Thews of the Harbinger

CaffeinatedMayhem · August 2020

I've noticed this set popping up recently, even in IC. While it only returns 6% of the wearer's health in damage, it's hard to counter on single-target builds (like magsorc). How do you get a warden to drop block when they can block cast netch and arctic blast, and fire off almost continual storm?

Thews is NOT being updated in Update 27, so why....

Oh. Right. AoE damage isn't blockable.

Trolls gearing up for the AoE tests.

Well, at least it's easy to counter in Cyro. Not sure about IC on my sorc though.

Dirt_Rooster · August 2020

Thing about harbinger is that in order to make it good enough to be viable on its own, you have to take a big hit to your own damage. I haven't had a fight against a harbinger user that didn't end up just being a fight where I hit him till I have to heal, then just keep hitting them until they run out of resources and die. Same as any tank/stall build. The pace and control of the fight is inherently in your favor when you face someone like that.

CaffeinatedMayhem · August 2020

Yes and no. I just fought a health warden in CP IC. Every time I stopped to heal (really fast on magsorc) he just hit arctic blast once and he was full health.

I think all he was doing was blocking, block casting netch and blast, then casting permafrost. I can stay outside perma's range, but what can you do against a heal that scales with health, on a health stacked tank? Also, he was standing on the flag and the guards weren't doing anything, because he wasn't damaging them.

Yes, I could have taken 10 minutes to kill him, but that just makes me vulnerable in IC. In Cyro, I just walk around tanks, there's plenty of room.

I really think ZOS is trying to kill solo play with this update.

Taleof2Cities · August 2020

CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »

I really think ZOS is trying to kill solo play with this update.

Be careful with your slippery slope arguments, @CaffeinatedMayhem ... one Warden troll tank isn't going to usher in some sort of new meta.

Remember, they can't kill anything in any PvP content. The one thing they hate the most is being ignored.

erio · August 2020

Just ignore them they arent going to kill anything

CaffeinatedMayhem · August 2020

erio wrote: »

Just ignore them they arent going to kill anything

So, what happened in IC is thisuy just stood on the flag. Sure, he's not going to kill me, but there went my 33% bonus for the district.

I guess anyone who can't be killed can do whatever they want in IC.

L_Nici · August 2020

Harbinger pops up in BG now too. Mostly MagDks pair it with Grothdaar and Unfathomable Darkness. That basically makes them able to kill while only attacking once with a light attack and then hold block.
I mean not really a threat if you don't hit them, but try to explain that to your team. Also in any form of capture the flag thats pretty messed up, they just stand on the flag the whole game and that flag is untouchable unless you outnumber the enemies on the flag.

erio · August 2020

CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »

erio wrote: »

Just ignore them they arent going to kill anything

So, what happened in IC is thisuy just stood on the flag. Sure, he's not going to kill me, but there went my 33% bonus for the district.

I guess anyone who can't be killed can do whatever they want in IC.

I mean yea theres also other unkillable setups, I think tanks should be changed.

ecru · August 2020

yeah it's pretty broken

Cronopoly · August 2020

It's like old WoW Retribution Tank...I miss him soloing Dungeons 😭
Also of Note, You are killing yourself. Where is that video...Ah found it. 😁
I might use a variant of this for PVE.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nLwLAF0RP0

Dorkener · August 2020

Luckily this "playstyle" is so mind numbingly boring that after trolling around 1-2 BGs most sane people log off / play something else (personal experience included

)

red_emu · September 2020

Cronopoly wrote: »

It's like old WoW Retribution Tank...I miss him soloing Dungeons 😭
Also of Note, You are killing yourself. Where is that video...Ah found it. 😁
I might use a variant of this for PVE.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nLwLAF0RP0

Can't believe I sat and watched for 15 minutes, only to find out it's just another Malacath Band build 🙄🙄🙄

Do any builds exist without Malacath?

Sleep724 · September 2020

red_emu wrote: »

Cronopoly wrote: »

It's like old WoW Retribution Tank...I miss him soloing Dungeons 😭
Also of Note, You are killing yourself. Where is that video...Ah found it. 😁
I might use a variant of this for PVE.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nLwLAF0RP0

Can't believe I sat and watched for 15 minutes, only to find out it's just another Malacath Band build 🙄🙄🙄

Do any builds exist without Malacath?

Generic weapon/spell damage builds that rely on some crits or proc sets with malacath. Take your pick.

universal_wrath · September 2020

red_emu wrote: »

Cronopoly wrote: »

It's like old WoW Retribution Tank...I miss him soloing Dungeons 😭
Also of Note, You are killing yourself. Where is that video...Ah found it. 😁
I might use a variant of this for PVE.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nLwLAF0RP0

Can't believe I sat and watched for 15 minutes, only to find out it's just another Malacath Band build 🙄🙄🙄

Do any builds exist without Malacath?

The sad state of the game currently is that you can kill people using proc sets better than using non proc set builds, and Malachi only makes it more powerful and open up the idea for max health builds like in the video. I can’t tell how how many times I died from people perma blocking and spamming bone shield while their proc sets do their dirty work. Bone shield alone is doing some nasty damage, for a damage shield the return 100% of direct damage unlimited times as long as it’s up...that is just insane. Reminds of old dragon knight wings, but in steroids.

EtTuBrutus · September 2020

Looks pretty cheesy

thegreat_one · September 2020

One Hit from Force pulse is 3 hits, And that gets you three hits in return form harbringer, Casting dots on them is casting dots on yourself. You have to wait for them to get spent......

Urzigurumash · September 2020

thegreat_one wrote: »

Casting dots on them is casting dots on yourself.

It shouldn't be, generally DOTs are unblockable, but if it has an initial Direct Damage component, this first hit will proc Harbinger. I think this was changed in 2016 or 2017. The old tooltip for Harbinger used to state "when you block direct damage", but I think this was removed because it is now redundant. There are a few Direct Damage over Time abilities though, like Flames of Oblivion, every tick of which should proc Harbinger.

Urzigurumash · September 2020

CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »

AoE damage isn't blockable.

AoE Direct Damage is blockable, DOTs are not, at least I think that's how it's supposed to be

CaffeinatedMayhem · September 2020

Urzigurumash wrote: »

CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »

AoE damage isn't blockable.

AoE Direct Damage is blockable, DOTs are not, at least I think that's how it's supposed to be

No, the blockable AoE would be direct like jabs, but ground targeted AoE isn't blockable. Which is most AoE, with or without a DoT component.

Urzigurumash · September 2020

CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »

AoE damage isn't blockable.

AoE Direct Damage is blockable, DOTs are not, at least I think that's how it's supposed to be

No, the blockable AoE would be direct like jabs, but ground targeted AoE isn't blockable. Which is most AoE, with or without a DoT component.

Ah interesting, I did not know that. So the initial Direct Damage component of Eruption is not blockable?

universal_wrath · September 2020

CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »

AoE damage isn't blockable.

AoE Direct Damage is blockable, DOTs are not, at least I think that's how it's supposed to be

No, the blockable AoE would be direct like jabs, but ground targeted AoE isn't blockable. Which is most AoE, with or without a DoT component.

He did say direct though. Blast bone is direct AOE, shalks, curse, mages wrath, nixus breath first hit, meteor and many more are blockable.

precambria · September 2020

ecru wrote: »

yeah it's pretty broken

The name you blanked out might as well be your own, all you had to do was stop attacking them

CaffeinatedMayhem · September 2020

precambria wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

yeah it's pretty broken

The name you blanked out might as well be your own, all you had to do was stop attacking them

Uh, if the counter to a PvP set is "just stop attacking" that is broken and WRONG.

Urzigurumash · September 2020

The counter is DOTs, so allow me to repeat my mantra: Corrosive Armor should buff the DOT portions of Noxious Breath and Venomous Claw.

Qbiken · September 2020

This set needs a cooldown per individual target. HP scaling damage mechanics should not be a thing (or HP based healing mechanics if you ask me, but that´s another discussion)

PapaWeeb · September 2020

Urzigurumash wrote: »

The counter is DOTs, so allow me to repeat my mantra: Corrosive Armor should buff the DOT portions of Noxious Breath and Venomous Claw.

Agreed, hate that they took that from it. Might be overtuned with this proc heavy meta but still.

Urzigurumash · September 2020

PapaWeeb wrote: »

Agreed, hate that they took that from it. Might be overtuned with this proc heavy meta but still.

True, it might further increase the frequency of Proc vs Proc engagements. On that note, has anybody successfully started an Infinite Harbinger Loop, where your Harbinger procs mine and vice versa ad infinitum?

Sergykid · September 2020

ecru wrote: »

yeah it's pretty broken

20 ticks of average 1.5k damage. Over 10 seconds you got hit by a 3k dot. Doesn't seem that op to me, there are other proc sets that hit harder, also you can stop the "dot" damage any time. And any class has access to unlockable CCs, these builds are just target dummies

EtTuBrutus · September 2020

Sergykid wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

yeah it's pretty broken

20 ticks of average 1.5k damage. Over 10 seconds you got hit by a 3k dot. Doesn't seem that op to me, there are other proc sets that hit harder, also you can stop the "dot" damage any time. And any class has access to unlockable CCs, these builds are just target dummies

3k dot doesn't seem OP to you? Not a single set comes close to that..

Sergykid · September 2020

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

yeah it's pretty broken

20 ticks of average 1.5k damage. Over 10 seconds you got hit by a 3k dot. Doesn't seem that op to me, there are other proc sets that hit harder, also you can stop the "dot" damage any time. And any class has access to unlockable CCs, these builds are just target dummies

3k dot doesn't seem OP to you? Not a single set comes close to that..

well yes 30k pvp damage from a single source is very much, but i mean not op not because the numbers, but because you are in control of it by stopping attacking, slowing it down by not hitting blockable attacks, or CCing the user

CaffeinatedMayhem · September 2020

Sergykid wrote: »

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

yeah it's pretty broken

20 ticks of average 1.5k damage. Over 10 seconds you got hit by a 3k dot. Doesn't seem that op to me, there are other proc sets that hit harder, also you can stop the "dot" damage any time. And any class has access to unlockable CCs, these builds are just target dummies

3k dot doesn't seem OP to you? Not a single set comes close to that..

well yes 30k pvp damage from a single source is very much, but i mean not op not because the numbers, but because you are in control of it by stopping attacking, slowing it down by not hitting blockable attacks, or CCing the user

lets see - CC, well Thew wills till attack you if the user is CC'd.
Not all classes have strong DoTs or AoE's in a PvP build
So stamDk's... are good at countering this.