Vigor <--> Rapids...DON'T

Kosef

Please DO NOT swap this. Do the logical thing and move Vigor to the FG skill line or make it the first in support. Rapids is essential. Especially for newer players and for people who run a lot of alts. I have 12 and was planning on buying more character slots to go full 18/18. Not anymore. I'm not grinding to R5 on all my alts that don't have it currently and the new ones I planned on making. I do a lot of writs and like to switch between different play styles.

This game has made so many strides in being alt friendly, but this is a huge step back. A lot of people utilize Rapids for alts/farming. Newer Pvp'rs can experience cyrodiil and not at a snails pace while they wait for their mount to get somewhat usable. If your main goal (which I think it isn't ) is to have stamina based classes have access to a heal early on then move it to the first skill line in Support, or move it to the FG skill which can be leveled much faster than Assault.

I think the real reason this is being done is so you can have people purchase these riding training from the crown store more often. That may occur..but you will lose out on the people buying character slots.

Kiralyn2000

Are people really so addicted to speed, that they consider this skill "essential"? Or that they'd ever in a million years consider buying those stupid crown store training books?


(and the idea that someone would skip buying a new character slot because they can't get easy Rapids - as opposed to all the other better reasons - seems crazy to me.)



full disclosure - I've played since 2016, have 8 alts, have never used Rapids or bought a training book. Regular mount speed + wayshrines has always seemed perfectly fine to me. /shrug

L_Nici

I couldn't care less, take a few keeps and ressources an you have both anyway. I never had an issue to get Vigor till now, so I won't have an issue with Rapid after the swap.

NeillMcAttack

This will make starting a new toon much more painful. I'm with ya.

Radiance

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Are people really so addicted to speed, that they consider this skill "essential"? Or that they'd ever in a million years consider buying those stupid crown store training books?
(and the idea that someone would skip buying a new character slot because they can't get easy Rapids - as opposed to all the other better reasons - seems crazy to me.)
full disclosure - I've played since 2016, have 8 alts, have never used Rapids or bought a training book. Regular mount speed + wayshrines has always seemed perfectly fine to me. /shrug

I don't personally find this that big of a problem but you have Never used Rapids!?
This mindset is what's wrong with the world! "It doesn't affect me, so why should I care?" As if that is a valid justification...

PS! Double spacing doesn't make your argument, or lack thereof, any more sound.

tmbrinks

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Are people really so addicted to speed, that they consider this skill "essential"? Or that they'd ever in a million years consider buying those stupid crown store training books?


(and the idea that someone would skip buying a new character slot because they can't get easy Rapids - as opposed to all the other better reasons - seems crazy to me.)



full disclosure - I've played since 2016, have 8 alts, have never used Rapids or bought a training book. Regular mount speed + wayshrines has always seemed perfectly fine to me. /shrug

just because it's "crazy to you" doesn't mean it's not a legitimate gripe.

Players did what was required of them to get a skill. it's now being taken away from them. Plain and simple.

ArchMikem

It's a good thing I never used Rapid. I never developed this much of a dependency on it that you all are showing.

Strider__Roshin

Stamina players need vigor way more than magicka players need rapids. It's a good change.

Guyle

It's BS, because now 7 or 8 out of the toons I use will lose rapids. Means I won't ever be doing anything with them again besides daily writs. I earned rapids on them, I should not now be losing it.

Kosef

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

Stamina players need vigor way more than magicka players need rapids. It's a good change.

I'm not saying they don't. nor did I. I said move Vigor to the support line as the 1st skill since technically it's a support type skill....or move it to the Fighter's guild line since it's a line that levels quickly.

trackdemon5512

@Kosef I mean it’s already done at this point. Just accept it for now, show how much of a hassle it is live amongst many players, create a petition, then try to get it changed for the fall DLC.

volkeswagon

I second this. Leave rapids were is and moving vigor to fighters guild sounds like an idea.

SydneyGrey

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

Stamina players need vigor way more than magicka players need rapids. It's a good change.

That is 100% ZOS's fault. They should have given decent stamina heals to more of the classes. Blame them.
Most people use Rapids for all their characters. Fewer than half the characters in the game need Vigor, though.
ZOS can solve this issue in a heartbeat just by making Vigor unlock at Assault level 2, or switching it with Siege Shield, or by putting it in the Soul Magic line.

nukk3r

No one had answered my questions in every thread about this change. Why do you need rapids on every toon that you have? Especially the ones with multiple maxed accounts.

Kosef

nukk3r wrote: »

No one had answered my questions in every thread about this change. Why do you need rapids on every toon that you have? Especially the ones with multiple maxed accounts.

Why wouldn't I want it on all my toons is the better question.

nukk3r

Kosef wrote: »

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nukk3r wrote: »

No one had answered my questions in every thread about this change. Why do you need rapids on every toon that you have? Especially the ones with multiple maxed accounts.

Why wouldn't I want it on all my toons is the better question.

This is not the answer.

Hurbster

Because I like to get things done faster. I just tried the Psijic grind on a new character with a slow horse. It was painful.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

Rapid is not essential...

Hurbster

It is as far as I am concerned. It's a big QoL improvement for new characters.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

Kosef wrote: »

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Strider__Roshin wrote: »

Stamina players need vigor way more than magicka players need rapids. It's a good change.

I'm not saying they don't. nor did I. I said move Vigor to the support line as the 1st skill since technically it's a support type skill....or move it to the Fighter's guild line since it's a line that levels quickly.

Rapid should be in the support line more than vigor as vigor as a selfish morf and the other not

UrQuan

nukk3r wrote: »

No one had answered my questions in every thread about this change. Why do you need rapids on every toon that you have? Especially the ones with multiple maxed accounts.

Because, unlike Vigor, it's incredibly useful on every single character. Rapids is the difference between making it to that siege/dragon/dolmen/geyser/harrowstorm/world boss in time to join in and getting there when it's too late and already over. Rapids also makes grabbing skyshards, mages guild books, psijic rifts, etc. vastly less tedious. This should really not be difficult to understand.

Fur_like_snow

This one wishes everyone’s alts the warmest welcome back to Cyrodiil. Here is your complimentary wall repair kit.

Fur_like_snow

nukk3r wrote: »

No one had answered my questions in every thread about this change. Why do you need rapids on every toon that you have? Especially the ones with multiple maxed accounts.

It’s like living in a world with electricity and cars than suddenly those things were take away. It’s not that you can’t live without those things, it’s that you’ve lived in a world with them for so long it’s difficult to imagine one without.

nukk3r

UrQuan wrote: »

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nukk3r wrote: »

No one had answered my questions in every thread about this change. Why do you need rapids on every toon that you have? Especially the ones with multiple maxed accounts.

Because, unlike Vigor, it's incredibly useful on every single character. Rapids is the difference between making it to that siege/dragon/dolmen/geyser/harrowstorm/world boss in time to join in and getting there when it's too late and already over. Rapids also makes grabbing skyshards, mages guild books, psijic rifts, etc. vastly less tedious. This should really not be difficult to understand.

I understand that. But over the course of these discussions there were people with 40+ characters claiming that it's an essential skill for each their toon. I can't imagine them actually playing all of them.
All of my 9 characters have PvP skill lines at least at rank 5 and only 4 of them actually use rapids — 3 are dedicated PvP toons and 1 is my main. The rest just chill in Vivec, doing writs, and they don't need rapids to ride from a wayshrine to the Undaunted enclave. And I don't need to slay dragons on my tank or healer.

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

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nukk3r wrote: »

No one had answered my questions in every thread about this change. Why do you need rapids on every toon that you have? Especially the ones with multiple maxed accounts.

It’s like living in a world with electricity and cars than suddenly those things were take away. It’s not that you can’t live without those things, it’s that you’ve lived in a world with them for so long it’s difficult to imagine one without.

The difference between having and not having "electricity" in this case is mere 98k AP but people react like it's 98 gazillion.

UrQuan

nukk3r wrote: »

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UrQuan wrote: »

nukk3r wrote: »

No one had answered my questions in every thread about this change. Why do you need rapids on every toon that you have? Especially the ones with multiple maxed accounts.

Because, unlike Vigor, it's incredibly useful on every single character. Rapids is the difference between making it to that siege/dragon/dolmen/geyser/harrowstorm/world boss in time to join in and getting there when it's too late and already over. Rapids also makes grabbing skyshards, mages guild books, psijic rifts, etc. vastly less tedious. This should really not be difficult to understand.

I understand that. But over the course of these discussions there were people with 40+ characters claiming that it's an essential skill for each their toon. I can't imagine them actually playing all of them.

Well, you're dead wrong. I've got 54 characters across 3 accounts, they all get played (obviously some far more than others, but 51 of them are level 50 and the other 3 are still getting leveled), and they all use Rapids.

nukk3r

UrQuan wrote: »

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nukk3r wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

nukk3r wrote: »

No one had answered my questions in every thread about this change. Why do you need rapids on every toon that you have? Especially the ones with multiple maxed accounts.

Because, unlike Vigor, it's incredibly useful on every single character. Rapids is the difference between making it to that siege/dragon/dolmen/geyser/harrowstorm/world boss in time to join in and getting there when it's too late and already over. Rapids also makes grabbing skyshards, mages guild books, psijic rifts, etc. vastly less tedious. This should really not be difficult to understand.

I understand that. But over the course of these discussions there were people with 40+ characters claiming that it's an essential skill for each their toon. I can't imagine them actually playing all of them.

Well, you're dead wrong. I've got 54 characters across 3 accounts, they all get played (obviously some far more than others, but 51 of them are level 50 and the other 3 are still getting leveled), and they all use Rapids.

Does every one of them has Undaunted skill line maxed? How do you update gear every patch? Do you have a playtime schedule for each toon? I'm not trying to argue, just curious.

Hapexamendios

How about putting Vigor first on the Assault Skills and switching Rapids over to first on Support and Siege Shield to second on Assault?

AlnilamE

nukk3r wrote: »

No one had answered my questions in every thread about this change. Why do you need rapids on every toon that you have? Especially the ones with multiple maxed accounts.

Because you can get to places faster. Be it the writ drop off area when you are doing writs on all your characters for the jubilee event, the dragons in both Northern and Southern Elsweyr or keeps and resources in Cyrodiil.

It's a pretty handy skill to have.

Hapexamendios wrote: »

How about putting Vigor first on the Assault Skills and switching Rapids over to first on Support and Siege Shield to second on Assault?

Yeah, people have been proposing that in every thread, and it makes sense to me. But there have been crickets from ZOS.

AlnilamE

nukk3r wrote: »

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UrQuan wrote: »

nukk3r wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

nukk3r wrote: »

No one had answered my questions in every thread about this change. Why do you need rapids on every toon that you have? Especially the ones with multiple maxed accounts.

Because, unlike Vigor, it's incredibly useful on every single character. Rapids is the difference between making it to that siege/dragon/dolmen/geyser/harrowstorm/world boss in time to join in and getting there when it's too late and already over. Rapids also makes grabbing skyshards, mages guild books, psijic rifts, etc. vastly less tedious. This should really not be difficult to understand.

I understand that. But over the course of these discussions there were people with 40+ characters claiming that it's an essential skill for each their toon. I can't imagine them actually playing all of them.

Well, you're dead wrong. I've got 54 characters across 3 accounts, they all get played (obviously some far more than others, but 51 of them are level 50 and the other 3 are still getting leveled), and they all use Rapids.

Does every one of them has Undaunted skill line maxed? How do you update gear every patch? Do you have a playtime schedule for each toon? I'm not trying to argue, just curious.

I have 11 characters (plus an Iron Vestige), they all have rapids. They all have Assault/support at 5 now, because I figured it was easier to get that with Rapids now than after it gets taken away.

No, not all my toons have Undaunted at 10, though about half of them do. I'm working on the other ones, but it's not essential for the kind of play they take part in.

No, I don't redo their gear every update because gear doesn't really change that much and if you are not taking them to end game, then they don't need the latest set. They do fine.

mairwen85

Imagine having met the requirements for something, to put in the work and earn it, and then be told that you have to do more of the same to get what you already had. Seems a recurrent theme since greymoor release.

I'm loving the 2020 model of the game...

CristiC

Old ideea: When a skill line is available, the user should have the ability to choose which skill to upgrade first. That skill then moves to the first spot of the skill line, then what originally 1st then moves to the 2nd position, the 2nd moves to 3rd etc. Yes, there is a drawback to this and there should be one to compensate.