Last vVatershran fight is a DPS check and that is utter BS!

fred4

I got through everything, even the tedious Minotaur fight, pretty easily in the end. I'm on my PvP stam DK with about 4.3K weapon damage, 32K stam and, ah well, 34% crit (because: changes - that was definitely more before). There is absolutely no way - ZERO - that I'm going to kill a shade when that ring closes in with this build. This is a DPS check. I take maybe 30% of it's health before I'm closed in and die. It's not even close. I don't know wtf ZOS were thinking. By all means make it so that you have to be a DPS monster for top scores, but don't lock people like me out. I'm a PvPer. I do vMA on multiple characters, including this one, which has Flawless. No problem. I did every other fight in vVateshran no problem. This is suddenly telling me I have to completely change my build and playstyle to have any chance, just because of a single mechanic? I'm sorry, but that is utter BS. In case you have any tips, let me know - or confirm that what I'm saying is true.

Taleof2Cities

It’s a 10k DPS check, @fred4 ... 10k DPS.

If you can’t do 10k DPS in veteran content, it’s time to review your build.

Here is the main thread on vVH if you’re looking for tips: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/551201/veteran-vateshran-hollows-last-boss-difficulty#latest

Ringing_Nirnroot

I did it on my stamplar and just had to switch one skill, I added razor caltrops and helped me burn the adds quicker. If you don’t already try using that

fred4

The problem is that everything gets in the way and, no, there is NO way this is merely a 10K DPS check unless maybe you're talking 10K pure AOE DPS, which I may not have on this build.

Ringing_Nirnroot

fred4 wrote: »

The problem is that everything gets in the way and, no, there is NO way this is merely a 10K DPS check unless maybe you're talking 10K pure AOE DPS, which I may not have on this build.

I hit 80k on the trial dummy, the first time adds got in the way. Set down your AOES then start killing them, try killing the collosi first if you can. Sorry I suck at explaining ;-;

SidraWillowsky

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

It’s a 10k DPS check, @fred4 ... 10k DPS.

If you can’t do 10k DPS in veteran content, it’s time to review your build.

You know that it's not that simple. This kind of post is unhelpful.

Yes, you need 10k DPS in theory, but in reality you have about 10 seconds before the adds have corralled you into a tiny circle and you're stuck with a ton of adds on top of you. Even if you manage to get one down at this point, it's very difficult to exit the circle without accidentally touching the chain. This is compounded by the fact that it's almost impossible to focus single-target skills on one add because you constantly have other adds blocking you.

The shade spawn is apparently based on the boss's health, so what I would do now that I know this (I didn't when I first completed it) is to get close to the outside edge of the arena when her health is getting to that point. As soon as the shades spawn, pick the closest one and hit it with your ultimate and then apply as many dots as you can. You cannot rely on a spammable here, at least reliably, so the name of the game is early burst damage and then dots.

MirandaSharp

Just make sure you save up your ultimate to be ready when they show up and same thing with your offensive resources, make sure they're full. Then just pick one shade, drop your ultimate and and go ham with your highest damage spammable and you should be able to do it. My tank can do this...

fred4

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

The shade spawn is apparently based on the boss's health, so what I would do now that I know this (I didn't when I first completed it) is to get close to the outside edge of the arena when her health is getting to that point.

This tip was golden, thank you. I got through one wave of these now - still working on the rest.

This makes it similar to the vMA ice stage, I guess. You can fail for lack of DPS or you can fail when you have too much, because you progress too rapidly and set off too many enemies.

Stanx

fred4 wrote: »

The problem is that everything gets in the way and, no, there is NO way this is merely a 10K DPS check unless maybe you're talking 10K pure AOE DPS, which I may not have on this build.

Do you target the enemy? It gives them a white outline and makes targeting ST damage a lot easier IMO. I play xbox and you just need to hold down the right analog stick to do it. I think on PC it's tab. Will help with selecting and focusing down one of the guys to break the ring.

If you do already then sorry and ignore this

Jaimeh

I agree that it has a dps check element (not just the shade, but also if you're low on dmg you can get overwhelmed by adds, regardless of the circle mechanic), and I was surprised by this--the difficulty spikes a lot in the last boss, even compared to the third wing. For the shades: target one that's away from a chained skeleton, so you don't aggro a skeleton as well, put ground AOE on its path, caltrops/hail, use DOTs, and your spammable, and it should be OK--the issue is that when other adds are around, it can be difficult to target, as well as moving around the aoes that they throw at you. The skellies' cone is particularly annoying for example. If you use 2h you can try brawler as a spammable, because you can also target whatever is close to the shade as well, and you get a shield too. And finally, if push comes to shove, just use an ultimate: it's a bit of a sacrifice of an ulti, but better than wiping. Generally though, it's a hell of a tricky fight for stam. Good luck, you'll get there!

Moonsorrow

If it goes tight on DPS, like not having expensive ultimate ready and/or tight on resources with lots of adds surrounding you, when the Void tries to come for you.. you can use DK Leap to go over the Tether and be totally safe outside it and continue burning the boss. Just target a chained colossus as an example at the edge of the arena so you Leap over the tether to that enemy.

You can also use NB Shade like that, leave Shade on the edge, let the tether go over it, then port to Shade, all teh safespace in the world being outside tether and just killing boss.

fred4

x

Moonsorrow wrote: »

If it goes tight on DPS, like not having expensive ultimate ready and/or tight on resources with lots of adds surrounding you, when the Void tries to come for you.. you can use DK Leap to go over the Tether and be totally safe outside it and continue burning the boss. Just target a chained colossus as an example at the edge of the arena so you Leap over the tether to that enemy.

You can also use NB Shade like that, leave Shade on the edge, let the tether go over it, then port to Shade, all teh safespace in the world being outside tether and just killing boss.

I had not seen this fight until today. Now that you mention it, I read someone else talking about this. In fact my first instinct was to jump the tether and I was annoyed the visuals don't match the mechanics, because it seems you clear the tether when you jump, but of course you die anyway. Thanks for the tip.

MrBrownstone

fred4 wrote: »

on my PvP stam DK

Good news, I found the problem. Much like the PvE players who go into PvP with their PvE builds and then complain, don't expect to reliably clear veteran PvE content with a PvP build. There is no counter argument to that, dps checks are one of this game's PvE mechanics and if you refuse to build around that, you refuse to clear veteran content. PvE is done with PvE builds.

fred4

Stanx wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

The problem is that everything gets in the way and, no, there is NO way this is merely a 10K DPS check unless maybe you're talking 10K pure AOE DPS, which I may not have on this build.

Do you target the enemy? It gives them a white outline and makes targeting ST damage a lot easier IMO. I play xbox and you just need to hold down the right analog stick to do it. I think on PC it's tab. Will help with selecting and focusing down one of the guys to break the ring.

If you do already then sorry and ignore this

Thanks. I actually always do this. PvP habit.

fred4

MrBrownstone wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

on my PvP stam DK

Good news, I found the problem. Much like the PvE players who go into PvP with their PvE builds and then complain, don't expect to reliably clear veteran PvE content with a PvP build. There is no counter argument to that, dps checks are one of this game's PvE mechanics and if you refuse to build around that, you refuse to clear veteran content. PvE is done with PvE builds.

You are wrong. Solo content is is or at least has been more amenable to PvP builds than you think.

fred4

fred4 wrote: »

Moonsorrow wrote: »

If it goes tight on DPS, like not having expensive ultimate ready and/or tight on resources with lots of adds surrounding you, when the Void tries to come for you.. you can use DK Leap to go over the Tether and be totally safe outside it and continue burning the boss. Just target a chained colossus as an example at the edge of the arena so you Leap over the tether to that enemy.

You can also use NB Shade like that, leave Shade on the edge, let the tether go over it, then port to Shade, all teh safespace in the world being outside tether and just killing boss.

I had not seen this fight until today. Now that you mention it, I read someone else talking about this. In fact my first instinct was to jump the tether and I was annoyed the visuals don't match the mechanics, because it seems you clear the tether when you jump, but of course you die anyway. Thanks for the tip.

Leap didn't work I got killed the first time while leaping out. Could be targetting, I'm not sure. There is something else that works, though. You stand in the middle when the ring closes in. You defend. You pop Corrosive Armor. You survive. That may not be efficient, but it works.

Moonsorrow

fred4 wrote: »

x

Moonsorrow wrote: »

If it goes tight on DPS, like not having expensive ultimate ready and/or tight on resources with lots of adds surrounding you, when the Void tries to come for you.. you can use DK Leap to go over the Tether and be totally safe outside it and continue burning the boss. Just target a chained colossus as an example at the edge of the arena so you Leap over the tether to that enemy.

You can also use NB Shade like that, leave Shade on the edge, let the tether go over it, then port to Shade, all teh safespace in the world being outside tether and just killing boss.

I had not seen this fight until today. Now that you mention it, I read someone else talking about this. In fact my first instinct was to jump the tether and I was annoyed the visuals don't match the mechanics, because it seems you clear the tether when you jump, but of course you die anyway. Thanks for the tip.

There is a difference visually and in reality about the tether yes.

You cannot land your Leap in the Tether shade or like visually about 1-3 metres around it (gotta take that possible location desync in the calculations, or Void comes for ya..), but say a chained colossus that is clearly 5m+ meters away from it already.. Safe to leap to that kind of target to get outside the tether.

Can use even Undo, but for DK leaping above tether so easier, range also long so can pick your leap target wisely, preferring a target with no other targets between you and it right then.. because you know how Leap targeting can be at pvp also haha.

fred4

All: I regret the tone of my OP a little bit. I have not finished the fight - moving on to other things today - but it looks like there is more than one way to skin a cat. ZOS lives up to their reputation of play as you want after all, at least to a degree. Thanks to those who didn't get ruffled and provided helpful replies. I was afraid DPS was the only way to tackle this and I still think it solves a lot of problems, but it does seem like it's not the only way.

MellowMagic

I got spirit slayer with my imperial warden tank I speced into a mag dps specifically for the arena. An imperial magwarden....poop damage and meh sustain & yet my dps was more then enough to melt the dps check before they got even remotely close.

So idk what to tell you. Use more aoes and tab targeting.

Bald_templar

Just put on master 2h and watch everything melt with the 30k cleave. (Don’t worry about breaking a 5 piece set...the 2h is just too good when there are 3-4 ads)

fred4

MellowMagic wrote: »

I got spirit slayer with my imperial warden tank I speced into a mag dps specifically for the arena. An imperial magwarden....poop damage and meh sustain & yet my dps was more then enough to melt the dps check before they got even remotely close.

So idk what to tell you. Use more aoes and tab targeting.

Here's my problem: I perused Alcast's notes before I created this post. He essentially said the same as you. The strategy is to burn a shade before it gets too close. I am just glad I got a variety of viewpoints here, because that is clearly not the only way. It may be the best way for you and for the quickest completion, but it's becoming clear that it's not the only one. Thanks, though.

fred4

Bald_templar wrote: »

Just put on master 2h and watch everything melt with the 30k cleave. (Don’t worry about breaking a 5 piece set...the 2h is just too good when there are 3-4 ads)

Also a good idea. Thanks!

Batgirl

If youre doing arena as dk, you can survive the tether with magma shell on - a friend who mains tank did triple that way.

Also, it seems tether shade mechanics is on timer, 40 ish sec or so, while adds come on %boss hp, and on 10% boss resets the arena, including tether shades and starts portal mechanics and explodes Platform. So you can either attack boss slowly, Focus adds so you dont have 52546372 of them running around and blocking targeting shades with their fat asses when tether comes OR have huge dps and push boss to 10% before line of death reaches you.

Jeremy

fred4 wrote: »

I got through everything, even the tedious Minotaur fight, pretty easily in the end. I'm on my PvP stam DK with about 4.3K weapon damage, 32K stam and, ah well, 34% crit (because: changes - that was definitely more before). There is absolutely no way - ZERO - that I'm going to kill a shade when that ring closes in with this build. This is a DPS check. I take maybe 30% of it's health before I'm closed in and die. It's not even close. I don't know wtf ZOS were thinking. By all means make it so that you have to be a DPS monster for top scores, but don't lock people like me out. I'm a PvPer. I do vMA on multiple characters, including this one, which has Flawless. No problem. I did every other fight in vVateshran no problem. This is suddenly telling me I have to completely change my build and playstyle to have any chance, just because of a single mechanic? I'm sorry, but that is utter BS. In case you have any tips, let me know - or confirm that what I'm saying is true.

I completely agree with you.

I didn't mind the rest of the arena either . It doesn't require a specific build set up and I was able to complete all the other areas on my tank. It was challenging, but not over-the-top and demanding of an offensive play style. I liked it and would have probably repeated this content on a regular basis.

But then you get to that last fight and it turns into one huge DPS race - which is exactly what it is. I wouldn't even waste your time trying to beat this fight in a defensive build. You're just needlessly subjecting yourself to endless torture. Even if you do get enough DPS to take out the shades - which at a bare minimum requires about 12k dps on the precursor if you get full stat buffs, that's really only just the beginning. Because you still have to kill all the other adds quickly as well otherwise they will just overwhelm your defenses and destroy you.

This is one of those fights where the real challenge is tailoring your build to counter the gimmicks. I don't know why MMO developers are so enamored with DPS race mechanics. They're not particularly inventive or interesting, and really do nothing but hinder builds and turn off players who don't play offensive characters And then they wonder why tanks are so rare on this game.

tomofhyrule

Moonsorrow wrote: »

If it goes tight on DPS, like not having expensive ultimate ready and/or tight on resources with lots of adds surrounding you, when the Void tries to come for you.. you can use DK Leap to go over the Tether and be totally safe outside it and continue burning the boss. Just target a chained colossus as an example at the edge of the arena so you Leap over the tether to that enemy.

You can also use NB Shade like that, leave Shade on the edge, let the tether go over it, then port to Shade, all teh safespace in the world being outside tether and just killing boss.

Ooh, I was wondering if that was possible, especially since I've heard that the Sorc streak and the NB shade could. This might make all the difference if I wanted to have a go at it. Maybe. Eventually.

I've done nVH so often that I can do it in my sleep, but I've got a tanky build so I'm hesitant to try any solo vet content. I threw on a few +damage sets and the Warrior mundus which got me up to a parse of about 11k on a 3m skelly, but I've never played a legit DPS so I have no experience with rotations or anything.

Plus I'm one of those solo-RP players who came from Skyrim, so changing my build too much just feels like a betrayal of the character as a whole. If "Play as you want" means I can't do vet content, I'm okay with that. Better than trying to make my character into something he's not, especially if I have a character in planning that may be able to do the content.

Jeremy

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Moonsorrow wrote: »

If it goes tight on DPS, like not having expensive ultimate ready and/or tight on resources with lots of adds surrounding you, when the Void tries to come for you.. you can use DK Leap to go over the Tether and be totally safe outside it and continue burning the boss. Just target a chained colossus as an example at the edge of the arena so you Leap over the tether to that enemy.

You can also use NB Shade like that, leave Shade on the edge, let the tether go over it, then port to Shade, all teh safespace in the world being outside tether and just killing boss.

Ooh, I was wondering if that was possible, especially since I've heard that the Sorc streak and the NB shade could. This might make all the difference if I wanted to have a go at it. Maybe. Eventually.

I've done nVH so often that I can do it in my sleep, but I've got a tanky build so I'm hesitant to try any solo vet content. I threw on a few +damage sets and the Warrior mundus which got me up to a parse of about 11k on a 3m skelly, but I've never played a legit DPS so I have no experience with rotations or anything.

Plus I'm one of those solo-RP players who came from Skyrim, so changing my build too much just feels like a betrayal of the character as a whole. If "Play as you want" means I can't do vet content, I'm okay with that. Better than trying to make my character into something he's not, especially if I have a character in planning that may be able to do the content.

Yeah don't even attempt the last fight in Veteran Vatesharan on a tanky build. Spare yourself that fruitless agony. 11k DPS on a dummy is not enough. Even if you do manage to take out the shades in time you're just going to be swarmed with adds.

Jeremy

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

It’s a 10k DPS check, @fred4 ... 10k DPS.

If you can’t do 10k DPS in veteran content, it’s time to review your build.

Here is the main thread on vVH if you’re looking for tips: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/551201/veteran-vateshran-hollows-last-boss-difficulty#latest

Good luck doing this fight with 10k DPS. You're going to need it. haha

Sun7dance

If you have marked the endboss (not the Nb skill, but these kind of white edge around the boss), then it could happen that the add only gets your AoE damage. So it seems you would do very low dps.

Maybe that's the reason.

erio

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

It’s a 10k DPS check, @fred4 ... 10k DPS.

If you can’t do 10k DPS in veteran content, it’s time to review your build.

You know that it's not that simple. This kind of post is unhelpful.

Yes, you need 10k DPS in theory, but in reality you have about 10 seconds before the adds have corralled you into a tiny circle and you're stuck with a ton of adds on top of you. Even if you manage to get one down at this point, it's very difficult to exit the circle without accidentally touching the chain. This is compounded by the fact that it's almost impossible to focus single-target skills on one add because you constantly have other adds blocking you.

The shade spawn is apparently based on the boss's health, so what I would do now that I know this (I didn't when I first completed it) is to get close to the outside edge of the arena when her health is getting to that point. As soon as the shades spawn, pick the closest one and hit it with your ultimate and then apply as many dots as you can. You cannot rely on a spammable here, at least reliably, so the name of the game is early burst damage and then dots.

They sit like 3 meters apart and wait for like 5 seconds before they kill you. You just walk forward afterwards.

Jeremy

erio wrote: »

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

It’s a 10k DPS check, @fred4 ... 10k DPS.

If you can’t do 10k DPS in veteran content, it’s time to review your build.

You know that it's not that simple. This kind of post is unhelpful.

Yes, you need 10k DPS in theory, but in reality you have about 10 seconds before the adds have corralled you into a tiny circle and you're stuck with a ton of adds on top of you. Even if you manage to get one down at this point, it's very difficult to exit the circle without accidentally touching the chain. This is compounded by the fact that it's almost impossible to focus single-target skills on one add because you constantly have other adds blocking you.

The shade spawn is apparently based on the boss's health, so what I would do now that I know this (I didn't when I first completed it) is to get close to the outside edge of the arena when her health is getting to that point. As soon as the shades spawn, pick the closest one and hit it with your ultimate and then apply as many dots as you can. You cannot rely on a spammable here, at least reliably, so the name of the game is early burst damage and then dots.

They sit like 3 meters apart and wait for like 5 seconds before they kill you. You just walk forward afterwards.

When the adds draw closer to the middle it can be very problematic because you have less room to maneuver. Let's say if a goliath spawns and blocks you from being able to move... then you're dead basically. I believe that's what the poster is referring too. Not to mention the damage can become quite insane if it becomes concentrated, especially if a flame spinner is up.

So unless you want to rely on luck I believe it's necessary to be able to kill the shade comfortably before they reach the middle and pin you in. I wont' believe this fight is possible with 10k DPS until I see it with my own eyes.

Everest_Lionheart

Jeremy wrote: »

erio wrote: »

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

It’s a 10k DPS check, @fred4 ... 10k DPS.

If you can’t do 10k DPS in veteran content, it’s time to review your build.

You know that it's not that simple. This kind of post is unhelpful.

Yes, you need 10k DPS in theory, but in reality you have about 10 seconds before the adds have corralled you into a tiny circle and you're stuck with a ton of adds on top of you. Even if you manage to get one down at this point, it's very difficult to exit the circle without accidentally touching the chain. This is compounded by the fact that it's almost impossible to focus single-target skills on one add because you constantly have other adds blocking you.

The shade spawn is apparently based on the boss's health, so what I would do now that I know this (I didn't when I first completed it) is to get close to the outside edge of the arena when her health is getting to that point. As soon as the shades spawn, pick the closest one and hit it with your ultimate and then apply as many dots as you can. You cannot rely on a spammable here, at least reliably, so the name of the game is early burst damage and then dots.

They sit like 3 meters apart and wait for like 5 seconds before they kill you. You just walk forward afterwards.

When the adds draw closer to the middle it can be very problematic because you have less room to maneuver. Let's say if a goliath spawns and blocks you from being able to move... then you're dead basically. I believe that's what the poster is referring too. Not to mention the damage can become quite insane if it becomes concentrated, especially if a flame spinner is up.

So unless you want to rely on luck I believe it's necessary to be able to kill the shade comfortably before they reach the middle and pin you in. I wont' believe this fight is possible with 10k DPS until I see it with my own eyes.

You can always roll dodge through the enemy if it blocks the hole you open in the tether. This happens to me nearly every time. Generally a colossus will step in the hole. I already have shade tab targeted so when it goes down I roll through colossus. Keep that in mind for other content as well. Sometimes it helps to roll through an enemy instead of always to the side or away from them. It’s going to consume stamina yes, but if the alternative is death...