Werewolf is incredibly overpowered

Fawn4287

Werewolf is so insanely strong, on top of giving its insanely strong stats, it also offers high mobility, an incredibly strong heal and works very well with proc sets which all seems a bit strong. However the issue that is causing major problems is the fact that in many circumstances it essentially seems like it never ends. The passives that extend duration need to be outright removed, its insane that all other transformation ultimates last 20 seconds or so, but werewolf can go indefinitely in areas like the IC or when people run in a large group and there are plenty of corpses to eat. These need to be removed to bring it in line with the other transformation ultimates.

Chrlynsch

Werewolf = Balance

Heal potency comes from max health.
Heal sustainability comes from Magicka regen.

Increasing either reduces damage.

You say they have an incredibly strong heal. How so? Do you know how much a werewolf can heal for at 25k health in no-cp? I do, and it is laughable, the cost/heal ratio is absolute garbage. Without increasing your max health/magic regen werewolves wouldn't last 10 seconds without getting slaughtered.

Their bonuses all come at a cost:

-Extra Damage: Increased ability cost
-Extra Speed: No snare removal
-Extra Armor: Weakness to Poison, and Fighter's guild abilies

They lose many of their class passives, all weapon passives, world passives, guild passives while in form.

Every other build in the game can increase survival by increasing their primary damage stats, werewolf can not.

Chrlynsch

Also there is another thread with this same topic you should post in.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/540191/werewolf-is-so-incredibly-easy-and-overpowered-and-unfair#latest

That you started 6 days ago...

erio

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Werewolf = Balance

Heal potency comes from max health.
Heal sustainability comes from Magicka regen.

Increasing either reduces damage.

You say they have an incredibly strong heal. How so? Do you know how much a werewolf can heal for at 25k health in no-cp? I do, and it is laughable, the cost/heal ratio is absolute garbage. Without increasing your max health/magic regen werewolves wouldn't last 10 seconds without getting slaughtered.

Their bonuses all come at a cost:

-Extra Damage: Increased ability cost
-Extra Speed: No snare removal
-Extra Armor: Weakness to Poison, and Fighter's guild abilies

They lose many of their class passives, all weapon passives, world passives, guild passives while in form.

Every other build in the game can increase survival by increasing their primary damage stats, werewolf can not.

Dude you comment this on every ww post, trying to justify werewolf

They have really high stat pools lmao, "increased ability cost, heal potency" whatever is irrelevant.
Is rolldoge not a thing, what do you mean they cant remove snares?
Poisons and fighters guild abilities dont make much of a difference.

dinokstrunz

If werewolves are so powerful then why isn't everyone running around as Werewolves. Most people who struggle against doggos are usually glass cannons with no healing output, doggos lack damage output to kill any good player and are usually seen as free AP because they're not very good in almost any situation. The only time I'd be concerned about doggos is if there's a large pack of doggos which is somewhat never seen these days.

erio

dinokstrunz wrote: »

If werewolves are so powerful then why isn't everyone running around as Werewolves. Most people who struggle against doggos are usually glass cannons with no healing output, doggos lack damage output to kill any good player and are usually seen as free AP because they're not very good in almost any situation. The only time I'd be concerned about doggos is if there's a large pack of doggos which is somewhat never seen these days.

If stamcros are so op why isnt everyone playing them? Thats not very good logic man.
And like all classes, theres good and bad players. Bad wws are free ap. A good ww in a good build is pretty much unkillable most of the time

Thraben

Fawn4287 wrote: »

Werewolf is so insanely strong, on top of giving its insanely strong stats, it also offers high mobility, an incredibly strong heal and works very well with proc sets which all seems a bit strong. However the issue that is causing major problems is the fact that in many circumstances it essentially seems like it never ends. The passives that extend duration need to be outright removed, its insane that all other transformation ultimates last 20 seconds or so, but werewolf can go indefinitely in areas like the IC or when people run in a large group and there are plenty of corpses to eat. These need to be removed to bring it in line with the other transformation ultimates.

How many Werewolf packs have seen running around in Cyro lately?

And how many of those are little more than cheap AP for... well... everyone?

Werewolves are only strong as long as you don't know how to build your Stamina class correctly (with the possible exeption of Stamblade, granted).

After that, they are more for RP than for anything else.

CC absolutely kills WW - one roll dodge, one break free, and after the next CC that poor little puppy starts just howling until it runs out of magicka without doing any harm.

DocFrost72

You want a 20 second werewolf?

Do you agree on increasing the dps of werewolf form to allow it to be a competitive choice in pve?

Chrlynsch

erio wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Werewolf = Balance

Heal potency comes from max health.
Heal sustainability comes from Magicka regen.

Increasing either reduces damage.

You say they have an incredibly strong heal. How so? Do you know how much a werewolf can heal for at 25k health in no-cp? I do, and it is laughable, the cost/heal ratio is absolute garbage. Without increasing your max health/magic regen werewolves wouldn't last 10 seconds without getting slaughtered.

Their bonuses all come at a cost:

-Extra Damage: Increased ability cost
-Extra Speed: No snare removal
-Extra Armor: Weakness to Poison, and Fighter's guild abilies

They lose many of their class passives, all weapon passives, world passives, guild passives while in form.

Every other build in the game can increase survival by increasing their primary damage stats, werewolf can not.

Dude you comment this on every ww post, trying to justify werewolf

They have really high stat pools lmao, "increased ability cost, heal potency" whatever is irrelevant.
Is rolldoge not a thing, what do you mean they cant remove snares?
Poisons and fighters guild abilities dont make much of a difference.

I post in these topics to try and help enlighten players on unfamiliar subjects. See below.

Roll dodge removes roots, and immobilization. These are effects that remove all movement from a character. They have a cooldown from either waiting out the timer or after roll dodging.

Snares are effects that reduce movement speed. They are are not removed by roll dodging. They can be refreshed and can have a 100% uptime on a target.

Werewolves have no way natural way to remove snares. This means that they can be brought down to a crawl, thus countering their speed boon.

katorga

erio wrote: »

dinokstrunz wrote: »

If werewolves are so powerful then why isn't everyone running around as Werewolves. Most people who struggle against doggos are usually glass cannons with no healing output, doggos lack damage output to kill any good player and are usually seen as free AP because they're not very good in almost any situation. The only time I'd be concerned about doggos is if there's a large pack of doggos which is somewhat never seen these days.

If stamcros are so op why isnt everyone playing them? Thats not very good logic man.
And like all classes, theres good and bad players. Bad wws are free ap. A good ww in a good build is pretty much unkillable most of the time

"pretty much unkillable most of the time" means they are killable.

dinokstrunz

erio wrote: »

dinokstrunz wrote: »

If werewolves are so powerful then why isn't everyone running around as Werewolves. Most people who struggle against doggos are usually glass cannons with no healing output, doggos lack damage output to kill any good player and are usually seen as free AP because they're not very good in almost any situation. The only time I'd be concerned about doggos is if there's a large pack of doggos which is somewhat never seen these days.

If stamcros are so op why isnt everyone playing them? Thats not very good logic man.
And like all classes, theres good and bad players. Bad wws are free ap. A good ww in a good build is pretty much unkillable most of the time

unkillable lol. A lot of players would laugh at such statement you know. Yes like any class if built correctly a werewolf is tanky but compared to things like stamden and stamcro it's not even close.

Theignson

WW abilities cost a huge amount. They have a single heal that costs 5747 magica! Two heals and the average stam players magica pool is gone.

It's all about who is playing the WW. You may have run into some of the strong players in IC in this event

DocFrost72

Theignson wrote: »

WW abilities cost a huge amount. They have a single heal that costs 5747 magica! Two heals and the average stam players magica pool is gone.

It's all about who is playing the WW. You may have run into some of the strong players in IC in this event

He ran into a werewolf wearing physique. In his last post on the subject, he openly admitted he could hardly find them anywhere but in IC, and I'd wager there's a great reason for that.

geonsocal

erio wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Werewolf = Balance

Heal potency comes from max health.
Heal sustainability comes from Magicka regen.

Increasing either reduces damage.

You say they have an incredibly strong heal. How so? Do you know how much a werewolf can heal for at 25k health in no-cp? I do, and it is laughable, the cost/heal ratio is absolute garbage. Without increasing your max health/magic regen werewolves wouldn't last 10 seconds without getting slaughtered.

Their bonuses all come at a cost:

-Extra Damage: Increased ability cost
-Extra Speed: No snare removal
-Extra Armor: Weakness to Poison, and Fighter's guild abilies

They lose many of their class passives, all weapon passives, world passives, guild passives while in form.

Every other build in the game can increase survival by increasing their primary damage stats, werewolf can not.

Dude you comment this on every ww post, trying to justify werewolf

hahahahahahahaha...Chrlynsch has forgotten more about werewolf builds than you and I will ever even learn - combined...

as always, the answer remains the same - build and play what you all fear so much, then comment after you run in to someone loaded up on poisons, a dawnbreaker and snares...oh yeah, and that one fearless werewolf killer rocking silver bolts...

EtTuBrutus

Everyone saying the you have build sustain and hp into them is what makes them weak has clearly never built a hearty ww. The stat boosts and passives for being in form makes it easy to fill the gaps.

Malacath and torc exist.

Mines not even built for crazy survivability and I can take a beating, carried by WW passives and torc.

Fawn4287

Nearly every stam build that isnt a night blade or something trying for 1 or 2vX clips in the sewers prior to the event is a werewolf. People complain about werewolf healing... ZOS buffed alessians doubling the health regen to resistance ratio, combined with either arteum or Sugar skills and you have more health regen than most peoples vigor ticks with a heal stronger than rally that can be spammed. Werewolf also gets more resources back from heavy attacking, which with CP and heavy armour passives gives an absolute huge return of resources. An illogical anecdotal reason of “most werewolves I see...”, bad players are bad on any class, this isn’t a justification as to why werewolves should continue to be so strong and last for so long. Why doesn’t vampire lord or necro goliath have time increasing passives to match werewolf? How many complaints are there here about how over performing those transformation ults are? Alessian, Hulking drauger with either kena or troll king is the meta. Werewolf gets major defile, major berserk and 10% damage mitigation, that is better than a stamcros tool kit, which is considered by many to be by far the most overpowered class.

Nord_Raseri

Uh...no. @Chrlynsch knows ww intimately. Both how to rock one and how to easily drop one. I'd seriously consider taking advice from him if you actually want to learn something rather than continuously making the same "too OP, please nerf" threads that are splattered all over these forums. Not trying to be mean, you'll never get better if you ignore sound advice and constantly call for everything to be nerfed.

Qbiken

delete

Chrlynsch

Fawn4287 wrote: »

Nearly every stam build that isnt a night blade or something trying for 1 or 2vX clips in the sewers prior to the event is a werewolf. People complain about werewolf healing... ZOS buffed alessians doubling the health regen to resistance ratio, combined with either arteum or Sugar skills and you have more health regen than most peoples vigor ticks with a heal stronger than rally that can be spammed. Werewolf also gets more resources back from heavy attacking, which with CP and heavy armour passives gives an absolute huge return of resources. An illogical anecdotal reason of “most werewolves I see...”, bad players are bad on any class, this isn’t a justification as to why werewolves should continue to be so strong and last for so long. Why doesn’t vampire lord or necro goliath have time increasing passives to match werewolf? How many complaints are there here about how over performing those transformation ults are? Alessian, Hulking drauger with either kena or troll king is the meta. Werewolf gets major defile, major berserk and 10% damage mitigation, that is better than a stamcros tool kit, which is considered by many to be by far the most overpowered class.

Allesian, is not exclusive to werewolf, and only grants 200 health recovery over a human build that is the equivalent of 100 health per second...

Humans also can use arteum or sugar skulls, heck many human builds have health regen benefits in their class passives that werewolf doesn't have access to, making a health regen more potent on human builds than werewolf.

If.... a werewolf chooses to get major berserk they also increase damage to themselves (actually at a more detrimental rate to themselves)

Necro can have major protection, 10% damage mitigation from spirit, apply Major Vulnerability, major defile (can apply safely from range).

erio

katorga wrote: »

erio wrote: »

dinokstrunz wrote: »

If werewolves are so powerful then why isn't everyone running around as Werewolves. Most people who struggle against doggos are usually glass cannons with no healing output, doggos lack damage output to kill any good player and are usually seen as free AP because they're not very good in almost any situation. The only time I'd be concerned about doggos is if there's a large pack of doggos which is somewhat never seen these days.

If stamcros are so op why isnt everyone playing them? Thats not very good logic man.
And like all classes, theres good and bad players. Bad wws are free ap. A good ww in a good build is pretty much unkillable most of the time

"pretty much unkillable most of the time" means they are killable.

yea?

erio

dinokstrunz wrote: »

erio wrote: »

dinokstrunz wrote: »

If werewolves are so powerful then why isn't everyone running around as Werewolves. Most people who struggle against doggos are usually glass cannons with no healing output, doggos lack damage output to kill any good player and are usually seen as free AP because they're not very good in almost any situation. The only time I'd be concerned about doggos is if there's a large pack of doggos which is somewhat never seen these days.

If stamcros are so op why isnt everyone playing them? Thats not very good logic man.
And like all classes, theres good and bad players. Bad wws are free ap. A good ww in a good build is pretty much unkillable most of the time

unkillable lol. A lot of players would laugh at such statement you know. Yes like any class if built correctly a werewolf is tanky but compared to things like stamden and stamcro it's not even close.

Take 2 seconds to read what I wrote
Didnt say they where. People always stamcro is way to strong, so using the guys logic, everyone should be playing it right?

"If werewolves are so powerful then why isn't everyone running around as Werewolves"
"If stamcros are so op why isnt everyone playing them? Thats not very good logic man. "

BaiterOfZergs

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Werewolf = Balance

Heal potency comes from max health.
Heal sustainability comes from Magicka regen.

Increasing either reduces damage.

You say they have an incredibly strong heal. How so? Do you know how much a werewolf can heal for at 25k health in no-cp? I do, and it is laughable, the cost/heal ratio is absolute garbage. Without increasing your max health/magic regen werewolves wouldn't last 10 seconds without getting slaughtered.

Their bonuses all come at a cost:

-Extra Damage: Increased ability cost
-Extra Speed: No snare removal
-Extra Armor: Weakness to Poison, and Fighter's guild abilies

They lose many of their class passives, all weapon passives, world passives, guild passives while in form.

Every other build in the game can increase survival by increasing their primary damage stats, werewolf can not.

Only thing I’ll comment on is that health part. I’ve seen wws with 35-40k health in no cp. The last one I seen didn’t get a crazy amount of kills but they were a big nuisance and couldn’t die.

In a group setting that can easily become a problem. One of the biggest issues about feedback is people act as if every fight is a 1v1 and I can’t remember the last time I got a 1v1 in this game. And if I do it doesn’t last too long because someone jumps in.

geonsocal

you know - some of you all watch waaaaay too many eso vids...

just play the game, get better, have fun

Hotdog_23

Run into 2 WW in no cp Imperial City with 52K health. They did not die or ever come out of WW form. They knew the map well and used LOS. Groups of 10-20 players could not kill them. Damage was good but not great but they did kill people and again did not die.

Thraben

Fawn4287 wrote: »

Werewolf gets major defile, major berserk and 10% damage mitigation, that is better than a stamcros tool kit, which is considered by many to be by far the most overpowered class.

Werewolf: Major defile -> Stamcros have it, and a better version of it.

Werewolf: Major Berserk -> together with -23% damage reduction, something any experienced PvP player would accept But you COULD get a similar effect on any other class, just equip Blood Frenzy.


Werewolf: 10% damage mitigation -> Stamcros have, depending on the situation, between 40% and 70% damage reduction, not even counting Pariah (because WW could wear Pariah too)

erio wrote: »

"If stamcros are so op why isnt everyone playing them? Thats not very good logic man. "

StamCros cost money whilst WW are part of the base game. Also, there is a certain learning curve involved. Most people play their StamCro like some sort of Stamina Dragonknight without ever noticing that they could do better using the self- synergy.



Werewolves are great at farming noobs. As people start to learn the game, Werewolves quickly lose power. Later on, they are only a burst option for StamSorcs, and no option for StamWardens and Stamcros at all. They are most likely used by StamDK tanks who want to appear more dangerous than they are when their shield ulti isn't on cooldown (at least in Open World).

I actually know multiple people who only play Werewolf in the uplevel phase in NoCP BGs and NoCP IC, and they always stop playing WW when their class gets the equipment and skills they need.

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

Run into 2 WW in no cp Imperial City with 52K health. They did not die or ever come out of WW form. They knew the map well and used LOS. Groups of 10-20 players could not kill them. Damage was good but not great but they did kill people and again did not die.

Basically, like this I´m pretty sure, though, most Stamina classes would have done a similar thing (well, except 2 Stamcros, who would have probably tried to kill you all without endless kiting). If you would have perma CCed them, they would have died. But even without CC, they most probably only did prey on the weak (like Bowtard players).

ScardyFox

Seems more of an issue of people need to get better at playing their class and learning how the game works better. WW, in no way, shape, or form is "OP". There are plenty of ways to pop a WW like a balloon. Also, players holding off many players isn't a WW exclusive thing. Necros, Templars, Sorcs can do it too.

Get better at the game, stop demanding a change to things because you haven't learned to cope yet. Get better, don't demand the bar be lowered for you, rise above it.

Skoomah

I don’t know about you guys... but most werewolves I run across are trash.

Easily killed.

A bit of advice. If you see someone with a ton of health and tanking 10 people and not dying, then you should probably move on and stop attacking. Their builds are for trolling not killing.

How many times have you seen 10 noobs beat on a tank troll with none of them slotting a hard CC like a stun to give them the window to burst down the tank?

And how about slotting defile to reduce the tank’s healing?

Just please learn to play... what I described are the most the basic of basic game mechanics.

BaiterOfZergs

In 2020 in players still think tanky equals no damage lol

Ocelot9x

I love how all the ww roleplayers are gathering in this thread.
Currently IC is plagued by ww groups.
Lot of the usual pvp [snip] are running ww builds with incredible mobility,tankyness and sustain.
And keep in mind, even if I'm a bit rusty cause I just came back to the game I run in a small scale group with few of the best pvpers in PS4 eu and they all complain about ww [snip]
Running with 40k hp, amazing pressure and the best mobility in the game is not healthy for the game

[Edited to remove Baiting]

Qbiken

Ocelot9x wrote: »

I love how all the ww roleplayers are gathering in this thread.
Currently IC is plagued by ww groups.
Lot of the usual pvp [snip] are running ww builds with incredible mobility,tankyness and sustain.
And keep in mind, even if I'm a bit rusty cause I just came back to the game I run in a small scale group with few of the best pvpers in PS4 eu and they all complain about ww [snip]
Running with 40k hp, amazing pressure and the best mobility in the game is not healthy for the game

Best mobility in game hahahahahah. Sorcs wants to know your location

dinokstrunz

Ocelot9x wrote: »

I love how all the ww roleplayers are gathering in this thread.
Currently IC is plagued by ww groups.
Lot of the usual pvp [snip] are running ww builds with incredible mobility,tankyness and sustain.
And keep in mind, even if I'm a bit rusty cause I just came back to the game I run in a small scale group with few of the best pvpers in PS4 eu and they all complain about ww [snip]
Running with 40k hp, amazing pressure and the best mobility in the game is not healthy for the game

I'm sorry but this might be the funniest comment I've read so far today, best mobility yeah right. Have you ever heard of a class called Sorcerer?