Maintenance for the week of January 6:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – January 6
• NA megaservers for maintenance – January 8, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EST (13:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for maintenance – January 8, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 13:00 UTC (8:00AM EST)
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – January 6
• NA megaservers for maintenance – January 8, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EST (13:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for maintenance – January 8, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 13:00 UTC (8:00AM EST)
Bad Dps in Dungeons
-
geonsocal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PuG groups could have an MMR system similar to BGs:
- The experienced players get grouped.
- the non experienced players get grouped.
The experienced players get through quickly. The non experienced players take their time and have to learn the dungeon.
Obviously there are downsides to this but it may make the group matching better for those involved.
i like this idea, a lot...
been doing the undaunted event a bit by accident...it just so happens i've been farming gear the last couple of weeks...first VoM and then selene's web...
VoM is pretty easy, but - selene's web's final boss can be a bit challenging...
thank goodness there are good sites like alcast and xynode gaming to help players along with dungeon mechanics...
some dungeons you can go in blind, some dungeons you really need to do some research on prior...
took 8 runs to get what i needed from selene's, it's funny got totally spoiled with groups of cp810 players (even if they don't know mechanics - they generally have enough cp to stay alive and do damage) the first 3 or 4 runs, easy peasy dungeon runs...the last 4 or 5 though were filled with a bunch of players below cp 300...i'm only cp630 on the server i was farming in...
those last 4 or 5 runs got pretty interesting at the final boss...a couple of them the group totally fizzled and bailed out...PVP Campaigns Section: Playstation NA and EU (Gray Host) - This Must be the Place2 -
Thechuckage✭✭✭✭✭Thechuckage wrote: »When the vast majority of overworld gets turned into a tutorial zone, with anything dangerous cordoned off and clearly marked, its it really any wonder that people are unprepared for dungeons?
This is what normal dungeons are for. Except then you get heroes queuing as fake tanks and fake healers on their DDs so they can run through the dungeons as fast as possible, claiming they're doing it to "help" the other people in there by getting it done fast like that's literally all anyone wants if they go into a normal dungeon. Then those bad dps players who end up getting carried don't learn anything except to assume they're better than they actually are because most of them don't even realise they've been carried.
And to be fair, even competent dps can contribute to this problem, tbh, but at least they're in there honestly, and sometimes you just don't want to do a vet dungeon.
A better way for me to put it, most games have a sloping progression. ESO has skill plateaus that have a pretty heft elevation change between each. I would think some in-game means to display how to reach that next level would be remiss. Taking the anilogy all the way, have some trail markers and a switchback road to help guide you to the next difficulty.
Such as a HM scroll for regs. Give the player a chance to see what vet might be like.
*edit, clarifications*Edited by Thechuckage on December 7, 2020 4:07AM4 -
renne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Thechuckage wrote: »Thechuckage wrote: »When the vast majority of overworld gets turned into a tutorial zone, with anything dangerous cordoned off and clearly marked, its it really any wonder that people are unprepared for dungeons?
This is what normal dungeons are for. Except then you get heroes queuing as fake tanks and fake healers on their DDs so they can run through the dungeons as fast as possible, claiming they're doing it to "help" the other people in there by getting it done fast like that's literally all anyone wants if they go into a normal dungeon. Then those bad dps players who end up getting carried don't learn anything except to assume they're better than they actually are because most of them don't even realise they've been carried.
And to be fair, even competent dps can contribute to this problem, tbh, but at least they're in there honestly, and sometimes you just don't want to do a vet dungeon.
A better way for me to put it, most games have a sloping progression. ESO has skill plateaus that have a pretty heft elevation change between each. I would think some in-game means to display how to reach that next level would be remiss. Taking the anilogy all the way, have some trail markers and a switchback road to help guide you to the next difficulty.
Such as a HM scroll for regs. Give the player a chance to see what vet might be like.
*edit, clarifications*
Yeah, you definitely have a point, there is a large difference between the two - a "medium" difficulty would not go amiss at all. Perhaps this is the vet base game dungeons, especially the no numbers and 1's, but given they're not presented that way and lumped in with all the rest of the vets...2 -
LordSarevok✭✭✭✭I main quite a few tanks and healers. I can tell on the first trash pack what the dps looks like. If it's terrible and takes forever, I just leave group and take my penalty. It's faster to eat a penalty and start over, than slogging through the dungeon with 10k total dps. I do not buy the excuse of them not knowing. It's literally everywhere online in text and in depth videos on how to be decent dps. I'm not asking for 70+.7 -
Ryath_Waylander✭✭✭✭✭
✭eovogtb16_ESO wrote: »Ive seen this mentioned a few times. what they really need to do is some sort of statistics screen at the end of the dungeons that shows how much damage % you actually did or something. It would really open a lot of peoples eyes to how hard they are getting carried in vet content and hopefully make them want to improve as players.
I think this is a brilliant idea. Just visible to the player themselves and for healing too. Something simpler than combat metrics and like the Battlegrounds summary. Those who can't see past their ego would ignore it but those who want to do better will start to google.4 -
doomette✭✭✭✭✭
✭LordSarevok wrote: »I main quite a few tanks and healers. I can tell on the first trash pack what the dps looks like. If it's terrible and takes forever, I just leave group and take my penalty. It's faster to eat a penalty and start over, than slogging through the dungeon with 10k total dps. I do not buy the excuse of them not knowing. It's literally everywhere online in text and in depth videos on how to be decent dps. I'm not asking for 70+.
Smart of you to wait for at least the first trash pull. The other day I was in a group with 2 friends, all of us on lowbie alts. The tank ported in and nearly immediately left. Sure hope they didn’t do it to save time because their penalty was definitely longer than it took us to trio the dungeon (nSpinclutch
). We had to chuckle at that. 4 -
JoeCapricorn✭✭✭✭✭
✭eovogtb16_ESO wrote: »I know combat metrics is a thing. It should be part of the base game. My dps was terrible until I downloaded cmx and saw how bad I was then I improved and now parse consistently 90k
I've been improving my DPS as well. Currently I have Maelstrom Bow (Perfected) and Maelstrom Greatsword, and the two 5-piece sets Hunding's Rage and Vicious Ophidian.
So I was in a few pug groups and sometimes I come across a few that were really good. I got the gist of what the group was trying to do and went along with it, and got a no-death speedrun on a blind run of vet Tempest Island. Pretty awesome.
But then Moon Hunter Keep came along. That was a doozy. Three members gave up at some points, me and a replacement DPS stuck around, got a new tank and healer and the rest was hard, but we didn't give up. The replacement tank gave excellent advice about the symbols portion of that one boss and that doing too much DPS makes the boss harder.I simp for vampire lords and Glemyos Wildhorn3 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Who leaves an normal dungeon because of low level players? Who is most likely to be alts anyway.LordSarevok wrote: »I main quite a few tanks and healers. I can tell on the first trash pack what the dps looks like. If it's terrible and takes forever, I just leave group and take my penalty. It's faster to eat a penalty and start over, than slogging through the dungeon with 10k total dps. I do not buy the excuse of them not knowing. It's literally everywhere online in text and in depth videos on how to be decent dps. I'm not asking for 70+.
Smart of you to wait for at least the first trash pull. The other day I was in a group with 2 friends, all of us on lowbie alts. The tank ported in and nearly immediately left. Sure hope they didn’t do it to save time because their penalty was definitely longer than it took us to trio the dungeon (nSpinclutch ). We had to chuckle at that.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.3 -
doomette✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Who leaves an normal dungeon because of low level players? Who is most likely to be alts anyway.LordSarevok wrote: »I main quite a few tanks and healers. I can tell on the first trash pack what the dps looks like. If it's terrible and takes forever, I just leave group and take my penalty. It's faster to eat a penalty and start over, than slogging through the dungeon with 10k total dps. I do not buy the excuse of them not knowing. It's literally everywhere online in text and in depth videos on how to be decent dps. I'm not asking for 70+.
Smart of you to wait for at least the first trash pull. The other day I was in a group with 2 friends, all of us on lowbie alts. The tank ported in and nearly immediately left. Sure hope they didn’t do it to save time because their penalty was definitely longer than it took us to trio the dungeon (nSpinclutch ). We had to chuckle at that.
That’s what I said lol. Maybe something came up and they had to leave. I just hope it wasn’t because they thought we’d be too slow 2 -
jm42✭✭✭✭how about that ppl demanding that everyone can go wherever they want in game and who are you to decide are they ready or not? that's why I never do such explanations anymore, I gladfully provide info about mechanics for the first-timers, but about improving dps and other? no, sir1 -
Aaxc✭✭✭You need minimal dps to do specific content. One of my latest "fails" was tanking Spindle 2 where we couldn't get past Blood Spawn gargoyle boss because the groups dps was so low, the whole room broke apart and killed us in 5min or so.
A lot of dungeon (even normal) have enrage mechanisms, that people don't know about, because you usually kill it way before. But they exists. And if you got cp160+ dps who jump around roleplaying and shooting arrow spray every 10 seconds, you just can't do group content that way.
That's why it is totally ok and necessary to check damage dealer dps and warn them to practice, before entering group content. There is nothing "elitist" about that.Edited by Aaxc on December 7, 2020 11:10AM5 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Blood Spawn is one of the few hard dps checks, you need to kill boss inside an set time or you wipe.You need minimal dps to do specific content. One of my latest "fails" was tanking Spindle 2 where we couldn't get past Blood Spawn gargoyle boss because the groups dps was so low, the whole room broke apart and killed us in 5min or so.
A lot of dungeon (even normal) have enrage mechanisms, that people don't know about, because you usually kill it way before. But they exists. And if you got cp160+ dps who jump around roleplaying and shooting arrow spray every 10 seconds, you just can't do group content that way.
That's why it is totally ok and necessary to check damage dealer dps and warn them to practice, before entering group content. There is nothing "elitist" about that.
An second and more common is add spam, last boss in Blackheart is perfect here. You get more and more skeleton adds who need to be handled with low dps. Having tank pull them helps. Banish cell has 2 keeper Indril and the daedrots on last boss but this is mostly an lack of AoE. Darkshade 2 last boss is also one of these.
Most common however in dangerous mecanic who is common in vet DLC dungeons but you even find it on second last boss in nCoH2, do not overlap circles even if your current position will kill you as you just ending up killing you and another.
With low dps you have to handle mechanics many more times increasing the chance of wipe.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.2 -
RodneyRegis✭✭✭✭✭It really would help if there were some kind of explanation of dots and direct damage, and ground AOEs, as a bear minimum.
The number of people spamming LA and the odd direct damage attack is mind-numbing.3 -
RodneyRegis✭✭✭✭✭A lot of people suggest a bare minimum of DPS/HP etc for dungeons. How about for a pug you port into a hallway where there's an add - with 100hp. You have to kill it in 10s or it one shots you. more HP for harder dungeons, less for easy.
Tank has to survive a one-shot for 40k damage (unblocked). Healer has to stop an npc getting killed by an ad for a few seconds.
Once you're done you go through the door and start the dungeon.
Or just do that once as a prerequisite to queuing for each level of dungeon on each character for a certain role. Would take 30 seconds and at least show that that character/player is able to deal with the role they are queuing for. Vet players would just do the hardest level and be able to queue for any dungeon, whilst leveling players would need to do each level as they got stronger.2 -
Stratti✭✭✭✭✭The central issue here is that people feel entitled to join DLC Vet content in four man when they are nowhere near the required level. In life there are hierarchies, irrespective of the endeavour. You do not walk onto a golf course and play with a pro that you do not know. They will not want you along. It is the same principle here. The problem is a sense of entitlement to players not at the required level.3 -
Nordic__Knights✭✭✭✭✭
✭The central issue here is that people feel entitled to join DLC Vet content in four man when they are nowhere near the required level. In life there are hierarchies, irrespective of the endeavour. You do not walk onto a golf course and play with a pro that you do not know. They will not want you along. It is the same principle here. The problem is a sense of entitlement to players not at the required level.
GF has its lvls for cp to do DLC once you pass that anytime you que for RANDOM VET you have chance of it being base game or dlc so how do you see they are queing for dlc to be carried i see it they qued and got wrong end of the stick and being an true VET player try to help them over come it by helpping them out not putting them down just over their cp lvl0 -
Nastassiya✭✭✭I have always appreciated when people tell me about boss mechanics. I enjoy tanking and I have around 50cp and I've recently been getting into dungeons where there are mechanics for some of the fights. "When the boss goes up into the air, jump through the portal, hit X before you hit the floor." This is valuable advice for me! When I pick a random dungeon, I need to know these fights and I can't ask people to pause so I can go watch a YouTube video. Please, just spend a few minutes and let me know what the mechanics are. It takes less time than repeating the fight after a wipe.
I'm a recent return so this is a new world for me. I played in 2014 and left because of the massive botting.Edited by Nastassiya on December 7, 2020 2:06PM6 -
SshadowSscale✭✭✭✭✭So the other day I found myself in vet fanglair with a pug.... after second or third add wave I noticed that I seem to be doing most if not all dps but decided to not say anything got past first boss and the revivifiers started showing up so so decided to drop in group chat as a friendly reminder that we should burn them fast.... other dd ignored advice.... got to dog fight and started.... wiped first try(will admit I made a mistake and got blown up by a dog lol oops)anyways so tank and healer both starts telling us dps that we really need to up our game otherwise we are gonna be at this fight forever.... I decide then to drop mechs in chat to make sure that everyone understood them.... other dps ignored mechs completely and after dying for the tenth time we left him dead and finished the fight..... tank immediately starts complaining about dps after...we continue until we get to first add pull and I decide to wait a second and watch the other dps..... la la la hardendward.... la la la hardendward.... la la la hardendward.... so I help kill the adds and decide to try and explain to other dd that he should use more of his skill instead of just la.... next add pull.... la la la hardendward..... la la la hardendward...... I once again stopped dps to try and explain to him that he needs to use more skill to layer dots etc etc.... tank loses it and goes off about how he is always stuck with bad dps and then leaves group.... healer also leaves right after him.... the other dd turns to me and tells me that it's my fault they left because I am toxic..... sorry OP but helping other people is not always an option.... they need to want the help otherwise you just end up wasting time.6
-
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Its not only an question about level, you need to know the mechanics, some who can be pretty non intuitive.The central issue here is that people feel entitled to join DLC Vet content in four man when they are nowhere near the required level. In life there are hierarchies, irrespective of the endeavour. You do not walk onto a golf course and play with a pro that you do not know. They will not want you along. It is the same principle here. The problem is a sense of entitlement to players not at the required level.
Low dps and you need to handle the mechanics for an longer time.
Main issue with low CP is that you are less resilient and take more damage, this is more an issue than lower dps.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.2 -
SidraWillowsky✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I'm noticing a weird and consistent dichotomy as of late. I'm a DD, and one of two things always happens in my pug groups. This is any dungeon and occurs in both norm and vet. I typically pull 40-50k on bosses on my main.
1. I pull 75-80% of group DPS, or
2. I pull what I assume is roughly the same as the other DPS
The other DD's DPS is either pretty low or really high. This seems to be evidence of the skill gap getting *wider*, not narrower. I don't know how that can happen when ZOS is apparently making concerted efforts to narrow the skill gap.4 -
Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SidraWillowsky wrote: »I'm noticing a weird and consistent dichotomy as of late. I'm a DD, and one of two things always happens in my pug groups. This is any dungeon and occurs in both norm and vet. I typically pull 40-50k on bosses on my main.
1. I pull 75-80% of group DPS, or
2. I pull what I assume is roughly the same as the other DPS
The other DD's DPS is either pretty low or really high. This seems to be evidence of the skill gap getting *wider*, not narrower. I don't know how that can happen when ZOS is apparently making concerted efforts to narrow the skill gap.
Thats easily explained tbh.
First of all the changes Zos proposes most of the time actually dont do anything to adress the skillgap. Take their proposed light attack rework for example. Reducing LA dmg by 80% wouldve made the light attack spammers do virtually no damage at all, tying sustain to weaving wouldve made it so that people that dont weave or dont weave very good would probably need to invest more into sustain and loose damage stats for it, while it gave the people that could weave very good enough sustain to bash weave so they dont loose dps AND it increased the APM required to do the highest damage.
And more importantly: The reason for the large gap isnt only lack of skill, while that plays a role, the really big differences come from a lack of knowledge. Your random cp 200 dd that runs around in heavy armor with a resto staff, 30k health, no set bonuses, no dots, maybe has a mag spammable on a stam build, probably veeeeeery bad cp and attribute spread etc. wont do any kind of relevant damage even if he weaved perfectly. The same player would do much better if he was given lets say hundings, nma and 2 pieces agility with correct attribute and cp spread even if his skill wouldnt change at all.Politeness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.2 -
Eiregirl✭✭✭Unfortunately the game itself does not have mechanisms that would teach players to handle such situations.
I would like to see tutorial quests that prepare the player.
That wouldn't fix anything tbh. There is already an insane amount of information available to players on sites and youtube. People who can't be bothered to spend 15 minutes looking into a build or skills are going to ignore the information if it's in the game as well.
Yes there is a lot of information online and also a lot of incorrect or outdated information. A simple tutorial that is built into the game would be helpful or training grounds where players can go to work on game mechanics without being a bother to anyone else. Not everyone would pay attention but a lot would.
Perhaps a training dummy that actually fights back and kills you if you don't follow the mechanics (yeah those are the actual monsters in the world but would be cool to have one in my house).1 -
Nordic__Knights✭✭✭✭✭
✭Thechuckage wrote: »When the vast majority of overworld gets turned into a tutorial zone, with anything dangerous cordoned off and clearly marked, its it really any wonder that people are unprepared for dungeons?
This is what normal dungeons are for. Except then you get heroes queuing as fake tanks and fake healers on their DDs so they can run through the dungeons as fast as possible, claiming they're doing it to "help" the other people in there by getting it done fast like that's literally all anyone wants if they go into a normal dungeon. Then those bad dps players who end up getting carried don't learn anything except to assume they're better than they actually are because most of them don't even realise they've been carried.
And to be fair, even competent dps can contribute to this problem, tbh, but at least they're in there honestly, and sometimes you just don't want to do a vet dungeon.
[Quoted post was removed]
where you play at ? pc , ps4 , xbox ?Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on December 7, 2020 6:39PM0 -
RageKing✭✭✭✭
I find it hard to believe your going to farm vet dlc content for gear when its 10x easier on normal and same gear. But to each their own. But id say the vast majority of players farm normal dungeons for gear. so to say that normal dungeons are only for new players is compeltely false.4 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
I find it hard to believe your going to farm vet dlc content for gear when its 10x easier on normal and same gear. But to each their own. But id say the vast majority of players farm normal dungeons for gear. so to say that normal dungeons are only for new players is compeltely false.
That's how I have hollowfang, and defiled dragonguard, dlc dungeons is where I live in the game.0 -
Nordic__Knights✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I find it hard to believe your going to farm vet dlc content for gear when its 10x easier on normal and same gear. But to each their own. But id say the vast majority of players farm normal dungeons for gear. so to say that normal dungeons are only for new players is compeltely false.
GF is for EVERY lvl play style , skill lvl , ect ect reason one should act respectful when using it as you dont know if its an player missing an hand or an 8 year old kid to an 90 year old female enjoying her day too4
