The only thing you could do to improve the separation of church and state stance on PVP (which is as it should be) would be making abilities and sets do different things in PVP zones vs. PVE content so that you could balance the two separately, allowing greater freedom and creativity in both unique aspects of gameplay without changes to one inevitably hurting the other.
WhyMustItBe wrote: »After reading about Ashes of Creation being YET ANOTHER game with great potential that instead opted to throw it all away to force PVP even to the extreme that guilds of griefers get to decide what cities will even exist in the game, and what they look like, and also Amazon's new game delayed until 2021 partially due to feedback on THEIR forced PVP system, it is stunning to see so many developers failing or outright refusing to learn the lessons of history and trashing the potential revenue of their own games!
It is mind boggling to the point of madness, which makes me all the more grateful for ESO's existence!
Imagine going back to WoW to enjoy playing through the Blood Elf starter zone for nostalgia's sake, only to find it completely destroyed and remade with spiked orc buildings and undead green slime. That is the sort of Game Ashes of Creation devs decided to make. A game where the hardcore PVP crowd not only goes around ruining everyone else's questing and gameplay with crafter ganking and hub camping like Black Desert, but actually gets to prevent other players from even enjoying the architecture they prefer, or quest hubs they enjoy and identify with, unless they engage in a hostile, rage-inducing hyper-aggressive form of gameplay they simply LOATH.
[snip]
This completely undermines the IDENTITY of the game, where you have classic zones and sites you know and love with memories attached as it devolves rapidly into a world that looks only like what the hardcore PVP crowd wants, and we all know, there are legions of people who for whatever reason make it their sole purpose in life to destroy things they know other people enjoy, so there is every reason to believe it will stay that way.
What a travesty the gaming industry has become, catering to the type of people who just like to screw over other people for kicks. Next thing we'll be selling dongles you plug into your USB port as a supplement to games that allow other players to actively kick you in the balls any time you log in. I swear the gaming industry has lost it's damn mind!
Thanks for existing, ESO! The only thing you could do to improve the separation of church and state stance on PVP (which is as it should be) would be making abilities and sets do different things in PVP zones vs. PVE content so that you could balance the two separately, allowing greater freedom and creativity in both unique aspects of gameplay without changes to one inevitably hurting the other.
WhyMustItBe wrote: »After reading about Ashes of Creation being YET ANOTHER game with great potential that instead opted to throw it all away to force PVP even to the extreme that guilds of griefers get to decide what cities will even exist in the game, and what they look like
Exactly - game is for you, not you for a game. It's important rule to have healthy gaming experienceAnd games are supposed to be fun, not like a second job.
TequilaFire wrote: »All I know is every morning I wake up an watch the news and thank my lucky stars we can still play video games at least for now.
This is the kind of forum thread I couldn't disagree with more.
The premise that there are "PvErs", and then the "toxic PvPers" is a false one, when in reality there are plenty of people who are interested in both PvE & PvP and want to have them intertwined for dynamic, meaningful PvX gameplay.
WhyMustItBe wrote: »This is the kind of forum thread I couldn't disagree with more.
The premise that there are "PvErs", and then the "toxic PvPers" is a false one, when in reality there are plenty of people who are interested in both PvE & PvP and want to have them intertwined for dynamic, meaningful PvX gameplay.
I'm sorry if you misunderstood, but this interpretation of the OP could not be farther from the truth.
This thread is not about PVE vs. PVP. That is just how lots of people have been conditioned to view any thread about the topic. I am 100% in favor of PVP in games. This thread is about why not FORCING PVP and allowing people to CHOOSE whether they must engage in PVP in order to experience game content is a GOOD thing.
So long as games allow you to not flag for PVP when doing all available content, but have the OPTION for PVP, then I am for it.
The problem is one of developer naiveté on the part of most of the game industry. It seems they want to believe that we live in a perfect world where people will never grief or camp quest hubs or gank crafters or intentionally go out of their way to prevent other players from enjoying the game content, driving away customers, if they force no-choice PVP into the world without designated servers or instances for people who don't want that.
This is sadly NOT the way many (not all) have been proven to act in REALITY, and it only takes a few bad apples to spoil the game for everyone. It is a nice dream though.
In reality many people CANNOT control their impulses. They absolutely DO make it their goal in life to grief other players if given the chance. No, not all people. In fact most PVP players are decent human beings who just want to have fun in the game like everyone else.
HOWEVER, as you see with Black Desert and other forced-PVP games, there are enough players that grief, gank, and go out of their way to hurt other players and keep them from enjoying content that it spoils the game for everyone. Now we have developers making that behavior a core mechanic of the game, and they wonder why they hit maintenance mode long before the earning levels of competing games that have the sense to give players CHOICE.
That is why this thread is merely pointing out that keeping PVP an OPTION in MMOs where you either CHOOSE to flag for PVP mode, roll on a PVP server, or opt to enter PVP instanced zones, is the ONLY way to run a successful multiplayer game, specifically of the RPG genre.
Otherwise we have this constant "us vs. them" PVE vs. PVP hostility that only ruins the community and the game for everyone.
I hope that helps to clarify my position of NOT being "anti-PVP."
This is the kind of forum thread I couldn't disagree with more.
The premise that there are "PvErs", and then the "toxic PvPers" is a false one, when in reality there are plenty of people who are interested in both PvE & PvP and want to have them intertwined for dynamic, meaningful PvX gameplay.
You don't want to engage in PvP? Go do a dungeon, go play a single player (or co-op) RPG - plenty of options out there that provide a better experience in watching butterflies or whatever you do in game.
All I can say from the POV of someone who has done all the questing & "enjoying the architecture" 19 times is that it gets pretty damn boring after the first playthrough, as there's no PvP happening during that level up process or anything that'd make it different from the last playthrough.
There's a reason ESO has one of the worst player retention rates in the industry.
16 Million players was mentioned in QuakeCon, how many can we find in battlegrounds? The same 30-40 names.
Cyrodiil is empty half the time, and lagging the other half with less population than it used to have back in the days, holding maximum 500 concurrent players per campaign at locked pop as far as I know. We used to have 30 campaigns with max cap of 2000 players, we're down to 3 that are literally empty half the time.
The last time we got anything new for PvP was Morrowind, 3 years ago, which introduced the extremely flawed BG system that has only lost features ever since it was added.
Last time a new BG map was added was February 2019. We've had the exact same sets as BG rewards since the introduction of Battlegrounds. These sets get instantly vendored as they're worth nothing.
Ability to play Battlegrounds with friends was removed, and the game is still missing Ranked/Unranked and many other staple features almost every other MMO has.
2v2/3v3 Arenas, another staple feature most MMOs have off the box are also still missing.
Why? Because of entitlement of players who think 99% of the game should be tailored for them.
Don't be surprised when lots of players (especially streamers) who appreciate ESO for its combat system leave for greener pastures the moment a MMO launches that cares more about its PvP player base than Zenimax.
When every PvX player is gone and dungeon queues suddenly start taking hours, we'll see how you feel about this game and its lacking features.
This is the kind of forum thread I couldn't disagree with more.
The premise that there are "PvErs", and then the "toxic PvPers" is a false one, when in reality there are plenty of people who are interested in both PvE & PvP and want to have them intertwined for dynamic, meaningful PvX gameplay.
You don't want to engage in PvP? Go do a dungeon, go play a single player (or co-op) RPG - plenty of options out there that provide a better experience in watching butterflies or whatever you do in game.
All I can say from the POV of someone who has done all the questing & "enjoying the architecture" 19 times is that it gets pretty damn boring after the first playthrough, as there's no PvP happening during that level up process or anything that'd make it different from the last playthrough.
There's a reason ESO has one of the worst player retention rates in the industry.
16 Million players was mentioned in QuakeCon, how many can we find in battlegrounds? The same 30-40 names.
Cyrodiil is empty half the time, and lagging the other half with less population than it used to have back in the days, holding maximum 500 concurrent players per campaign at locked pop as far as I know. We used to have 30 campaigns with max cap of 2000 players, we're down to 3 that are literally empty half the time.
The last time we got anything new for PvP was Morrowind, 3 years ago, which introduced the extremely flawed BG system that has only lost features ever since it was added.
Last time a new BG map was added was February 2019. We've had the exact same sets as BG rewards since the introduction of Battlegrounds. These sets get instantly vendored as they're worth nothing.
Ability to play Battlegrounds with friends was removed, and the game is still missing Ranked/Unranked and many other staple features almost every other MMO has.
2v2/3v3 Arenas, another staple feature most MMOs have off the box are also still missing.
Why? Because of entitlement of players who think 99% of the game should be tailored for them.
Don't be surprised when lots of players (especially streamers) who appreciate ESO for its combat system leave for greener pastures the moment a MMO launches that cares more about its PvP player base than Zenimax.
When every PvX player is gone and dungeon queues suddenly start taking hours, we'll see how you feel about this game and its lacking features.
madarame_77 wrote: »That's why I left Eve Online, because there everything that is player owned can be destroyed by other players. So you had to be able to constantly log in (sometimes at night) to protect your territory/or attack enemy territory. Imagine setting your alarm clock at 3.00 because it's the timer when enemy keepstar citadel becomes vunerable. It became a second job (night job) after a while and not fun anymore. And games are supposed to be fun, not like a second job. Don't think I ever go back there.