Dragonknight and Templar are dead and ignored

Berchelous

Are these classes replaced by necromancer and warden?

Necromancer got nearly all tankiness of dragonknight + aoe major defile skill + purge + sustain + damage mitigation that does not count as minor protection ?

And we got warden. Templars have been butchered to make wardens better option. All templars got now is poor old aoe cleanse. Jabs skill sucks and if the aoe changes go live this class will be joke to play.

Both classes' passives suck too and feel old compared to warden's and necro's.

What do you think?

Olupajmibanan

Always specify if you talk about PvE or PvP and Stamina or Magicka. Please, add this specification to the title as well.

Magicka DKs are far from dead in PvE and so are magplars and stamplars.

Koubo

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Magicka DKs are far from dead in PvE and so are magplars and stamplars.

Cant speak for DK, but heard sustain is TRASH. So is MagPlar's. Sustain is trash and both are heavy melee dependant for optimal DPS, which isn't the purpose of a MagDD's group. (Range, Range, Range...)
Stamplar's sustain (health) is just poor for both PvE and PvP. Templars (both) bring nothing to the table in group content anymore beside DPS. Especially now with Minor Breach/Fracture added to S&B skill line. Templars are playable in PvE (wont deny that) but not recommended for hard end content (for obvious reason) and they are trash bottom in PvP. As i said, cant really speak for DK as i dont have one.

Vajrak

Berchelous wrote: »

Are these classes replaced by necromancer and warden?
All templars got now is poor old aoe cleanse.
What do you think?

Templar has SELF cleanse; AoE via Synergy. ALL Classes have AoE Cleanse via Alliance War skill: Purge.

You can't make a good argument if you have the basic facts wrong to begin with.

Starlight_Whisper

Okay first...I cheering inside as Templars get pushed down! Like you aren't wrong...but now let me sin against myself and explain your point better.

So a pivot point for stamplar and and ever popular templar healer was power of light. This is a very crucial min and max point for them. So I can under why other methods exist to provide it, but does leave them lacking compared my favorite sorc healer with similar penetration bonus. I suppose they still have ritual and largest aoe heal but synergy from that is so random to players... reminds me of negate.I would definitely complain about major main vs that monster set... though my sorc looks at earthgore like that too.

Still templar has also a balance of class unquieness with speed, minor breech ( idk you might care with new staff). Meaning they are only class to pull off minor breech aoe with speed siphon. Also only other is nightblade and their range is so babyish compared to Templar.

Now if min and maxing you definitely aren't wrong. It's warden and nerco Healers. Especially wardens are too godly.


Okay now for tanks. Like no way, nerco tanks well are super fun are super hard to use Along with major aoe problems. Nothing changed for tanks though possiblity of doing cool things with frost.


Now dk support is doing well as hybrid of dps/healer so idk they are okay.

Pure dps...idk I only play support 🤓.

P.S Templar tanks got bug fixes, and if you really wanted some strong ways to play. Also templar is so strong in pvp...I got running around in divines without problems.

Sanguinor2

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

P.S Templar tanks got bug fixes, and if you really wanted some strong ways to play. Also templar is so strong in pvp...I got running around in divines without problems.

If you run around as templar in divines in pvp without problems then you never face good players.

gepe87

Vajrak wrote: »

Berchelous wrote: »

Are these classes replaced by necromancer and warden?
All templars got now is poor old aoe cleanse.
What do you think?

Templar has SELF cleanse; AoE via Synergy. ALL Classes have AoE Cleanse via Alliance War skill: Purge.

You can't make a good argument if you have the basic facts wrong to begin with.

The old 'slot purge' argument. Very unfair do have a free purge (warden wit netch) vs a really expensive skill on already hard to sustain class.

UrbanMonk

Vajrak wrote: »

Berchelous wrote: »

Are these classes replaced by necromancer and warden?
All templars got now is poor old aoe cleanse.
What do you think?

Templar has SELF cleanse; AoE via Synergy. ALL Classes have AoE Cleanse via Alliance War skill: Purge.

You can't make a good argument if you have the basic facts wrong to begin with.

Are you serious?
Templar-
-Give one instance where anyone stam or mag uses AvA Purge be stam or mag except Ball Groups.
-Can you tell one buff Templars got in last few patches. Specially since harrowstorm.
-Their burning light proc was trashed which was a big deal in PvE and PvP both.
-Their maj defile is tied to a skill which can be interrupted or roll dodged. Try avoiding a 15k Bone dude running at you with huge damage and defile.
-Try hitting anyone but a dummy and land all 4 Jab/puncturing hits...
-Compare their cheap ulti to a NB incap...thats another point NB are trash too in certain regards.

DK
- should be named as Sloth Knight...
- no class spammable for stam atleast. Dont dare say poop rocks. But for this point spammable of warden/ necro is also poop.
- maj defile comes from ultimate.
- self healing skill is still garbage.
- warden can reflect range attacks, why not wings?
- necro/warden have self purge from class skill. Where is DK purge...
- Both classes have passive defence, minor protection/ spirit. DK gets a 3k spell res?
- Sub assault every 3 sec, BB every 5 sec, burst, g l dotting anyone who can move faster than you or can purge...oh wait necro and warden...

I dont have anything against these classes. But ignoring that other claases should be brought to same level is pathetic...

Just becasue Templar has Purge, it doesnt mean class is on par with warden/necro...

Firstmep

Templar have purge, which costs 500 mag less than efficient purge, which also removes negative effects from allies in an 18m radius.
The purify synergy has a long cooldown.

relentless_turnip

PvP perspective:

I would say magdk is pretty much top tier for 1 v 1 at the moment. I never have any trouble 1 v 1, open world is always a bit of a slog...

I don't have a levelled templar so can't speak for them.

Stamdk is lacking for sure at the moment. Wardens will be pretty neutered next patch, I am actually looking forward to fighting them 😂
My warden won't be effected as at the moment it's very niche... Stamcro will be nearly as bad, whilst magcro will be worst than it already is.

ZarkingFrued

Vajrak wrote: »

Berchelous wrote: »

Are these classes replaced by necromancer and warden?
All templars got now is poor old aoe cleanse.
What do you think?

Templar has SELF cleanse; AoE via Synergy. ALL Classes have AoE Cleanse via Alliance War skill: Purge.

You can't make a good argument if you have the basic facts wrong to begin with.

The OP had no facts wrong. He didn't say only Plar has AOE cleanse. Your argument doesn't even touch on the point they're making. The only good thing about Templar is the cheap AOE cleanse, you try sustaining purge on anything else. Ability to easily cleanse is the trademark of Plar, and honestly its all they have

Skander

I think they want to sell the class tokens



Which means this game is crap

Atherakhia

The only class in this game that is dead and ignored is Mag Necromancer in PvP.

No one is going to believe any stamina class is dead or ignored considering this is literally Elder Stamina Online and any stamina class is miles ahead of half the mag classes in this game and no where near as bad off as Magicka Necromancer is.

Fact is that the Templar and Dragon Knight are actually fairly well designed classes and while they may not be top dogs right now, the classes that are 'better off' are generally considered to be the most broken classes in the game. And even those classes are largely being carried by only one or 2 over-tuned skills.

So I'm sorry, but this is one of those situations where the solution isn't to buff either Templars or Dragon Knights but rather reign in some of the overperforming things that other classes have been taking advantage of for so long. We're already seeing that with these major and minor buff changes which will have a fairly substantial impact on the 2 classes most complained about in this very thread.

Firstmep

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

Vajrak wrote: »

Berchelous wrote: »

Are these classes replaced by necromancer and warden?
All templars got now is poor old aoe cleanse.
What do you think?

Templar has SELF cleanse; AoE via Synergy. ALL Classes have AoE Cleanse via Alliance War skill: Purge.

You can't make a good argument if you have the basic facts wrong to begin with.

The OP had no facts wrong. He didn't say only Plar has AOE cleanse. Your argument doesn't even touch on the point they're making. The only good thing about Templar is the cheap AOE cleanse, you try sustaining purge on anything else. Ability to easily cleanse is the trademark of Plar, and honestly its all they have

Cheap? You call 5k Magicka cost cheap?

Koubo

Atherakhia wrote: »

The only class in this game that is dead and ignored is Mag Necromancer in PvP.

No one is going to believe any stamina class is dead or ignored considering this is literally Elder Stamina Online and any stamina class is miles ahead of half the mag classes in this game and no where near as bad off as Magicka Necromancer is.

Fact is that the Templar and Dragon Knight are actually fairly well designed classes and while they may not be top dogs right now, the classes that are 'better off' are generally considered to be the most broken classes in the game. And even those classes are largely being carried by only one or 2 over-tuned skills.

So I'm sorry, but this is one of those situations where the solution isn't to buff either Templars or Dragon Knights but rather reign in some of the overperforming things that other classes have been taking advantage of for so long. We're already seeing that with these major and minor buff changes which will have a fairly substantial impact on the 2 classes most complained about in this very thread.

having a PvP strict view isn't objective. Yes MagCro isn't in a good spot in PvP (while they are average low DPS but mandatory support in PvE) they are still better in PvE than MagPlar (because MagPlar rely at 100% on mele spammable and bring nothing to the group), and NO end game trial will bring a Stam setup.

Finally, if you play StamPlar in PvP (because we're talking about PvP) you might notice that StamPlar bring NOTHING from Templar's skill line. Cant proc Burning light (Burst) BackLash (POTL) deal pity damage, you have 0 (ZERO) heal or mitigation from Templar's line and rely at 100% on Vigor (which isn't bad, neither great as it NEVER saved my as*. I'm an average low player in PvP, i can admit that but i never fought a Stamplar in PvP to prouve me it's a good PvP class, and it's obivous why we dont see any/much there. (neither MagCro as far as I remember, but it's not a MagCro's thread)

SidraWillowsky

Do you not remember the Templar meta we had a few months ago?

techyeshic

Ironic enough; my favorite classes to play are literally both mag and stam templar and mDK for PvP. I am really itching for this weeks tests to get over to bring my stamplar out without hearing how OP stamplar is. I've been enjoying Magdk during this but I am real tired of leap causing desync into a rubberband in lag lately

Firstmep

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Do you not remember the Templar meta we had a few months ago?

Nope. Warden, Necro and magsorc have been leagues ahead of both templars for a while now.
For solo play I'd put stamblade right there as well.

Vizirith

As far as pvp goes, the only standout weak class is magcro. But both stamplars and stamdks lost their niches to stamcros and stamdens. DK was the slow tanky class that had alot of inherent tankiness even when focusing dps. Like a dot and rot playstyle. Stamdens were similar but had burst along with the tankiness instead of the dots. Stamcro brought both rot and burst what with blastbones defile. On paper there is almost no point in going stamdk over stamcro other than leap vs smash.

With the breach and fracture combination PotL loses some its effectiveness and I doubt with major evasion going from 25% to 20% that biting jabs will be able to make up for it. If you go pierce armor to give major and minor fracture you now have to back bar SnB which means FB 2H for rally, which means no source of major expedition unless you go RAT which hurts your already low mag pool and reduces purging. To make up for it you can use a gap closer and then at that point just go invasion over crit rush to be able to gain a slot from not using javalin. FB (2H)- Biting jabs, Executioner, XFlexSpotX, Rally, Camo Hunter; BB (SnB)- Pierce Armor, Invasion, Vigor, Extended Ritual, Rune. At that point just go another class.

Necro's purge is far superior compared to templars just based on how fast it pays off. Expunge and Modify (removing up to 2 negative effects from yourself and restoring 515 Magicka and Stamina for each negative effect removed. While slotted, the cost of all your abilities are reduced by 3%) costs 1940 health (at work just looking at eso-skillbook.com). Depending on what you purge you may have lost 2k health to those dots in the next second. Disregarding the 1030 stam and magicka return, disregarding the 3% ability cost reduction, depending on build/food that may almost be sustained just by your health recovery. Meanwhile templar purge is 5 debuffs for 4860 magicka, minor mending and 10% more blocked damage. Most stamplars don't invest anything into magicka so that'd be around what 500ish magicka regen and inifnitely sustainable if used around every 20 secs. It's literally not even in the same ballpark.

With the nerf to major mending from frag shield dk's survivability will drop pretty significantly, which was pretty much the only thing keeping it barely viable.

Skjaldbjorn

PVE Stamden Perspective:

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hi.

I'm the most overnerfed, ignored DPS class since release.

Greystag

For the first time in what? 6 years? Calm down.

Koubo

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

PVE Stamden Perspective:

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hi.

I'm the most overnerfed, ignored DPS class since release.

First : not a StamDen topic.
Second : i agree they are not represented in PvE for a reason (not being great at all)
Third : it's kinda complicated to buff the overperforming PvP class to be good in PvE without making it completly GodMoD for PvP. That's the problem, i wont deny something must be done. I wish, skill was different from PvP and PvE but it aint gone happen

Firstmep

Koubo wrote: »

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

PVE Stamden Perspective:

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hi.

I'm the most overnerfed, ignored DPS class since release.

First : not a StamDen topic.
Second : i agree they are not represented in PvE for a reason (not being great at all)
Third : it's kinda complicated to buff the overperforming PvP class to be good in PvE without making it completly GodMoD for PvP. That's the problem, i wont deny something must be done. I wish, skill was different from PvP and PvE but it aint gone happen

I mean the sub assault change was good move, removes some of the aoe burst potential of stamden, but gives them an extra gcd to work with.
Problem is their tankiness combined with the high burst makes them a little too well rounded compared to some of the other classes.
They could definetly peg down the heal on Arctic blast a bit, and i think warden would be in a much more balanced spot pvp wise.
After that their spammable needs to be reworked both for mag and stam.
Having a weak dot attached to off balance, and you can only proc it from range?
What a joke.
All Stam specs should have class based melee spammable option, period.

cheesefome

Oh dear. Probably currently the most op classes atm.

hakan

Firstmep wrote: »

Koubo wrote: »

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

PVE Stamden Perspective:

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hi.

I'm the most overnerfed, ignored DPS class since release.

First : not a StamDen topic.
Second : i agree they are not represented in PvE for a reason (not being great at all)
Third : it's kinda complicated to buff the overperforming PvP class to be good in PvE without making it completly GodMoD for PvP. That's the problem, i wont deny something must be done. I wish, skill was different from PvP and PvE but it aint gone happen

I mean the sub assault change was good move, removes some of the aoe burst potential of stamden, but gives them an extra gcd to work with.
Problem is their tankiness combined with the high burst makes them a little too well rounded compared to some of the other classes.
They could definetly peg down the heal on Arctic blast a bit, and i think warden would be in a much more balanced spot pvp wise.
After that their spammable needs to be reworked both for mag and stam.
Having a weak dot attached to off balance, and you can only proc it from range?
What a joke.
All Stam specs should have class based melee spammable option, period.

lol. that weak dot hits better than most dots though. and wasnt it undodgeable? or did they changed that again? seems good to me.

Firstmep

hakan wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Koubo wrote: »

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

PVE Stamden Perspective:

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hi.

I'm the most overnerfed, ignored DPS class since release.

First : not a StamDen topic.
Second : i agree they are not represented in PvE for a reason (not being great at all)
Third : it's kinda complicated to buff the overperforming PvP class to be good in PvE without making it completly GodMoD for PvP. That's the problem, i wont deny something must be done. I wish, skill was different from PvP and PvE but it aint gone happen

I mean the sub assault change was good move, removes some of the aoe burst potential of stamden, but gives them an extra gcd to work with.
Problem is their tankiness combined with the high burst makes them a little too well rounded compared to some of the other classes.
They could definetly peg down the heal on Arctic blast a bit, and i think warden would be in a much more balanced spot pvp wise.
After that their spammable needs to be reworked both for mag and stam.
Having a weak dot attached to off balance, and you can only proc it from range?
What a joke.
All Stam specs should have class based melee spammable option, period.

lol. that weak dot hits better than most dots though. and wasnt it undodgeable? or did they changed that again? seems good to me.

I think you mean Growing Swarm, thats a different dot from the one attached to Cutting Dive.

lucky_Sage

In what type of pvp are y’all talking about
Magcro are one of the best pvp classes for AvA right now. Not the best for 1vx and decent small group and BG’s and bad one dueling
Magdks are god awful 1vx and AvA.great at dueling and decent is small group and BG’s
But magdks have the lowest kill potential in the game they’ll deal the most dmg but lowest kills.
Haven’t played a Templar in a very long time because class is boring asf. But they are decent at dueling and BG’s not to great in ava other than healers and just as bad as dks in 1vx.
When I play my magcro in BG’s everyone just dies in front me without effort

Defilted

StamDK and Stamplars are everywhere in PVP. Xbox NA Cyro. Not sure if these are the most popular classes but there are a lot.

Firstmep

Defilted wrote: »

StamDK and Stamplars are everywhere in PVP. Xbox NA Cyro. Not sure if these are the most popular classes but there are a lot.

I mean different platforms have different metas.
On pc EU stamplar and stamDK are kinda unpopular right now, neither goes very well with the procset meta, and Stat based builds on these classes are strictly.worse than on stamden/stamcro.
It's also important to note that you can clap bad players with any class/spec and it really shouldn't be the main factor into how a class performs.
In bgs stamplars are pretty non existent as the ridiculously low self healing of the class really shows in no cp, and our dmg was just destroyed by multiple heavy nerfs.
StamDK is in the sameish boat, basically not really doing much outside leap and come next patch their healing is also taking a huge hit.
Someone posted a class tier list for pvp based on class rep and well known top players feedback recently on the forums and both specs were heavily on the lower end of the spectrum in most pvp modes.
For personally, I have mained stamplar since it was even possible(and magplar before), but I do 10x better on my stamsorc in bgs than my main at the moment.
The class.just doesn't bring anything to bgs that other classes can't do much better.
Power of the light hits for.next to nothing, burning light procs about half as often as before Stonethorn and defensively stamplar has been one of the worse specs in the game for a long time.
And yes we have purge, which costs 5k Magicka, and with the current bg meta it might as well be free and I still couldn't keep up with all the dot procs.

Kory

This thread requires me to PRETEND that I didn't just see DragonKnights and Templars dominate BGs over the last couple weeks My team got carried by a dragonknight one time

Sleep724

Kory wrote: »

This thread requires me to PRETEND that I didn't just see DragonKnights and Templars dominate BGs over the last couple weeks My team got carried by a dragonknight one time

Let’s not forget many players don’t want to level alts and will stick with their classes no matter what. The fact still remains tho any setup on a DK or Templar can be done better on a Warden and Necro.