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Thews of the harbinger needs a cool down
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Merforum✭✭✭✭✭Joinovikova wrote: »Perhaps, if this Thews proc kills people often a different approach during combat is necessary. Nearly everyone that runs Thews has no damage output of their own. They rely on the aggressor to kill themselves. My defense against Thews is leaving the fight, they can't do anything to me, I can't do anything to them.
I for one am glad it exists because it deters instant kill builds, especially the ones that can kill multiple people without them having a chance to react at all. After the first few times of instantly dying to Vicious Death I decided I would do something about it and increased health, and armor.
Over time I adapted. Thews is just the next evolution of defense.
problem of this sets is mainly in BGs any non deathmatch is super boring when u get these opponents
I don't understand your comment, there are objectives besides just killing people in non deathmatch where someone wearing Thews can just be ignored. Even if they grab the chaos ball everyone will be killing them and they won't last long.YandereGirlfriend wrote: »@Merforum I think that it is better to preserve the spirit of the set for use in for high-leverage situations while still ensuring that one can only make use of that ability sparingly. We already have the precedent for increased Block Cost with the new Aetherial Ascension set.
The spirit of the set is to allow people to reflect damage, so tanky toons aren't just pin cushions for button smashers. And it is really good the way it is currently.
Aetherial Ascension is a complete garbage set and no one is going to use it when you can get more Armor from other sets without any insane drawback. On Mythics the negative effects seem justified. But on a 5 piece sets the benefits need to be much stronger if they will be having such negatives. Radiant Bastion is more the direction hopefully they will be going.
1vXing and killing literally every kind of build in 2 seconds is extremely toxic to any game and moving away from that is very good direction. For Profit, getting more people, and just making the game more fun. And I don't require great game immersion but having tanks that can literally tank ALL content in PVE then go to PVP and get killed in 4 seconds is broken and should have been fixed long ago.
Anything that makes this less possible is great addition to the game. If they want to 'fix' something it would be to massively reduce crit damage base value, fix anim cancelling exploits (by simply making the animation exactly the same time as the skill and unable to be cancelled OR eliminate cast time/channel skills and make them all instant with corresponding reduction of damage/effects). That way the game would still be fast paced but exploiting bugs wouldn't be rewarded.
No, good players killing bad players is how all games work, even games like fall guys which include as much randomness as possible still inevitably had players exponentially better than others. I can’t believe people complain about ani canceling and defending proc sets like thews, why not just go watch a stream if you want an experience so uninvolved, you may as well just watch someone else play? Why even have PvP if you are going to sap as much skill from it as possible with sets like these? This meta currently is dominated by the most thumbless builds in years of thews tanks and alessian wwolves, the most cheesy, boring and dead update in years.
I don't know if you realized this but people who constantly refer to themselves as 'good' players and everyone else as bad, lazy, unskilled, etc is one of the reasons this game is so toxic. An actual 'good' player would learn to adapt and overcome different play styles not continuously complain that they can't complete.
BTW if someone played PVE for years they are NOT beginner or bad, and learning PVP style of play is NOT hard. All of these comments boil down to one thing, there are a handful for PVPers who want to be able to push 4 buttons in 1 second and kill any player no matter what build they have, WHILE at the same time even if 4+ other players are hitting them with 2 buttons per second they can not be killed. Is that skill, is that fun or is that toxic?
You have to ask yourself why after all these years haven't these 'good' players used the duel function to hold events where they fight other 'good' players.That would actually be awesome. Zmax or the players themselves could have tournaments and do stuff like other games. Why has that not happened?
Over the years this game has evolved from people running around with 17-22k health and absolutely everyone being able to burst each other down, with landing a combo basically being able to kill other players, so to watch health pools effectively double with resto and bow be replaced by sword and board you would be pretty unhappy with the direction the game has headed. Performance combined with this is why a large proportion of good players have left, then to die in the sewers to a group comprised of 5 42k health wwolves and a thews tank would drive away even the best of players.
See there you go calling these people 'good' players. Here's what happened and it is obvious, a handful of people have convinced a lot of people that being a 'glass cannon' is the only proper 'SKILLED' playstyle in PVP and any other playstyle is 'bad', 'lazy', 'cheesy'. And when everyone is a glass cannon the game boils down to whoever can do their combo the fastest wins. But all the people who bought into this stupidity are just making themselves easy targets for these 'good' players.
If having different playstyles (tanky, WW, healbot, well rounded, procers) and not being able to be ganked in 2 seconds has driven 'good' players away then were they really ever good players. Or just gankers who have been the most toxic aspect of the entire game. BTW a 4 player team like tank, healer, 2 dd who can complete every dungeon in the game should NOT be able to be beat by one guy in PVP over and over (this happened to me several times with a few PVE groups I had), that is a broken system and has been for a long time.
All these Nerfing complaints are totally hypocritical too. First a lot of proc sets had a high burst so Devs appeased all the whiners by making most of the DOTs. Now everyone is whining about too many DOTs. And some say just make stat/damage/crit stackers do more damage (I usually agree to make other things better to get balance) but the execute and crit is already way too high and 'bursty' the very thing they complained about with proc sets. Why is a massive burst from crit and execute OK but a tiny burst from proc set is evil.
BTW I have read build sites and seen vids from years ago and the Heavy armor use for PVP started long ago way before proc sets were a bad thing. As many others have pointed out these proc sets are actually a good addition to be able to kill super tanky and especially almost broken WW tanks. But I say don't nerf WW just leave the poison proc sets as counter. What needs to be nerfed is massive crit and execute damage and cancel exploiting channeled/cast time abilities like snipe/sweeps.
My bow/bow necro(non proc, swamp raider/morag), that focuses on aoe bombing grps with Blastbones, acid spray and Colo was called cheesy cancer as well.
Go figure.
Apparently if you are not using sword and board and 2h on a Stam class your are cheesing, even tho playing non proc bow builds is far more challenging, than turtling behind a shield till you have ult.
As for harbinger, the main issue with the set, is that players that don't know about it kill themselves way too quick.
Definetly should be adjusted, blazing templars didn't have this much firepower in their prime, not to mention between meditate and shield ult it's easier to permablock than ever.
I agree with you that anything that kills someone, someone is gonna call 'cheesy cancer'. But having distant is one of the biggest benefits in PVP and having damage skills that are literally equal to melee damage is kind of ridiculous. Bow damage should be reduced the farther away you are, which forces you to get closer IMO.
What I hate most about battle grounds especially is bow people who just stand back a max distance, have me beat up a guy like 90% of the damage then do one light attack to finish him off and get massive points/kill in deathmatch. And although I don't agree that proc sets are bad in general I do agree that the way the damage ticks happen, ranged players get massive kill numbers just by having last tick of damage on someone.
All of my 4000+ scores in deathmatch have been me just standing on high ground and picking off everyone in low health. And when anyone comes up to attack me I magnum shot them off the platform, it doesn't require proc sets at all just requires the right situation and lots of melee dudes piling up. But I won't denigrate the play style, just think the scoring in deathmatch should give the person who in literally in battle with someone, being hit by them, doing 90% of damage on them to get equal amount of points, rather than final kill get most points.
Don't get me wrong though, even melee people are stealing kills right and left in battlegrounds, I can't tell you how many times I have 30+ assists and less kills than people who haven't been killed once because they don't engage anyone. Obviously I could sit here and say that anyone who doesn't get in the mix and go toe to toe with people and actually try fight them is being a wimp, chessy or whatever, like gankers say about everyone else, I actually enjoy many different playstyles. I will say though that the ganker style shouldn't be so rewarded simply because it is less dangerous than most other playstyles.
You can't really stay in max range with acid spray ^^.
If I was using double procs from max range sure.
Arrow spray definetly has very generous scaling I'll admit.
I play melee on a lot of classes, and it has its advantages and disadvantages too, for sure.
As for the topic of this thread, harbinger is really only an issue of you don't know about it.
Harbinger necros can be brought down eventually, but ofc it's not ideal.
I tend to just ignore them.
If they sit on a flag just get 1 more person from your team and you'll get the flag and there is nothing the harbinger user can do by themselves if they're not attacked.
Still the set could be reworked as its very powerful aganist new/bad players.
Yeah I tried Thews and found that it is not effective in too many situations to be worth wearing. But it is totally amazing against jabs/sweeps, surprise attack, melee spammers and a couple of other situations. But I think it would be a good set for people just starting PVP to get ganked less and have the chance to learn how to play PVP. It is definitely not overpowered at all cause it is so niche, even if it was 10%. There's another new set that reflects damage, hope they have more of these options in future.0 -
JayKwellen✭✭✭✭✭learned analytics in military intelligence and worked 30 years in analysis and maybe I am just putting together the bits of info I have seen, read, over the years.
If we're gonna go down this road, then I can just as easily say that my many years working in critical care medicine has shown me the exact opposite - that hands on experience is often more important than just didactic learning. The hundreds of new interns and residents I've seen come and go are, quite literally, living examples of how just "knowing something" often means precious little until you know what to outside of a textbook, and the only way that knowledge comes is from doing. It's why the phrase "you don't know what you don't know" is so popular in medicine regarding new physicians.The analogy of how long someone has played a certain aspect of a game only pertains to their ability to PLAY it, NOT to analyze facts related to it and pontificate on a forum. But I wouldn't expect everyone to comprehend that simple fact.
And this right here is the perfect example of that adage brought to life.Xbox NA - JaeKwellen
AD PvP
Trying to main a magcro. This is awful.2 -
Merforum✭✭✭✭✭JayKwellen wrote: »learned analytics in military intelligence and worked 30 years in analysis and maybe I am just putting together the bits of info I have seen, read, over the years.
If we're gonna go down this road, then I can just as easily say that my many years working in critical care medicine has shown me the exact opposite - that hands on experience is often more important than just didactic learning. The hundreds of new interns and residents I've seen come and go are, quite literally, living examples of how just "knowing something" often means precious little until you know what to outside of a textbook, and the only way that knowledge comes is from doing. It's why the phrase "you don't know what you don't know" is so popular in medicine regarding new physicians.The analogy of how long someone has played a certain aspect of a game only pertains to their ability to PLAY it, NOT to analyze facts related to it and pontificate on a forum. But I wouldn't expect everyone to comprehend that simple fact.
And this right here is the perfect example of that adage brought to life.
Yes I've only played BG 5-13 time a day for 50+ days so obviously I wouldn't expect anyone to group up with to do PVP and expect much. However PLAYING the game and watching 100s hours of vids and reading about it for years in order to have a simple opinion on a simple forum are 2 completely different things. The fact that you double down on this distraction in a transparent attempt to discredit me without addressing any point I made is very telling. I think I'll take a break from forum as insults and personal attacks is a bit over the top for me.0 -
Recapitated✭✭✭✭Starlight_Whisper wrote: »
You can slot Bahraha and caltrops and run past most mobs. NMG and Hunding's with class skills, Pierce Armor and Heroic Slash as spammable will be fine against quest bosses.Edited by Recapitated on October 25, 2020 1:35AM0 -
likecats✭✭✭✭✭
All these Nerfing complaints are totally hypocritical too. First a lot of proc sets had a high burst so Devs appeased all the whiners by making most of the DOTs. Now everyone is whining about too many DOTs. And some say just make stat/damage/crit stackers do more damage (I usually agree to make other things better to get balance) but the execute and crit is already way too high and 'bursty' the very thing they complained about with proc sets. Why is a massive burst from crit and execute OK but a tiny burst from proc set is evil.
Because proc sets do not scale with stats, meaning you can get similar burst in heavy armor with 30k+ health, whereas high burst without proc sets require you to give up defense.
I have a magblade that runs two light armor sets with slimecraw, and I can dish decent damage but die the instant I stop dodge-rolling/cloaking.
I recently leveled a stam warden, running crimson twilight, malubeth/grothdarr, and eternal vigor, master dual wield, all in heavy armor (and this toon is not even maxed out yet), and its so much easier to play thanks to proc sets not scaling with the lack of stats in heavy armor. I have very good damage as well as insanely good defense which is ridiculous in an MMO.
Not whining, I've already adapted to the new meta and I plan on playing procset stamden as my new main from now on. But I do hope you understand why proc sets as they exist in this game are highly problematic.
Make proc sets scale with ALL stats like everything else and the problem will go away itself. That way, stacking procsets with heavy armor would naturally reduce your damage potential. As they exist now, all proc sets do is encourage everyone to use multiple proc sets on super tanky characters.Edited by likecats on October 25, 2020 5:49PM3
