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Returned to try Necro and Vampire
Uberkull
✭✭✭✭✭
Can someone help me understand why the ‘new’ Vampire skills are so bad? I decided to come back after sometime, with 730cp so I know I can level fast and efficient. So I dive into Necro...have yet to find a solid rotation I like...but that will come once I have all the skills available. BUT....
The Vampire skills...what? Explain to me where they get good?
I have the Ultimate Blood Scion morphed to Swarming...this is pretty weak for a Ultimate?
Arterial Burst eviscerate...slow and boring, and really not that impactful. Maybe if it was a cleave?
Mesmerize - a stun that works only once on mobs then they seem immune?
The other skills...why even bother.
Someone please tell what i benefit from in Vamp before i just get rid of it...
The Vampire skills...what? Explain to me where they get good?
I have the Ultimate Blood Scion morphed to Swarming...this is pretty weak for a Ultimate?
Arterial Burst eviscerate...slow and boring, and really not that impactful. Maybe if it was a cleave?
Mesmerize - a stun that works only once on mobs then they seem immune?
The other skills...why even bother.
Someone please tell what i benefit from in Vamp before i just get rid of it...
▬ஜ Seeds of War, Piles of Skulls ஜ▬
▬▬▬ஜ twitch.tv/uberkull ஜ▬▬▬
▬▬▬ஜ twitch.tv/uberkull ஜ▬▬▬
4
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WhyMustItBe✭✭✭✭✭
✭Because instead of designing a unique and fully fleshed-out sub-class option people could spec into that would improve their character's power equivalent to other sources of power, they opted to listen to the vocal minority that repeat the same dogma that "vampire must have overwhelming weakness" and instead created a half-baked attempt to razzle-dazzle people into believing it was worth playing while overall you are basically receiving an elaborate and illusory self debuff for choosing it.
ESO is an MMO not a single player TES game. People apparently don't comprehend that fact.
All the arguments about situational strengths are made from a vacuum of what COULD be and what is THEORETICALLY possible. In practical every day applications like dungeons and trials it is a net loss, especially with the normal ability cost increase even at stage 1. The new nerfs making the spell power ability continue to scale the health cost without end while capping the spell power gain you get for it was really the last straw for me. The new skills are really only good for the 75% damage reduction toggle of mist form which is a good change, and the RP solo fun of being a sparkle vampire but for me everything else about it is a loss.
The whole "stare at the health bar" playstyle they were shooting for is about the most un-fun thing I have ever played.
EDIT: I believe even MORE vampire nerfs are coming on the PTS. Blood for Blood (the spammable that costs health) I want to say is getting nerfed so NOTHING can heal you for a time after using it, where it was that only OTHERS couldn't heal you. Someone else can maybe muster the energy to confirm that and why ZOS feels this hot mess needs MORE nerfs and complete redesigns.
Edited by WhyMustItBe on August 7, 2020 7:37PM16 -
scorpius2k1✭✭✭✭✭
✭Can someone help me understand why the ‘new’ Vampire skills are so bad? I decided to come back after sometime, with 730cp so I know I can level fast and efficient. So I dive into Necro...have yet to find a solid rotation I like...but that will come once I have all the skills available. BUT....
The Vampire skills...what? Explain to me where they get good?
I have the Ultimate Blood Scion morphed to Swarming...this is pretty weak for a Ultimate?
Arterial Burst eviscerate...slow and boring, and really not that impactful. Maybe if it was a cleave?
Mesmerize - a stun that works only once on mobs then they seem immune?
The other skills...why even bother.
Someone please tell what i benefit from in Vamp before i just get rid of it...
I've come to the same conclusion, there isn't much benefit at all. Supposedly the main spammable, blood for blood is getting a big nerf hammer so that puts yet another "nail in the coffin". The revamping of the vampire seems amazing on paper but in the actual game it's not really all that fun or rewarding to actually use in any real content. In fact, it seems like you are constantly being punished by being one instead. I thought it was cool to sprint at stage 4 because I turned into a mist cloud, and it's useful in some areas or for the "oh crap" moments but then again, stage 4 has some major penalties. The entire sent of vamp skills I just couldn't make work for any of my builds. The passives are "okay" but mostly "meh". I honestly only have the vamp now because I like how the stage 1 skin looks on some of my toons lmfao.
Maybe if there is a 3rd time charm to revamp the vamp it will be great, but so far being one isn't worth it at all.🌎 PC/NA
🐧 Linux (Arch)
🧑💻 ESO Addon Dev
⚔️ Stamplar | Magplar | Stamcro | Magsorc | Magcro Healer2 -
josiahva✭✭✭✭✭
✭Can someone help me understand why the ‘new’ Vampire skills are so bad? I decided to come back after sometime, with 730cp so I know I can level fast and efficient. So I dive into Necro...have yet to find a solid rotation I like...but that will come once I have all the skills available. BUT....
The Vampire skills...what? Explain to me where they get good?
I have the Ultimate Blood Scion morphed to Swarming...this is pretty weak for a Ultimate?
Arterial Burst eviscerate...slow and boring, and really not that impactful. Maybe if it was a cleave?
Mesmerize - a stun that works only once on mobs then they seem immune?
The other skills...why even bother.
Someone please tell what i benefit from in Vamp before i just get rid of it...
Blood for Blood....and really only because it helps with sustain...but after they nerf it this coming patch, it too will be worthless.
Mesmerize is actually nice if you are a tank and have everything taunted so they are all facing you...gives a nice CC to classes that have sub-par CC.
I myself only kept vampire on my tank for the reason I got it to begin with...the undeath passive, but I certainly wont ever be more than stage 10 -
SlimeBro1✭✭✭✭Can someone help me understand why the ‘new’ Vampire skills are so bad? I decided to come back after sometime, with 730cp so I know I can level fast and efficient. So I dive into Necro...have yet to find a solid rotation I like...but that will come once I have all the skills available. BUT....
The Vampire skills...what? Explain to me where they get good?
I have the Ultimate Blood Scion morphed to Swarming...this is pretty weak for a Ultimate?
Arterial Burst eviscerate...slow and boring, and really not that impactful. Maybe if it was a cleave?
Mesmerize - a stun that works only once on mobs then they seem immune?
The other skills...why even bother.
Someone please tell what i benefit from in Vamp before i just get rid of it...
Oh, absolutely nothing. Vampire is kinda horrid on necro unless you plan on using BfB, which is going to be nerfed out of existence next patch.
The ultimate is a slightly better but re-skin of the bone goliath.
If you came back for the vampire rework, you will be horrifically disappointed. I also recommend not getting greymoor if the current state of vampire irks you too because the NPC vamps in that expansion for whatever reason have better designed and useful abilities over us as players. They can summon swarms of bats that follow players, turn into a cloud of bats for gap closing, use various blood magic and night magic spells. What do we get? We're basically a bloodfiend.
Also I really hope you didn't come back expecting to be a necromancer like the NPCs either. You know, the normie necros that have been in the game since day 1? Yeah for some reason necromancer isn't the "summoner" class. Instead you have 2 "kinda not really summons" and a bunch of other spells. You cannot raise a zombie or skeletal warrior to fight for you and the mage/ghost are basically advanced dots since they don't have hit boxes nor do they require any sort of corpse to be raised.
You might be asking yourself: "Wait, why does necromancer have this huge new corpse mechanic if none of the summons get raised from them?" And that is where I'd tell you it's ZOS's A+ Game Design. Yeah you know that one thing necromancers do? Let's add a corpse mechanic and not give the player to raise corpses.
Don't play vampire if you're looking to be a vampire and don't play necromancer unless you want to be more of a "death knight" over magic-summoner.9 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Can someone help me understand why the ‘new’ Vampire skills are so bad? I decided to come back after sometime, with 730cp so I know I can level fast and efficient. So I dive into Necro...have yet to find a solid rotation I like...but that will come once I have all the skills available. BUT....
The Vampire skills...what? Explain to me where they get good?
I have the Ultimate Blood Scion morphed to Swarming...this is pretty weak for a Ultimate?
Arterial Burst eviscerate...slow and boring, and really not that impactful. Maybe if it was a cleave?
Mesmerize - a stun that works only once on mobs then they seem immune?
The other skills...why even bother.
Someone please tell what i benefit from in Vamp before i just get rid of it...
Drain is a good independent heal for PvE because it doesn't depend on magicka or stamina. What it does is give every class access to a health-based heal - which can be useful for certain builds (like a Templar tank for example). I'm not sure how useful it is on Necromancer as I've never played one.
Mist Form works great - especially in PvP - as either a defensive or escape mechanism and is greatly improved over the older version because it's cheaper and a toggle now.
Not sure why you say the ultimate is weak. Swarming Scion seems pretty powerful to me and is easily one my favorite ultimate abilities. It is pricey though, I'll give you that.
Mesmerize is a cheap stun. You can use it more than once on an enemy - but you will have to wait I would guess around 12 seconds after the effect ends to use it again. Like all stuns - it's usefulness is situational. But I don't see why the skill is especially bad. It's just a stun and is what it is.
As far as frenzy and eviscerate, blood for blood... etc. I haven't experimented with those much so I can't really comment directly - but what little I have used them I won't lie, they do seem difficult to use effectively. Though I personally know several players who are very good with them and do impressive damage. So I can't say they suck. Though this may be changing after it gets nerfed in a future update.
I can understand that you aren't impressed with the new skills. But objectively speaking - they are an improvement over the old skill line. It's also very nice how you can choose which stage you want to play at now and stay there. Honestly: that change alone would have been enough to make me a happy camper because I hated having to advance to stage 4 every time I wanted to regularly use my vampire abilities.
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Uberkull✭✭✭✭✭Wow....thanks for the detailed feedback from those that posted.
This statement resonated with me...WhyMustItBe wrote: »All the arguments about situational strengths are made from a vacuum of what COULD be and what is THEORETICALLY possible. In practical every day applications like dungeons and trials it is a net loss, especially with the normal ability cost increase even at stage 1.
It’s exactly how I felt leveling and thinking end game, big picture for my character. This vamp skill line isn't going to work in REAL end-game content.
Well....where’s that priest npc....get rid of this garrrbagge.
▬ஜ Seeds of War, Piles of Skulls ஜ▬
▬▬▬ஜ twitch.tv/uberkull ஜ▬▬▬5 -
Fur_like_snow✭✭✭✭✭
✭They turned vampire into a blood fiend simulator. Blood fiends are those weak enemies you see frequently around graveyards that attack the player in packs. Instead of becoming stronger as you feed blood is like a drug/poison that destroys your body(increased damage from sources) and mind(increased cost to known spells). Your trade mark passive is running away and hiding.
The player vampire lacks sound/visual impact from their skills when compared to the enemy vampire scions we see in the Greymore expansion who get unique and visually appealing animations for their skills. The player vampire has few skills worth slotting some are even are self destructive or downright suicidal by nature. The one skill(blood for blood) that saw a lot of usage in end game trials is getting nerfed next patch so rip to that one.
Vampire has some application in PvP best paired with a night blade.Edited by Fur_like_snow on August 7, 2020 9:43PM5 -
SlimeBro1✭✭✭✭Can someone help me understand why the ‘new’ Vampire skills are so bad? I decided to come back after sometime, with 730cp so I know I can level fast and efficient. So I dive into Necro...have yet to find a solid rotation I like...but that will come once I have all the skills available. BUT....
The Vampire skills...what? Explain to me where they get good?
I have the Ultimate Blood Scion morphed to Swarming...this is pretty weak for a Ultimate?
Arterial Burst eviscerate...slow and boring, and really not that impactful. Maybe if it was a cleave?
Mesmerize - a stun that works only once on mobs then they seem immune?
The other skills...why even bother.
Someone please tell what i benefit from in Vamp before i just get rid of it...
Drain is a good independent heal for PvE because it doesn't depend on magicka or stamina. What it does is give every class access to a health-based heal - which can be useful for certain builds (like a Templar tank for example). I'm not sure how useful it is on Necromancer as I've never played one.
Mist Form works great - especially in PvP - as either a defensive or escape mechanism and is greatly improved over the older version because it's cheaper and a toggle now.
Not sure why you say the ultimate is weak. Swarming Scion seems pretty powerful to me and is easily one my favorite ultimate abilities. It is pricey though, I'll give you that.
Mesmerize is a cheap stun. You can use it more than once on an enemy - but you will have to wait I would guess around 12 seconds after the effect ends to use it again. Like all stuns - it's usefulness is situational. But I don't see why the skill is especially bad. It's just a stun and is what it is.
As far as frenzy and eviscerate, blood for blood... etc. I haven't experimented with those much so I can't really comment directly - but what little I have used them I won't lie, they do seem difficult to use effectively. Though I personally know several players who are very good with them and do impressive damage. So I can't say they suck. Though this may be changing after it gets nerfed in a future update.
I can understand that you aren't impressed with the new skills. But objectively speaking - they are an improvement over the old skill line. It's also very nice how you can choose which stage you want to play at now and stay there. Honestly: that change alone would have been enough to make me a happy camper because I hated having to advance to stage 4 every time I wanted to regularly use my vampire abilities.
[snip]
Drain is a trash heal in PvE that is outweighed by literally any class heal and can be interrupted via CC. Any class heal with heal more than it without needing to be channeled for 3 seconds. You will be laughed at if you try to use this skill in vet dungeons probably. Overland it is ok, but why not use any other heal?
Mist form is a good PvP skill, not good in PvE at all. Blood Mist is not worth slotting.
Mesmerize is trash because every class has access to a stun that does more than just stun. If you are a necromancer I recommend Ghostly Grasp (once this next patch hits this skill will have a slow, snare, and stun.) or Bone Totem. Both apply debuffs/buffs and do other things besides just CC. Mesmerize is not worth slotting.
Swarming Scion is a pretty alright ultimate, but costs way too much and is over all very weak compared to other ultimates for the cost. Gravelord's ult, for instance, is way better. If you want the survivability from Blood Scion, just take Bone Goliath.
Just because some people alter their whole builds around Blood Frenzy/BfB doesn't mean they are good or worth taking. Blood frenzy is honestly quite meh and you will find it very hard to use unless you build specifically for it. Which even then you'd be better off playing an easier build that is better to manage and deals more damage.
Objectively speaking, it is an improvement over the old skill line, but that doesn't make current vampire good design.
[snip]
[Edited to remove Baiting]Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on August 8, 2020 5:43PM4 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Can someone help me understand why the ‘new’ Vampire skills are so bad? I decided to come back after sometime, with 730cp so I know I can level fast and efficient. So I dive into Necro...have yet to find a solid rotation I like...but that will come once I have all the skills available. BUT....
The Vampire skills...what? Explain to me where they get good?
I have the Ultimate Blood Scion morphed to Swarming...this is pretty weak for a Ultimate?
Arterial Burst eviscerate...slow and boring, and really not that impactful. Maybe if it was a cleave?
Mesmerize - a stun that works only once on mobs then they seem immune?
The other skills...why even bother.
Someone please tell what i benefit from in Vamp before i just get rid of it...
Drain is a good independent heal for PvE because it doesn't depend on magicka or stamina. What it does is give every class access to a health-based heal - which can be useful for certain builds (like a Templar tank for example). I'm not sure how useful it is on Necromancer as I've never played one.
Mist Form works great - especially in PvP - as either a defensive or escape mechanism and is greatly improved over the older version because it's cheaper and a toggle now.
Not sure why you say the ultimate is weak. Swarming Scion seems pretty powerful to me and is easily one my favorite ultimate abilities. It is pricey though, I'll give you that.
Mesmerize is a cheap stun. You can use it more than once on an enemy - but you will have to wait I would guess around 12 seconds after the effect ends to use it again. Like all stuns - it's usefulness is situational. But I don't see why the skill is especially bad. It's just a stun and is what it is.
As far as frenzy and eviscerate, blood for blood... etc. I haven't experimented with those much so I can't really comment directly - but what little I have used them I won't lie, they do seem difficult to use effectively. Though I personally know several players who are very good with them and do impressive damage. So I can't say they suck. Though this may be changing after it gets nerfed in a future update.
I can understand that you aren't impressed with the new skills. But objectively speaking - they are an improvement over the old skill line. It's also very nice how you can choose which stage you want to play at now and stay there. Honestly: that change alone would have been enough to make me a happy camper because I hated having to advance to stage 4 every time I wanted to regularly use my vampire abilities.
[snip]
Drain is a trash heal in PvE that is outweighed by literally any class heal and can be interrupted via CC. Any class heal with heal more than it without needing to be channeled for 3 seconds. You will be laughed at if you try to use this skill in vet dungeons probably. Overland it is ok, but why not use any other heal?
Mist form is a good PvP skill, not good in PvE at all. Blood Mist is not worth slotting.
Mesmerize is trash because every class has access to a stun that does more than just stun. If you are a necromancer I recommend Ghostly Grasp (once this next patch hits this skill will have a slow, snare, and stun.) or Bone Totem. Both apply debuffs/buffs and do other things besides just CC. Mesmerize is not worth slotting.
Swarming Scion is a pretty alright ultimate, but costs way too much and is over all very weak compared to other ultimates for the cost. Gravelord's ult, for instance, is way better. If you want the survivability from Blood Scion, just take Bone Goliath.
Just because some people alter their whole builds around Blood Frenzy/BfB doesn't mean they are good or worth taking. Blood frenzy is honestly quite meh and you will find it very hard to use unless you build specifically for it. Which even then you'd be better off playing an easier build that is better to manage and deals more damage.
Objectively speaking, it is an improvement over the old skill line, but that doesn't make current vampire good design.
[snip]
Would you like to duel me? Because I would like to show you some of those vampire skills you say aren't worth slotting.
You also accused me of spreading "misinformation". Which wasn't very nice. There wasn't a shred of misinformation in my post. Just because you disagree with someone that doesn't make it misinformation. You are confusing a difference of opinion with misinformation.
So let's set up a duel. Because I'm not even going to argue this. I rather just show you then we can see whose statements should be taken with a grain of salt.Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on August 8, 2020 5:43PM1 -
Nova_J✭✭✭✭Can someone help me understand why the ‘new’ Vampire skills are so bad? I decided to come back after sometime, with 730cp so I know I can level fast and efficient. So I dive into Necro...have yet to find a solid rotation I like...but that will come once I have all the skills available. BUT....
The Vampire skills...what? Explain to me where they get good?
I have the Ultimate Blood Scion morphed to Swarming...this is pretty weak for a Ultimate?
Arterial Burst eviscerate...slow and boring, and really not that impactful. Maybe if it was a cleave?
Mesmerize - a stun that works only once on mobs then they seem immune?
The other skills...why even bother.
Someone please tell what i benefit from in Vamp before i just get rid of it...
Drain is a good independent heal for PvE because it doesn't depend on magicka or stamina. What it does is give every class access to a health-based heal - which can be useful for certain builds (like a Templar tank for example). I'm not sure how useful it is on Necromancer as I've never played one.
Mist Form works great - especially in PvP - as either a defensive or escape mechanism and is greatly improved over the older version because it's cheaper and a toggle now.
Not sure why you say the ultimate is weak. Swarming Scion seems pretty powerful to me and is easily one my favorite ultimate abilities. It is pricey though, I'll give you that.
Mesmerize is a cheap stun. You can use it more than once on an enemy - but you will have to wait I would guess around 12 seconds after the effect ends to use it again. Like all stuns - it's usefulness is situational. But I don't see why the skill is especially bad. It's just a stun and is what it is.
As far as frenzy and eviscerate, blood for blood... etc. I haven't experimented with those much so I can't really comment directly - but what little I have used them I won't lie, they do seem difficult to use effectively. Though I personally know several players who are very good with them and do impressive damage. So I can't say they suck. Though this may be changing after it gets nerfed in a future update.
I can understand that you aren't impressed with the new skills. But objectively speaking - they are an improvement over the old skill line. It's also very nice how you can choose which stage you want to play at now and stay there. Honestly: that change alone would have been enough to make me a happy camper because I hated having to advance to stage 4 every time I wanted to regularly use my vampire abilities.
[snip]
Drain is a trash heal in PvE that is outweighed by literally any class heal and can be interrupted via CC. Any class heal with heal more than it without needing to be channeled for 3 seconds. You will be laughed at if you try to use this skill in vet dungeons probably. Overland it is ok, but why not use any other heal?
Mist form is a good PvP skill, not good in PvE at all. Blood Mist is not worth slotting.
Mesmerize is trash because every class has access to a stun that does more than just stun. If you are a necromancer I recommend Ghostly Grasp (once this next patch hits this skill will have a slow, snare, and stun.) or Bone Totem. Both apply debuffs/buffs and do other things besides just CC. Mesmerize is not worth slotting.
Swarming Scion is a pretty alright ultimate, but costs way too much and is over all very weak compared to other ultimates for the cost. Gravelord's ult, for instance, is way better. If you want the survivability from Blood Scion, just take Bone Goliath.
Just because some people alter their whole builds around Blood Frenzy/BfB doesn't mean they are good or worth taking. Blood frenzy is honestly quite meh and you will find it very hard to use unless you build specifically for it. Which even then you'd be better off playing an easier build that is better to manage and deals more damage.
Objectively speaking, it is an improvement over the old skill line, but that doesn't make current vampire good design.
[snip]
Would you like to duel me? Because I would like to show you some of those vampire skills you say aren't worth slotting.
You also accused me of spreading "misinformation". Which wasn't very nice. There wasn't a shred of misinformation in my post. Just because you disagree with someone that doesn't make it misinformation. You are confusing a difference of opinion with misinformation.
So let's set up a duel. Because I'm not even going to argue this. I rather just show you then we can see whose statements should be taken with a grain of salt.
@Jeremy
I'm still trying to figure out what type of content you are tanking in if you are using drain as your main heal. The harder content in the game alot of times requires you to block AND burst heal at the same time. You try doing that with drain and it's a wipe. How are you successfully tanking endgame with that as your heal?
And dont mind him lol he's just a little passionate. 😂😂Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on August 8, 2020 5:44PM1 -
Nova_J✭✭✭✭Vamp is ideally only decent for overland content (the same content you can run literally anything in). It lacks synergy within it's own skills and lacks group utility. Necro has much better stuns than mesmerize, bone totem outclasses it by 10 miles.
The ult is okay, but you can really just use bone goliath and have the same effect, plus goliath will allow you to use bloodfrenzy easier. You can keep simmering frenzy active the entire transformation and with necro ult regen you can have very high uptime.
Mist isn't worth it in pve, might as well run a purge.
Arterial burst isnt that useful on necros because they already have high crit due to the passives, blood frenzy is the better option but it's getting nerfed for group content so....at this point idek what I'd use it for except overland.
Vampiric drain.......just no. Necros dont need this skill and have MUCH better alternatives.Edited by Nova_J on August 8, 2020 3:12AM3 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Can someone help me understand why the ‘new’ Vampire skills are so bad? I decided to come back after sometime, with 730cp so I know I can level fast and efficient. So I dive into Necro...have yet to find a solid rotation I like...but that will come once I have all the skills available. BUT....
The Vampire skills...what? Explain to me where they get good?
I have the Ultimate Blood Scion morphed to Swarming...this is pretty weak for a Ultimate?
Arterial Burst eviscerate...slow and boring, and really not that impactful. Maybe if it was a cleave?
Mesmerize - a stun that works only once on mobs then they seem immune?
The other skills...why even bother.
Someone please tell what i benefit from in Vamp before i just get rid of it...
Drain is a good independent heal for PvE because it doesn't depend on magicka or stamina. What it does is give every class access to a health-based heal - which can be useful for certain builds (like a Templar tank for example). I'm not sure how useful it is on Necromancer as I've never played one.
Mist Form works great - especially in PvP - as either a defensive or escape mechanism and is greatly improved over the older version because it's cheaper and a toggle now.
Not sure why you say the ultimate is weak. Swarming Scion seems pretty powerful to me and is easily one my favorite ultimate abilities. It is pricey though, I'll give you that.
Mesmerize is a cheap stun. You can use it more than once on an enemy - but you will have to wait I would guess around 12 seconds after the effect ends to use it again. Like all stuns - it's usefulness is situational. But I don't see why the skill is especially bad. It's just a stun and is what it is.
As far as frenzy and eviscerate, blood for blood... etc. I haven't experimented with those much so I can't really comment directly - but what little I have used them I won't lie, they do seem difficult to use effectively. Though I personally know several players who are very good with them and do impressive damage. So I can't say they suck. Though this may be changing after it gets nerfed in a future update.
I can understand that you aren't impressed with the new skills. But objectively speaking - they are an improvement over the old skill line. It's also very nice how you can choose which stage you want to play at now and stay there. Honestly: that change alone would have been enough to make me a happy camper because I hated having to advance to stage 4 every time I wanted to regularly use my vampire abilities.
[snip]
Drain is a trash heal in PvE that is outweighed by literally any class heal and can be interrupted via CC. Any class heal with heal more than it without needing to be channeled for 3 seconds. You will be laughed at if you try to use this skill in vet dungeons probably. Overland it is ok, but why not use any other heal?
Mist form is a good PvP skill, not good in PvE at all. Blood Mist is not worth slotting.
Mesmerize is trash because every class has access to a stun that does more than just stun. If you are a necromancer I recommend Ghostly Grasp (once this next patch hits this skill will have a slow, snare, and stun.) or Bone Totem. Both apply debuffs/buffs and do other things besides just CC. Mesmerize is not worth slotting.
Swarming Scion is a pretty alright ultimate, but costs way too much and is over all very weak compared to other ultimates for the cost. Gravelord's ult, for instance, is way better. If you want the survivability from Blood Scion, just take Bone Goliath.
Just because some people alter their whole builds around Blood Frenzy/BfB doesn't mean they are good or worth taking. Blood frenzy is honestly quite meh and you will find it very hard to use unless you build specifically for it. Which even then you'd be better off playing an easier build that is better to manage and deals more damage.
Objectively speaking, it is an improvement over the old skill line, but that doesn't make current vampire good design.
[snip]
Would you like to duel me? Because I would like to show you some of those vampire skills you say aren't worth slotting.
You also accused me of spreading "misinformation". Which wasn't very nice. There wasn't a shred of misinformation in my post. Just because you disagree with someone that doesn't make it misinformation. You are confusing a difference of opinion with misinformation.
So let's set up a duel. Because I'm not even going to argue this. I rather just show you then we can see whose statements should be taken with a grain of salt.
@Jeremy
I'm still trying to figure out what type of content you are tanking in if you are using drain as your main heal. The harder content in the game alot of times requires you to block AND burst heal at the same time. You try doing that with drain and it's a wipe. How are you successfully tanking endgame with that as your heal?
And dont mind him lol he's just a little passionate. 😂😂
It wouldn't be useful in a fight that requires you to keep block up 24/7. But I use drain to restore my life in Veteran DLC content all the time. I'm not saying it's the best heal in the game or ideal in every situation. But it's still a good heal to have if you don't invest into magicka and stamina. My Templar health build character for example uses it frequently and it's the best thing I have for getting my health back up. Saves my butt a lot.
Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on August 8, 2020 5:45PM0 -
SlimeBro1✭✭✭✭Can someone help me understand why the ‘new’ Vampire skills are so bad? I decided to come back after sometime, with 730cp so I know I can level fast and efficient. So I dive into Necro...have yet to find a solid rotation I like...but that will come once I have all the skills available. BUT....
The Vampire skills...what? Explain to me where they get good?
I have the Ultimate Blood Scion morphed to Swarming...this is pretty weak for a Ultimate?
Arterial Burst eviscerate...slow and boring, and really not that impactful. Maybe if it was a cleave?
Mesmerize - a stun that works only once on mobs then they seem immune?
The other skills...why even bother.
Someone please tell what i benefit from in Vamp before i just get rid of it...
Drain is a good independent heal for PvE because it doesn't depend on magicka or stamina. What it does is give every class access to a health-based heal - which can be useful for certain builds (like a Templar tank for example). I'm not sure how useful it is on Necromancer as I've never played one.
Mist Form works great - especially in PvP - as either a defensive or escape mechanism and is greatly improved over the older version because it's cheaper and a toggle now.
Not sure why you say the ultimate is weak. Swarming Scion seems pretty powerful to me and is easily one my favorite ultimate abilities. It is pricey though, I'll give you that.
Mesmerize is a cheap stun. You can use it more than once on an enemy - but you will have to wait I would guess around 12 seconds after the effect ends to use it again. Like all stuns - it's usefulness is situational. But I don't see why the skill is especially bad. It's just a stun and is what it is.
As far as frenzy and eviscerate, blood for blood... etc. I haven't experimented with those much so I can't really comment directly - but what little I have used them I won't lie, they do seem difficult to use effectively. Though I personally know several players who are very good with them and do impressive damage. So I can't say they suck. Though this may be changing after it gets nerfed in a future update.
I can understand that you aren't impressed with the new skills. But objectively speaking - they are an improvement over the old skill line. It's also very nice how you can choose which stage you want to play at now and stay there. Honestly: that change alone would have been enough to make me a happy camper because I hated having to advance to stage 4 every time I wanted to regularly use my vampire abilities.
[snip]
Drain is a trash heal in PvE that is outweighed by literally any class heal and can be interrupted via CC. Any class heal with heal more than it without needing to be channeled for 3 seconds. You will be laughed at if you try to use this skill in vet dungeons probably. Overland it is ok, but why not use any other heal?
Mist form is a good PvP skill, not good in PvE at all. Blood Mist is not worth slotting.
Mesmerize is trash because every class has access to a stun that does more than just stun. If you are a necromancer I recommend Ghostly Grasp (once this next patch hits this skill will have a slow, snare, and stun.) or Bone Totem. Both apply debuffs/buffs and do other things besides just CC. Mesmerize is not worth slotting.
Swarming Scion is a pretty alright ultimate, but costs way too much and is over all very weak compared to other ultimates for the cost. Gravelord's ult, for instance, is way better. If you want the survivability from Blood Scion, just take Bone Goliath.
Just because some people alter their whole builds around Blood Frenzy/BfB doesn't mean they are good or worth taking. Blood frenzy is honestly quite meh and you will find it very hard to use unless you build specifically for it. Which even then you'd be better off playing an easier build that is better to manage and deals more damage.
Objectively speaking, it is an improvement over the old skill line, but that doesn't make current vampire good design.
[snip]
Would you like to duel me? Because I would like to show you some of those vampire skills you say aren't worth slotting.
You also accused me of spreading "misinformation". Which wasn't very nice. There wasn't a shred of misinformation in my post. Just because you disagree with someone that doesn't make it misinformation. You are confusing a difference of opinion with misinformation.
So let's set up a duel. Because I'm not even going to argue this. I rather just show you then we can see whose statements should be taken with a grain of salt.
@Jeremy
I'm still trying to figure out what type of content you are tanking in if you are using drain as your main heal. The harder content in the game alot of times requires you to block AND burst heal at the same time. You try doing that with drain and it's a wipe. How are you successfully tanking endgame with that as your heal?
And dont mind him lol he's just a little passionate. 😂😂
It wouldn't be useful in a fight that requires you to keep block up 24/7. But I use drain to restore my life in Veteran DLC content all the time. I'm not saying it's the best heal in the game or ideal in every situation. But it's still a good heal to have if you don't invest into magicka and stamina. My Templar health build character for example uses it frequently and it's the best thing I have for getting my health back up. Saves my butt a lot.
How is it even a good heal if you don't invest into Magicka and stamina? Using it on a Templar is also very confusing, considering the class has access to way better heals.
Also if you're tanking on a Templar, that explains a lot. They are quite bad at tanking.Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on August 8, 2020 5:45PM0 -
SlimeBro1✭✭✭✭Can someone help me understand why the ‘new’ Vampire skills are so bad? I decided to come back after sometime, with 730cp so I know I can level fast and efficient. So I dive into Necro...have yet to find a solid rotation I like...but that will come once I have all the skills available. BUT....
The Vampire skills...what? Explain to me where they get good?
I have the Ultimate Blood Scion morphed to Swarming...this is pretty weak for a Ultimate?
Arterial Burst eviscerate...slow and boring, and really not that impactful. Maybe if it was a cleave?
Mesmerize - a stun that works only once on mobs then they seem immune?
The other skills...why even bother.
Someone please tell what i benefit from in Vamp before i just get rid of it...
Drain is a good independent heal for PvE because it doesn't depend on magicka or stamina. What it does is give every class access to a health-based heal - which can be useful for certain builds (like a Templar tank for example). I'm not sure how useful it is on Necromancer as I've never played one.
Mist Form works great - especially in PvP - as either a defensive or escape mechanism and is greatly improved over the older version because it's cheaper and a toggle now.
Not sure why you say the ultimate is weak. Swarming Scion seems pretty powerful to me and is easily one my favorite ultimate abilities. It is pricey though, I'll give you that.
Mesmerize is a cheap stun. You can use it more than once on an enemy - but you will have to wait I would guess around 12 seconds after the effect ends to use it again. Like all stuns - it's usefulness is situational. But I don't see why the skill is especially bad. It's just a stun and is what it is.
As far as frenzy and eviscerate, blood for blood... etc. I haven't experimented with those much so I can't really comment directly - but what little I have used them I won't lie, they do seem difficult to use effectively. Though I personally know several players who are very good with them and do impressive damage. So I can't say they suck. Though this may be changing after it gets nerfed in a future update.
I can understand that you aren't impressed with the new skills. But objectively speaking - they are an improvement over the old skill line. It's also very nice how you can choose which stage you want to play at now and stay there. Honestly: that change alone would have been enough to make me a happy camper because I hated having to advance to stage 4 every time I wanted to regularly use my vampire abilities.
[snip]
Drain is a trash heal in PvE that is outweighed by literally any class heal and can be interrupted via CC. Any class heal with heal more than it without needing to be channeled for 3 seconds. You will be laughed at if you try to use this skill in vet dungeons probably. Overland it is ok, but why not use any other heal?
Mist form is a good PvP skill, not good in PvE at all. Blood Mist is not worth slotting.
Mesmerize is trash because every class has access to a stun that does more than just stun. If you are a necromancer I recommend Ghostly Grasp (once this next patch hits this skill will have a slow, snare, and stun.) or Bone Totem. Both apply debuffs/buffs and do other things besides just CC. Mesmerize is not worth slotting.
Swarming Scion is a pretty alright ultimate, but costs way too much and is over all very weak compared to other ultimates for the cost. Gravelord's ult, for instance, is way better. If you want the survivability from Blood Scion, just take Bone Goliath.
Just because some people alter their whole builds around Blood Frenzy/BfB doesn't mean they are good or worth taking. Blood frenzy is honestly quite meh and you will find it very hard to use unless you build specifically for it. Which even then you'd be better off playing an easier build that is better to manage and deals more damage.
Objectively speaking, it is an improvement over the old skill line, but that doesn't make current vampire good design.
[snip]
Would you like to duel me? Because I would like to show you some of those vampire skills you say aren't worth slotting.
You also accused me of spreading "misinformation". Which wasn't very nice. There wasn't a shred of misinformation in my post. Just because you disagree with someone that doesn't make it misinformation. You are confusing a difference of opinion with misinformation.
So let's set up a duel. Because I'm not even going to argue this. I rather just show you then we can see whose statements should be taken with a grain of salt.
Alrighty, I won't duel you because I don't PvP and only go off of friends that PvP. BUT, my friend @Vevvev would probably be more than happy to duel you. You've spoken with them before in regards to the vampire topic as well. In fact, they once spoke to me about wanting to duel you in order to see these so-called 'vampire skills' you use, so I think this is a perfect opportunity to set it up. Then we can really see whose statements should be taken with a grain of salt. If they're interested, of course.
And you are spreading misinformation. You're trying to make the skill line out as something it isn't....which is literally misinformation. Sorry. Don't mean to come off as mean or rude, but you saying the skill line is good and great and all of this just isn't true. It isn't. If it were true, do you really think I and many others be sitting here complaining about it? We want to play as a vampire as much as you do.
For example, what you're saying would be like me saying Necromancer is absolutely a summon-focus class and has a wide variety of summons.Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on August 8, 2020 5:46PM1 -
Mortiis13✭✭✭✭After all vamp is only good in pvp for passiv(undeath) and mistform.
When u utilize mistform into your build u don't even loose much dmg or sustain. Switch a dmg glyph for sustain/cost reduction and use mist for 6 sec 300 wpn dmg buff.
But beside niche builds its totally crap and they failed to create an active vampire playstyle and even made it worse on pts.3 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I've been summoned?Alrighty, I won't duel you because I don't PvP and only go off of friends that PvP. BUT, my friend @Vevvev would probably be more than happy to duel you. You've spoken with them before in regards to the vampire topic as well. In fact, they once spoke to me about wanting to duel you in order to see these so-called 'vampire skills' you use, so I think this is a perfect opportunity to set it up. Then we can really see whose statements should be taken with a grain of salt. If they're interested, of course.
Oh... I'd be down for a duel but it wouldn't be fun for a vampire due to the fact I play a very offensive focused magDK. Even as a vampire I am a Dragonknight and that means I'm all about CQC domination.
I have been trying to work as many vampire abilities into my kit as I can but Mesmerize and Vampiric Drain just fall flat on their face. Blood Frenzy is terrible as well but at least it's morph Sated Fury can make the ability semi decent. Mesmerize is far too niche to be useful and is only good when you position yourself in front of a ball group when they round the corner or against foes that run at you with little concern for their own well being. ( PVE mobs and noob players )
Vampiric Drain is so worthless it's not even funny. I've tried everything I could to make it useful and the only time it saw any usability was in super heavy lag as I hid behind my allies. What did I use it for you might ask? Ult gain... That's it.
And then there is stage 4 vampirisim... It's benefits are gimicks you'll only use in open world PVP to hide from the big bad ball groups and cheesing PVE content. I suggested in a thread that ZOS should give it minor expedition as well since it'd blend perfectly with the vampire abilities, and would give you a slight edge in an actual fight that'd make it worth the debuffs.PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK2 -
Nova_J✭✭✭✭
@JeremyCan someone help me understand why the ‘new’ Vampire skills are so bad? I decided to come back after sometime, with 730cp so I know I can level fast and efficient. So I dive into Necro...have yet to find a solid rotation I like...but that will come once I have all the skills available. BUT....
The Vampire skills...what? Explain to me where they get good?
I have the Ultimate Blood Scion morphed to Swarming...this is pretty weak for a Ultimate?
Arterial Burst eviscerate...slow and boring, and really not that impactful. Maybe if it was a cleave?
Mesmerize - a stun that works only once on mobs then they seem immune?
The other skills...why even bother.
Someone please tell what i benefit from in Vamp before i just get rid of it...
Drain is a good independent heal for PvE because it doesn't depend on magicka or stamina. What it does is give every class access to a health-based heal - which can be useful for certain builds (like a Templar tank for example). I'm not sure how useful it is on Necromancer as I've never played one.
Mist Form works great - especially in PvP - as either a defensive or escape mechanism and is greatly improved over the older version because it's cheaper and a toggle now.
Not sure why you say the ultimate is weak. Swarming Scion seems pretty powerful to me and is easily one my favorite ultimate abilities. It is pricey though, I'll give you that.
Mesmerize is a cheap stun. You can use it more than once on an enemy - but you will have to wait I would guess around 12 seconds after the effect ends to use it again. Like all stuns - it's usefulness is situational. But I don't see why the skill is especially bad. It's just a stun and is what it is.
As far as frenzy and eviscerate, blood for blood... etc. I haven't experimented with those much so I can't really comment directly - but what little I have used them I won't lie, they do seem difficult to use effectively. Though I personally know several players who are very good with them and do impressive damage. So I can't say they suck. Though this may be changing after it gets nerfed in a future update.
I can understand that you aren't impressed with the new skills. But objectively speaking - they are an improvement over the old skill line. It's also very nice how you can choose which stage you want to play at now and stay there. Honestly: that change alone would have been enough to make me a happy camper because I hated having to advance to stage 4 every time I wanted to regularly use my vampire abilities.
[snip]
Drain is a trash heal in PvE that is outweighed by literally any class heal and can be interrupted via CC. Any class heal with heal more than it without needing to be channeled for 3 seconds. You will be laughed at if you try to use this skill in vet dungeons probably. Overland it is ok, but why not use any other heal?
Mist form is a good PvP skill, not good in PvE at all. Blood Mist is not worth slotting.
Mesmerize is trash because every class has access to a stun that does more than just stun. If you are a necromancer I recommend Ghostly Grasp (once this next patch hits this skill will have a slow, snare, and stun.) or Bone Totem. Both apply debuffs/buffs and do other things besides just CC. Mesmerize is not worth slotting.
Swarming Scion is a pretty alright ultimate, but costs way too much and is over all very weak compared to other ultimates for the cost. Gravelord's ult, for instance, is way better. If you want the survivability from Blood Scion, just take Bone Goliath.
Just because some people alter their whole builds around Blood Frenzy/BfB doesn't mean they are good or worth taking. Blood frenzy is honestly quite meh and you will find it very hard to use unless you build specifically for it. Which even then you'd be better off playing an easier build that is better to manage and deals more damage.
Objectively speaking, it is an improvement over the old skill line, but that doesn't make current vampire good design.
[snip]
Would you like to duel me? Because I would like to show you some of those vampire skills you say aren't worth slotting.
You also accused me of spreading "misinformation". Which wasn't very nice. There wasn't a shred of misinformation in my post. Just because you disagree with someone that doesn't make it misinformation. You are confusing a difference of opinion with misinformation.
So let's set up a duel. Because I'm not even going to argue this. I rather just show you then we can see whose statements should be taken with a grain of salt.
@Jeremy
I'm still trying to figure out what type of content you are tanking in if you are using drain as your main heal. The harder content in the game alot of times requires you to block AND burst heal at the same time. You try doing that with drain and it's a wipe. How are you successfully tanking endgame with that as your heal?
And dont mind him lol he's just a little passionate. 😂😂
It wouldn't be useful in a fight that requires you to keep block up 24/7. But I use drain to restore my life in Veteran DLC content all the time. I'm not saying it's the best heal in the game or ideal in every situation. But it's still a good heal to have if you don't invest into magicka and stamina. My Templar health build character for example uses it frequently and it's the best thing I have for getting my health back up. Saves my butt a lot.
I'm not talking about blocking 100% of the time, I'm just saying that in most vet dlcs dungeons you find yourself in situations where you have to heal yourself and block without the healer. What do you do in situations where you need to block and heal at the same time? Do you just eat the hit and die? Or do you change the skill? Drain will get you killed in those situations. And they happen ALOT, so you saying you clearing dlcs dungeons and above with that as your burst is hard to believe.Edited by Nova_J on August 8, 2020 7:47PM2 -
amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I guess I can't help you understand that because I quite like the current vampire line. I'm currently running it on my necro tank and I've had an absolute blast with it.0 -
SlimeBro1✭✭✭✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »I guess I can't help you understand that because I quite like the current vampire line. I'm currently running it on my necro tank and I've had an absolute blast with it.
What are you finding fun about it on necro tank? Genuinely curious since none of the active skills benefit you. Unless you're talking about just using whatever in overland.
0 -
SlimeBro1✭✭✭✭I've been summoned?Alrighty, I won't duel you because I don't PvP and only go off of friends that PvP. BUT, my friend @Vevvev would probably be more than happy to duel you. You've spoken with them before in regards to the vampire topic as well. In fact, they once spoke to me about wanting to duel you in order to see these so-called 'vampire skills' you use, so I think this is a perfect opportunity to set it up. Then we can really see whose statements should be taken with a grain of salt. If they're interested, of course.
Oh... I'd be down for a duel but it wouldn't be fun for a vampire due to the fact I play a very offensive focused magDK. Even as a vampire I am a Dragonknight and that means I'm all about CQC domination.
I have been trying to work as many vampire abilities into my kit as I can but Mesmerize and Vampiric Drain just fall flat on their face. Blood Frenzy is terrible as well but at least it's morph Sated Fury can make the ability semi decent. Mesmerize is far too niche to be useful and is only good when you position yourself in front of a ball group when they round the corner or against foes that run at you with little concern for their own well being. ( PVE mobs and noob players )
Vampiric Drain is so worthless it's not even funny. I've tried everything I could to make it useful and the only time it saw any usability was in super heavy lag as I hid behind my allies. What did I use it for you might ask? Ult gain... That's it.
And then there is stage 4 vampirisim... It's benefits are gimicks you'll only use in open world PVP to hide from the big bad ball groups and cheesing PVE content. I suggested in a thread that ZOS should give it minor expedition as well since it'd blend perfectly with the vampire abilities, and would give you a slight edge in an actual fight that'd make it worth the debuffs.
If @Jeremy's vamp set up is as good as he says it is, he should have no problem crushing your DK, @Vevvev.
0 -
Uberkull✭✭✭✭✭I've been summoned?Alrighty, I won't duel you because I don't PvP and only go off of friends that PvP. BUT, my friend @Vevvev would probably be more than happy to duel you. You've spoken with them before in regards to the vampire topic as well. In fact, they once spoke to me about wanting to duel you in order to see these so-called 'vampire skills' you use, so I think this is a perfect opportunity to set it up. Then we can really see whose statements should be taken with a grain of salt. If they're interested, of course.
Oh... I'd be down for a duel but it wouldn't be fun for a vampire due to the fact I play a very offensive focused magDK. Even as a vampire I am a Dragonknight and that means I'm all about CQC domination.
I have been trying to work as many vampire abilities into my kit as I can but Mesmerize and Vampiric Drain just fall flat on their face. Blood Frenzy is terrible as well but at least it's morph Sated Fury can make the ability semi decent. Mesmerize is far too niche to be useful and is only good when you position yourself in front of a ball group when they round the corner or against foes that run at you with little concern for their own well being. ( PVE mobs and noob players )
Vampiric Drain is so worthless it's not even funny. I've tried everything I could to make it useful and the only time it saw any usability was in super heavy lag as I hid behind my allies. What did I use it for you might ask? Ult gain... That's it.
And then there is stage 4 vampirisim... It's benefits are gimicks you'll only use in open world PVP to hide from the big bad ball groups and cheesing PVE content. I suggested in a thread that ZOS should give it minor expedition as well since it'd blend perfectly with the vampire abilities, and would give you a slight edge in an actual fight that'd make it worth the debuffs.
If @Jeremy's vamp set up is as good as he says it is, he should have no problem crushing your DK, @Vevvev.
Where will this duel occur and are the stakes...😎▬ஜ Seeds of War, Piles of Skulls ஜ▬
▬▬▬ஜ twitch.tv/uberkull ஜ▬▬▬0 -
Michaelkeir✭✭✭✭✭Can someone help me understand why the ‘new’ Vampire skills are so bad? I decided to come back after sometime, with 730cp so I know I can level fast and efficient. So I dive into Necro...have yet to find a solid rotation I like...but that will come once I have all the skills available. BUT....
The Vampire skills...what? Explain to me where they get good?
I have the Ultimate Blood Scion morphed to Swarming...this is pretty weak for a Ultimate?
Arterial Burst eviscerate...slow and boring, and really not that impactful. Maybe if it was a cleave?
Mesmerize - a stun that works only once on mobs then they seem immune?
The other skills...why even bother.
Someone please tell what i benefit from in Vamp before i just get rid of it...
Oh, absolutely nothing. Vampire is kinda horrid on necro unless you plan on using BfB, which is going to be nerfed out of existence next patch.
The ultimate is a slightly better but re-skin of the bone goliath.
If you came back for the vampire rework, you will be horrifically disappointed. I also recommend not getting greymoor if the current state of vampire irks you too because the NPC vamps in that expansion for whatever reason have better designed and useful abilities over us as players. They can summon swarms of bats that follow players, turn into a cloud of bats for gap closing, use various blood magic and night magic spells. What do we get? We're basically a bloodfiend.
Also I really hope you didn't come back expecting to be a necromancer like the NPCs either. You know, the normie necros that have been in the game since day 1? Yeah for some reason necromancer isn't the "summoner" class. Instead you have 2 "kinda not really summons" and a bunch of other spells. You cannot raise a zombie or skeletal warrior to fight for you and the mage/ghost are basically advanced dots since they don't have hit boxes nor do they require any sort of corpse to be raised.
You might be asking yourself: "Wait, why does necromancer have this huge new corpse mechanic if none of the summons get raised from them?" And that is where I'd tell you it's ZOS's A+ Game Design. Yeah you know that one thing necromancers do? Let's add a corpse mechanic and not give the player to raise corpses.
Don't play vampire if you're looking to be a vampire and don't play necromancer unless you want to be more of a "death knight" over magic-summoner.
I felt this in my soul. It's sad and true at the same time. Sums up my feelings perfectly.1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
@JeremyCan someone help me understand why the ‘new’ Vampire skills are so bad? I decided to come back after sometime, with 730cp so I know I can level fast and efficient. So I dive into Necro...have yet to find a solid rotation I like...but that will come once I have all the skills available. BUT....
The Vampire skills...what? Explain to me where they get good?
I have the Ultimate Blood Scion morphed to Swarming...this is pretty weak for a Ultimate?
Arterial Burst eviscerate...slow and boring, and really not that impactful. Maybe if it was a cleave?
Mesmerize - a stun that works only once on mobs then they seem immune?
The other skills...why even bother.
Someone please tell what i benefit from in Vamp before i just get rid of it...
Drain is a good independent heal for PvE because it doesn't depend on magicka or stamina. What it does is give every class access to a health-based heal - which can be useful for certain builds (like a Templar tank for example). I'm not sure how useful it is on Necromancer as I've never played one.
Mist Form works great - especially in PvP - as either a defensive or escape mechanism and is greatly improved over the older version because it's cheaper and a toggle now.
Not sure why you say the ultimate is weak. Swarming Scion seems pretty powerful to me and is easily one my favorite ultimate abilities. It is pricey though, I'll give you that.
Mesmerize is a cheap stun. You can use it more than once on an enemy - but you will have to wait I would guess around 12 seconds after the effect ends to use it again. Like all stuns - it's usefulness is situational. But I don't see why the skill is especially bad. It's just a stun and is what it is.
As far as frenzy and eviscerate, blood for blood... etc. I haven't experimented with those much so I can't really comment directly - but what little I have used them I won't lie, they do seem difficult to use effectively. Though I personally know several players who are very good with them and do impressive damage. So I can't say they suck. Though this may be changing after it gets nerfed in a future update.
I can understand that you aren't impressed with the new skills. But objectively speaking - they are an improvement over the old skill line. It's also very nice how you can choose which stage you want to play at now and stay there. Honestly: that change alone would have been enough to make me a happy camper because I hated having to advance to stage 4 every time I wanted to regularly use my vampire abilities.
[snip]
Drain is a trash heal in PvE that is outweighed by literally any class heal and can be interrupted via CC. Any class heal with heal more than it without needing to be channeled for 3 seconds. You will be laughed at if you try to use this skill in vet dungeons probably. Overland it is ok, but why not use any other heal?
Mist form is a good PvP skill, not good in PvE at all. Blood Mist is not worth slotting.
Mesmerize is trash because every class has access to a stun that does more than just stun. If you are a necromancer I recommend Ghostly Grasp (once this next patch hits this skill will have a slow, snare, and stun.) or Bone Totem. Both apply debuffs/buffs and do other things besides just CC. Mesmerize is not worth slotting.
Swarming Scion is a pretty alright ultimate, but costs way too much and is over all very weak compared to other ultimates for the cost. Gravelord's ult, for instance, is way better. If you want the survivability from Blood Scion, just take Bone Goliath.
Just because some people alter their whole builds around Blood Frenzy/BfB doesn't mean they are good or worth taking. Blood frenzy is honestly quite meh and you will find it very hard to use unless you build specifically for it. Which even then you'd be better off playing an easier build that is better to manage and deals more damage.
Objectively speaking, it is an improvement over the old skill line, but that doesn't make current vampire good design.
[snip]
Would you like to duel me? Because I would like to show you some of those vampire skills you say aren't worth slotting.
You also accused me of spreading "misinformation". Which wasn't very nice. There wasn't a shred of misinformation in my post. Just because you disagree with someone that doesn't make it misinformation. You are confusing a difference of opinion with misinformation.
So let's set up a duel. Because I'm not even going to argue this. I rather just show you then we can see whose statements should be taken with a grain of salt.
@Jeremy
I'm still trying to figure out what type of content you are tanking in if you are using drain as your main heal. The harder content in the game alot of times requires you to block AND burst heal at the same time. You try doing that with drain and it's a wipe. How are you successfully tanking endgame with that as your heal?
And dont mind him lol he's just a little passionate. 😂😂
It wouldn't be useful in a fight that requires you to keep block up 24/7. But I use drain to restore my life in Veteran DLC content all the time. I'm not saying it's the best heal in the game or ideal in every situation. But it's still a good heal to have if you don't invest into magicka and stamina. My Templar health build character for example uses it frequently and it's the best thing I have for getting my health back up. Saves my butt a lot.
I'm not talking about blocking 100% of the time, I'm just saying that in most vet dlcs dungeons you find yourself in situations where you have to heal yourself and block without the healer. What do you do in situations where you need to block and heal at the same time? Do you just eat the hit and die? Or do you change the skill? Drain will get you killed in those situations. And they happen ALOT, so you saying you clearing dlcs dungeons and above with that as your burst is hard to believe.
I don't know why it's so hard to believe. I use drain to heal myself in DLC Veteran dungeons all the time. I can't do it while I"m blocking of course and it helps to throw up a damage shield before I start healing, but it works. It's better than anything else I have to get my life back.
Why don't you tell me - if you were a Templar Tank who is invested heavily in health what other ability would you use to restore your health with?
Edited by Jeremy on August 10, 2020 4:10PM0 -
amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »I guess I can't help you understand that because I quite like the current vampire line. I'm currently running it on my necro tank and I've had an absolute blast with it.
What are you finding fun about it on necro tank? Genuinely curious since none of the active skills benefit you. Unless you're talking about just using whatever in overland.
Mist is a mainstay on my bar, acting both as a personal purge for CC, as well as offering some backbar mitigation when I don't have my shield equipped, and also provides Expedition in situations where I need a little more mobility, ala the splitting boss in Depths of Malatar where I need to taunt the 4 splits and run around the room to wrangle them in the middle for AOE's.
Stage 3 gives me additional damage mitigation the lower my life is. It has come in very handy, slowing down my damage taken in those latter stages of things that have gotten out of control, allowing me to get those last heals in to keep myself alive and help my group make a comeback.
As a necro with a lot of my tank debuffs / sustains also doubling as DOT's (Unnerving Graveyard, Mystic Siphon, Hungry Scythe), the Strike From Shadows passive after I come out of my Mist helps give those an extra little punch. I have certain setups that I've used where I can crank out my spell damage (character sheet) to around 3k, and dish out approx. 10k supplemental dps without sacrificing health, resistances, CC's, or buffs / debuffs.
I also like the Scion transformation, I will rotate it with the Goliath transformation depending on circumstances. If I'm in a situation where I need pure survivability, I go with the Goliath, but if I'm in a situation where I need a bit more active defense, I go with the Scion for the additional mag and stam in addition to a health boost as well.
The increased fire damage and skill costs have seem hardly noticeable to me, and I've been able to pretty strongly tank vet content, so while it's true the vampire line doesn't offer explicit and obvious bonuses to tanking, it doesn't really give much disadvantage either, and there are a couple tools in the kit that can be of use.1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »I guess I can't help you understand that because I quite like the current vampire line. I'm currently running it on my necro tank and I've had an absolute blast with it.
What are you finding fun about it on necro tank? Genuinely curious since none of the active skills benefit you. Unless you're talking about just using whatever in overland.
Mist is a mainstay on my bar, acting both as a personal purge for CC, as well as offering some backbar mitigation when I don't have my shield equipped, and also provides Expedition in situations where I need a little more mobility, ala the splitting boss in Depths of Malatar where I need to taunt the 4 splits and run around the room to wrangle them in the middle for AOE's.
Yeah I should have touched on this as well.
A lot of people dismiss Mist Form as having any use in PvE - but it's actually a useful tool for tanks to move around and mitigate damage with. I've been using it on mine in similar fashion.Edited by Jeremy on August 10, 2020 4:56PM1 -
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amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »I guess I can't help you understand that because I quite like the current vampire line. I'm currently running it on my necro tank and I've had an absolute blast with it.
What are you finding fun about it on necro tank? Genuinely curious since none of the active skills benefit you. Unless you're talking about just using whatever in overland.
Mist is a mainstay on my bar, acting both as a personal purge for CC, as well as offering some backbar mitigation when I don't have my shield equipped, and also provides Expedition in situations where I need a little more mobility, ala the splitting boss in Depths of Malatar where I need to taunt the 4 splits and run around the room to wrangle them in the middle for AOE's.
Yeah I should have touched on this as well.
A lot of people dismiss Mist Form as having any use in PvE - but it's actually a useful tool for tanks to move around and mitigate damage with. I've been using it on mine in similar fashion.
I chalk a lot of it up to the overall meta / min max mindset. It is a very "all or nothing" mentality and if something isn't immediately perceived to have the absolute right "math" then it's tossed out and rejected altogether, with no acceptance of things that might still work, just differently, and no acceptance of anything that performs to any other capacity other than perceived "maximum efficiency".
Vampire isn't immediately seen to have any benefit for tanks, and fair enough, it's quite obviously more beneficial for DD's, but that doesn't mean it's absolutely worthless for tanks. It definitely has some things that can be utilized for someone who wants to intentionally build around them.
Specifically with Mist, I find that despite a tank's general stationary role, a tank having mobility is a very big asset since we need to be able to move around the fight and try to position bosses and adds. The mist, also giving CC immunity while offering a speed boost, has proven very beneficial. Or there is the other morph that does AOE damage + self healing as well, which can be beneficial for a tank as well, although because it's a channel it does mean that there isn't anything else you can do without dropping the form, which is why I took Blood Mist off of my tank and changed it to Elusive Mist. The mobility proved to be more useful to me than the AOE + HOT.
So yea, I get a lot of weird looks and comments when people find out that I am a vampire tank, but tbh I really enjoy it on my necromancer tank and I won't be changing it.0 -
SlimeBro1✭✭✭✭You would be surprised, not a lot of people, including myself have that min/max mindset. I use stuff that isn't grade A+ to do vet dungeons. I and many others just want to play as a vampire.
But what I do know is that vampire itself just is not good in general. You use mist form on your tank as a mobility tool? Sure, I'll give you that. I've heard of tanks using mist form before. But that plus scion sometimes is 2 abilities out of 6.
It's good that you enjoy it, though. I appreciate your explanation on why you use vampire as a tank, however.0 -
josiahva✭✭✭✭✭
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@Jeremy
I'm not talking about blocking 100% of the time, I'm just saying that in most vet dlcs dungeons you find yourself in situations where you have to heal yourself and block without the healer. What do you do in situations where you need to block and heal at the same time? Do you just eat the hit and die? Or do you change the skill? Drain will get you killed in those situations. And they happen ALOT, so you saying you clearing dlcs dungeons and above with that as your burst is hard to believe.[/quote]
I have to say...that in vet DLCs(HM or not) that is factually incorrect. While its nice to be able to heal and block at the same time, I very rarely do so...in fact, on my DK, green dragon blood isnt even on my front bar...its a back bar ability only...so not only can't I heal front bar, I actually have to swap to back bar to do so. I will qualify that though with the fact that I run a shield tank, so its not as critical as more conventional tanks to be able to heal and block at the same time since I often have 20k+ worth of shields up on myself. And no, I don't have any problems completing vet DLC HMs with the setup. In a trial setting though I will front bar a self heal...it all depends on the content you are running and your build/playstyle as to what you can get away with.0