NONSENSE: ally-targeted abilities will only apply to those in your group - THEN ESO NO LONGER AN MMO

Cireous

So did this change occur on consoles today? I don't see it listed in the patch notes.

If it did happen today, can someone confirm for me that this is a Cyrodiil "only" change and that it did not affect PVE content?

Bergzorn

NotTaylorSwift wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

[
You have been told this numerous times by numerous people and yet you still claim to want to know why. Stop thinking of yourself and how you think the game should be played.

Let's just go with I don;t want to, among the other reasons that have already been given to you in this thread. I've subbed for 6 years, spent over $1100 on this game, doing my own thing, which I remind you is exactly what ZOS has been saying since even before launch: play as you want.

I don;t want to because I just feel like doing my own thing, going where I want to, not have to follow somebody else's instructions all the time, and not feel the pressure / stress that comes with grouping. It's not that hard of a concept. Sometimes on a lazy Sunday afternoon, I just want play and not be told what to do.

The DPS applauding this change would not for a second accept that their skills would not work unless they were tied to the hip of others every freaking time they wanted to play. I'm in a PvP guild and have friends on every faction, but sometimes I just want to do my own thing. It's not about not be able to find a group. It's that sometimes I don;t want to. Regardless of the stereotypical role people play, they should not feel pressured or coerced or forced to join these soon to be useless 12-man pugs that wont be able to do anything but PvDoor an undefended keep because "if you don;t play how we think you should play, we won't make your skills work at all." That's crap and anyone who is halfway objective will see that.

You’re answering a question I didn’t even ask, assuming I’m asking the same thing over and over which I’m clearly not. All of the excuses people are giving to say that healing in group rather than solo is against their play style are pretty poor. You say u wanna do your own thing? You are STILL following other people as healer whether you are grouped or not. Soloing as a healer is nowhere near the same as soloing as a dd. You literally HAVE to follow the Zerg as a healer anyway...

Yeah I get you may wanna go somewhere that the crown is not going but at the end of the day most pug groups are following action on the map, which is what you are doing as a solo healer. What’s the difference between healing a Zerg at Chal or healing a Zerg at BRK?? You just don’t wanna follow a crown? Saying “bla bla bla I wanna do my own thing” is such a poor answer. You literally can’t do your own thing as a healer because you HAVE to go where the alliance is. Which is exactly what pug groups do... And like I said, if you end up in a group you don’t like then join another one. If you like no groups that you join then the problem more than likely lies with you...

No offense meant, but that's such a ridiculous answer to the points given, indicating that you probably don't understand the difference in "quality of life" between grouped and ungrouped zerg surfing.
Talking just for me, it's a lot about being able to play at my own pace. Zerg surf a few minutes, then slack at an empty outpost for a while, ride around rather aimless in anticipation of some open-world encounters that might or might no happen - this just incompatible with a need for grouping.
This is my spare time and I don't need ZOS (within reasonable limits) or any other player to force a playstyle on me. If I were a healer and they introduced these changes, I'd quit the game in a heartbeat.

Sephyr

Cireous wrote: »

So did this change occur on consoles today? I don't see it listed in the patch notes.

If it did happen today, can someone confirm for me that this is a Cyrodiil "only" change and that it did not affect PVE content?

PvE only a few things might affect you;

• Users wearing the Ring of the Pale Order.
• Vampires who are using Blood for Blood (a little better now with the ring), Blood Frenzy, or Mist Form

Other than that, everything should still be the same in PvE.

Wolfpaw

nukk3r wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

nukk3r wrote: »

This change is great because it calls for actual interaction between players, some planning and overall more skilled gameplay.

How exactly does forced grouping with random players make for "more skilled gameplay"?

Did I say anything about grouping with randoms? People should join/make organized groups. PUGs are inefficient, a lot of players don't even bring siege weapons or skills that benefit the group, they just mindlessly follow the crown and provide easy AP for anyone willing to gain them.

So called "solo healers" have an opportunity to fill a niche now, as you can no longer spam Radiating Regen and leech AP. PUGs will rely on skilled healers more than ever, provided a group leader isn't a complete moron.

If you're a solo player it doesn't affect you in any way.

PvP players care about AP? I sure as hell don't, outdated currency barely worth spending outside of siege.

nuttytom wrote: »

idk wrote: »

nuttytom wrote: »

For everyone complaining - why don’t you just try playing solo for once instead of zerging

Changes like this provide a greater advantage for those grouped over those that run solo. Get ready for more groups forming in Cyrodiil.

Smaller groups is a good thing - now you won’t have 2 24 man groups surfing eachother and cross healing whilst creating a *** load of lag. People actually have to play a bit smarter instead of just following a zerg and mindlessly spamming heals 😑

I got a better idea to relieve server stress calculations & get rid of heals scaling from spell/weapon damage, and health stat.

Separate crit chance for healing from damage crit.

Reduce drastically self healing for pvp tanks & damage dealers to the point that outside of overland it's not worth running.

Ryath_Waylander

I just find the saddest aspect of this for me, is that it ruins any kind of spontaneity. When I get into Cyro, I always type "LFG", there are not always groups recruiting though. When that happens ,I pack in my rams, Ballistae and oils, check out the map and zone chat and run to a hot spot. I enjoy keeping the ram teams alive, healing at the breeches or protecting the seige engines, if I see that the first two are sufficiently supported. I don't spam regen from the outer edges to "leech" AP, I don't give two hoots about AP. Eventually, after taking a few objectives with the same group, I might get an invite. Now what am I supposed to do? Sit at the home base kicking my heels, waiting for an invite? Go and watch my alliance die? Or running on a scouting mission and find a couple of allies taking a resource. Watch them die because they can't invite the healer, who just arrived, to help them because they are fighting for their lives. It's easy to say "join a group, join a guild" but why should I be forced to play according to someone else's script now? I am a healer because I enjoy healing. How is it fair that a whole class of players have just been punished because they are healers and not DPS, because in practical terms, whether that was the intent or not, it is the result. If ZoS had introduced a sweeping change like this on the DPS players it would also have been massively unfair. I guess dedicated healers are not the Devs' darlings Time to gear up for dungeon pugs and walk away from Cyro for a few months.

Dame_Scorpio

Ryath_Waylander wrote: »

I just find the saddest aspect of this for me, is that it ruins any kind of spontaneity. When I get into Cyro, I always type "LFG", there are not always groups recruiting though. When that happens ,I pack in my rams, Ballistae and oils, check out the map and zone chat and run to a hot spot. I enjoy keeping the ram teams alive, healing at the breeches or protecting the seige engines, if I see that the first two are sufficiently supported. I don't spam regen from the outer edges to "leech" AP, I don't give two hoots about AP. Eventually, after taking a few objectives with the same group, I might get an invite. Now what am I supposed to do? Sit at the home base kicking my heels, waiting for an invite? Go and watch my alliance die? Or running on a scouting mission and find a couple of allies taking a resource. Watch them die because they can't invite the healer, who just arrived, to help them because they are fighting for their lives. It's easy to say "join a group, join a guild" but why should I be forced to play according to someone else's script now? I am a healer because I enjoy healing. How is it fair that a whole class of players have just been punished because they are healers and not DPS, because in practical terms, whether that was the intent or not, it is the result. If ZoS had introduced a sweeping change like this on the DPS players it would also have been massively unfair. I guess dedicated healers are not the Devs' darlings Time to gear up for dungeon pugs and walk away from Cyro for a few months.

It is unfair. Ungrouped DPS can kill anyone, but ungrouped healers can only heal their group members. Everything @Joy_Division wrote is spot on, and I can't understand ZOS's thinking on this one, apart from trying to fundamentally change AvAvA to GROUPvGROUPvGROUP and making the new Ring of the Pale Order a must have for solo DPS. I think it'll take time to see where the dust settles and I hope that this decision gets reversed. Unfortunately, it seeems they aren't going to revist this until at least 2021, so I'm anticipating a long wait for any kind of clairty.

Ryath_Waylander

Oh right, Ring of the Pale Order. Yeah. I'm already seeing a spike in unhealable pug dungeon deaths. Another brilliant anti-heal idea...

Ranger209

I think what they really need to do is revamp healing/buffing in ESO. They should go to a hard target system for healing/buffing so that you tab target, or select specific target in some other way, and this is the target that the heal/buff goes to. Get rid of smart targeting because quite frankly there is no way to make it as smart as it really has to be. Way too many times the heal goes somewhere it shouldn't or was not intended. The only way to make sure your intended target gets healed is spam, spam, spam.

Then take heal/buff spells and define some as single target abilities and others as group target abilities. So when you target someone with a single target heal/buff that person gets it. If you target someone with a group target heal/buff then that person and his/her groupmates that are in range get it. Again get rid of the smart target system. Let the player have the smarts.

It makes healing way more skill oriented rather than dumb luck yay that is who I wanted to heal and they got the heal. It also allows a person to heal a single target inside of or outside of their group, as well as to heal a group of targets inside of or outside of their group, but it is specific to the target that they cast it on.

I'm not sure how many MMO's out there incorporate smart target healing/buffing, but ESO is the only one I have ever played to do so. Every other MMO that I have played handles healing/buffing similar to how I am describing it. Yes it is unique, but maybe there is a reason for that which isn't necessarily a positive one.

alterfenixeb17_ESO

Ryath_Waylander wrote: »

Oh right, Ring of the Pale Order. Yeah. I'm already seeing a spike in unhealable pug dungeon deaths. Another brilliant anti-heal idea...

In dungeons and trials this ring is obviously pointless and stupid thing to do that may do more harm than good. In Cyrodiil however this indeed will be decent support for solo players.There are in fact like 1 or 2 other pieces that can also be support here. We shall see but if someone actually nails such build using those pieces it may as well kill the idea of healing change in Cyro. Considering group size change and that 99% of people are not naturally born leaders (and they are aware of it) it may indeed end up with situation that solo vets run still solo as they did while new players just give up before they start.

Also sorry about this idea someone here had about grouping tool. There was a time that getting into any 24 people group for some reasons was tough (as in could take several minutes some times) and Cyro had actually not bugged grouping tool. Just happened that nobody even bothered to use it. As for any more complex tool than it used to be do not count on it - this just will not happen as at this point at least nothing indicates there would be group of people wanting to work with it large enough to introduce it. Also grouping tool was already reworked a year ago. Another major update here is just unlikely.

merevie

Idea - solo players can have a solo only server with a much smaller map.
No groups allowed.
Then if they have burnt every bridge with every faction in zone chat they can still have a gaming experience that suits their playstyle.
And the rest of us, when bored, can go and randomly solo...
Maybe another no cp?

NotTaylorSwift

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Reduce drastically self healing for pvp tanks & damage dealers to the point that outside of overland it's not worth running.

So completely destroy any true solo play by removing solo players ability to heal themselves? You do realise actual solo players run their own survivability right? People running ungrouped in Zerg with full glass cannon dps builds are not solo players.

Dame_Scorpio wrote: »

making the new Ring of the Pale Order a must have for solo DPS.

No the new Mythic ring wont be a must have for solo players. If you mean people who run full dps builds and just zerg surf for heals then I guess so but most people run self heals anyway. Self healing is one of the most important parts of solo play so for actual solo players it won’t be a must have at least. Zerg surfing ungrouped is not solo play imo.

Luede

there are two ways, u have a group setup with ur char so u play in a group, or u play solo, can survive solo, are able to win solo and even if allys are around you don't rely on their abilities.

running around, leeching APs by spamming heal to player u didnt know and die instantly if there is no zerg between u and the enemy is not a way.

Xuhora

Luede wrote: »

there are two ways, u have a group setup with ur char so u play in a group, or u play solo, can survive solo, are able to win solo and even if allys are around you don't rely on their abilities.

running around, leeching APs by spamming heal to player u didnt know and die instantly if there is no zerg between u and the enemy is not a way.

this answer is kinda ignorant in my opinion. it follows the argument "real soloplay is playing solo alltogether". yes yes we can debate that with Gankers, Streakers, Snipers what ever. but this argument is not valid when we discuss the HEALER role, since this role is based on you supporting and healing other players! With this new implementation we, as the healers and supporters, are essentially forced to group up, because solo we are useless!

and even, EVEN we would be okay with that change and start puging more, there comes another point: Pugs are often Split up on the map or scattered while defending a keep. this makes our role as healer and supporters way more complicated than it needs to be, because good luck trying to figure out where your teammate is that needs heal, while other players from your alliance are dying left and right because you simply cannot heal them.

and now stop with that flimsy argument "real soloplayers play solo and dont zergsurf" please, this is not the point of this thread!

Sephyr

Xuhora wrote: »

Luede wrote: »

there are two ways, u have a group setup with ur char so u play in a group, or u play solo, can survive solo, are able to win solo and even if allys are around you don't rely on their abilities.

running around, leeching APs by spamming heal to player u didnt know and die instantly if there is no zerg between u and the enemy is not a way.

this answer is kinda ignorant in my opinion. it follows the argument "real soloplay is playing solo alltogether". yes yes we can debate that with Gankers, Streakers, Snipers what ever. but this argument is not valid when we discuss the HEALER role, since this role is based on you supporting and healing other players! With this new implementation we, as the healers and supporters, are essentially forced to group up, because solo we are useless!

and even, EVEN we would be okay with that change and start puging more, there comes another point: Pugs are often Split up on the map or scattered while defending a keep. this makes our role as healer and supporters way more complicated than it needs to be, because good luck trying to figure out where your teammate is that needs heal, while other players from your alliance are dying left and right because you simply cannot heal them.

and now stop with that flimsy argument "real soloplayers play solo and dont zergsurf" please, this is not the point of this thread!

What many don't realize is that solo-healing is a viable mode of gameplay in Cyrodiil. I've seen people who were DPS, DIE, then come back with a healer build not even two minutes later and were some real MVPs. I could tell they weren't grouped because they weren't localizing their healing to one spot, but the weakest ones who had obvious difficulties struggling with trying to keep the enemy at bay, and in a lot of cases rezzing them. Sometimes they were spamming Rapid Maneuver just to get from place to place to make sure people on siege was fine and if not, they rezzed. They were also setting siege out for others when they were out. After the keep was clear, they stayed behind and actually helped clear the keep, which the majority of groups don't do nor seem like they really care. They were doing more for the alliance on DC than the several people who whine and cry that there aren't any 'organized' groups and then whine and cry when you tell them to start one. A lot of these solo healers don't want to deal with those types. They don't want to deal with the clashing of egos either. They just want to support their alliance and now they're not going to be able to do that unless they group.

And for the record, and for the people complaining about 'zergsurfing'? They're not actually SPECCED for healing just because they're spamming Restoration abilities. I rarely see them throwing down synergies, throwing out purges, using the siege shields appropriately, or helping sniff out ganks when they take a keep. People who think real solo healers are zergsurfers have no idea what real healers are in Cyrodiil unless they're in a group. That much is obvious to me. It's also obvious that people care too much about AP more than helping people on the map. They'd be better off in BGs with that mentality than they would in Cyrodiil.

badmojo

Do you call a player with self heals and good survivability a solo player even when they are in a group?

Solo means ungrouped, it doesnt dictate the playstyle or build.

manny254

badmojo wrote: »

Do you call a player with self heals and good survivability a solo player even when they are in a group?

Solo means ungrouped, it doesnt dictate the playstyle or build.

I love to imagine the internal monologues of those who think being un grouped means playing solo.

"Oh yes!!! Me and these 10 other player on my faction. We just soloed the heck out of that enemy player. Good to see enemy players fighting me in solo combat. I better find some way to assert the dominance of my solo play. I wonder if I should do what they call t bagging. I mean, I did do 1% of the damage on this person. I really think I earned this"

"Man did anyone see how I just soloed that keep? They had so many defender and I was just here solo. The faction had 20/20 siege and it was really all me soloing the keep. At one point I died standing on my solo ram and had to respawn at my solo camp. Someone else placed it, but they did it to keep my solo dreams alive. Solo players have to look out for each other when we stack with our faction."

"While I was playing solo with my faction, I ran into this disgusting group of zerglings. They had like 4 people and I was solo. So me and 16 others solo players went after them. I can't believe how trash these zerglings are. They all claim to be good players, but I just soloed them. They just didn't expect to run into a player as good as me. They even let me sit on the keep wall and siege them."

Faded

manny254 wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

Do you call a player with self heals and good survivability a solo player even when they are in a group?

Solo means ungrouped, it doesnt dictate the playstyle or build.

I love to imagine the internal monologues of those who think being un grouped means playing solo.

"Oh yes!!! Me and these 10 other player on my faction. We just soloed the heck out of that enemy player. Good to see enemy players fighting me in solo combat. I better find some way to assert the dominance of my solo play. I wonder if I should do what they call t bagging. I mean, I did do 1% of the damage on this person. I really think I earned this"

"Man did anyone see how I just soloed that keep? They had so many defender and I was just here solo. The faction had 20/20 siege and it was really all me soloing the keep. At one point I died standing on my solo ram and had to respawn at my solo camp. Someone else placed it, but they did it to keep my solo dreams alive. Solo players have to look out for each other when we stack with our faction."

"While I was playing solo with my faction, I ran into this disgusting group of zerglings. They had like 4 people and I was solo. So me and 16 others solo players went after them. I can't believe how trash these zerglings are. They all claim to be good players, but I just soloed them. They just didn't expect to run into a player as good as me. They even let me sit on the keep wall and siege them."

They may not monologue while they play. I believe that's reserved for players who exclusively assert their dominance in 1vX scenarios at least 200 meters from any keep or structure. It's in the handbook, I don't make the rules.

badmojo

manny254 wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

Do you call a player with self heals and good survivability a solo player even when they are in a group?

Solo means ungrouped, it doesnt dictate the playstyle or build.

I love to imagine the internal monologues of those who think being un grouped means playing solo.

"Oh yes!!! Me and these 10 other player on my faction. We just soloed the heck out of that enemy player. Good to see enemy players fighting me in solo combat. I better find some way to assert the dominance of my solo play. I wonder if I should do what they call t bagging. I mean, I did do 1% of the damage on this person. I really think I earned this"

"Man did anyone see how I just soloed that keep? They had so many defender and I was just here solo. The faction had 20/20 siege and it was really all me soloing the keep. At one point I died standing on my solo ram and had to respawn at my solo camp. Someone else placed it, but they did it to keep my solo dreams alive. Solo players have to look out for each other when we stack with our faction."

"While I was playing solo with my faction, I ran into this disgusting group of zerglings. They had like 4 people and I was solo. So me and 16 others solo players went after them. I can't believe how trash these zerglings are. They all claim to be good players, but I just soloed them. They just didn't expect to run into a player as good as me. They even let me sit on the keep wall and siege them."

The thread we're posting in is about healing not applying outside of groups. "Solo healer" is what a lot of people are calling players who heal while ungrouped.

We then get insulted for using that term, as if to correctly use the term "Solo healer", one has to 1vX an entire enemy zerg, while specced as a healer. This seemed to be a lack of understanding the CONTEXT of the discussion, so I turned the tables around and asked if a player could be called "solo" while grouped, since most people are using the term IN THIS DISCUSSION THREAD to mean ungrouped.

Then you go off again and insult "people", as if we're trying to appropriate some kind of glorious honor by using that term, while in your eyes we're just filthy zerg surfers or zerglings who you despise to the nth degree. Am I missing anything here?

You and Taylor both know damn well what people mean when they say solo healer. You can act like you don't but it's just an excuse for you to rag on peoples playstyles who you deem inadequate. It's rather disgusting, and obvious.

I'll ignore these insult posts from here on, I tried to be reasonable and create a civil conversation about peoples differing views, but it's just being used as an excuse to post more insults.

manny254

badmojo wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

Do you call a player with self heals and good survivability a solo player even when they are in a group?

Solo means ungrouped, it doesnt dictate the playstyle or build.

I love to imagine the internal monologues of those who think being un grouped means playing solo.

"Oh yes!!! Me and these 10 other player on my faction. We just soloed the heck out of that enemy player. Good to see enemy players fighting me in solo combat. I better find some way to assert the dominance of my solo play. I wonder if I should do what they call t bagging. I mean, I did do 1% of the damage on this person. I really think I earned this"

"Man did anyone see how I just soloed that keep? They had so many defender and I was just here solo. The faction had 20/20 siege and it was really all me soloing the keep. At one point I died standing on my solo ram and had to respawn at my solo camp. Someone else placed it, but they did it to keep my solo dreams alive. Solo players have to look out for each other when we stack with our faction."

"While I was playing solo with my faction, I ran into this disgusting group of zerglings. They had like 4 people and I was solo. So me and 16 others solo players went after them. I can't believe how trash these zerglings are. They all claim to be good players, but I just soloed them. They just didn't expect to run into a player as good as me. They even let me sit on the keep wall and siege them."

The thread we're posting in is about healing not applying outside of groups. "Solo healer" is what a lot of people are calling players who heal while ungrouped.

We then get insulted for using that term, as if to correctly use the term "Solo healer", one has to 1vX an entire enemy zerg, while specced as a healer. This seemed to be a lack of understanding the CONTEXT of the discussion, so I turned the tables around and asked if a player could be called "solo" while grouped, since most people are using the term IN THIS DISCUSSION THREAD to mean ungrouped.

Then you go off again and insult "people", as if we're trying to appropriate some kind of glorious honor by using that term, while in your eyes we're just filthy zerg surfers or zerglings who you despise to the nth degree. Am I missing anything here?

You and Taylor both know damn well what people mean when they say solo healer. You can act like you don't but it's just an excuse for you to rag on peoples playstyles who you deem inadequate. It's rather disgusting, and obvious.

I'll ignore these insult posts from here on, I tried to be reasonable and create a civil conversation about peoples differing views, but it's just being used as an excuse to post more insults.

I am not telling you how to play the game. Do whatever you want, but I am going to laugh when I read about people trying to redefine words.

Google the word "Solo" "done by one person alone; unaccompanied."

There is no such thing as a solo healer. At best you could heal yourself and kinda function as a tank. If you are trying to heal others, you are by definition not solo.

There is nothing wrong with trying to heal others while ungrouped, but no one should pretend it is playing solo.

Chilly-McFreeze

manny254 wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with trying to heal other while ungrouped.

And yet people enjoy that ZOS kills that playstyle. It's rather absurd.

FENGRUSH

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with trying to heal other while ungrouped.

And yet people enjoy that ZOS kills that playstyle. It's rather absurd.

Faction stacks usually include about 25 solo healers from the looks of it. Starts to create a pretty big mess when people actually soloing cant even kill a guy on siege who never reacts because theres so many healers soloing around him.

It's definitely a mindset change of how convenient, effective, and easy it is to be a 'solo healer' on the front line of a faction stack. It's also part if the reason the opposing faction will also create a blob of faction stack to fight back. Then we all get angry when the game lags.

alterfenixeb17_ESO

Sephyr wrote: »

Xuhora wrote: »

Luede wrote: »

there are two ways, u have a group setup with ur char so u play in a group, or u play solo, can survive solo, are able to win solo and even if allys are around you don't rely on their abilities.

running around, leeching APs by spamming heal to player u didnt know and die instantly if there is no zerg between u and the enemy is not a way.

this answer is kinda ignorant in my opinion. it follows the argument "real soloplay is playing solo alltogether". yes yes we can debate that with Gankers, Streakers, Snipers what ever. but this argument is not valid when we discuss the HEALER role, since this role is based on you supporting and healing other players! With this new implementation we, as the healers and supporters, are essentially forced to group up, because solo we are useless!

and even, EVEN we would be okay with that change and start puging more, there comes another point: Pugs are often Split up on the map or scattered while defending a keep. this makes our role as healer and supporters way more complicated than it needs to be, because good luck trying to figure out where your teammate is that needs heal, while other players from your alliance are dying left and right because you simply cannot heal them.

and now stop with that flimsy argument "real soloplayers play solo and dont zergsurf" please, this is not the point of this thread!

What many don't realize is that solo-healing is a viable mode of gameplay in Cyrodiil. I've seen people who were DPS, DIE, then come back with a healer build not even two minutes later and were some real MVPs. I could tell they weren't grouped because they weren't localizing their healing to one spot, but the weakest ones who had obvious difficulties struggling with trying to keep the enemy at bay, and in a lot of cases rezzing them. Sometimes they were spamming Rapid Maneuver just to get from place to place to make sure people on siege was fine and if not, they rezzed. They were also setting siege out for others when they were out. After the keep was clear, they stayed behind and actually helped clear the keep, which the majority of groups don't do nor seem like they really care. They were doing more for the alliance on DC than the several people who whine and cry that there aren't any 'organized' groups and then whine and cry when you tell them to start one. A lot of these solo healers don't want to deal with those types. They don't want to deal with the clashing of egos either. They just want to support their alliance and now they're not going to be able to do that unless they group.

And for the record, and for the people complaining about 'zergsurfing'? They're not actually SPECCED for healing just because they're spamming Restoration abilities. I rarely see them throwing down synergies, throwing out purges, using the siege shields appropriately, or helping sniff out ganks when they take a keep. People who think real solo healers are zergsurfers have no idea what real healers are in Cyrodiil unless they're in a group. That much is obvious to me. It's also obvious that people care too much about AP more than helping people on the map. They'd be better off in BGs with that mentality than they would in Cyrodiil.

Sadly this sums it up. Shame it may not be a viable option anymore. Also this point about clearing the keep is interesting how this will play out. Assuming healer and fps are from different groups: healer won't stay as their group is already on resources. Mindless zerglings running for easy AP and leader that just supports it (sorry but majority of players acts in Cyro just like that and this will unlikely change). Also DPS will not stay unless they have some solo spec as there will be no healer around to support them (same reason really).

LostToTheSea

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with trying to heal other while ungrouped.

And yet people enjoy that ZOS kills that playstyle. It's rather absurd.

Faction stacks usually include about 25 solo healers from the looks of it. Starts to create a pretty big mess when people actually soloing cant even kill a guy on siege who never reacts because theres so many healers soloing around him.

It's definitely a mindset change of how convenient, effective, and easy it is to be a 'solo healer' on the front line of a faction stack. It's also part if the reason the opposing faction will also create a blob of faction stack to fight back. Then we all get angry when the game lags.

1. We all know this isn't going to fix lag. Even ZoS knows that. It's not even going to significantly reduce it.
2. Not every 'solo healer' or 'ungrouped healer' (Idc what people want to label it as) surfs a faction stack. I fight alongside them against far greater odds often, then we go our own ways until the next time we find one another in battle.

I'll give an example that occurs very frequently in Cyro and an actual one that happened the other night. The main force or "faction stack" is at Ash locked in a siege. Somebody makes an UA call of a full raid+ PVDooring Brindle.. I port in and of course, there's only 5 of us there as it flags.. Luckily for us, one of the elite healers of the faction responded and we simply leap off the walls not caring what will become of us. We nearly full wipe the raid, but they get a FC. The fighting goes on for 25 minutes and eventually 30+ of them overrun the keep while some of our few are on FC timers. It was an epic fight and one that happened under our terms. What about now? That will *never* happen again, unless those players tie one another to a chain and stop their *preferred* style of free roaming the open world looking for/responding to dynamic encounters. Not everyone wants to play this game under constant order of a crown or the need to constantly be on the move, just so they can play with allied players from time to time. Is it necessary that those players stop what they are doing and group to have such an engagement? Nonsense indeed. This is faction warfare.

I asked 4 of the other players about the healing changes in particular after the fight. 3/4 are leaving the game on Monday.. The 4th voiced that they had hope that the community would talk ZoS out of this. These are some of the most skilled players I know in PC NA. Not some 'zergling trash' or 'lag inducing faction stacker'. Very competent and skilled players in just about any scenario that avoid primetime lag. Nobody has ever been forced to join a group to take such an engagement in all these years, but now we are? No, we'll just leave. I suspect we aren't the only ones that are of the same thought or intention.

Joy_Division

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with trying to heal other while ungrouped.

And yet people enjoy that ZOS kills that playstyle. It's rather absurd.

Faction stacks usually include about 25 solo healers from the looks of it. Starts to create a pretty big mess when people actually soloing cant even kill a guy on siege who never reacts because theres so many healers soloing around him.

It's definitely a mindset change of how convenient, effective, and easy it is to be a 'solo healer' on the front line of a faction stack. It's also part if the reason the opposing faction will also create a blob of faction stack to fight back. Then we all get angry when the game lags.

Oh this is rich. Explain again how your streaming army that comprises a faction stack is not a convenient, effective, and easy way to play? Or how that mass of blue blob of orc stam sorcs has nothing to do with the AD blobs that counter it.

Faded

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Faction stacks usually include about 25 solo healers from the looks of it. Starts to create a pretty big mess when people actually soloing cant even kill a guy on siege who never reacts because theres so many healers soloing around him.

It's definitely a mindset change of how convenient, effective, and easy it is to be a 'solo healer' on the front line of a faction stack. It's also part if the reason the opposing faction will also create a blob of faction stack to fight back. Then we all get angry when the game lags.

Who knew it was those *** with a healstick on their backbar who were ruining the PVP all this time. They seem so helpful and nice, and even brave in their light armor and trusting reliance on the strangers they're allied with, jumping down off the walls into the fray like they belong there too.

Good thing this change will precision target faction stacks doing things you don't approve of and nobody else anywhere on the map. Or groups of real PVPers, imagine if you and your boys couldn't heal and buff and guard each other, that would suck.

Brovah

So ballgroups that think they are good will be even stronger now.. this shifts the pvp to the organized try hards that roll over all the randoms..
Super boring.. This will make ppl leave if this stays in live.. will it not?

Too bad that the performance is so bad that they have to alter the original ideas of the game..

Maybe we all have to make a stand to let ZOS know that we don't like these game altering changes...

alterfenixeb17_ESO

Brovah wrote: »

So ballgroups that think they are good will be even stronger now.. this shifts the pvp to the organized try hards that roll over all the randoms..
Super boring.. This will make ppl leave if this stays in live.. will it not?

Actually they already made some people leave. And from this announcement it would seem that yes, it for the time being (possibly indefinitely) stays on live.

Too bad that the performance is so bad that they have to alter the original ideas of the game..

Maybe we all have to make a stand to let ZOS know that we don't like these game altering changes...

Again this change according to official announcement has nothing to do with performance.

Kartalin

alterfenixeb17_ESO wrote: »

Also DPS will not stay unless they have some solo spec as there will be no healer around to support them (same reason really).

The lack of a healer has never stopped the AD pugs on Ravenwatch from running headlong into death to this point.

FENGRUSH

Joy_Division wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with trying to heal other while ungrouped.

And yet people enjoy that ZOS kills that playstyle. It's rather absurd.

Faction stacks usually include about 25 solo healers from the looks of it. Starts to create a pretty big mess when people actually soloing cant even kill a guy on siege who never reacts because theres so many healers soloing around him.

It's definitely a mindset change of how convenient, effective, and easy it is to be a 'solo healer' on the front line of a faction stack. It's also part if the reason the opposing faction will also create a blob of faction stack to fight back. Then we all get angry when the game lags.

Oh this is rich. Explain again how your streaming army that comprises a faction stack is not a convenient, effective, and easy way to play? Or how that mass of blue blob of orc stam sorcs has nothing to do with the AD blobs that counter it.

Welp, I'm not against changes that address faction stacking. I know you're upset at the people that follow along the stream, but they'd be impacted all the same. The reality is we win battles because our group is better than our opponents, including your group.

Only success AD has had on ravenwatch is lagging the server or PvDooring. You guys will still be able to do both. All hope isnt lost for you yet.

Hexquisite

The week of testing that had this in place withou the cooldowns, was one of the best balanced most fun weeks I played.

My average group size is 6, usually with no healer (though we do run larger/smaller at times and sometimes have a dedicated healer) We all carry an off heal, and it is awesome to know it will hit someone in group--not some "1vXer"

Yes, during this week, pushing keeps was harder, as we didn't benefit from all the other healers spamming heals and purge at the breach--but it made for a different kind of fighting and different strategies.

But also, we benefited in smaller fights where we were outnumbered, from the other factions not being able to have 2 healers for every DPS.

P.S. If you still want to solo heal, you can still benefit other players as they can use your synergies (if they keep it the same) Throw some defiles out too.