Werewolf is so incredibly easy and overpowered and unfair

Fawn4287

15% stam recovery for slotting the ulti (Like vamp on stam is even a consideration now), 30% max stam for using the ult, increased stam return on heavy attacks, increased movement speed, 10k resists, 18% increase in weapon damage and you gain a 4 second increase in duration meaning as long as you are in combat you can stay in werewolf and when you aren’t you can eat corpses to maintain it......

It was only after looking in to it did I realise how people that are absolute fingerless potatoes that can’t do anything but hold block until they die on every other class and build can actually be incredibly formidable on a werewolf, combine with the sorc reverse execute passive, some cheesy health recovery and these builds are actually insanely powerful with absurd damage output for literally weaving light attacks and pounce!

Drop the ult length to 20 seconds, reduce the cost to 250, remove every passive that increases duration, the counter to these cheesy tank and turn ult builds is to Turtle and kite them until its over but with werewolf this isn’t at all the case since its got basically a 100% uptime. I don’t know why werewolf gets to be on some pedestal of transformation ults and lasts forever and the more of these builds you group with the cheaper the ult costs! Its actually unbelievable and I can’t imagine what they will perform like in the proc set meta.

Inb4 “Don’t ruin my PvP 35k health super cheese light attack spam bleed werewolf build” disguised as a role play excuse comment

starlizard70ub17_ESO

I've been playing a werewolf in all sorts of PvP and PvE situtations for 5+ years now. Trust me, I die a lot and am still considered to be "good" at playing by my guildmates. Certain niche werewolf builds can be more annoying than others but in general, werewolves are no more difficult to counter then any other class or skill line. Poison, disease, many class and weapon skills, some armor sets and several passive skills in the CP trees all reduce an opponent's recovery rate. If you're PvPing you should be using these options anyway, fighting werewolves or not.

Chrlynsch

*Inhales*

Being a werewolf main I will not comment on them being op or not op as I am biased. But I will list some pain points that I have as werewolf.

The Werewolf's build dilemma
Werewolves are in heavy need of added survival, as their primary self heal scales off of max health; this means that werewolf ultimately has to sacrifice its damage in order to gain survival, unlike other dd that gain survival and damage when they ramp up their primary stats.

This leads to werewolves being especially good at recovering from burst damage, which is the counter to today's meta that is used to being able to burst down their lower health targets. Werewolf's can not survive sustained damage as well as other classes can, that is unless they again reduce their damage in order to gain more magic sustain to heal often enough. The werewolf heal is one of the highest costing heals in the game.

Now what you are left with is a tank low damage werewolf. The opposite of what most werewolves would like to be. Which is a quick and deadly enemy, that has reactive and rewarding game play. But without a snare removal tool in our kit, we are usually left to a crawling pace that due to the natures of snares in pvp is almost always prevalent.

After all these tweaks to the werewolf to get over our shortcomings we are left with a build that is mildly viable in werewolf form and just awkward in human form.

These high health werewolves are using the kit that they were given, the heal they have is a tank heal, is scrales off of max health.

The Common Counter
Werewolves have weakness that are easily accessible to the majority of stam builds (Warden, Necros, DKs, Bow Skill line), poisons, fighter's guild, and enchants, to be exact, most if these are chosen by players before factoring in their effectiveness against werewolf players. In an open field fight who do you think is going to be targeted by the bow user that is packed full of poison damage, once I pop my wolf it as if every single lethal arrow on the field auto locks onto my pelt. This last patch has been very painful for my werewolf in pvp due the popularity of the Venomous Smite set.

Solo Scraper vs Pack Paradox
Most of these short comings can be overlooked in 1v1 situations, as a werewolf, once on their target can apply enough pressure to an opponent to keep them on the defensive, this is why a werewolf is so strong in duels. It really doesn't provide the average player enough time to properly counter a wolf.

So if werewolves are so strong at 1v1 why aren't we seeing whole groups of them taking over Cyrodiil? The truth is that a werewolf is a pretty awful group mate, they really provide no utility or survival to a group. This last patch has helped them some, pack leaders with minor courage, and deafening roar with a minor maim. For the most part if you are fighting 10 Werewolves, you are fighting 10 individuals players, each relying on their own heals for survival. Unlike other groups that can stack aoe healing, cross heal, purge, synergies and ultimate bombs.

Our paws are too clumsy
A lot of times as players we look at the strength of something without taking into account what weaknesses they are overcoming so let me list off some of the things werewolves can't do.

-Can't Stealth
-Can't Mount
-Can't chase down quick moving targets due to the pounce rework
-Can't Place Siege
-Can't make use of weapon passives
-Can't use abilies other than werewolf ones
-Can't heal allies
-Can't apply ranged pressure
-Can't make use of most Guild, World, or Class passives.
-Can't Purge
-Can't remove snares

Werewolves are in a constant state of needing to attack something in order to remain in wolf form. This often puts them out of position, and overextended.

Absurd
If werewolf isn't supposed to thrive at Melee combat where are they supposed to thrive? Don't try and go toe to toe with a werewolf unless you have the proper tools to deal with them.

One thing I agree with and have been saying for years now since the original rework of their heal, was to make it scale like all other DD heals off their primary stat, I will gladly take a 25% more powerful vigor or warden heal that costs 25% more. These high health werewolf's have been a bad design from day one, and would much rather prefer Higher damage, Higher survival, and Higher mobility, like what can be provided by well built stam DD's.

Beginning of the WereProcolypse

If you think that werewolves are bad now just wait until the massive proc sets come out next patch, we all know what went down when Torg's was broken and how well it worked with werewolves. Save your tears for then you will need them.

Fawn4287

Chrlynsch wrote: »

*Inhales*

Being a werewolf main I will not comment on them being op or not op as I am biased. But I will list some pain points that I have as werewolf.

The Werewolf's build dilemma
Werewolves are in heavy need of added survival, as their primary self heal scales off of max health; this means that werewolf ultimately has to sacrifice its damage in order to gain survival, unlike other dd that gain survival and damage when they ramp up their primary stats.

This leads to werewolves being especially good at recovering from burst damage, which is the counter to today's meta that is used to being able to burst down their lower health targets. Werewolf's can not survive sustained damage as well as other classes can, that is unless they again reduce their damage in order to gain more magic sustain to heal often enough. The werewolf heal is one of the highest costing heals in the game.

Now what you are left with is a tank low damage werewolf. The opposite of what most werewolves would like to be. Which is a quick and deadly enemy, that has reactive and rewarding game play. But without a snare removal tool in our kit, we are usually left to a crawling pace that due to the natures of snares in pvp is almost always prevalent.

After all these tweaks to the werewolf to get over our shortcomings we are left with a build that is mildly viable in werewolf form and just awkward in human form.

These high health werewolves are using the kit that they were given, the heal they have is a tank heal, is scrales off of max health.

The Common Counter
Werewolves have weakness that are easily accessible to the majority of stam builds (Warden, Necros, DKs, Bow Skill line), poisons, fighter's guild, and enchants, to be exact, most if these are chosen by players before factoring in their effectiveness against werewolf players. In an open field fight who do you think is going to be targeted by the bow user that is packed full of poison damage, once I pop my wolf it as if every single lethal arrow on the field auto locks onto my pelt. This last patch has been very painful for my werewolf in pvp due the popularity of the Venomous Smite set.

Solo Scraper vs Pack Paradox
Most of these short comings can be overlooked in 1v1 situations, as a werewolf, once on their target can apply enough pressure to an opponent to keep them on the defensive, this is why a werewolf is so strong in duels. It really doesn't provide the average player enough time to properly counter a wolf.

So if werewolves are so strong at 1v1 why aren't we seeing whole groups of them taking over Cyrodiil? The truth is that a werewolf is a pretty awful group mate, they really provide no utility or survival to a group. This last patch has helped them some, pack leaders with minor courage, and deafening roar with a minor maim. For the most part if you are fighting 10 Werewolves, you are fighting 10 individuals players, each relying on their own heals for survival. Unlike other groups that can stack aoe healing, cross heal, purge, synergies and ultimate bombs.

Our paws are too clumsy
A lot of times as players we look at the strength of something without taking into account what weaknesses they are overcoming so let me list off some of the things werewolves can't do.

-Can't Stealth
-Can't Mount
-Can't chase down quick moving targets due to the pounce rework
-Can't Place Siege
-Can't make use of weapon passives
-Can't use abilies other than werewolf ones
-Can't heal allies
-Can't apply ranged pressure
-Can't make use of most Guild, World, or Class passives.
-Can't Purge
-Can't remove snares

Werewolves are in a constant state of needing to attack something in order to remain in wolf form. This often puts them out of position, and overextended.

Absurd
If werewolf isn't supposed to thrive at Melee combat where are they supposed to thrive? Don't try and go toe to toe with a werewolf unless you have the proper tools to deal with them.

One thing I agree with and have been saying for years now since the original rework of their heal, was to make it scale like all other DD heals off their primary stat, I will gladly take a 25% more powerful vigor or warden heal that costs 25% more. These high health werewolf's have been a bad design from day one, and would much rather prefer Higher damage, Higher survival, and Higher mobility, like what can be provided by well built stam DD's.

Beginning of the WereProcolypse

If you think that werewolves are bad now just wait until the massive proc sets come out next patch, we all know what went down when Torg's was broken and how well it worked with werewolves. Save your tears for then you will need them.

My point is that the werewolf passives are incredibly strong, which would be fine and fair if it wasn’t for ridiculous lengths someone can remain in werewolf form, saying don’t engage a werewolf at melee range isn’t really an option for most builds.

Hotdog_23

This is purely a battleground issue.

Udrath

Most people are playing magicka classes with really low mobility, and they're sitting ducks for major defiling werewolves. Healing is already low without it unless you specifically invest into healing. So if two or more members of your team are magicka and don't move alot its going to be tough fights with a werewolf around. They have 100% uptime on major defile with claw of anguish

Chrlynsch

Fawn4287 wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

*Inhales*

Being a werewolf main I will not comment on them being op or not op as I am biased. But I will list some pain points that I have as werewolf.

The Werewolf's build dilemma
Werewolves are in heavy need of added survival, as their primary self heal scales off of max health; this means that werewolf ultimately has to sacrifice its damage in order to gain survival, unlike other dd that gain survival and damage when they ramp up their primary stats.

This leads to werewolves being especially good at recovering from burst damage, which is the counter to today's meta that is used to being able to burst down their lower health targets. Werewolf's can not survive sustained damage as well as other classes can, that is unless they again reduce their damage in order to gain more magic sustain to heal often enough. The werewolf heal is one of the highest costing heals in the game.

Now what you are left with is a tank low damage werewolf. The opposite of what most werewolves would like to be. Which is a quick and deadly enemy, that has reactive and rewarding game play. But without a snare removal tool in our kit, we are usually left to a crawling pace that due to the natures of snares in pvp is almost always prevalent.

After all these tweaks to the werewolf to get over our shortcomings we are left with a build that is mildly viable in werewolf form and just awkward in human form.

These high health werewolves are using the kit that they were given, the heal they have is a tank heal, is scrales off of max health.

The Common Counter
Werewolves have weakness that are easily accessible to the majority of stam builds (Warden, Necros, DKs, Bow Skill line), poisons, fighter's guild, and enchants, to be exact, most if these are chosen by players before factoring in their effectiveness against werewolf players. In an open field fight who do you think is going to be targeted by the bow user that is packed full of poison damage, once I pop my wolf it as if every single lethal arrow on the field auto locks onto my pelt. This last patch has been very painful for my werewolf in pvp due the popularity of the Venomous Smite set.

Solo Scraper vs Pack Paradox
Most of these short comings can be overlooked in 1v1 situations, as a werewolf, once on their target can apply enough pressure to an opponent to keep them on the defensive, this is why a werewolf is so strong in duels. It really doesn't provide the average player enough time to properly counter a wolf.

So if werewolves are so strong at 1v1 why aren't we seeing whole groups of them taking over Cyrodiil? The truth is that a werewolf is a pretty awful group mate, they really provide no utility or survival to a group. This last patch has helped them some, pack leaders with minor courage, and deafening roar with a minor maim. For the most part if you are fighting 10 Werewolves, you are fighting 10 individuals players, each relying on their own heals for survival. Unlike other groups that can stack aoe healing, cross heal, purge, synergies and ultimate bombs.

Our paws are too clumsy
A lot of times as players we look at the strength of something without taking into account what weaknesses they are overcoming so let me list off some of the things werewolves can't do.

-Can't Stealth
-Can't Mount
-Can't chase down quick moving targets due to the pounce rework
-Can't Place Siege
-Can't make use of weapon passives
-Can't use abilies other than werewolf ones
-Can't heal allies
-Can't apply ranged pressure
-Can't make use of most Guild, World, or Class passives.
-Can't Purge
-Can't remove snares

Werewolves are in a constant state of needing to attack something in order to remain in wolf form. This often puts them out of position, and overextended.

Absurd
If werewolf isn't supposed to thrive at Melee combat where are they supposed to thrive? Don't try and go toe to toe with a werewolf unless you have the proper tools to deal with them.

One thing I agree with and have been saying for years now since the original rework of their heal, was to make it scale like all other DD heals off their primary stat, I will gladly take a 25% more powerful vigor or warden heal that costs 25% more. These high health werewolf's have been a bad design from day one, and would much rather prefer Higher damage, Higher survival, and Higher mobility, like what can be provided by well built stam DD's.

Beginning of the WereProcolypse

If you think that werewolves are bad now just wait until the massive proc sets come out next patch, we all know what went down when Torg's was broken and how well it worked with werewolves. Save your tears for then you will need them.

My point is that the werewolf passives are incredibly strong, which would be fine and fair if it wasn’t for ridiculous lengths someone can remain in werewolf form, saying don’t engage a werewolf at melee range isn’t really an option for most builds.

For every passive that werewolves have they have lost at least 2. Remember they only have access to one bar so all the self buffs and utility abilies that you have in human form don't find their way into werewolf form.

With that being said you the strength of werewolf passives have been specifically designed with a check system already in place.

Here are the passives that you listed:

15% stam recovery for slotting the ulti & increased Stam return on heavy attacks.

Werewolf heavy attacks are the slowest melee attacks in the game, they do restore a lot of stamina but also lower your actions per minute, and in pvp they are highly telegraphed, thus easily blockable or dodged. Any long term werewolf player will tell you that the werewolf heavy attack is beyond bugged when trying to hit moving targets. Even without that the stamina returned remains in line with the time it takes to complete a heavy attack.

As for the 15% additional stamina regeneration, Werewolf abilies have been designed to cost 25% more than their comparable abilies with an addional 25% damage done. Though that really isn't the case and the abilies that end up costing well over 25% more, this passive brings the stamina return closer in line with the devs design of 25% more costly but 25% more powerful.


30% increased movement speed

While this passive helps a werewolf get to it's next meal it is directly countered by how snares work in this game, in most pvp encounters multiple sources of snares will bring the werewolf's movement speed to a crawl, this with the werewolf's inability to remove snares makes this passive a wash.

10k resists
Don't get me wrong the additional resistances are very nice, but werewolf does not have access to major resolve, or any source of protection. The ease of not having to activate an ability in order to gain that additional protection comes a price and that is increased damage taken from poison damage, Fighter's guild abilies, and specialized glyphs.

18% increase in weapon damage, 30% max stam
As mentioned before Werewolf abilies are designed to be 25% more powerful, this is where that power comes from. With a lack of a burst ultimate werewolf's regular abilies become stronger but comes at a 25% increased cost that makes them either yolo their resources or regulate their ability usage.