Khajit vs Wood Elf for Stealth Stamina Nightblade

vpy

I am back to the game after a long time.
So I am still rusty.

With respect to stealth/stamina/sneaking nightblade, I used to think Wood Elf or Khajit as the best with their racial skills are pretty similar and equal.

I looked at ESO Skill Factory now and I am confused

Khajit has this racial passive

Feline Ambush : Increased 10% crit damage and healing, Decreases your stealth detection radius by 3 metres

while Wood Elf has this

Hunter's Eye : Increases your stealth detection radius by 3 metres.

Did they change it ?

So I assume for sneaking/stam nightblade Khajit is the better option..am i right ?

zaria

Yes for some reason Bosmer lots the stealth bonus back before Elsweyr.

For stealing Khajiit is better, for PvP Bosmer has some nice benefit and bonus crit damage is not so strong in PvP because of inpren.

Zodiarkslayer

Yes Khajiit is best for staying hidden. But stealth is a 'Solo thing'. If you enjoy it, great!

Woodelf is dangerous for group content like dungeons. Especially as bow/bow build. They tend to overestimate their usefulness as DPS. Use a combat metrics addon if you can. So you know where you stand!

A tanks biggest nightmare: Bosmer Bow light attack spammer. Bigger than three Maw of the infernals.

And a healers nightmare too. Because bosmer tend to be weaker in terms of armor and MaxHealth. Most kyte around a lot and thus dont stay in Area of heal. And then they die anyways.

Bucky_13

Khajiit is better, but as a nb you also have cloak, which makes stealth detection a moot point if you use certain sets and is a vampire. Those setups aren't very good for combat however. On those builds, extra mag comes in handy, which is why I like dunmers despite the lack on sneak bonus.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

You could say we no longer have bosmer in game. We have khajiit and ohmes khajiit. Because they ripped bosmer's whole identity from them and gave them very khajiiti traits.

Araneae6537

Oh, oh, salt in the wound! For the stealth part, yes, Khajiit are better; Hunter’s Eye is a useless stupid passive that I don’t even put skill points in.

I do have a stealthy Bosmer nightblade and with all medium armor passives and wearing Night Terror and Night Mother’s Embrace (Darloc Brae would be another options but the weird lights effect makes me feel like a headache is coming on) and she is both stealthy and quick.

I do also have a stealthy Khajiit nightblade and am still experimenting with her armor. Since she doesn’t need the reduction is stealth detection radius, I tried Shadow Dancer and that was crazy, to be zooming about in stealth so fast! It might be fun to try in PvP but for thievery, it made me liable to overshoot my target, tripping over the safebox as it were!

Edit: I could have sworn that Shadow Dancer gave 25% movement increase while sneaking, but I see that like Night’s Silence, it only removes the movement penalty. I must have paired it with something else that increased movement speed specifically while sneaking, but now I cannot figure out what...

Edit 2: It must have been the combo of Shadow Dancer and slotting Concealed Weapon that made me go faster stealthed than normal running around! I’m currently experimenting with hybrid builds for my Khajiit nightblade.

Fennwitty

If you're stealthy, you'll probably want to pickpocket too. Khajiit get a bonus to pickpocket success as well.

Starlight_Whisper

Remember when they promised sleath detection would be useful?

Uryel

vpy wrote: »

I am back to the game after a long time.
So I am still rusty.

With respect to stealth/stamina/sneaking nightblade, I used to think Wood Elf or Khajit as the best with their racial skills are pretty similar and equal.

I looked at ESO Skill Factory now and I am confused

Khajit has this racial passive

Feline Ambush : Increased 10% crit damage and healing, Decreases your stealth detection radius by 3 metres

while Wood Elf has this

Hunter's Eye : Increases your stealth detection radius by 3 metres.

Did they change it ?

So I assume for sneaking/stam nightblade Khajit is the better option..am i right ?

They did change it a while ago. And that was one silly bulldung change among others. Argonians no longer resist poison, despite every argonian NPC and their mother bragging about how they eat poison for breakfast ; high elves now regenerate whichever LOWER ressource pool they have instead of magicka...

This change means Bosmers' true racial trait is now having 3 free skill points, considering how utterly useless the new racial trait is. I mean, there are NO stealthed enemies in PvE. Ever. And even in PvP, the use is dubious to say the least.

My Bosmer, created like 5 or 6 years ago, took an over-a-year-long hiatus. She was my thief, and became entirely useless at it, as there was no way to recover from that low blow. Now, with antiquities, she can have 4 meter detection reduction AND a decent speed boost, but that's still sub par compared to before that change. This is madness, I tell you. This needs to be fixed, but seing the balance team does change things with PvP in mind, we're not gonna see that fixed any time soon I'm afraid.

Sylvermynx

With five pieces of Darloc Brae on my bosmer NBs, they're pretty damn stealthy. Can crouch right next to a safebox, get it open with a guard right there.

Without Darloc? Nopenopenope. Go for the khajiit for sure!

Flaaklypa

if anyone recommend u khajit over woodelf, they do not know pvp.

Woodelf is hands down stronger, in sustain, in burst, even in crit damage. Yes, crit damage.

Due to the woodelf pen after roll dodge, your damage will be higher, and your crit will do more damage, than a khajit, with a weak base damage, and higher crit % damage.

Someone tested this, even orcs outdamages khajits in crits too.

Not to mention, the base damage on NON crits is obviously way better than khajits.

Im sorry, even tho many players like the playstyle of being a huge cat, its not meta, not even close to a proper NB class like Bosmer.

Sylvermynx

Flaaklypa wrote: »

if anyone recommend u khajit over woodelf, they do not know pvp.

Woodelf is hands down stronger, in sustain, in burst, even in crit damage. Yes, crit damage.

Due to the woodelf pen after roll dodge, your damage will be higher, and your crit will do more damage, than a khajit, with a weak base damage, and higher crit % damage.

Someone tested this, even orcs outdamages khajits in crits too.

Not to mention, the base damage on NON crits is obviously way better than khajits.

Im sorry, even tho many players like the playstyle of being a huge cat, its not meta, not even close to a proper NB class like Bosmer.

Not sure OP was talking about pvp - no mention in his post....

BlueRaven

Imperials, yes imperials, are better at stealth then wood elves now. That’s how dumb the new race traits are.

Araneae6537

BlueRaven wrote: »

Imperials, yes imperials, are better at stealth then wood elves now. That’s how dumb the new race traits are.

How do you figure that? I looked up Imperial passives and don’t see how they would be any better at stealth than Bosmer.

I totally agree about the changes to racial traits being wrong though, even if stealth detection was remotely useful, it still does not fit.

zaria

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

Remember when they promised sleath detection would be useful?

It has some use in PvP especially IC but it niche, much more than stealth who is nice stealing, soloing and in PvP.
Playing an stamina Khajit I had just run and hide then group get hit hard, then ress group.

Now I did not see any differences going from 2*2 meter sneak detection to 3*2 meter on Khajiit in medium farming locker boxes.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

Araneae6537 wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Imperials, yes imperials, are better at stealth then wood elves now. That’s how dumb the new race traits are.

How do you figure that? I looked up Imperial passives and don’t see how they would be any better at stealth than Bosmer.

I totally agree about the changes to racial traits being wrong though, even if stealth detection was remotely useful, it still does not fit.

Because imperials have a cost reduction of all abilities. Including stealth. So imperials are technically better at stealth than bosmer.

Cundu_Ertur

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

Remember when they promised sleath detection would be useful?

No. And even if it were (and it isn't), it doesn't belong to Bosmer. Bosmer are stealthy. No stealth, not Bosmer.

Imperials are better at stealth because they have a reduction to the cost of all actions; thus they are able to sneak around using less stamina while moving.

Ratzkifal

Obligatory Bosmer stealth is gone meme.

Bosmer are as good as any other race for stealth now, with the exception of Imperials who get sneak cost reduction now. Khajiit are the best, for the rest it's okay. The major drawback is that you now have to be geared for stealth to be as good as you used to be.

Khajiit on the otherhand, when completely geared for stealth, can essentially turn invisible to guards. Lantern guards are a different story.

barney2525

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

Yes Khajiit is best for staying hidden. But stealth is a 'Solo thing'. If you enjoy it, great!

Woodelf is dangerous for group content like dungeons. Especially as bow/bow build. They tend to overestimate their usefulness as DPS. Use a combat metrics addon if you can. So you know where you stand!

A tanks biggest nightmare: Bosmer Bow light attack spammer. Bigger than three Maw of the infernals.

And a healers nightmare too. Because bosmer tend to be weaker in terms of armor and MaxHealth. Most kyte around a lot and thus dont stay in Area of heal. And then they die anyways.

I can't tell if your position is that Bosmer bobo is good or bad.

Araneae6537

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Araneae6537 wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Imperials, yes imperials, are better at stealth then wood elves now. That’s how dumb the new race traits are.

How do you figure that? I looked up Imperial passives and don’t see how they would be any better at stealth than Bosmer.

I totally agree about the changes to racial traits being wrong though, even if stealth detection was remotely useful, it still does not fit.

Because imperials have a cost reduction of all abilities. Including stealth. So imperials are technically better at stealth than bosmer.

But Bosmer have enhanced stamina recovery...

I would suggest that the only relevant metrics of stealthiness is detection followed by speed while stealthed. As far as I have seen, the cost of stealth is negligible, even without CP or ledgerdomain passives that reduce cost (which I’ve yet to see a need for and I’ve done the most stealthing on my Bosmer).

Cundu_Ertur

While moving in stealth stam regen is stopped. You have to pause for a while for the stam bar to refill. So an Imperial can sneak farther, all other factors being even.

BlueRaven

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Obligatory Bosmer stealth is gone meme.

Araneae6537

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

While moving in stealth stam regen is stopped. You have to pause for a while for the stam bar to refill. So an Imperial can sneak farther, all other factors being even.

I see your point. With the cost reductions from wearing six pieces of medium armor, the cost is negligible, but no doubt there are instances where that would be important. Argh, I wish I didn’t have to wear sets to reduce stealth detection and could focus on speed and damage primarily! Now you have managed to make me more upset, lol! It was bad enough that Bosmer had lost theit stealth bonus and instead have Hunter’s Eye (stupidest racial passive in the game!) and resistance to poison, which makes no sense considering what we learn even in just ESO.

Make Bosmer stealthy again!!!

Zodiarkslayer

barney2525 wrote: »

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

Yes Khajiit is best for staying hidden. But stealth is a 'Solo thing'. If you enjoy it, great!

Woodelf is dangerous for group content like dungeons. Especially as bow/bow build. They tend to overestimate their usefulness as DPS. Use a combat metrics addon if you can. So you know where you stand!

A tanks biggest nightmare: Bosmer Bow light attack spammer. Bigger than three Maw of the infernals.

And a healers nightmare too. Because bosmer tend to be weaker in terms of armor and MaxHealth. Most kyte around a lot and thus dont stay in Area of heal. And then they die anyways.

I can't tell if your position is that Bosmer bobo is good or bad.

Bosmer BowBow is bad for everyone, even Bosmer BowBow!

Flaaklypa

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Flaaklypa wrote: »

if anyone recommend u khajit over woodelf, they do not know pvp.

Woodelf is hands down stronger, in sustain, in burst, even in crit damage. Yes, crit damage.

Due to the woodelf pen after roll dodge, your damage will be higher, and your crit will do more damage, than a khajit, with a weak base damage, and higher crit % damage.

Someone tested this, even orcs outdamages khajits in crits too.

Not to mention, the base damage on NON crits is obviously way better than khajits.

Im sorry, even tho many players like the playstyle of being a huge cat, its not meta, not even close to a proper NB class like Bosmer.

Not sure OP was talking about pvp - no mention in his post....

This is true, i sometimes forget this game has other things than pvp somtimes hehehe

Fennwitty

But Bosmer do have the famous ability to always land on their feet right? Right?

Obviously not something you'd expect from a Khajiit.

Sylvermynx

Flaaklypa wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Flaaklypa wrote: »

if anyone recommend u khajit over woodelf, they do not know pvp.

Woodelf is hands down stronger, in sustain, in burst, even in crit damage. Yes, crit damage.

Due to the woodelf pen after roll dodge, your damage will be higher, and your crit will do more damage, than a khajit, with a weak base damage, and higher crit % damage.

Someone tested this, even orcs outdamages khajits in crits too.

Not to mention, the base damage on NON crits is obviously way better than khajits.

Im sorry, even tho many players like the playstyle of being a huge cat, its not meta, not even close to a proper NB class like Bosmer.

Not sure OP was talking about pvp - no mention in his post....

This is true, i sometimes forget this game has other things than pvp somtimes hehehe

And I tend to never remember pvp as it's not at all anything I find fun!

NotaDaedraWorshipper

Fennwitty wrote: »

But Bosmer do have the famous ability to always land on their feet right? Right?

Obviously not something you'd expect from a Khajiit.

Not only are they good at landing from high heights, but they have excellent eyesight too! Which is not a racial khajiit have had throughout the series at all

Cundu_Ertur

Fennwitty wrote: »

But Bosmer do have the famous ability to always land on their feet right? Right?

Obviously not something you'd expect from a Khajiit.

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Fennwitty wrote: »

But Bosmer do have the famous ability to always land on their feet right? Right?

Obviously not something you'd expect from a Khajiit.

Not only are they good at landing from high heights, but they have excellent eyesight too! Which is not a racial khajiit have had throughout the series at all

Which is why several of us continue to point out that currently we don't have any Bosmer at all, just Bosmer-shaped Khajiit called Ohmes.

So, all of those people asking for Ohmes, you already got 'em. Those who want to play as Bosmer can have a box full of nothing.

Finedaible

Khajiit are only good for PvE stealth, which amounts to stealing and Dark Brotherhood stuff which has limited usefulness.

Bosmer has a better edge in PvP where the extra stam recovery and poison resistance help, and stamina specs rely on dodge-rolling there.

The posts about how long each race can sneak are irrelevant with a proper build. In PvE you can just use Darloc Brae set for infinite sneak sustain, and in PvP you aren't going to be sneaking across the whole of Cyrodill. Vampire sneak passive goes a long ways in both PvE and PvP.

Cundu_Ertur

Finedaible wrote: »

Bosmer has a better edge in PvP where the extra stam recovery

Which is a completely different passive, and entirely unrelated to Hunter's Eye...

Finedaible wrote: »

and poison resistance help,

which is also a completely different passive...

Finedaible wrote: »

and stamina specs rely on dodge-rolling there.

Which is, finally, a relevant point; but considering that is an athletic and acrobatic thing, and Khajiit were the race that had the biggest bonuses to athletics and acrobatics, it just further goes to illustrate the fact that there are no Bosmer in this game, just two different kinds of Khajiit: Cathay and Ohmes.

Finedaible wrote: »

The posts about how long each race can sneak are irrelevant with a proper build. In PvE you can just use Darloc Brae set for infinite sneak sustain, and in PvP you aren't going to be sneaking across the whole of Cyrodill. Vampire sneak passive goes a long ways in both PvE and PvP.

The point is, Bosmer are supposed to be master thieves. Show me the racial passive that reflects this. You can't, because there isn't one. They are not athletic acrobats. Khajiit are. So instead of the bonus to sneaking, which Bosmer ought to have, they were given a completely 100% useless detection bonus, which is only suited to GUARDS. There is not the slightest justification for this in the lore, anywhere. And before you say something silly like "ooooo but they are hunters," there is one, and only one, lore source stating that Bosmer are good hunters, and that source specifies that they are deadly hunters because of their skill at AMBUSH. Not tracking, but hiding and jumping out of the shadows. I do not give a rotten rat's rectum for how wonderful the roll dodge shenanigans are in PVP. Could not care less. I wouldn't care if every enemy in Cyrodiil dropped dead the second I roll-dodged. It's a garbage skill, based on a complete lack of understanding of what Bosmer are all about. But you know what? if Bosmer got their proper stealth bonus back (with the detection bonus going back to the farthest and deepest pit of hell where it belongs), with the rest of the skill remaining as it is right now, I would be satisfied. Even though it is garbage.