LOL - The nerfs have begun - Ring of the Pale Order the new Thrassian Stranglers

nk125x

Ring of the Pale Order: This set now has a maximum heal of 3750 before bonuses, to help reduce its healing potential in PvE.

Banana

I play solo. So I'll still give it a go

hakan

reeee pve causes pvp nerfs.

ganzaeso

Can't be a nerf it is still on PTS

ManDraKE

So we need PvErs to complain for mythic *** to get nerfed? Ok, i'm paying 100k gold to each pver that complains about malacath lol, send me DM.

Strider__Roshin

It's still solid.

ankeor

People can do over 100k dps in pve. It means 15k heal.
Even if you do 30k dps it is 4.5k heal.
Per second.
With no healer.

Don't you think it is overpowered in PvE as exacly how they say.
It can completely remove healers from PvE.
I think it is a fair change and it is still very strong.
It is max 3750 before buffs like mending and vitality buffs.

I am sorry but you complain for sake of complaining.
You did not even think if it is healthy change or not.
About Thrassian they drop the ball very bad.
But this change is not comparable to Thrassian.

And in PvP you won't have very high dps as in PvE anyway so it doesn't affect PvP much

ne.ga.kurai_ESO

Okay we can add Battle Spirit to PvE then.

Firstmep

ankeor wrote: »

People can do over 100k dps in pve. It means 15k heal.
Even if you do 30k dps it is 4.5k heal.
Per second.
With no healer.

Don't you think it is overpowered in PvE as exacly how they say.
It can completely remove healers from PvE.
I think it is a fair change and it is still very strong.
It is max 3750 before buffs like mending and vitality buffs.

I am sorry but you complain for sake of complaining.
You did not even think if it is healthy change or not.
About Thrassian they drop the ball very bad.
But this change is not comparable to Thrassian.

And in PvP you won't have very high dps as in PvE anyway so it doesn't affect PvP much

To be fair theres no cooldown on the heal, so its not like its going to be 3.8k max per second.

West93

This change won't effect pvp that much, still good for solo pvp.

How many time we got anything that's good specifically for solo pvp? I think never.

mb10

No change at all in PVP so not a nerf for me

dazee

I mean half of these mythics have built in drawbacks that make the benefit dubious at best. I can think of only 1 or 2 I'd ever consider using in pve or pvp.

Celestro

Firstmep wrote: »

ankeor wrote: »

People can do over 100k dps in pve. It means 15k heal.
Even if you do 30k dps it is 4.5k heal.
Per second.
With no healer.

Don't you think it is overpowered in PvE as exacly how they say.
It can completely remove healers from PvE.
I think it is a fair change and it is still very strong.
It is max 3750 before buffs like mending and vitality buffs.

I am sorry but you complain for sake of complaining.
You did not even think if it is healthy change or not.
About Thrassian they drop the ball very bad.
But this change is not comparable to Thrassian.

And in PvP you won't have very high dps as in PvE anyway so it doesn't affect PvP much

To be fair theres no cooldown on the heal, so its not like its going to be 3.8k max per second.

That was my take on the change. They specified performing an attack that deals 25k damage in PvP would give the maximum 3750 heal. So its a maximum of 3750 per attack, so DoTs have a separate chance to provide more, separate healing. And with it not having a cooldown still like Critical Surge, which gives 3300 healing before bonuses, its still pretty solid.

If I'm interpreting the change correctly that is as the wording seems iffy.

Apox

i think you REALLY dont understand how little this nerf means it's still gonna be an insane heal. theres no cooldown on the heal.

jaws343

3750 healing potential per damage tick. This is still very strong.

Also, agreeing that this is not a nerf, not really. This is an adjustment to a testing item. It wouldn't be a nerf until it actually went live.

Waffennacht

They didnt pwn it, im happy

mikey_reach

Its in a more balanced state now while being good in both pve or pvp. Im happy with it on both side im sure people will still complain though.

Atherakhia

I agree with everyone else. This change is really inconsequential. Even the 100k DPS example above is misleading. This ring has no cooldown which means every single attack you make that hits for 25k and below is going to heal you for 15%. Only attacks above 25k are going to be limited. The 100k parse example above, is still likely going to heal you for the full 15k a second because that 100k parse isn't a single skill hitting once every second. It's half a dozen or more combined to get 100k.

This ring is still insanely powerful and will (hopefully) continue to be tuned down as the PTS progresses.

Merforum

It's still good for most content, although in another thread someone said maybe it would be better to reduce bonus based on how many people are in group. Maybe by 1% so solo would still get full 15%, 4 man group get 11%, trials no one would want to use it. BTW keep on mind it has a huge disadvantage of not being healed by anyone else.

bharathitman

If they hadn't nerfed it, then it would have replaced the healers in most trials. Healers would just be asked to play as a DD with a debuff set. Glad they realized how OP it could have been decent players and decided to nerf it before it hit live. Thrassian was a mistake and it shouldn't have lasted a whole patch.

IMO the number should be lowered to 2.5k per second, 3750 is still a bit too much

Atherakhia

Merforum wrote: »

It's still good for most content, although in another thread someone said maybe it would be better to reduce bonus based on how many people are in group. Maybe by 1% so solo would still get full 15%, 4 man group get 11%, trials no one would want to use it. BTW keep on mind it has a huge disadvantage of not being healed by anyone else.

That really doesn't solve anything because this would still make 4 man content irrelevant and healerless (which it mostly already is anyway).

Really, the only way I could see this ring being balanced is if they made it work more like the Templar skill.

When you deal damage you put a debuff on the target that lasts for X seconds. It will then heal you for Y% of the damage you did over those X seconds. The debuff could only occur once every Z seconds. Maximum heal of XX% of your total health. As long as these values are reasonably short (3 second debuff, 6 second cooldown which implies a 3 second window, healing you for 25% of damage done up to a maximum of 50% of your maximum health) it would still be used but much less attractive in groups where a player could legitimately be dead in 3 seconds.

But as is, I think it would be interesting. It would certainly make malacath a less obvious choice for nearly every player in existence for PvP which would perhaps lessen the amount of people running proc sets in triplicate.

YandereGirlfriend

I sincerely hope that that the capped value is for an individual tick of damage and not the maximum allowable heal per GCD.

Knowing ZOS, it could just be ambiguous language and their assumption that casual players are only using one attack per second.

The former change is acceptable but the latter change is Full Thrassians dumpster mode.

Atherakhia

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I sincerely hope that that the capped value is for an individual tick of damage and not the maximum allowable heal per GCD.

Knowing ZOS, it could just be ambiguous language and their assumption that casual players are only using one attack per second.

The former change is acceptable but the latter change is Full Thrassians dumpster mode.

I really don't think they can put some kind of cooldown on it or limit the damage to one source a second. This would make it incredibly fickle for DOT builds and such. If this thing could only heal once a second for example, with my luck I'd heal for 150hp from a 1k dot tick while my 10k ult went ignored.

Vevvev

If you read the developer note you'll only hit the cap if a single point of damage does 25k damage. All your DoTs, enchantments, light attacks, and other forms of damage will be contributing to some constant healing that'll never hit that number.

The Ring will still be fine, but it does bump into my 33k+ Blood for Blood attack. Ah well, I'll still get more health back than I spent!!!

jaws343

Atherakhia wrote: »

Merforum wrote: »

It's still good for most content, although in another thread someone said maybe it would be better to reduce bonus based on how many people are in group. Maybe by 1% so solo would still get full 15%, 4 man group get 11%, trials no one would want to use it. BTW keep on mind it has a huge disadvantage of not being healed by anyone else.

That really doesn't solve anything because this would still make 4 man content irrelevant and healerless (which it mostly already is anyway).

Really, the only way I could see this ring being balanced is if they made it work more like the Templar skill.

When you deal damage you put a debuff on the target that lasts for X seconds. It will then heal you for Y% of the damage you did over those X seconds. The debuff could only occur once every Z seconds. Maximum heal of XX% of your total health. As long as these values are reasonably short (3 second debuff, 6 second cooldown which implies a 3 second window, healing you for 25% of damage done up to a maximum of 50% of your maximum health) it would still be used but much less attractive in groups where a player could legitimately be dead in 3 seconds.

But as is, I think it would be interesting. It would certainly make malacath a less obvious choice for nearly every player in existence for PvP which would perhaps lessen the amount of people running proc sets in triplicate.

This ring is hardly going to contribute to the reason for healers being irrelevant in 4 man content. The dungeon design from DLC dungeons for the past few years, with mostly one shot mechanics, and fights that are easier the more mechanics you can DPS through, are the reason for that. As long as the biggest threats in newer dungeons are enemies with one-shot mechanics, healers really serve no purpose in them anymore.
And the easier difficulty of the original dungeons skew things a bit too. Those dungeons are easy, and again, 3 DPS provide more opportunities to burn past mechanics and a good self sufficient tank, and a healer over healing you is entirely unnecessary.

And all of that can be done in crafted gear too. The ring just makes it easier, but doesn't really make it any more of a problem.

katorga

Vevvev wrote: »

If you read the developer note you'll only hit the cap if a single point of damage does 25k damage. All your DoTs, enchantments, light attacks, and other forms of damage will be contributing to some constant healing that'll never hit that number.

The Ring will still be fine, but it does bump into my 33k+ Blood for Blood attack. Ah well, I'll still get more health back than I spent!!!

So they did not solve the only issue that made it unbalanced. Glorius.

Aznarb

nk125x wrote: »

Ring of the Pale Order: This set now has a maximum heal of 3750 before bonuses, to help reduce its healing potential in PvE.

Find the guy who want abuse of OP thing.

YandereGirlfriend

@Atherakhia I was thinking more along the lines of summing 15% of your total damage done per GCD but capping the max value of the heal at 3750 (e.g. so you only get credit for 25k DPS, which is probably what ZOS benchmarks casual players at, and anything above that is wasted). No cooldowns or caps on the number of damage sources needed for that.

@Vevvev I definitely did read the comments but I am all too aware that ZOS is frequently... imprecise... with their language, especially when it comes to more complex game mechanics and systems interactions. I'm also wary because they haven't shown themselves to be particularly capable of delivering a modest, nuanced nerf in quite some time. So I'll be eagerly awaiting testing confirmation before getting my hopes up that this item will survive the PTS in a usable condition.

hexentb16_ESO

I couldn't care less if something is OP in PVE. Its only pvp balancing that I care about.

Xebov

The heal effect has no cooldown so you can expect it to heal for every piece of damage done. What this change does is only capping the heal on heavy hits.

ankeor wrote: »

It can completely remove healers from PvE.

No it cant. The problem is that most players seem to only look at this ring from a DD perspective while ignoring Tanks and Mechanics completely.
The ring will only heal you as long as you are able to do continuous damage and is only effective if your DPS is high enought. This means that Tanks for example cant use it.
The thing is this:
For Overland Content its a nice to have, but doesnt change anything.
For vanilla Dungeons it wont change anything because no heal runs are already normal there.
For DLC Dungeons you face mechanics and immunities, which makes the use of the ring harder. Furthermore the Tank has to be able to survive and thats usually the issue with no heal runs.
For Trials you have the same issue as with DLC Dungeons.

Some content will have the ring as nice to have but not needed and the remaining content will have it as useless.

Elvenheart

It seems like it will mostly be nice for soloing, especially vampires.