy it for my guild, because it would be an amazing place to bring new players to practice. It isn't actually mobs, but it has 3 different types of traps/mechanics to avoid... blades, lava bombs & lightning bolts, and they hurt A LOT if you get caught in them.
If this home were commonly available and not a "special edition", I am pretty sure all DPS numbers would be based on doing a rotation there against the trial dummy, while trying to stay out of stupid. It is also a great place to test builds that require you to lose health, or practicing a healer rotation too for that matter.
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SidraWillowsky✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭SidraWillowsky wrote: »I'm noticing a weird and consistent dichotomy as of late. I'm a DD, and one of two things always happens in my pug groups. This is any dungeon and occurs in both norm and vet. I typically pull 40-50k on bosses on my main.
1. I pull 75-80% of group DPS, or
2. I pull what I assume is roughly the same as the other DPS
The other DD's DPS is either pretty low or really high. This seems to be evidence of the skill gap getting *wider*, not narrower. I don't know how that can happen when ZOS is apparently making concerted efforts to narrow the skill gap.
A lot of people use the same gear and skills whether grouped or not. When I'm running solo on my ND I use a balance of offensive and defense. When I group up I switch to an offensive build. People just seem to think that 1 build is good for all content.
I guess I'm coming from a perspective where I wear the same gear and use the same skills in 95% of (PvE; I do change for PvP) content. I guess if I wore my vMA setup my DPS would be lower, but not *that* much lower.
What confuses me is that there's zero in-between to what I see. I *have* noticed that I see far fewer CP-level players who are below CP 810, and most of the sub-50 players I encounter are on alts. Maybe it's just that fewer people are actually starting to play the game at this point and that most have been around for a while. Players who weren't super worried about DPS at CP 200 have made it to CP 810 and still don't really care. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, btw. This is about the extreme DPS swings I see with little in-between.0
