Cyrodiil Test 5 - Big Success?

techyeshic

Good ball groups run quite well with 12. There was an escalation in size by the bad ones so I imagine that the purge and radiating regen spam is still a big culprit and just eased that its not hitting 24 playersj.

We have another test next week but I am not sure what the point is to just have ramping costs when above 6 players. Why not just do group size of 6?

And I know the guild I am in has events with huge players turning out and how that would impact, but I'd like to see the end result be groups still 24, but broken down and assigned to teams of 6 that the crown can arrange who then get the buffs and heals. Maybe different color chevrons to identify.

NeillMcAttack

zvavi wrote: »

synnerman wrote: »

Nope performance was still laggy in large fights in PC/EU and still only the 1st test that made the difference out of all the tests so far.

Nobody was in the first test...

On PC/EU every evening has two locked campaigns!

NeillMcAttack

techyeshic wrote: »

Good ball groups run quite well with 12. There was an escalation in size by the bad ones so I imagine that the purge and radiating regen spam is still a big culprit and just eased that its not hitting 24 playersj.

We have another test next week but I am not sure what the point is to just have ramping costs when above 6 players. Why not just do group size of 6?

And I know the guild I am in has events with huge players turning out and how that would impact, but I'd like to see the end result be groups still 24, but broken down and assigned to teams of 6 that the crown can arrange who then get the buffs and heals. Maybe different color chevrons to identify.

Agreed, I’d like to see the current test with a group size of only 6 also.

zaria

Qbiken wrote: »

The limitations of group size is absolutely amazing and is one of the better things ZOS has done for PvP since launch. Hopefully this test will become permanent. For me the performance improvement during primetime was noticeably better yesterday than any of the other tests.

Note that unlike the other changes this will have none to minimal impact outside Cyrodil. None in dungeons and trials and its no reason to remove healing out of group overland.

Chilly-McFreeze

red_emu wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

MincVinyl wrote: »

dinokstrunz wrote: »

From my experience today lag still occurred when the organised ball groups showed up or large three way faction fights but it wasn't anywhere near as horrific as the previous test weeks, I will probably continue to monitor over the coming days. I'm hopeful the next week or two will be promising.

We will still see lag occur from groups aoe hitting each other during this test(what zos probably thought was the issue originally). For sure 50 allies keeping buffs/hots/smarthealing on each other without these calcs going away by any means was going to be the bulk of the lag. Think enemy dots/effects can be purged off, but ally hots/effects will remain and keep stacking.

What is nice is how this is probably the least intrusive out of any of the tests and seems to make a massive difference.

---

I hope zos can take ideas for other ways to fix the 50v50 aoe fights causing lag though. They need to honestly find ways to spread combat out or limit how many calculations players can output on enemies without ruining aoe.

Spreading combat out would be as simple as making the resources worth more in keep seiges. My concept would be to make them the rez points while a keep is flagged. If you die within keep/res range you could rez at an owned resource every 5 mins. This goes for defender and attacker. FCs would no longer be able to be placed within keep range on either side. Ap for res take/def are worth exceedingly more while X number of seige is up on both def/atk side.

The one thing I wish they brought back from way back was to make over time effects not stack from multiple sources(through battlespirit). This would still allow for aoes to be unchanged, keeping the integrity of the combat system whole. At the same time this keeps dots viable in small fights due to higher class diversity. However it will prevent persistent calculations from lingering on enemy players. Future proc/dot metas could be avoided aswell like how the sloads/soul meta would have never happened. Catapults(beyond the most calculation dense seige there is) wouldn't be spammed everywhere at breaches.

aside from the combat mechanics on a tech level that they are messing with now, Cyro needs some changes on a strategic level.

for instance the concept of de throne is that two factions will de throne the third, this entails 3 factions fighting at a single keep.

this is by design.

that design needs to change, if the game cannot handle it, dont encourage it. there are other systems in place in Cyro that just are or promote bad gameplay, and these are things ZOS needs to change.

I think a good idea would be to make the keeps way harder to take and scale the guards/gates/walls to the number of enemy players near the keep.

Currently you can take a keep within 4-5 minutes and once you start the chain of capturing a keep after keep, players are naturally drawn to follow in whichever direction the keeps are flipping. If it was harder to zerg a keep, rather than apply some strategy, I think people might spread out more?

How would that make a difference? Neither can you force your alliance members to stay away nor will a few NPCs make a difference. More sieges = faster captures, strong NPCs or not. They would get face rolled by numbers of players anyway.

SpiderKnight

I felt a lot more lag during this test than any of the tests so far.

relentless_turnip

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

synnerman wrote: »

Nope performance was still laggy in large fights in PC/EU and still only the 1st test that made the difference out of all the tests so far.

Nobody was in the first test...

On PC/EU every evening has two locked campaigns!

I can attest to this I played the week 1 tests and both campaigns were locked every night. I main ravenwatch 👍

Ninrod86

Why in the name of all daerdra e Aedra gods name they still didint remove that lame ass set that procs when someone dies and does HUDGE aoe dmg? The same for the bomb skill on mage guild line.

CaffeinatedMayhem

I found lag pretty tolerable last night as well. Was there lag? Yes. Was it as bad? NO.

Thanks for listening devs. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6882211/#Comment_6882211

nk125x

Nop All the bad stuff is still there

Health desyncs, skills not firing......

Wing

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

Agalloch wrote: »

MKintr wrote: »

Maybe there was no visible lag, but attacks still did not fire very often.
Gameplay was a mess with mini-groups all over the map, small sieges that took forever and so on. This test only favours discord voice chat groups that can coordinate the same group sizes as before, while all others are left behind. I found gameplay the worst with this test. Large groups with players that contribute their skills and gear to the whole are the core of cyrodiil PvP.

This.

Cyrodiil PVP is about large battles...and was the core of ESO advertising before launch.

Cyrodiil was intented to be like : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfeMROJhXSY

And yes, at start we had huge pvp battles .. but . cut after "lighting patch".

ZOS give our Cyrodiil PVP back!

Thanks!

just for clarity.

the "lighting" aspect of the patch is not what caused the lag.

that same patch more data was moved server side rather then client side (due to hacking and exploits, anyone remember the gold mat duplication back at launch, and everyone thought the economy would never recover?) this caused the server to be pinged more for combat information rather then leaving it in and trusting the client, the net result being more packets, and more lag.

so yeah, blame the exploiters XD

and even then it didnt stop, cheat engine was used by many (even though lots of PvP'ers CLAIMED that people were just bad and needed to get good, anyone remember blinxy btw?)

this led to one weekend, i feel like it was around ZOS Christmas break (or some holiday) a couple players exploited the crap out of PvP, flying around keeps, spamming meteor ultimate's, making it clear that YES there were exploits and YES people could use them.

they got banned, and ZOS claimed they cracked down on cheats.

however it was often claimed you could still use cheat engine and various other hacks as long as you kept values within a reasonable level, like regen values and damage numbers.


so PvP in this game has lost all trust from many vet players, hard to believe everything is legit and people are all playing fair when it so clearly did exist.

I have seen a site that still sells ESO cheat software. I forwarded I reported, but never heard anything back.

thats because ZOS's policy is putting their fingers in their ears and going "LALALALALALA exploits dont exist LALALALA"

x48rph

nk125x wrote: »

Nop All the bad stuff is still there

Health desyncs, skills not firing......

Same. Couldn't tell the difference at all

Flaaklypa

Its waaaaaay better than it usually is! I can definitely feel the difference

Gariele

Yesterday was by far one of the best Cyro experiences I have had in a long time. Skills worked, stun lock wasn’t as bad and besides my own horrible playing, it was an enjoyable time. If ZOS can do this and bust up ball groups we might finally have a decent PvP experience.

Iselin

So you can't heal someone not in your group about to die? You just watch it happen?

Wing

Iselin wrote: »

So you can't heal someone not in your group about to die? You just watch it happen?

pretty much, though iirc ground placed healing still works like ritual, grand healing, etc.

IAmIcehouse

Ravenwatch was pretty bad during primetime but there were also 3 ballgroups running simultaneously, likely because its the first day they can run again. In Ravenwatch we usually only see at most two fighting at the same time.

Swordancer

Yesterday was Monday, people are working, wait for the weekend and Im sure lags will be the same as usuall. None of their changes bring any positive effects. Even a 1/10 of the lag we experience at ESO in Cyro is too much for online PvP game. PvP require precision to feel the spirit of the e-sport and competition. Lags in ESO completely disqualify PvP to be fair in that game. Ping could be normal but servers are failing during processing players actions. It seems they can't afford better performance due to budget limits and there is no update that can fix that if they won't spend more money on servers, otherwise they would have fixed it long time ago.

They may pretend they are doing something, but not everyone can be fooled.

The engine is also archaic looking at the behavior of physics.

Rungar

i still think they need to get rid of groups altogether and change the functionality of hots to 1 per character.

novemberhhh

seriously the lag was so improved i literally asked myself if this was eso... can we plz keep these changes permanently?

relentless_turnip

So my assumption is that those reporting good performance are PC NA? During the last midyear PC NA reported great performance whilst it was still pretty terrible on PC EU.

I would love this to be the solution as it's pretty low impact, but I imagine it will take a combination of measures to make PC EU work...

Midyear mayhem at the begining of the year worked beautifully on all platforms, but quickly became the worst ever with the release of harrowstorm.

HeroOfNone

I've noticed performance has been better when I play on locked campaigns lately. I normally play after primetime hours when I would still lag like crazy when some ball group came in and pings suddenly spiked. This could be that those ball groups refused to play or simply their methods were ineffective with these changes. Either way its seemed more stable.

Wing wrote: »

Agalloch wrote: »

MKintr wrote: »

Maybe there was no visible lag, but attacks still did not fire very often.
Gameplay was a mess with mini-groups all over the map, small sieges that took forever and so on. This test only favours discord voice chat groups that can coordinate the same group sizes as before, while all others are left behind. I found gameplay the worst with this test. Large groups with players that contribute their skills and gear to the whole are the core of cyrodiil PvP.

This.

Cyrodiil PVP is about large battles...and was the core of ESO advertising before launch.

Cyrodiil was intented to be like : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfeMROJhXSY

And yes, at start we had huge pvp battles .. but . cut after "lighting patch".

ZOS give our Cyrodiil PVP back!

Thanks!

just for clarity.

the "lighting" aspect of the patch is not what caused the lag.

that same patch more data was moved server side rather then client side (due to hacking and exploits, anyone remember the gold mat duplication back at launch, and everyone thought the economy would never recover?) this caused the server to be pinged more for combat information rather then leaving it in and trusting the client, the net result being more packets, and more lag.

so yeah, blame the exploiters XD

and even then it didnt stop, cheat engine was used by many (even though lots of PvP'ers CLAIMED that people were just bad and needed to get good, anyone remember blinxy btw?)

this led to one weekend, i feel like it was around ZOS Christmas break (or some holiday) a couple players exploited the crap out of PvP, flying around keeps, spamming meteor ultimate's, making it clear that YES there were exploits and YES people could use them.

they got banned, and ZOS claimed they cracked down on cheats.

however it was often claimed you could still use cheat engine and various other hacks as long as you kept values within a reasonable level, like regen values and damage numbers.


so PvP in this game has lost all trust from many vet players, hard to believe everything is legit and people are all playing fair when it so clearly did exist.

This is pretty accurate in the way changing things from client to server side seems to have added lag. I would love to see some things shift back to client side, but I'm sure that would lead to more cheating and exploiting.

There is more anti-cheat "checks" now and I think ZOS is checking cheats through stats rather than real-time. Most people i hear "cheating" are rarely dealt with that night but are gone the day after for a week to a month. ZOS isn't open with their ban record though so you never know unless you know someone willing to admit it.

This could change if the community agreed to an aggressive anti-cheat engine installed on their PC. With something that could scan the kernel and memory for cheat tools (to shutdown things like cheat engine) more functions could be shifted client-side again and give better responsiveness. A lot of players were upset when doom eternal did this though, especially since it wasn't announced ahead of time, and felt it was too invasive.

etchedpixels

HeroOfNone wrote: »

This could change if the community agreed to an aggressive anti-cheat engine installed on their PC. With something that could scan the kernel and memory for cheat tools (to shutdown things like cheat engine) more functions could be shifted client-side again and give better responsiveness. A lot of players were upset when doom eternal did this though, especially since it wasn't announced ahead of time, and felt it was too invasive.

Anti-cheat engines are notoriously buggy and insecure and the more secure the OS gets the more they don't work. On its own it would suck, coupled with the current week plus to process a ticket for every misdetect and ban it would IMHO be a complete disaster. Nor will it work that well - anything which is not possible to do can be detected server side, anything that is valid you don't have a chance of detecting because you can put the cheat in a USB interface and software can't detect it.

We've played this game running minecraft servers and the big wins have always been server side detection of cheaters.

Besides which - for good or bad, the reason for moving stuff server side keeps being Stadia

If you want anti-cheat play on console 8)

Ostonoha

Server did run amazing even during heavy zerg fights. If it ran like that every day/night it would be great. But it was only one day. See how the rest of the week goes.

method__01

PC EU alliance locked campaign is unplayable atm

wolfie1.0.

I'm glad that some people find it better but to be honest lag and random loading screens and syncs and disconnects Jane remained constant for me throughout the testing period. It's still bad even with the tests.

ne.ga.kurai_ESO

PC NA | Ravenwatch noCP | Last night 20:00 - 24:00 hrs

Latency was 100-130 the entire time. Gigabit fiber internet, sub 10ms latency speedtest. 9900k, 2080Ti.

Lag was so bad that abilities were not working, weapon swap was basically disabled. I was watching people trying to hit me and then I was transported back in time probably 15-30 seconds like an Undo alt. This happened three times in a keep fight.

Anytime I got near the Blue 40 person zerg and the 12 man Red farming group at the same time the game just melted. This happened to all three of us that were grouped, and some random from /zone messaged me with the same.

Crash427

Things were weird tonite. There were big fights where the game felt fixed and everything was relatively good. Then later big fights with a lot of thr same people where is was as bad as ever.

As much as people want a simple fix, this alone isn't it.

Xuhora

PC EU Ravenwatch last night from 19:00 till 22.00

status: unplayable, one of the worst performances ive ever had to witness sadly....

impressions

Gameplay: first 2 hours i was doing the LFG as a healer, got into a group fairly quick, but the gameplay is totaly different and not enjoyable. first of there is more chaos than usual, because there are 2 times the group than under normal conditions. this makes communications pretty awful, since between the LFG messages there are now twice as mach UA and US reports from players.

Performance: we found us between AD and EP Ballgroups, while beeing in a zerg of multiple groups as well. Skilldelay up to 5 seconds, no hit registration, no dodgerolls, players porting arround, rubberbanding you name it, it was there.
then we were attacking a keep with multiple groups of our alliance, while AD was defing and EP was ballgrouping on the walls to wait for the doors to be opened by us. same issues, everything that could be bad was bad performance wise.

impressions: this test makes playing a healer the worst it has been during this testphase (even test 1 and 2 felt better) i have had to watch so many players die besides me, while i could not, for the love of god, keep track on where my actual group is. besides that, during the battle 5 of our group left, so i stood there, in sheer usefullness since i could literally do nothing, while people left an right dying in oil and catapults and what not.

question: on the second part of the cyrodill evening i grouped up with 2 friends of mine while flipping ressources. performance felt bad generally, more so when a ballgroup of the other faction ran by. at least for two of us. one group member was having no issues, saying this has been the best performance there has ever been. how? how can this differ in a group so badly? could not be his internet connection, because his is far worse than mine. could not be his setup, because we are running pretty much the same specs. so whats the issue here?

edit for typos

Unfadingsilence

Ok... I love this game but there are still ALOT of things that need to get fixed, I was hearing nothing but great things when I was at work today and could not wait to jump online and see how it looked...

https://youtu.be/bDMarLYs600

Also for future reference my current setup

CPU
Intel Core i9-9900K 8-Core 3.6 GHz

Graphics
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 TI - MSI AERO 11G

Motherboard
MSI MPG Z390 GAMING EDGE AC

RAM
Team T-FORCE Delta RGB 3000MHz (max speed) 64GB (4X16GB)

CPU Cooler
NZXT Kraken X63

Storage
Western Digital Black SN750 NVMe M.2 2280 SSD 1.0 TB
Seagate Barracuda 4.0 TB

Power Supply
Gigabyte G750H 750W GOLD

Fiber internet 1gig upload and 1gig download speeds no wifi hooked up when gaming and nothing else running on internet as well