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Behavioral changes
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Dunning_Kruger✭✭✭✭Honestly if they deleted all smart healing. I’d be okay with cross healing. I have never seen a more busted support mechanic in any other successful mmo. Press button; seeks out ally who needs heal; heals them.____________________________________
A G G R O - the legendary stamplar GM of <HALL MONITORS>
For the Queen bby0 -
maxjapank✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Dunning_Kruger wrote: »Honestly if they deleted all smart healing. I’d be okay with cross healing. I have never seen a more busted support mechanic in any other successful mmo. Press button; seeks out ally who needs heal; heals them.
It's worked this way since the beginning and many players are satisfied with it. Do you play a healer?2 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Dunning_Kruger wrote: »Honestly if they deleted all smart healing. I’d be okay with cross healing. I have never seen a more busted support mechanic in any other successful mmo. Press button; seeks out ally who needs heal; heals them.
It's worked this way since the beginning and many players are satisfied with it. Do you play a healer?
People just hate healers and healing. They are fine with damage being fast paced and brain dead easy (no cooldown on skills, especially on things like gap closes and cloak, sets with trivial proc conditions that some do more damage than an ultimate, "3,2,1 proxy!" with the papa crown add-on all that's needed to lay waste to an entire area), but expect a healer to pick out one player in a group that just got hit with a prox det, vicious death, and destro bomb. OK, I'll get right on that while all the DDs stack 30K + health and still do a ton of burst damage in a single cooldown stacking crap like Winterborn and Caluurion. Sounds totally legit.
17 -
Dunning_Kruger✭✭✭✭Dunning_Kruger wrote: »Honestly if they deleted all smart healing. I’d be okay with cross healing. I have never seen a more busted support mechanic in any other successful mmo. Press button; seeks out ally who needs heal; heals them.
It's worked this way since the beginning and many players are satisfied with it. Do you play a healer?
Smart healing over performs when you realize how much return is giving for how little effort is required. Saying it worked this way from the beginning is a terrible argument against something that overperforms.
The other argument of damage dealing is brain dead easy is honestly not untrue ; but Atleast you have to select and stick on the right target. So now imagine how brain dead easy it would be if you didn’t even have to pick your targets and it just hit the right enemies for you. I also don’t hate healers; I just hate to see things that have massive returns for little inputs.____________________________________
A G G R O - the legendary stamplar GM of <HALL MONITORS>
For the Queen bby1 -
badmojo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Proc sets
DoTs
Traps
Ranged AOEs
Resto & Lightning heavy attacks
Fear
There's a lot of things on the damage side that are also pretty effortless. That said, I do dislike how easy smart heals are in ESO, I preferred playing my warden healer as it provided a more engaging experience. I did use rapid regen, but just to proc SPC.
But I do think it's silly to justify nerfs to healing in general by saying smart heals are OP. Smart heals are still OP even when healing is group only. It's like saying we should make set bonuses group only because proc sets are OP.[DC/NA]0 -
FENGRUSH✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »Dunning_Kruger wrote: »Honestly if they deleted all smart healing. I’d be okay with cross healing. I have never seen a more busted support mechanic in any other successful mmo. Press button; seeks out ally who needs heal; heals them.
It's worked this way since the beginning and many players are satisfied with it. Do you play a healer?
People just hate healers and healing. They are fine with damage being fast paced and brain dead easy (no cooldown on skills, especially on things like gap closes and cloak, sets with trivial proc conditions that some do more damage than an ultimate, "3,2,1 proxy!" with the papa crown add-on all that's needed to lay waste to an entire area), but expect a healer to pick out one player in a group that just got hit with a prox det, vicious death, and destro bomb. OK, I'll get right on that while all the DDs stack 30K + health and still do a ton of burst damage in a single cooldown stacking crap like Winterborn and Caluurion. Sounds totally legit.
I see you say people hate healers a lot. I dont hate healers, but you put me in that boat as well. The games healing design was made to be very console friendly. Comparing the DPS role of a ball group is a lot different than the DPS role of general open world/BG environment. Which is pretty active in decision making.
Healers have to make decisions in those environments too. Where to position, when to fire. They just dont have to aim or watch the fight pace. The good ones do, because they react accordingly. I dont think painting people who disagree with you as 'someone who hates healers' is a good way to argue your point.
I had to fight against templars en masse that'd say I just hate healers the way you are now when they had breathe of life hitting more targets, going through walls, and being 360 degree targeting. When you step back and realize that was a thing a couple years ago and to suggest it shouldnt be was 'just a DPS that hates healers' argument was used just as much then.
I wonder how much of the ESO population has actually touched another MMO sometimes to level set some of these takes.0 -
Earthewen✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »Dunning_Kruger wrote: »Honestly if they deleted all smart healing. I’d be okay with cross healing. I have never seen a more busted support mechanic in any other successful mmo. Press button; seeks out ally who needs heal; heals them.
It's worked this way since the beginning and many players are satisfied with it. Do you play a healer?
People just hate healers and healing. They are fine with damage being fast paced and brain dead easy (no cooldown on skills, especially on things like gap closes and cloak, sets with trivial proc conditions that some do more damage than an ultimate, "3,2,1 proxy!" with the papa crown add-on all that's needed to lay waste to an entire area), but expect a healer to pick out one player in a group that just got hit with a prox det, vicious death, and destro bomb. OK, I'll get right on that while all the DDs stack 30K + health and still do a ton of burst damage in a single cooldown stacking crap like Winterborn and Caluurion. Sounds totally legit.
I see you say people hate healers a lot. I dont hate healers, but you put me in that boat as well. The games healing design was made to be very console friendly. Comparing the DPS role of a ball group is a lot different than the DPS role of general open world/BG environment. Which is pretty active in decision making.
Healers have to make decisions in those environments too. Where to position, when to fire. They just dont have to aim or watch the fight pace. The good ones do, because they react accordingly. I dont think painting people who disagree with you as 'someone who hates healers' is a good way to argue your point.
I had to fight against templars en masse that'd say I just hate healers the way you are now when they had breathe of life hitting more targets, going through walls, and being 360 degree targeting. When you step back and realize that was a thing a couple years ago and to suggest it shouldnt be was 'just a DPS that hates healers' argument was used just as much then.
I wonder how much of the ESO population has actually touched another MMO sometimes to level set some of these takes.
I have played other MMOs and I have to say that the condition of PVP right now leaves something to be desired. IDK about the other campaigns, but the lag on Gray Host, even when there isn't the population to blame it on, is constant and awful. I'm about to give up on this game that I've invested hundreds into over the years, and it pains me to say it. I could totally support a rollback to a few years ago, but unfortunately, I think the game is so messed up that a rollback would only break it further.
I could be wrong, but I'm hearing from my friends who do trials that the troubles that have been pervasive in PVP is more than noticeable in trials. Maybe someone who has a firend on the inside of the DEV table can possible give me a reason to have hope for this game. I feel like I'm hanging on by the finger nails for something that just will never happen.7 -
maxjapank✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I had to fight against templars en masse that'd say I just hate healers the way you are now when they had breathe of life hitting more targets, going through walls, and being 360 degree targeting.
I wonder how much of the ESO population has actually touched another MMO sometimes to level set some of these takes.
While healing going through walls was never a good thing, Breath hitting 2 additional targets for less amount was not a problem. It was not a necessary nerf. Nor was the 360 degree targeting. And healing in general has been a pretty fun and rewarding experience for some in this game. I was never interested in being a healer in other mmos until I came to ESO. And I enjoy it immensely.
There are others ways to nerf things without touching the way a skill works. And I personally think that too many dps players complain about healing just because they couldn't get that satisfying kill. But you know what, that is exactly what is satisfying to healers - keeping you from getting that kill.7 -
maxjapank✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Dunning_Kruger wrote: »Dunning_Kruger wrote: »Honestly if they deleted all smart healing. I’d be okay with cross healing. I have never seen a more busted support mechanic in any other successful mmo. Press button; seeks out ally who needs heal; heals them.
It's worked this way since the beginning and many players are satisfied with it. Do you play a healer?
Smart healing over performs when you realize how much return is giving for how little effort is required. Saying it worked this way from the beginning is a terrible argument against something that overperforms.
The other argument of damage dealing is brain dead easy is honestly not untrue ; but Atleast you have to select and stick on the right target. So now imagine how brain dead easy it would be if you didn’t even have to pick your targets and it just hit the right enemies for you. I also don’t hate healers; I just hate to see things that have massive returns for little inputs.
You never answered the question if you play a healer or not. And that's a big question before you continue on repeatedly clamoring that "smart" healing is op. You also do not offer any solution as to how to make healing meaningful for those who play healers.
ESO has done a fantastic job with healing overall. There are directional heals, aoe heals, burst heals - all of which do not require you to click on a frame to deliver said heals. Perhaps they overdid it making Regeneration heal 3 people rather than 2. But the fact that we don't have to play "whack a mole" like in WoW is really wonderful.
But rather than going on and on about healing, you need to ask yourself first off - Are you interested in playing a healer? And if so, how would you change healing to make it work for you as a healer? Just don't complain without any suggestions. And especially don't complain about something you are unwilling to do yourself. It's really a "walk the walk" situation. Because if you change it too much from it's current system, you might find players like me who enjoy healing...decide to give it up.2 -
Agalloch✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »I still don't get the logic of the argument "I can't solo heal and go where I want to" against behavioral change. There is no such thing as "solo healing". If you're playing a healer, then you are most likely zerging, period. I mean, how else are you going to heal when no people are there to heal? People who claim they solo heal are like those "solo players" that claim they solo but actually surf in a large zerg. Why not just get in a group and be more productive? The group is only good if everyone's in sync, and if you're not agreeing with the leader then simply leave and form your own groups. Cyrodiil is full of uncoordinated players who will gladly join a group you form. Why is it so hard to understand lol?
Healers basically want to do the same thing most DPS have done since launch: do their own thing while zerg-surfing without being singularly blamed for all the lag caused in Cyrodiil.
The majority of players in a faction stack are "solo" DPS who seem to have no problem pointing accusatory fingers and pretending that when they spam skills and flood the server with calculations for proc sets, double dot poisons, status effects, etc., their behavior is not noticeably contributing to server overload. If you play in Cyrodiil on anything, you are most likely zerging, period.
Since you can;t seem to grasp why people might not want to just join a PuG group despite the many responses in this thread, why don't you experience for yourself. EVERY time you log into cyrodiil type LFG and see how it goes for say a year.
if you are a healer wanting to faction surf but still want to heal people just invite everyone who types LFG yourself and start to surf the faction - if people want heals they will come to you.
Same as before except clicking twice on names in chat (or downloading auto invite).
So..."start your own group" as a solution?
I already addressed the reasons why I no longer lead PUGs in an earlier comment. I have led LFG players before and it is not comparable to the gameplay Joy_Division describes that healers used to be able to do.
When my PVP guild isn't on, I want to heal when and where I want to (which included, but wasn't always zergsurfing) without being tied to a PUG crown, stuck with PUG teammates who don't bring siege or scatter in a fight, or forced to lead my own group (of PUGs who don't bring siege and scatter in a fight, natch.) Since ZOS apparently likes making these my only options, my PVP healer is only going to be running with my guild, because they actually bring siege and don't act like my heals are friendly fire.
This is part of the behavior target. Faction stacks are propped up by randoms able to cross heal *everyone*. Harder to faction stack with this change and survive simply by having healers scattered everywhere spamming smart heals.
From your point of view.
Somehow the random ungrouped healer has become the scapegoat for server calculations and lag when it is obvious to anyone who has played since Launch or read zone chat on a weekend night that it's the organized raids whose presence tanks performance, aside from the balance issues their potency has caused.
Yet somehow ZOS decides to make them relatively stronger because everyone one of their members can always heal/buff each other whereas that's not the case for the players they farm.
It's no surprise at all that some high profile players who run in organized raids are applauding these changes, even tough ZOS has admitted it did not have the impact on performance they were looking for. So spare me the justifications about performance; It's about wanting to play in an environment where the rules and mechanics are both convenient and favorable to them while being unfavorable to their opponents.
I remember years ago how you were a very prominent critic of AoE caps because you were frustrated that your abilities were artificially nerfed/reduced in effectiveness because of inconsistent rules/mechanics that favored the people you fought against.
My my, how things have changed over the years.
Aoe caps were bad, how is that different? That also contributed to stacking issues. Theres nothing wrong with group play. The way the maps designed with faction stacks is not good.
This change by itself isnt a solution for macro level issues. Can check out a video I did talking about these things for a while. I presume those who's minds are made up and just hate on pretty much anything I say wont watch. But that's your choice. I'm still for adding single target healing outside of groups. Not the smart healing ones though.
https://youtu.be/LPj2eox5me8
This one or two changes hasn't changed the issues with lag at all. And it has changed some people's behavior. Many are now just sitting in a keep until it is hit, and refuse to come out at all. I just think the health of PvP isn't not good right now, and every time someone just guesses and tries to make a change it gets worse. I'm not sure what the devs are thinking. On the one hand, it almost feels as if they WANT PvP to die. The populations are lower than ever which is why I'm uncertain. Either way, the result is the same. The pop is just lower than I've ever seen it in all my years in ESO. And that makes me sad.
This!
No more casual PVP in ESO...But we will have a larger battleground...:(( with a few groups...1 -
Agalloch✭✭✭✭✭Eso was advertised as a big, massive PVP AVA game. It launched like this ( we had hundreds of players on the same screen and thousands on the same map).It lasted years..even they reduced and broke many things ( started with lighting patch)
Now they make Cyrodiil a large battleground for a few groups ...this is a very unwelcome change.
The casual players will be discouraged and will decide to not play Cyrodiil again.
ESO launched as an AVA PVP game...but with these last changes open PVP will die in a few months.
And now speaking of PVE...remember latest patch notes of Morrowind Chapter ? When they changed and nerfed many things without testing and without players feedback?
This now happen with Open AVA PVP Cyrodiil. A real bad decision.
I bet in max 2 months Cyrodiil will be like a ghost town.
They killed Cyrodiil.
I hope next year they will revert the changes...
English is not my native language.
4 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Dunning_Kruger wrote: »Dunning_Kruger wrote: »Honestly if they deleted all smart healing. I’d be okay with cross healing. I have never seen a more busted support mechanic in any other successful mmo. Press button; seeks out ally who needs heal; heals them.
It's worked this way since the beginning and many players are satisfied with it. Do you play a healer?
Smart healing over performs when you realize how much return is giving for how little effort is required. Saying it worked this way from the beginning is a terrible argument against something that overperforms.
The other argument of damage dealing is brain dead easy is honestly not untrue ; but Atleast you have to select and stick on the right target. So now imagine how brain dead easy it would be if you didn’t even have to pick your targets and it just hit the right enemies for you. I also don’t hate healers; I just hate to see things that have massive returns for little inputs.
You never answered the question if you play a healer or not. And that's a big question before you continue on repeatedly clamoring that "smart" healing is op. You also do not offer any solution as to how to make healing meaningful for those who play healers.
ESO has done a fantastic job with healing overall. There are directional heals, aoe heals, burst heals - all of which do not require you to click on a frame to deliver said heals. Perhaps they overdid it making Regeneration heal 3 people rather than 2. But the fact that we don't have to play "whack a mole" like in WoW is really wonderful.
But rather than going on and on about healing, you need to ask yourself first off - Are you interested in playing a healer? And if so, how would you change healing to make it work for you as a healer? Just don't complain without any suggestions. And especially don't complain about something you are unwilling to do yourself. It's really a "walk the walk" situation. Because if you change it too much from it's current system, you might find players like me who enjoy healing...decide to give it up.
It's my experience that while non-healers see the player they failed to kill, healers see the players they failed to save.
It's just basic tunnel vision. What I do is hard, but the other guy makes what they do look easy, so it must be easy.
I catch myself doing this with siege battles frequently.
When I'm up top pouring oils, I'm frustrated because it feels like the enemies is healing and debugging with ease. I can't kill these guys! Its not fair!
When I'm the healer on the floor, with the oils pouring down on our heads and a nervous eye on my magicka bar and our dipping health bars, I'm the one throwing those heals worrying if it'll be enough. The incoming damage feels overwhelming, like I'm barely holding back the tide!
If I don't stop and think about it from the other perspective, even I end up with tunnel vision depending on what I'm doing/what role I'm playing.5 -
FENGRUSH✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »Dunning_Kruger wrote: »Honestly if they deleted all smart healing. I’d be okay with cross healing. I have never seen a more busted support mechanic in any other successful mmo. Press button; seeks out ally who needs heal; heals them.
It's worked this way since the beginning and many players are satisfied with it. Do you play a healer?
People just hate healers and healing. They are fine with damage being fast paced and brain dead easy (no cooldown on skills, especially on things like gap closes and cloak, sets with trivial proc conditions that some do more damage than an ultimate, "3,2,1 proxy!" with the papa crown add-on all that's needed to lay waste to an entire area), but expect a healer to pick out one player in a group that just got hit with a prox det, vicious death, and destro bomb. OK, I'll get right on that while all the DDs stack 30K + health and still do a ton of burst damage in a single cooldown stacking crap like Winterborn and Caluurion. Sounds totally legit.
I see you say people hate healers a lot. I dont hate healers, but you put me in that boat as well. The games healing design was made to be very console friendly. Comparing the DPS role of a ball group is a lot different than the DPS role of general open world/BG environment. Which is pretty active in decision making.
Healers have to make decisions in those environments too. Where to position, when to fire. They just dont have to aim or watch the fight pace. The good ones do, because they react accordingly. I dont think painting people who disagree with you as 'someone who hates healers' is a good way to argue your point.
I had to fight against templars en masse that'd say I just hate healers the way you are now when they had breathe of life hitting more targets, going through walls, and being 360 degree targeting. When you step back and realize that was a thing a couple years ago and to suggest it shouldnt be was 'just a DPS that hates healers' argument was used just as much then.
I wonder how much of the ESO population has actually touched another MMO sometimes to level set some of these takes.
I have played other MMOs and I have to say that the condition of PVP right now leaves something to be desired. IDK about the other campaigns, but the lag on Gray Host, even when there isn't the population to blame it on, is constant and awful. I'm about to give up on this game that I've invested hundreds into over the years, and it pains me to say it. I could totally support a rollback to a few years ago, but unfortunately, I think the game is so messed up that a rollback would only break it further.
I could be wrong, but I'm hearing from my friends who do trials that the troubles that have been pervasive in PVP is more than noticeable in trials. Maybe someone who has a firend on the inside of the DEV table can possible give me a reason to have hope for this game. I feel like I'm hanging on by the finger nails for something that just will never happen.
I hear you - cyro is in a rough spot. The healing changes didnt fix lag, I think they knew that too. I think tech changes have led cyro to where it is.
I've still got fatigue about cyro as well since the tests. It really is a bad situation, and it sounds like more tests are coming next year. I can't say I'm excited because there isnt as much left.
I do BGs a lot more atm and if I wasnt, I'd be in the same place as you probably. New world isnt that far away though and may have a cool experience to offer in between.1 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »Dunning_Kruger wrote: »Honestly if they deleted all smart healing. I’d be okay with cross healing. I have never seen a more busted support mechanic in any other successful mmo. Press button; seeks out ally who needs heal; heals them.
It's worked this way since the beginning and many players are satisfied with it. Do you play a healer?
People just hate healers and healing. They are fine with damage being fast paced and brain dead easy (no cooldown on skills, especially on things like gap closes and cloak, sets with trivial proc conditions that some do more damage than an ultimate, "3,2,1 proxy!" with the papa crown add-on all that's needed to lay waste to an entire area), but expect a healer to pick out one player in a group that just got hit with a prox det, vicious death, and destro bomb. OK, I'll get right on that while all the DDs stack 30K + health and still do a ton of burst damage in a single cooldown stacking crap like Winterborn and Caluurion. Sounds totally legit.
I see you say people hate healers a lot. I dont hate healers, but you put me in that boat as well. The games healing design was made to be very console friendly. Comparing the DPS role of a ball group is a lot different than the DPS role of general open world/BG environment. Which is pretty active in decision making.
Healers have to make decisions in those environments too. Where to position, when to fire. They just dont have to aim or watch the fight pace. The good ones do, because they react accordingly. I dont think painting people who disagree with you as 'someone who hates healers' is a good way to argue your point.
I had to fight against templars en masse that'd say I just hate healers the way you are now when they had breathe of life hitting more targets, going through walls, and being 360 degree targeting. When you step back and realize that was a thing a couple years ago and to suggest it shouldnt be was 'just a DPS that hates healers' argument was used just as much then.
I wonder how much of the ESO population has actually touched another MMO sometimes to level set some of these takes.
I'm not the only person who thinks you're a high ranking officer on board the SS Hate Healers. Here's an example of that active decision making gameplay of a DPS in BGs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clfi6k7LifY
Or should I link you the video of another prominent BG player who literally ate a sandwich while one button smashing the snipe skill?
You may not think that you hate healers, but you absolutely have different standards for what constitutes easy and oversimplified. When some DD can just stack health and wear procs sets like Venomous Smite that work to devastating effect regardless of the direction they are facing or LOS, it makes your complaints about Breath of Life healing ring hollow to me.
It's not just that the game's healing design was made to be easy or console friendly, it's that the entire game was meant to be easy. In every other fantasy game I've ever played, playing a "mage/wizard" was a complicated endeavor that came with pretty hefty restrictions because the ability to do things like teleport, insta shield, turn invisible, high AoE damage, etc, are absurdly powerful. Not here in ESO. As long as you have resources - and in the game's state since 2015, it's trivial to always do - you can do all of these things all the time.
And that's fine. Some of the best gams I have ever played have gone under the principle of easy to learn / difficult to master. But the only way it really works is that roles countering each other ought to accept what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
Yeah, you led the fight against Templars. Are you proud that their "burst" heal of breath of life is now 4.5K in no CP whereas Sorcs with their birds have 360 degree targeting 2 players for max effect or these 40K health Wardens can scale Polar Wind off health and hit an additional ally within 12 meters or any class can put on a set like Amalexia's Mercy that auto heals their group?
[snip]
[Edited for Flaming]Edited by Psiion on December 16, 2020 9:33PM10 -
FENGRUSH✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Dunning_Kruger wrote: »Honestly if they deleted all smart healing. I’d be okay with cross healing. I have never seen a more busted support mechanic in any other successful mmo. Press button; seeks out ally who needs heal; heals them.
It's worked this way since the beginning and many players are satisfied with it. Do you play a healer?
People just hate healers and healing. They are fine with damage being fast paced and brain dead easy (no cooldown on skills, especially on things like gap closes and cloak, sets with trivial proc conditions that some do more damage than an ultimate, "3,2,1 proxy!" with the papa crown add-on all that's needed to lay waste to an entire area), but expect a healer to pick out one player in a group that just got hit with a prox det, vicious death, and destro bomb. OK, I'll get right on that while all the DDs stack 30K + health and still do a ton of burst damage in a single cooldown stacking crap like Winterborn and Caluurion. Sounds totally legit.
I see you say people hate healers a lot. I dont hate healers, but you put me in that boat as well. The games healing design was made to be very console friendly. Comparing the DPS role of a ball group is a lot different than the DPS role of general open world/BG environment. Which is pretty active in decision making.
Healers have to make decisions in those environments too. Where to position, when to fire. They just dont have to aim or watch the fight pace. The good ones do, because they react accordingly. I dont think painting people who disagree with you as 'someone who hates healers' is a good way to argue your point.
I had to fight against templars en masse that'd say I just hate healers the way you are now when they had breathe of life hitting more targets, going through walls, and being 360 degree targeting. When you step back and realize that was a thing a couple years ago and to suggest it shouldnt be was 'just a DPS that hates healers' argument was used just as much then.
I wonder how much of the ESO population has actually touched another MMO sometimes to level set some of these takes.
I'm not the only person who thinks you're a high ranking officer on board the SS Hate Healers. Here's an example of that active decision making gameplay of a DPS in BGshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clfi6k7LifY
Or should I link you the video of another prominent BG player who literally ate a sandwich while one button smashing the snipe skill?
You may not think that you hate healers, but you absolutely have different standards for what constitutes easy and oversimplified. When some DD can just stack health and wear procs sets like Venomous Smite that work to devastating effect regardless of the direction they are facing or LOS, it makes your complaints about Breath of Life healing ring hollow to me.
It's not just that the game's healing design was made to be easy or console friendly, it's that the entire game was meant to be easy. In every other fantasy game I've ever played, playing a "mage/wizard" was a complicated endeavor that came with pretty hefty restrictions because the ability to do things like teleport, insta shield, turn invisible, high AoE damage, etc, are absurdly powerful. Not here in ESO. As long as you have resources - and in the game's state since 2015, it's trivial to always do - you can do all of these things all the time.
And that's fine. Some of the best gams I have ever played have gone under the principle of easy to learn / difficult to master. But the only way it really works is that roles countering each other ought to accept what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
Yeah, you led the fight against Templars. Are you proud that their "burst" heal of breath of life is now 4.5K in no CP whereas Sorcs with their birds have 360 degree targeting 2 players for max effect or these 40K health Wardens can scale Polar Wind off health and hit an additional ally within 12 meters or any class can put on a set like Amalexia's Mercy that auto heals their group?
[snip]
[Edited for Flaming]
Cant disagree with a lot of these things. I rail on the amount of SnB wardens walking around with crimson and engine guardian holding block spamming ice in BGs these days. Its absurd. I dont like the proc meta either. Pvp is littered with poor balance and broken unintended mechanics right now its hard to fight the higher level cyrodiil issues at large. Proc sets that are 100% with huge tooltip are not the way.
Gonna be a dark winter for all, joy. I dont know how many will be left standing after, and theres more tests planned in the new year it sounds like.Edited by Psiion on December 16, 2020 9:33PM0 -
Starshadw✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Typically healers, when playing "solo", aren't alone. We're, uh, zergsurfing. Or we're keep-hopping to whatever's under attack going "They'll need a healer there!" and figuring allies will come. I mean, there's not a lot of point to playing a healer if the only person being healed is yourself, right?
Why do that when you could group up with guaranteed allies?
Well, when my PVP guild is on, I do.
When they aren't, PUGs are a very mixed bag where the leader may not know what to do, my teammates often didn't bring enough siege, and they scatter from my heals like it's standing-in-stupid red the second we get in a serious fight.
As a "solo" healer going where I wanted, when I wanted, I was more effective making AP by assisting faction-mates and zergsurfing than I was in PUGs. And I didn't have to deal with the frustrations of PUGing.
And that's what "force grouping" takes away from healers. Unlike other specs, we can't zergsurf anymore as a healer - we'd be far more effective just running a generic tanky/damage proc set build, and that isn't how I like to play.
So to answer your question, any other build can run "solo" and still participate effectively in the large battles Cyrodiil is known for (via zergsurfing). Healers used to be able to. Now we have to group up if we want to be anywhere near as effective as we used to be.
EVERY. SINGLE. WORD. OF. THIS.
7 -
ThePedge✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Here is a repost of mine:
Are you kidding me? This change:
"ally-targeted abilities will only apply to those in your group"
Is FORCED grouping, especially for healers since you wouldn't be able to heal others if not grouped (I play as a support Templar). If I just wanted to play with up to 12 folks, the game wouldn't need to be an MMO (M as in Massively), and certainly wouldn't be ESO with this change. Even worse, this change doesn't even help significantly with lag in Cyro.
As the OP pointed out, ZOS's reason for the change is for a desired "behavioral change" when any changes should actually be driven by the desire for customer satisfaction -- and this change is just the opposite, imo.
And you think being ALONE and not cooperating with anyone is participating in an MMOs large scale combat?
What mental gymnastics do you have to do to think that playing alone is a better MMO experience that playing in a group of 12?
Typically healers, when playing "solo", aren't alone. We're, uh, zergsurfing. Or we're keep-hopping to whatever's under attack going "They'll need a healer there!" and figuring allies will come. I mean, there's not a lot of point to playing a healer if the only person being healed is yourself, right?
Why do that when you could group up with guaranteed allies?
Well, when my PVP guild is on, I do.
When they aren't, PUGs are a very mixed bag where the leader may not know what to do, my teammates often didn't bring enough siege, and they scatter from my heals like it's standing-in-stupid red the second we get in a serious fight.
As a "solo" healer going where I wanted, when I wanted, I was more effective making AP by assisting faction-mates and zergsurfing than I was in PUGs. And I didn't have to deal with the frustrations of PUGing.
And that's what "force grouping" takes away from healers. Unlike other specs, we can't zergsurf anymore as a healer - we'd be far more effective just running a generic tanky/damage proc set build, and that isn't how I like to play.
So to answer your question, any other build can run "solo" and still participate effectively in the large battles Cyrodiil is known for (via zergsurfing). Healers used to be able to. Now we have to group up if we want to be anywhere near as effective as we used to be.
That's true, but that is the role you are choosing to play.
You yourself as a healer can attack or be attacked by any enemy when you are solo. Which is the essence of the DD and Tank roles.
However a healers role is to heal allies. With no allies, you can't heal them.
Do you also complain when you can't solo dungeons as a healer? DDs can do that, Tanks too. Tanks might not clear it but they can perform their role alone.
The only difference is now you need to actually have allies to heal, rather than wondering around free-lance. You can still perform your role exactly the same.
A "solo" healer by definition makes no sense, if you're alone who are you healing?1 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Here is a repost of mine:
Are you kidding me? This change:
"ally-targeted abilities will only apply to those in your group"
Is FORCED grouping, especially for healers since you wouldn't be able to heal others if not grouped (I play as a support Templar). If I just wanted to play with up to 12 folks, the game wouldn't need to be an MMO (M as in Massively), and certainly wouldn't be ESO with this change. Even worse, this change doesn't even help significantly with lag in Cyro.
As the OP pointed out, ZOS's reason for the change is for a desired "behavioral change" when any changes should actually be driven by the desire for customer satisfaction -- and this change is just the opposite, imo.
And you think being ALONE and not cooperating with anyone is participating in an MMOs large scale combat?
What mental gymnastics do you have to do to think that playing alone is a better MMO experience that playing in a group of 12?
Typically healers, when playing "solo", aren't alone. We're, uh, zergsurfing. Or we're keep-hopping to whatever's under attack going "They'll need a healer there!" and figuring allies will come. I mean, there's not a lot of point to playing a healer if the only person being healed is yourself, right?
Why do that when you could group up with guaranteed allies?
Well, when my PVP guild is on, I do.
When they aren't, PUGs are a very mixed bag where the leader may not know what to do, my teammates often didn't bring enough siege, and they scatter from my heals like it's standing-in-stupid red the second we get in a serious fight.
As a "solo" healer going where I wanted, when I wanted, I was more effective making AP by assisting faction-mates and zergsurfing than I was in PUGs. And I didn't have to deal with the frustrations of PUGing.
And that's what "force grouping" takes away from healers. Unlike other specs, we can't zergsurf anymore as a healer - we'd be far more effective just running a generic tanky/damage proc set build, and that isn't how I like to play.
So to answer your question, any other build can run "solo" and still participate effectively in the large battles Cyrodiil is known for (via zergsurfing). Healers used to be able to. Now we have to group up if we want to be anywhere near as effective as we used to be.
That's true, but that is the role you are choosing to play.
You yourself as a healer can attack or be attacked by any enemy when you are solo. Which is the essence of the DD and Tank roles.
However a healers role is to heal allies. With no allies, you can't heal them.
Do you also complain when you can't solo dungeons as a healer? DDs can do that, Tanks too. Tanks might not clear it but they can perform their role alone.
The only difference is now you need to actually have allies to heal, rather than wondering around free-lance. You can still perform your role exactly the same.
A "solo" healer by definition makes no sense, if you're alone who are you healing?
I've been watching these discussions for a while and kept back from saying anything since I haven't touched pvp in ages, but "with no allies" yet you're surrounded by allies, that's the part that doesn't make sense. They are right there, you have purge and they are burning to siege, but too bad, not in the right group and they died, unless fellow faction members aren't allies anymore. If your group wipes pushing into a keep and you survive you have nothing to do to help your faction until they get back as well, list can go on. Freelance healing was one of the things I did duck into pvp to do, glad there are people speaking up against the change but those for it still confuse me.7 -
ThePedge✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Here is a repost of mine:
Are you kidding me? This change:
"ally-targeted abilities will only apply to those in your group"
Is FORCED grouping, especially for healers since you wouldn't be able to heal others if not grouped (I play as a support Templar). If I just wanted to play with up to 12 folks, the game wouldn't need to be an MMO (M as in Massively), and certainly wouldn't be ESO with this change. Even worse, this change doesn't even help significantly with lag in Cyro.
As the OP pointed out, ZOS's reason for the change is for a desired "behavioral change" when any changes should actually be driven by the desire for customer satisfaction -- and this change is just the opposite, imo.
And you think being ALONE and not cooperating with anyone is participating in an MMOs large scale combat?
What mental gymnastics do you have to do to think that playing alone is a better MMO experience that playing in a group of 12?
Typically healers, when playing "solo", aren't alone. We're, uh, zergsurfing. Or we're keep-hopping to whatever's under attack going "They'll need a healer there!" and figuring allies will come. I mean, there's not a lot of point to playing a healer if the only person being healed is yourself, right?
Why do that when you could group up with guaranteed allies?
Well, when my PVP guild is on, I do.
When they aren't, PUGs are a very mixed bag where the leader may not know what to do, my teammates often didn't bring enough siege, and they scatter from my heals like it's standing-in-stupid red the second we get in a serious fight.
As a "solo" healer going where I wanted, when I wanted, I was more effective making AP by assisting faction-mates and zergsurfing than I was in PUGs. And I didn't have to deal with the frustrations of PUGing.
And that's what "force grouping" takes away from healers. Unlike other specs, we can't zergsurf anymore as a healer - we'd be far more effective just running a generic tanky/damage proc set build, and that isn't how I like to play.
So to answer your question, any other build can run "solo" and still participate effectively in the large battles Cyrodiil is known for (via zergsurfing). Healers used to be able to. Now we have to group up if we want to be anywhere near as effective as we used to be.
That's true, but that is the role you are choosing to play.
You yourself as a healer can attack or be attacked by any enemy when you are solo. Which is the essence of the DD and Tank roles.
However a healers role is to heal allies. With no allies, you can't heal them.
Do you also complain when you can't solo dungeons as a healer? DDs can do that, Tanks too. Tanks might not clear it but they can perform their role alone.
The only difference is now you need to actually have allies to heal, rather than wondering around free-lance. You can still perform your role exactly the same.
A "solo" healer by definition makes no sense, if you're alone who are you healing?
I've been watching these discussions for a while and kept back from saying anything since I haven't touched pvp in ages, but "with no allies" yet you're surrounded by allies, that's the part that doesn't make sense. They are right there, you have purge and they are burning to siege, but too bad, not in the right group and they died, unless fellow faction members aren't allies anymore. If your group wipes pushing into a keep and you survive you have nothing to do to help your faction until they get back as well, list can go on. Freelance healing was one of the things I did duck into pvp to do, glad there are people speaking up against the change but those for it still confuse me.
It goes both ways. A solo DD gets no healing, so needs to group up with a healer.
I don't see any DDs complaining about needing to be in a group. Without healers they are much less effective at their job as they'll likely die.
Also, if I was a "solo" DD and casted something like Rapid Regen there was a chance it healed some other near-by player. Giving me no healing.
This was an issue resolved by the changes, I want my own healing, don't really care for others as I'm either wanting to play alone (doesn't always end up that way) or in a group with friends anyway and we want to heal eachother.
Don't get me wrong sometimes it was good having spontaneous fights with another player on your alliance you are not grouped with.
However PvP isn't dead, Cyro isn't dying. This change doesn't kill healers, if anything it makes them more valuable, they just need to be decent players now.0 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Here is a repost of mine:
Are you kidding me? This change:
"ally-targeted abilities will only apply to those in your group"
Is FORCED grouping, especially for healers since you wouldn't be able to heal others if not grouped (I play as a support Templar). If I just wanted to play with up to 12 folks, the game wouldn't need to be an MMO (M as in Massively), and certainly wouldn't be ESO with this change. Even worse, this change doesn't even help significantly with lag in Cyro.
As the OP pointed out, ZOS's reason for the change is for a desired "behavioral change" when any changes should actually be driven by the desire for customer satisfaction -- and this change is just the opposite, imo.
And you think being ALONE and not cooperating with anyone is participating in an MMOs large scale combat?
What mental gymnastics do you have to do to think that playing alone is a better MMO experience that playing in a group of 12?
Typically healers, when playing "solo", aren't alone. We're, uh, zergsurfing. Or we're keep-hopping to whatever's under attack going "They'll need a healer there!" and figuring allies will come. I mean, there's not a lot of point to playing a healer if the only person being healed is yourself, right?
Why do that when you could group up with guaranteed allies?
Well, when my PVP guild is on, I do.
When they aren't, PUGs are a very mixed bag where the leader may not know what to do, my teammates often didn't bring enough siege, and they scatter from my heals like it's standing-in-stupid red the second we get in a serious fight.
As a "solo" healer going where I wanted, when I wanted, I was more effective making AP by assisting faction-mates and zergsurfing than I was in PUGs. And I didn't have to deal with the frustrations of PUGing.
And that's what "force grouping" takes away from healers. Unlike other specs, we can't zergsurf anymore as a healer - we'd be far more effective just running a generic tanky/damage proc set build, and that isn't how I like to play.
So to answer your question, any other build can run "solo" and still participate effectively in the large battles Cyrodiil is known for (via zergsurfing). Healers used to be able to. Now we have to group up if we want to be anywhere near as effective as we used to be.
That's true, but that is the role you are choosing to play.
You yourself as a healer can attack or be attacked by any enemy when you are solo. Which is the essence of the DD and Tank roles.
However a healers role is to heal allies. With no allies, you can't heal them.
Do you also complain when you can't solo dungeons as a healer? DDs can do that, Tanks too. Tanks might not clear it but they can perform their role alone.
The only difference is now you need to actually have allies to heal, rather than wondering around free-lance. You can still perform your role exactly the same.
A "solo" healer by definition makes no sense, if you're alone who are you healing?
I've been watching these discussions for a while and kept back from saying anything since I haven't touched pvp in ages, but "with no allies" yet you're surrounded by allies, that's the part that doesn't make sense. They are right there, you have purge and they are burning to siege, but too bad, not in the right group and they died, unless fellow faction members aren't allies anymore. If your group wipes pushing into a keep and you survive you have nothing to do to help your faction until they get back as well, list can go on. Freelance healing was one of the things I did duck into pvp to do, glad there are people speaking up against the change but those for it still confuse me.
It goes both ways. A solo DD gets no healing, so needs to group up with a healer.
I don't see any DDs complaining about needing to be in a group. Without healers they are much less effective at their job as they'll likely die.
Also, if I was a "solo" DD and casted something like Rapid Regen there was a chance it healed some other near-by player. Giving me no healing.
This was an issue resolved by the changes, I want my own healing, don't really care for others as I'm either wanting to play alone (doesn't always end up that way) or in a group with friends anyway and we want to heal eachother.
Don't get me wrong sometimes it was good having spontaneous fights with another player on your alliance you are not grouped with.
However PvP isn't dead, Cyro isn't dying. This change doesn't kill healers, if anything it makes them more valuable, they just need to be decent players now.
Some of the best moments I've had in any open world pvp game has been from those random groups where you and someone you don't know manage to do something memorable without forming a formal group. This change not only permanently prevents that, but it is easy to list situations that this change makes completely, for lack of a better word, stupid.
If a new player enters Cyrodiil as a healer and thinks the game is bugging out on them, or not as a healer and just thinks no one wants to help them as they watch grouped healers actually assist their team while running over their dead body (which to be honest why bother rezing someone outside your group if you can't keep them alive after?)
Or if you're on a healer spec and see someone out of your group being ganked. Can't heal them, may have some cc and what not but once that person is dead you're next and the ganker gets to skulk away. Or the situation I hinted at if your group wipes at a big fight and you can't even help your faction in the meantime. The only behavioral changes that will come of this are poor save for a few neutral ones and it makes the game far more tedious to play for many who would rather just not anymore.4 -
Araneae6537✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭From the comments in other threads, healers should stop being lazy and join a group and learn to be an “actual healer.”
Right then, so how do I find a ball group to join?
1 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Here is a repost of mine:
Are you kidding me? This change:
"ally-targeted abilities will only apply to those in your group"
Is FORCED grouping, especially for healers since you wouldn't be able to heal others if not grouped (I play as a support Templar). If I just wanted to play with up to 12 folks, the game wouldn't need to be an MMO (M as in Massively), and certainly wouldn't be ESO with this change. Even worse, this change doesn't even help significantly with lag in Cyro.
As the OP pointed out, ZOS's reason for the change is for a desired "behavioral change" when any changes should actually be driven by the desire for customer satisfaction -- and this change is just the opposite, imo.
And you think being ALONE and not cooperating with anyone is participating in an MMOs large scale combat?
What mental gymnastics do you have to do to think that playing alone is a better MMO experience that playing in a group of 12?
Typically healers, when playing "solo", aren't alone. We're, uh, zergsurfing. Or we're keep-hopping to whatever's under attack going "They'll need a healer there!" and figuring allies will come. I mean, there's not a lot of point to playing a healer if the only person being healed is yourself, right?
Why do that when you could group up with guaranteed allies?
Well, when my PVP guild is on, I do.
When they aren't, PUGs are a very mixed bag where the leader may not know what to do, my teammates often didn't bring enough siege, and they scatter from my heals like it's standing-in-stupid red the second we get in a serious fight.
As a "solo" healer going where I wanted, when I wanted, I was more effective making AP by assisting faction-mates and zergsurfing than I was in PUGs. And I didn't have to deal with the frustrations of PUGing.
And that's what "force grouping" takes away from healers. Unlike other specs, we can't zergsurf anymore as a healer - we'd be far more effective just running a generic tanky/damage proc set build, and that isn't how I like to play.
So to answer your question, any other build can run "solo" and still participate effectively in the large battles Cyrodiil is known for (via zergsurfing). Healers used to be able to. Now we have to group up if we want to be anywhere near as effective as we used to be.
That's true, but that is the role you are choosing to play.
You yourself as a healer can attack or be attacked by any enemy when you are solo. Which is the essence of the DD and Tank roles.
However a healers role is to heal allies. With no allies, you can't heal them.
Do you also complain when you can't solo dungeons as a healer? DDs can do that, Tanks too. Tanks might not clear it but they can perform their role alone.
The only difference is now you need to actually have allies to heal, rather than wondering around free-lance. You can still perform your role exactly the same.
A "solo" healer by definition makes no sense, if you're alone who are you healing?
That last bit makes me feel like you didn't really read what I said, since my comment addressed that very point, back in *checks thread date, since there's been a bunch of similar thread topics* November.
"You can still perform your role exactly the same."
Badmojo said it best:Same as before? Are you seriously comparing healing 11 randoms who type LFG to healing an entire faction?
I cannot perform my role exactly the same. I used to be able to heal all the members of my faction that I could target with heals or who were within my heal radius. All of them were my allies.
Now, I can only heal the 11 other players in my group. The rest of my factionmates are not my team, they just happen to be wearing the same color and fighting the same enemies.
It absolutely destroys informal grouping, such as when I used to see zone chat call for defenders at a certain keep and go there to defend and heal without specifically grouping up with anyone else answering the call because I judged it to be the most important objective I wanted to be at (which you dismiss as wandering around free-lance). Heaven forbid that a healer decide such things for themselves, not the crown they were forced to group up with.
But we were already discussing this on a different, more recent thread and I feel like I'm repeating myself.Edited by VaranisArano on December 16, 2020 2:20PM9 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Araneae6537 wrote: »From the comments in other threads, healers should stop being lazy and join a group and learn to be an “actual healer.”
Right then, so how do I find a ball group to join?
Right?
But when I play with my PVP guild, all I hear is "Heals and Purge still make ball groups too powerful!"
Just can't win.5 -
badmojo✭✭✭✭✭
✭they just need to be decent players now.
[snip] How can anyone hope to have any discussion with you about this topic when your opinion is that ungrouped healers are undecent players.
And please dont assume I am defending my play, I am far from a good player, but there are so many great players who used to heal not grouped up and you just generalized their entire playstyle as a reason they are bad at the game or taking some kind of lazy route to... what? AP? Heals? Yeah okay. But no.
Please explain why an ungrouped healer is automatically not a decent player.
[Edited for Rude Comments]Edited by Psiion on December 16, 2020 9:38PM[DC/NA]7 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Here is a repost of mine:
Are you kidding me? This change:
"ally-targeted abilities will only apply to those in your group"
Is FORCED grouping, especially for healers since you wouldn't be able to heal others if not grouped (I play as a support Templar). If I just wanted to play with up to 12 folks, the game wouldn't need to be an MMO (M as in Massively), and certainly wouldn't be ESO with this change. Even worse, this change doesn't even help significantly with lag in Cyro.
As the OP pointed out, ZOS's reason for the change is for a desired "behavioral change" when any changes should actually be driven by the desire for customer satisfaction -- and this change is just the opposite, imo.
And you think being ALONE and not cooperating with anyone is participating in an MMOs large scale combat?
What mental gymnastics do you have to do to think that playing alone is a better MMO experience that playing in a group of 12?
Typically healers, when playing "solo", aren't alone. We're, uh, zergsurfing. Or we're keep-hopping to whatever's under attack going "They'll need a healer there!" and figuring allies will come. I mean, there's not a lot of point to playing a healer if the only person being healed is yourself, right?
Why do that when you could group up with guaranteed allies?
Well, when my PVP guild is on, I do.
When they aren't, PUGs are a very mixed bag where the leader may not know what to do, my teammates often didn't bring enough siege, and they scatter from my heals like it's standing-in-stupid red the second we get in a serious fight.
As a "solo" healer going where I wanted, when I wanted, I was more effective making AP by assisting faction-mates and zergsurfing than I was in PUGs. And I didn't have to deal with the frustrations of PUGing.
And that's what "force grouping" takes away from healers. Unlike other specs, we can't zergsurf anymore as a healer - we'd be far more effective just running a generic tanky/damage proc set build, and that isn't how I like to play.
So to answer your question, any other build can run "solo" and still participate effectively in the large battles Cyrodiil is known for (via zergsurfing). Healers used to be able to. Now we have to group up if we want to be anywhere near as effective as we used to be.
That's true, but that is the role you are choosing to play.
You yourself as a healer can attack or be attacked by any enemy when you are solo. Which is the essence of the DD and Tank roles.
However a healers role is to heal allies. With no allies, you can't heal them.
Do you also complain when you can't solo dungeons as a healer? DDs can do that, Tanks too. Tanks might not clear it but they can perform their role alone.
The only difference is now you need to actually have allies to heal, rather than wondering around free-lance. You can still perform your role exactly the same.
A "solo" healer by definition makes no sense, if you're alone who are you healing?
I've been watching these discussions for a while and kept back from saying anything since I haven't touched pvp in ages, but "with no allies" yet you're surrounded by allies, that's the part that doesn't make sense. They are right there, you have purge and they are burning to siege, but too bad, not in the right group and they died, unless fellow faction members aren't allies anymore. If your group wipes pushing into a keep and you survive you have nothing to do to help your faction until they get back as well, list can go on. Freelance healing was one of the things I did duck into pvp to do, glad there are people speaking up against the change but those for it still confuse me.
It goes both ways. A solo DD gets no healing, so needs to group up with a healer.
I don't see any DDs complaining about needing to be in a group. Without healers they are much less effective at their job as they'll likely die.
Also, if I was a "solo" DD and casted something like Rapid Regen there was a chance it healed some other near-by player. Giving me no healing.
This was an issue resolved by the changes, I want my own healing, don't really care for others as I'm either wanting to play alone (doesn't always end up that way) or in a group with friends anyway and we want to heal eachother.
Don't get me wrong sometimes it was good having spontaneous fights with another player on your alliance you are not grouped with.
However PvP isn't dead, Cyro isn't dying. This change doesn't kill healers, if anything it makes them more valuable, they just need to be decent players now.
It doesn;t go both ways.
DD = every damage skill and damage component works just fine against every other member of opposing alliances no matter what the circumstances of the situation.
Healer = many skills won;t work at all on the same alliance players who are supposed to be "allies" (even though some do, thanks for the consistency ZOS).
Of course a DD isn;t going to complain about needing to be in a group. They aren't forced to be tied to the hips of someone just to have their skills function.
If you don't really care for others - gee what a wonderful addition to my alliance, can I please convince you to log onto one of the other factions so I can get someone who actually cares about winning? - then go to Stormhaven and duel or go to BGs with your friends now that's that allowed instead of forcing that don;t care for allies attitude on those of us who actually care about the AvAvA system and recognize that successfully defending a castle means giving a crap about those player who are brave and stand at the flags rather than spamming light attacks from the roof.
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Psiion✭✭✭✭Greetings,
After removing and editing a few posts, we would like to remind everyone that the Forum's are intended to be a place for civil and constructive discussion, and that Flaming is against the Forum's Community Rules as stated below:Flaming: It’s okay to disagree and debate on the official ESO forums, but we do ask that you keep all disagreements civil, constructive, and on-topic. If a discussion gets heated and turns into a debate, remember that you should stick to debating the post and/or thread topic. It is never appropriate to resort to personal comments or jabs about those participating in the thread discussion.1 -
techyeshic✭✭✭✭✭What's amusing to me is; I can see an ally running toward me about to die and not do anything about it, but the Vicious Death proc from them dying will hit me and my group.9