Battlegrounds: Allow DM mode

Minyassa

Before they screwed around with the queue to begin with I was already hearing people complaining often that randos were treating every match like a DM regardless of the actual objectives, making it impossible to enjoy a game with different objectives. Not letting people choose the mode they want will just make this worse as we know that people cannot simply cooperate and will just run over others doing what they want to do. Teamwork is dead in the modern world. Please listen to the OP and spare those of us who want to play other types of games from having DM forced on us in non-DM modes.

Olupajmibanan

Supporting those that want deathmatch as separate queue option in addition to random group queue (which would not include DM in that case) and disagreeing with those that want DM as the only mode for group queue.

We need to provide players with options and not to limit them. We want to play also other modes with our friends, so any solution that does not take this option is welcome.

Starlight_Whisper

Xiomaro wrote: »

It would make sense to have a deathmatch only queue. Queuing random at high MMR meant deathmatch 90% of the time before this patch so it's clearly the most popular game mode. I also know a few people who only queued Land Grab but there aren't nearly as many of those people.

Personally, I love all the different modes so I'm fine with the current situation but I think I'm probably in the minority - at least among the people who mostly just play BGs.

I only like flag games 😑

Waffennacht

Maybe they jist get rid of everything but death match.


Who even asked for the other modes?

Ysbriel

Battlegrounds is were it needs to be at. no more changes.

Olupajmibanan

Waffennacht wrote: »

Maybe they jist get rid of everything but death match.


Who even asked for the other modes?

Maybe those that enjoy traditional objective-based small-scalle PvP that requires actual thought and well-developed strategy? You can brainlessly attack everyone on sight in Cyrodiil/IC.

eKsDee

Waffennacht wrote: »

Maybe they jist get rid of everything but death match.


Who even asked for the other modes?

IMO there should be objective-based game modes, ideally alongside a straight deathmatch game mode, but the objective-based game modes need to encourage actually fighting other players, instead of running away and rotating objectives.

From what I've seen, most players who primarily enjoy deathmatch at least feel indifferent about crazy king and chaosball (some players even enjoy them), because both of those still funnel players towards one or two primary objectives, which basically forces them to actually fight other players.

Domination and capture-the-relic are the two problem game modes, as they encourage not fighting other players -- domination is most effectively played when you ignore fights and focus solely on rotating points, and capture-the-relic only forces fights on the relic spawns, and encourage the third team to basically score while the other two teams are fighting (which discourages fights off the relic spawns).

If it were me, I'd remove domination and capture-the-relic, leaving the other 3 in, and I'd maybe fine tune crazy king and chaosball a bit to discourage building as a tank, so that matches encourage fighting other players as much as possible.

Unfortunately, everyone is right. The PvP population in ESO is already depressingly low, and the BG population is even lower. There's likely not enough players to sustain a match making system that has separate solo and solo + group queues, on top of allowing players to select which exact game mode(s) they want to play.

A solution that would appease everybody would probably require an extremely exotic match making system that can allow the random queues to pull from the specific game mode queues (ie the random queue is just a union of all the specific game mode queues -- the random queue can pull players from the specific game mode queues when a game mode is chosen, and vice versa), which I can guarantee Zenimax would probably fail to implement, since it involves a bunch of intertwined logic that's easy to confuse.

So that leaves us with sacrificing something to unify the population more, and so my vote is on keeping a single random queue, but removing the two least enjoyed game modes and making the two remaining objective-based game modes encourage fighting other players more.

Olupajmibanan

eKsDee wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Maybe they jist get rid of everything but death match.


Who even asked for the other modes?

IMO there should be objective-based game modes, ideally alongside a straight deathmatch game mode, but the objective-based game modes need to encourage actually fighting other players, instead of running away and rotating objectives.

From what I've seen, most players who primarily enjoy deathmatch at least feel indifferent about crazy king and chaosball (some players even enjoy them), because both of those still funnel players towards one or two primary objectives, which basically forces them to actually fight other players.

Domination and capture-the-relic are the two problem game modes, as they encourage not fighting other players -- domination is most effectively played when you ignore fights and focus solely on rotating points, and capture-the-relic only forces fights on the relic spawns, and encourage the third team to basically score while the other two teams are fighting (which discourages fights off the relic spawns).

If it were me, I'd remove domination and capture-the-relic, leaving the other 3 in, and I'd maybe fine tune crazy king and chaosball a bit to discourage building as a tank, so that matches encourage fighting other players as much as possible.

Unfortunately, everyone is right. The PvP population in ESO is already depressingly low, and the BG population is even lower. There's likely not enough players to sustain a match making system that has separate solo and solo + group queues, on top of allowing players to select which exact game mode(s) they want to play.

A solution is probably going to require an extremely exotic match making system that can allow the random queues to pull from the same matches within the specific game mode queues (which Zenimax probably doesn't have the time, resources or experience to build), or, more likely, is going to require a sacrifice somewhere, and my vote is on axing the least enjoyed game modes.

CTR and domination are the most traditional objective-based modes in MMOs (and also FPSes) in general, which tend to work well and their popularity isn't declining. But their concept was built around 2 teams fightning each other over resepctive objectives. Introduction of 3rd team breaks this concept. But still, simply removing them may be a temporary workaround but definitely not a long-term solution. Tradition of these modes is too prevalent to simply ignore it.

eKsDee

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

eKsDee wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Maybe they jist get rid of everything but death match.


Who even asked for the other modes?

IMO there should be objective-based game modes, ideally alongside a straight deathmatch game mode, but the objective-based game modes need to encourage actually fighting other players, instead of running away and rotating objectives.

From what I've seen, most players who primarily enjoy deathmatch at least feel indifferent about crazy king and chaosball (some players even enjoy them), because both of those still funnel players towards one or two primary objectives, which basically forces them to actually fight other players.

Domination and capture-the-relic are the two problem game modes, as they encourage not fighting other players -- domination is most effectively played when you ignore fights and focus solely on rotating points, and capture-the-relic only forces fights on the relic spawns, and encourage the third team to basically score while the other two teams are fighting (which discourages fights off the relic spawns).

If it were me, I'd remove domination and capture-the-relic, leaving the other 3 in, and I'd maybe fine tune crazy king and chaosball a bit to discourage building as a tank, so that matches encourage fighting other players as much as possible.

Unfortunately, everyone is right. The PvP population in ESO is already depressingly low, and the BG population is even lower. There's likely not enough players to sustain a match making system that has separate solo and solo + group queues, on top of allowing players to select which exact game mode(s) they want to play.

A solution is probably going to require an extremely exotic match making system that can allow the random queues to pull from the same matches within the specific game mode queues (which Zenimax probably doesn't have the time, resources or experience to build), or, more likely, is going to require a sacrifice somewhere, and my vote is on axing the least enjoyed game modes.

CTR and domination are the most traditional objective-based modes in MMOs (and also FPSes) in general, which tend to work well and their popularity isn't declining. But their concept was build around 2 teams fightning each other over resepctive objectives. Introduction of 3rd team breaks this concept. But simply removing them may be a temporary workaround but definitely not a long-term solution. Tradition of these modes is too prevalent to simply ignore it.

That's all well and good when there's a population to sustain all game modes, but there just isn't. Something is going to have to give, if players want to be able to actually play the game modes they enjoy, because the only other alternative is something that I'm not sure Zenimax could implement. As I said, if we're gonna have to sacrifice something, my vote is on those two game modes.

WolF_cze

eKsDee wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

eKsDee wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Maybe they jist get rid of everything but death match.


Who even asked for the other modes?

IMO there should be objective-based game modes, ideally alongside a straight deathmatch game mode, but the objective-based game modes need to encourage actually fighting other players, instead of running away and rotating objectives.

From what I've seen, most players who primarily enjoy deathmatch at least feel indifferent about crazy king and chaosball (some players even enjoy them), because both of those still funnel players towards one or two primary objectives, which basically forces them to actually fight other players.

Domination and capture-the-relic are the two problem game modes, as they encourage not fighting other players -- domination is most effectively played when you ignore fights and focus solely on rotating points, and capture-the-relic only forces fights on the relic spawns, and encourage the third team to basically score while the other two teams are fighting (which discourages fights off the relic spawns).

If it were me, I'd remove domination and capture-the-relic, leaving the other 3 in, and I'd maybe fine tune crazy king and chaosball a bit to discourage building as a tank, so that matches encourage fighting other players as much as possible.

Unfortunately, everyone is right. The PvP population in ESO is already depressingly low, and the BG population is even lower. There's likely not enough players to sustain a match making system that has separate solo and solo + group queues, on top of allowing players to select which exact game mode(s) they want to play.

A solution is probably going to require an extremely exotic match making system that can allow the random queues to pull from the same matches within the specific game mode queues (which Zenimax probably doesn't have the time, resources or experience to build), or, more likely, is going to require a sacrifice somewhere, and my vote is on axing the least enjoyed game modes.

CTR and domination are the most traditional objective-based modes in MMOs (and also FPSes) in general, which tend to work well and their popularity isn't declining. But their concept was build around 2 teams fightning each other over resepctive objectives. Introduction of 3rd team breaks this concept. But simply removing them may be a temporary workaround but definitely not a long-term solution. Tradition of these modes is too prevalent to simply ignore it.

That's all well and good when there's a population to sustain all game modes, but there just isn't. Something is going to have to give, if players want to be able to actually play the game modes they enjoy, because the only other alternative is something that I'm not sure Zenimax could implement. As I said, if we're gonna have to sacrifice something, my vote is on those two game modes.

But I am still not sure about it. If you want a specific mode you wait - waiting is a price you pay for it. If you do not want a specific mode you take random and you do not wait.

Nevertheless, I strongly disagree with the current system. Today again I have playing games when people just left at the beginning likely because they disliked the mode which was selected.

Parasaurolophus

Everything you are arguing about here is completely meaningless. The main problem for BG now is low pop. PvP for some reason in this game is generally not attractive to most people. High entry threshold? Lags in Cyrodil? Bad rewards? I don't know ... But while for pvp there are not enough people, it is necessary to be satisfied with that is. But it is necessary to correct a problem not with trifles like a mode choice.

idk

Urvoth wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I think it was a good decision to not fragment the BG queue further by having everyone queue for random BGs. Being able to queue with a group of friends is much more important than being able to queue for a specific type of BG.

Exactly, @idk.

You can either have a split queue between solos/pre-mades OR a single queue by match mode. But you can't have both.

Why not? The majority of people that regularly and primarily play BGs almost exclusively played DM. That's been the case since long before the solo queue was added. ZOS could just add a DM and non DM queuing option to the regular queue and keep the solo queue random.

Because the player base active in BGs is not large enough to support both without sacrificing queue times. Also, I seriously doubt anyone has real numbers for those that queue exclusively for DM. Many get sucked into DMs to fill the matches for those that queued for them specifically.

Zos made a good decision. Being able to choose between solo queue and group queue is more significant than being able to queue for specific matches. That has been a much hotter topic since BGs were added to the game.

Why do you think that? Do you frequently play BGs? The BG regulars have been complaining in various BG guilds and discords about not having the option to play DM ever since the patch. All the pvp streamers ONLY chose to queue DM in the past, all the BG guilds only played DM, and even regular solo players were DM only. If there was an option between DM and the other game modes, DM would be the mode filling games quickly.

That would be the BG regulars you know of from them voicing their throughs in those venues. I expect it is very much like the forums that most do not say anything because they do not visit the discord and such.

Considering this thread or forums are not on fire with people claiming they want such a choice I question the claim that "The majority of people that regularly and primarily play BGs almost exclusively played DM" is based on real information. Please back up such a claim with real numbers of people who chose to queue for DMs vs all participants in BGs. Remember, total participants in DMs is meaningless that does not mean that is their choice as the GF would place random queues into DMs as well.

Just asking for verification of such a claim since that is the basis of what you are saying.

nqvarihs

idk wrote: »

That would be the BG regulars you know of from them voicing their throughs in those venues. I expect it is very much like the forums that most do not say anything because they do not visit the discord and such.

Considering this thread or forums are not on fire with people claiming they want such a choice I question the claim that "The majority of people that regularly and primarily play BGs almost exclusively played DM" is based on real information. Please back up such a claim with real numbers of people who chose to queue for DMs vs all participants in BGs. Remember, total participants in DMs is meaningless that does not mean that is their choice as the GF would place random queues into DMs as well.

Just asking for verification of such a claim since that is the basis of what you are saying.

and do you have any sort of numbers on the bg population being too low to support selective mode queue? the average queue time at specific times of the day? based on mmr, total bg playtime, and chosen gamemodes/random? and the numbers with only random?

Just asking for verification of such a claim since that is the basis of what you are saying.

though i just want to point out that you will really use any sort of flawed logic or anything to agree with zos. you dismiss any feedback as 'not being representative of the total game population'. well it never is as there is thousands of people playing daily and discords/forums are a few dozens players. but if you ignore it, what sort of feedback do you base your decisions on? a dice roll?

Remember, total participants in DMs is meaningless that does not mean that is their choice as the GF would place random queues into DMs as well.

when you asked players who were high mmr and still queued for random, they'd tell you they would get DM most of the time, which means more players played DM. which was backed up by the leaderboards scores. inb4 you come up with another nonsensical excuse like "uhh you get more medal points in DM lolxd"

and i dont even have to talk about how you avoided the question about whether you actually played bg, it is more than apparent in your posts that you have played at most a handful in the last year. so why are you participating in a discussion when you are not concerned by the changes? the feedback you're providing is (literally) useless if you don't play bg's.

Urvoth

idk wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I think it was a good decision to not fragment the BG queue further by having everyone queue for random BGs. Being able to queue with a group of friends is much more important than being able to queue for a specific type of BG.

Exactly, @idk.

You can either have a split queue between solos/pre-mades OR a single queue by match mode. But you can't have both.

Why not? The majority of people that regularly and primarily play BGs almost exclusively played DM. That's been the case since long before the solo queue was added. ZOS could just add a DM and non DM queuing option to the regular queue and keep the solo queue random.

Because the player base active in BGs is not large enough to support both without sacrificing queue times. Also, I seriously doubt anyone has real numbers for those that queue exclusively for DM. Many get sucked into DMs to fill the matches for those that queued for them specifically.

Zos made a good decision. Being able to choose between solo queue and group queue is more significant than being able to queue for specific matches. That has been a much hotter topic since BGs were added to the game.

Why do you think that? Do you frequently play BGs? The BG regulars have been complaining in various BG guilds and discords about not having the option to play DM ever since the patch. All the pvp streamers ONLY chose to queue DM in the past, all the BG guilds only played DM, and even regular solo players were DM only. If there was an option between DM and the other game modes, DM would be the mode filling games quickly.

That would be the BG regulars you know of from them voicing their throughs in those venues. I expect it is very much like the forums that most do not say anything because they do not visit the discord and such.

Considering this thread or forums are not on fire with people claiming they want such a choice I question the claim that "The majority of people that regularly and primarily play BGs almost exclusively played DM" is based on real information. Please back up such a claim with real numbers of people who chose to queue for DMs vs all participants in BGs. Remember, total participants in DMs is meaningless that does not mean that is their choice as the GF would place random queues into DMs as well.

Just asking for verification of such a claim since that is the basis of what you are saying.

Do you regularly play BGs? It's extremely obvious that DM is the preferred mode for most people who actually play BGs regularly. Not only is this the general consensus of the BG streamers, but it's also the overwhelming opinion of the largest social BG guild on PC NA (300+ people) and all the smaller, more focused BG guilds.

Saying stuff like this makes it seem like you really aren't involved in the BG scene, which would make sense unless you're on a different platform, because no one I've talked to on PC NA has seen you in BGs before. The BG community is filled with players that basically login and mostly just play BGs. Everyone knows each other or sees the regulars around, so it's very easy to gauge the community's opinion on certain changes and taking away the queue for DM is extremely unpopular.

FangOfTheTwoMoons

Let us vote on the gamemode/map before every match. Simple as that.

GrigorijMalahevich

So much yes...


DM separate queue!!!!!!

Recapitated

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

WolF_cze wrote: »

I have discussed with battlegrounds geeks like me and we all agree that primary reason to play BG is to play a mode we like, especially the DM mode. We build our characters primary around DM to challenge ourselves against players, to get high in rank and to be simply best.

Loosing the option to select Death-match mode will basically lead to either 1) abandoning the games modes we do not like or 2) playing less. I believe that neither of those two options is good for our ESO community. Hence I would like to ask to

• consider introductin DM mode selection (and other modes) back
• create a new DM system for BG.

Despite this request, I still appreciate your effort and improvement in allowing team up games.

Sincerely

WolF

@WolF_cze, is was a difficult decision for Rich and Team to move back to having a split queue for Battlegrounds.

On the QuakeCon Q&A you could tell Rich was not excited about the decision.

What you and the other posters are asking are to further fragment the queue by being able to select a battleground mode ... which will add considerably more time to players' wait time in queue.

To put it a different way, would everyone in this thread rather have (a) what we have currently -- a split queue for pre-mades and solos, or (b) one single queue for solos (no pre-mades) but the choice of battleground mode like last patch?

Because it's not possible to have both (a) and (b) because of the long wait times.

The population size will shrink if the 40-50% of players who only like one or two modes are mostly forced to queue into modes they don't like.

The population isn't a fixed-size pie distributed among each queue, it grows or shrinks depending on the queue options ZOS chooses.

Just because one mode gets a greater share of that pie (since people are forced to queue for it with random being the only option) doesn't mean the absolute number is actually higher, it could be smaller if enough people leave the population.

If the overall population shrinks a lot because of this change, the solo queue could be less populated than a hypothetical solo-only deathmatch queue. The solo queue could also be only slightly more populated than hypothetical solo-only Land Grab & Domination queues.

Taleof2Cities

WolF_cze wrote: »

eKsDee wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

eKsDee wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Maybe they jist get rid of everything but death match.


Who even asked for the other modes?

IMO there should be objective-based game modes, ideally alongside a straight deathmatch game mode, but the objective-based game modes need to encourage actually fighting other players, instead of running away and rotating objectives.

From what I've seen, most players who primarily enjoy deathmatch at least feel indifferent about crazy king and chaosball (some players even enjoy them), because both of those still funnel players towards one or two primary objectives, which basically forces them to actually fight other players.

Domination and capture-the-relic are the two problem game modes, as they encourage not fighting other players -- domination is most effectively played when you ignore fights and focus solely on rotating points, and capture-the-relic only forces fights on the relic spawns, and encourage the third team to basically score while the other two teams are fighting (which discourages fights off the relic spawns).

If it were me, I'd remove domination and capture-the-relic, leaving the other 3 in, and I'd maybe fine tune crazy king and chaosball a bit to discourage building as a tank, so that matches encourage fighting other players as much as possible.

Unfortunately, everyone is right. The PvP population in ESO is already depressingly low, and the BG population is even lower. There's likely not enough players to sustain a match making system that has separate solo and solo + group queues, on top of allowing players to select which exact game mode(s) they want to play.

A solution is probably going to require an extremely exotic match making system that can allow the random queues to pull from the same matches within the specific game mode queues (which Zenimax probably doesn't have the time, resources or experience to build), or, more likely, is going to require a sacrifice somewhere, and my vote is on axing the least enjoyed game modes.

CTR and domination are the most traditional objective-based modes in MMOs (and also FPSes) in general, which tend to work well and their popularity isn't declining. But their concept was build around 2 teams fightning each other over resepctive objectives. Introduction of 3rd team breaks this concept. But simply removing them may be a temporary workaround but definitely not a long-term solution. Tradition of these modes is too prevalent to simply ignore it.

That's all well and good when there's a population to sustain all game modes, but there just isn't. Something is going to have to give, if players want to be able to actually play the game modes they enjoy, because the only other alternative is something that I'm not sure Zenimax could implement. As I said, if we're gonna have to sacrifice something, my vote is on those two game modes.

But I am still not sure about it. If you want a specific mode you wait - waiting is a price you pay for it. If you do not want a specific mode you take random and you do not wait.

Nevertheless, I strongly disagree with the current system. Today again I have playing games when people just left at the beginning likely because they disliked the mode which was selected.

Looks like you have answered your own question, @WolF_cze.

If you wanted a Death Match option, you should have been vocal on PTS feedback six (6) weeks ago ... to keep the prior single queue with game mode option.

Here we are six weeks later (almost seven weeks), and not having game mode choice is now all of a sudden a problem??

I don't think ZOS is eager to change things back after a reluctant decision to add group queue. In other words, the ship has sailed ...

cheesefome

BrownChicken wrote: »

Everything you are arguing about here is completely meaningless. The main problem for BG now is low pop. PvP for some reason in this game is generally not attractive to most people. High entry threshold? Lags in Cyrodil? Bad rewards? I don't know ... But while for pvp there are not enough people, it is necessary to be satisfied with that is. But it is necessary to correct a problem not with trifles like a mode choice.

Why do people keep saying low population.

You guys have no idea what you're talking about. My q's on average for deathmatch were popping up within 10 mins. Dungeon queue's take me 20-1hour on average.

BG's was dealing with NO problems at all, why would you change something that is perfectly functional and active. Developers need to lay off the stuff that works and prioritize the things that doesn't. BG's was not one of them.

The fact that people think letting a computer choose the game mode you will play today is OKAY makes me wonder how that registers as a logical idea. It's absolutely stupid. I don't want anyone or any program choosing what I should eat today or what movie i want to watch or in this case, what game mode i should play. These options I should be able to choose from. It makes sense. Why would i make someone play cyrodil or play imperial city. Why don't they do that too, make the instance of open world pvp a queue, and let it be all in the same queue at random, freak it, why not. You know what, set it for gear sets too so that when i join a dungeon or an instance, it chooses my set at random pieces from my inventory, that sound like a fun idea too.

This may sound extreme people that are perfectly fine with the other modes but thats how i feel about this change. Stop forcing us to play a specific mode, especially one that I strongly dislike with such a passion that you woldn't catch me in those game modes on my happiest of days. I simply just don't enjoy it in any way shape or form, It is to casual. I want raw PvP exchanges, real pvp exchanges with good/great players who also want to have those same exchanges.

Please give us deathmatch back. Today i played about 8 games, i got deathmatch once. Awesome.

cheesefome

Recapitated wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

WolF_cze wrote: »

I have discussed with battlegrounds geeks like me and we all agree that primary reason to play BG is to play a mode we like, especially the DM mode. We build our characters primary around DM to challenge ourselves against players, to get high in rank and to be simply best.

Loosing the option to select Death-match mode will basically lead to either 1) abandoning the games modes we do not like or 2) playing less. I believe that neither of those two options is good for our ESO community. Hence I would like to ask to

• consider introductin DM mode selection (and other modes) back
• create a new DM system for BG.

Despite this request, I still appreciate your effort and improvement in allowing team up games.

Sincerely

WolF

@WolF_cze, is was a difficult decision for Rich and Team to move back to having a split queue for Battlegrounds.

On the QuakeCon Q&A you could tell Rich was not excited about the decision.

What you and the other posters are asking are to further fragment the queue by being able to select a battleground mode ... which will add considerably more time to players' wait time in queue.

To put it a different way, would everyone in this thread rather have (a) what we have currently -- a split queue for pre-mades and solos, or (b) one single queue for solos (no pre-mades) but the choice of battleground mode like last patch?

Because it's not possible to have both (a) and (b) because of the long wait times.

The population size will shrink if the 40-50% of players who only like one or two modes are mostly forced to queue into modes they don't like.

The population isn't a fixed-size pie distributed among each queue, it grows or shrinks depending on the queue options ZOS chooses.

Just because one mode gets a greater share of that pie (since people are forced to queue for it with random being the only option) doesn't mean the absolute number is actually higher, it could be smaller if enough people leave the population.

If the overall population shrinks a lot because of this change, the solo queue could be less populated than a hypothetical solo-only deathmatch queue. The solo queue could also be only slightly more populated than hypothetical solo-only Land Grab & Domination queues.

This.

Do people think that we're just going to start liking a mode just because? Whats going to happen is you are going to have a very small amount of people settle, and im going to guess that the rest will try to find another source of enjoyment which may or may not be with ESO. For me personally, I will bounce after my sub is done. Ive dealt with so much already like the lag, bugs, ect.. ect.. you name it.

The game doesn't have much eye candy going for it atm if im being perfectly honest. All these bugs are making it hard to stick around, that mixed with the lag and the constant imbalance changes. My incentive to play this game is in BG's, you take that away I no longer have a reason to continue playing. Some of us strictly play for the PvP aspect. The only times ill dive into a dg is to collect a new set I want to test and thats it.

Break cyrodil some more and leave BG's alone. Unless it's to enhance the map itself or add new maps to the pool, leave us alone. Please....

Recapitated

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

If you wanted a Death Match option, you should have been vocal on PTS feedback six (6) weeks ago ... to keep the prior single queue with game mode option.

In my defense, I was busy because I had to make sure ZOS ignored my feedback regarding proc sets.

nqvarihs

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Looks like you have answered your own question, @WolF_cze.

If you wanted a Death Match option, you should have been vocal on PTS feedback six (6) weeks ago ... to keep the prior single queue with game mode option.

Here we are six weeks later (almost seven weeks), and not having game mode choice is now all of a sudden a problem??

I don't think ZOS is eager to change things back after a reluctant decision to add group queue. In other words, the ship has sailed ...

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/546030/u28-combat-preview-developer-update

go and read the first page. there is at least 4 replies about it. you can also search the general and pts subforums.

do you even play bg's? or are you just here because you want to have an opinion about everything? i strongly suspect it's the latter, so please stay away from this thread as you have literally nothing relevant to add to the discussion.

Firstmep

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Maybe they jist get rid of everything but death match.


Who even asked for the other modes?

Maybe those that enjoy traditional objective-based small-scalle PvP that requires actual thought and well-developed strategy? You can brainlessly attack everyone on sight in Cyrodiil/IC.

LOL if you think pre-made deathmatch games are mindless, you clearly have 0 clue about high MMR bgs.

OlumoGarbag

The bare minimum they can do is give a 1/3 chance of DM. Since there is landgrab, flaggame and deathmatch the chance should be 1/3 to get either of those. Instead the chance to get dm is 1/5 for every gamemode.

precambria

PLease reintroduce deathmatch queues it's the only thing preventing this patch from being really good.

idk

Urvoth wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I think it was a good decision to not fragment the BG queue further by having everyone queue for random BGs. Being able to queue with a group of friends is much more important than being able to queue for a specific type of BG.

Exactly, @idk.

You can either have a split queue between solos/pre-mades OR a single queue by match mode. But you can't have both.

Why not? The majority of people that regularly and primarily play BGs almost exclusively played DM. That's been the case since long before the solo queue was added. ZOS could just add a DM and non DM queuing option to the regular queue and keep the solo queue random.

Because the player base active in BGs is not large enough to support both without sacrificing queue times. Also, I seriously doubt anyone has real numbers for those that queue exclusively for DM. Many get sucked into DMs to fill the matches for those that queued for them specifically.

Zos made a good decision. Being able to choose between solo queue and group queue is more significant than being able to queue for specific matches. That has been a much hotter topic since BGs were added to the game.

Why do you think that? Do you frequently play BGs? The BG regulars have been complaining in various BG guilds and discords about not having the option to play DM ever since the patch. All the pvp streamers ONLY chose to queue DM in the past, all the BG guilds only played DM, and even regular solo players were DM only. If there was an option between DM and the other game modes, DM would be the mode filling games quickly.

That would be the BG regulars you know of from them voicing their throughs in those venues. I expect it is very much like the forums that most do not say anything because they do not visit the discord and such.

Considering this thread or forums are not on fire with people claiming they want such a choice I question the claim that "The majority of people that regularly and primarily play BGs almost exclusively played DM" is based on real information. Please back up such a claim with real numbers of people who chose to queue for DMs vs all participants in BGs. Remember, total participants in DMs is meaningless that does not mean that is their choice as the GF would place random queues into DMs as well.

Just asking for verification of such a claim since that is the basis of what you are saying.

Do you regularly play BGs? It's extremely obvious that DM is the preferred mode for most people who actually play BGs regularly. Not only is this the general consensus of the BG streamers, but it's also the overwhelming opinion of the largest social BG guild on PC NA (300+ people) and all the smaller, more focused BG guilds.

Saying stuff like this makes it seem like you really aren't involved in the BG scene, which would make sense unless you're on a different platform, because no one I've talked to on PC NA has seen you in BGs before. The BG community is filled with players that basically login and mostly just play BGs. Everyone knows each other or sees the regulars around, so it's very easy to gauge the community's opinion on certain changes and taking away the queue for DM is extremely unpopular.

I have. I have not recently out of principle. As someone who would queue solo but also with friends, I ceased when the queue was solo only.

It does not seem those people feel as strongly about this as you seem to think as this thread is only on its second page in three days time. By forum standards that is pretty much a snoozer.

Edit: and that is with our conversation taking up a good part of a page.

MurderMostFoul

Splitting the cues further would probably be bad for the matchmaking population, but people clearly prefer deathmatch.

The simple solution would be to keep random mode matchmaking, but have it favor deathmatch. Code matchmaking to randomize the mode with a built-in probability of resulting in deathmatch 50% of the time and one of the other objective modes the other 50% of the time. Like this:

50% Deathmatch
12.5% domination
12.5% crazy king
12.5% capture the relic
12.5% chaosball

Urvoth

idk wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I think it was a good decision to not fragment the BG queue further by having everyone queue for random BGs. Being able to queue with a group of friends is much more important than being able to queue for a specific type of BG.

Exactly, @idk.

You can either have a split queue between solos/pre-mades OR a single queue by match mode. But you can't have both.

Why not? The majority of people that regularly and primarily play BGs almost exclusively played DM. That's been the case since long before the solo queue was added. ZOS could just add a DM and non DM queuing option to the regular queue and keep the solo queue random.

Because the player base active in BGs is not large enough to support both without sacrificing queue times. Also, I seriously doubt anyone has real numbers for those that queue exclusively for DM. Many get sucked into DMs to fill the matches for those that queued for them specifically.

Zos made a good decision. Being able to choose between solo queue and group queue is more significant than being able to queue for specific matches. That has been a much hotter topic since BGs were added to the game.

Why do you think that? Do you frequently play BGs? The BG regulars have been complaining in various BG guilds and discords about not having the option to play DM ever since the patch. All the pvp streamers ONLY chose to queue DM in the past, all the BG guilds only played DM, and even regular solo players were DM only. If there was an option between DM and the other game modes, DM would be the mode filling games quickly.

That would be the BG regulars you know of from them voicing their throughs in those venues. I expect it is very much like the forums that most do not say anything because they do not visit the discord and such.

Considering this thread or forums are not on fire with people claiming they want such a choice I question the claim that "The majority of people that regularly and primarily play BGs almost exclusively played DM" is based on real information. Please back up such a claim with real numbers of people who chose to queue for DMs vs all participants in BGs. Remember, total participants in DMs is meaningless that does not mean that is their choice as the GF would place random queues into DMs as well.

Just asking for verification of such a claim since that is the basis of what you are saying.

Do you regularly play BGs? It's extremely obvious that DM is the preferred mode for most people who actually play BGs regularly. Not only is this the general consensus of the BG streamers, but it's also the overwhelming opinion of the largest social BG guild on PC NA (300+ people) and all the smaller, more focused BG guilds.

Saying stuff like this makes it seem like you really aren't involved in the BG scene, which would make sense unless you're on a different platform, because no one I've talked to on PC NA has seen you in BGs before. The BG community is filled with players that basically login and mostly just play BGs. Everyone knows each other or sees the regulars around, so it's very easy to gauge the community's opinion on certain changes and taking away the queue for DM is extremely unpopular.

I have. I have not recently out of principle. As someone who would queue solo but also with friends, I ceased when the queue was solo only.

It does not seem those people feel as strongly about this as you seem to think as this thread is only on its second page in three days time. By forum standards that is pretty much a snoozer.

Edit: and that is with our conversation taking up a good part of a page.

Maybe because people are tired of ZOS never listening to feedback so they stopped bothering to check the forums...

idk

Urvoth wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I think it was a good decision to not fragment the BG queue further by having everyone queue for random BGs. Being able to queue with a group of friends is much more important than being able to queue for a specific type of BG.

Exactly, @idk.

You can either have a split queue between solos/pre-mades OR a single queue by match mode. But you can't have both.

Why not? The majority of people that regularly and primarily play BGs almost exclusively played DM. That's been the case since long before the solo queue was added. ZOS could just add a DM and non DM queuing option to the regular queue and keep the solo queue random.

Because the player base active in BGs is not large enough to support both without sacrificing queue times. Also, I seriously doubt anyone has real numbers for those that queue exclusively for DM. Many get sucked into DMs to fill the matches for those that queued for them specifically.

Zos made a good decision. Being able to choose between solo queue and group queue is more significant than being able to queue for specific matches. That has been a much hotter topic since BGs were added to the game.

Why do you think that? Do you frequently play BGs? The BG regulars have been complaining in various BG guilds and discords about not having the option to play DM ever since the patch. All the pvp streamers ONLY chose to queue DM in the past, all the BG guilds only played DM, and even regular solo players were DM only. If there was an option between DM and the other game modes, DM would be the mode filling games quickly.

That would be the BG regulars you know of from them voicing their throughs in those venues. I expect it is very much like the forums that most do not say anything because they do not visit the discord and such.

Considering this thread or forums are not on fire with people claiming they want such a choice I question the claim that "The majority of people that regularly and primarily play BGs almost exclusively played DM" is based on real information. Please back up such a claim with real numbers of people who chose to queue for DMs vs all participants in BGs. Remember, total participants in DMs is meaningless that does not mean that is their choice as the GF would place random queues into DMs as well.

Just asking for verification of such a claim since that is the basis of what you are saying.

Do you regularly play BGs? It's extremely obvious that DM is the preferred mode for most people who actually play BGs regularly. Not only is this the general consensus of the BG streamers, but it's also the overwhelming opinion of the largest social BG guild on PC NA (300+ people) and all the smaller, more focused BG guilds.

Saying stuff like this makes it seem like you really aren't involved in the BG scene, which would make sense unless you're on a different platform, because no one I've talked to on PC NA has seen you in BGs before. The BG community is filled with players that basically login and mostly just play BGs. Everyone knows each other or sees the regulars around, so it's very easy to gauge the community's opinion on certain changes and taking away the queue for DM is extremely unpopular.

I have. I have not recently out of principle. As someone who would queue solo but also with friends, I ceased when the queue was solo only.

It does not seem those people feel as strongly about this as you seem to think as this thread is only on its second page in three days time. By forum standards that is pretty much a snoozer.

Edit: and that is with our conversation taking up a good part of a page.

Maybe because people are tired of ZOS never listening to feedback so they stopped bothering to check the forums...

That would make sense if Zos has not just brought back the ability to queue as a group and still be able to queue solo because those were things people clamored for in the forums.
.
Seriously, Zos acknowledged several months ago they had seen the requested to bring the group queue back. Zos just brought it back. That pretty much brings into question the numbers of players you are claiming to share your opinion.

Edit: If there are such large numbers of players that share the same sentiment I expect they will express it in the forums. Until then, have a good day and enjoy the game.

Olupajmibanan

Our discussion here is most likely pointless because judging from ZoS's steps regarding BGs over past years, they have clear fixed plan (well, clear only for them to be precise). I am more than sure that re-introduction of group BGs is not an answer to community complaints but rather part of ZoS's bigger plan. Just my guess, they are now testing different solutions and how it affects population size. If mode selection isn't already included in their plans for U29, they are unlikely to add it regardless of this and similar discussions.