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Are there new BIS sets for Stamina builds?

Baraber
Baraber
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I've been doing some testing myself, but my ping prevents me from getting definitive results, I assume some of you already tested this so i'll be happy if you'll share what you got so far:

1. Do Relequen and lokkestiiz still reign supreme? How is Selene doing?

2. Is Advancing Yokeda the new rising king?

3. Is advancing yokeda best paired with Relequen or Lokkestiiz?

4. While deadly strike remains BiS on templar, can it be the new BiS for StamDK and StamSorc (with Rapid Strikes as spam)?

5. Is Thief Mundus now better than Shadow on some classes? And if so, which ones?

6. What are the new BiS weapon and jewelry traits? Is it still Axe Nirn Dagger Sharp and all bloodthirsty jewelry?

7. Does War Machine worth the trouble?

8. Are there any new sets i might have missed that might contend for the top spot?

9. How noticeable is the buff StamBlade got? Can it compete with Necro and Templar yet? What sets best fit this class? Is Rapid strikes better than surprise attack?

10. And finally: is StamDK still ***? How OP is necro exactly compared to the rest?

Sorry for the long post, this new patch brings SO MANY changes to stamina pve it's hard to test it all.

Thanks in advance!
  • Joxer61
    Joxer61
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    you wont know til it goes live..c.an change at any time til then.
  • VoidCommander
    VoidCommander
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    2. 3. : I've tested advancing yokeda against relequens and the difference if any is small enough to be negligable. However, critical hit chance is going to mean a lot more when combined with the new elemental catalyst set. I imagine crit chance sets like advancing yokeda will be more highly favored for this reason.
  • VoidCommander
    VoidCommander
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    6. : Again, because of elemental catalyst, having higher crit chance will become very important. I imagine axe and dagger will still be the go to, but you will want precise for both of the traits. Bloodthirsty as of this current pts patch still outperforms infused by a sizable margin. I believe with 3 bloodthirsty versus 3 infused with weapon damage the bloodthirsty averages about 100 something more weapon/spell damage throughout the course of the fight. I have a post somewhere in the forums that elaborates on that in much greater detail.
  • VoidCommander
    VoidCommander
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    1. : In terms of parsing potential (ie: no elemental catalyst to account for) yes they are just as supreme as they once were. Any damage lost by these sets was made up for by the buffs to the thief mundus stone, precise trait, etc. However, the margin by which they reign supreme is much smaller than you might be used to. Someone running other sets like the new pillar of nirn will be able to get numbers very close to that of relequen for example, albeit still less than it.
  • Villainelle
    Villainelle
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    2. 3. : I've tested advancing yokeda against relequens and the difference if any is small enough to be negligable. However, critical hit chance is going to mean a lot more when combined with the new elemental catalyst set. I imagine crit chance sets like advancing yokeda will be more highly favored for this reason.

    Assuming you tested them on dummies? If so, AY will outperform in most situations due to not having to manage stacks, and should pull far ahead when AOE is a factor.
  • VoidCommander
    VoidCommander
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    5. : Before the rule of thumb was always if you are less than 50% crit, go with thief, otherwise go for shadow. But since elemental catalyst gives a "super shadow" buff anyways, this is no longer going to be the case. I don't know the new math meta, but at a GUESS I would say go for thief unless your crit is already above 60%. I don't think this is class specific unless your class has increased crit damage like templar, in which case you most definitely should run thief.
  • VoidCommander
    VoidCommander
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    4. : I personally found deadly to be inferior on templar when compared to sets like aegis caller or the new pillar of nirn. With that said, I doubt it would fare much better on stamDK or stamSorc. Someone with more experience testing Deadly please feel free to double check me on this one.
  • VoidCommander
    VoidCommander
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    7. : No it is not. There are plenty of magicka dps classes that need to be able to branch out from something other than false gods. Stamina have over 4 FANTASTIC dps sets to choose from. Magicka have 1-2 including master architect (sirorias is not counted due to not being viable in most content). Let the magicka users like the magicka necromancer use the Master architect set since they are forced to use high cost ultimates anyways.
  • Skjaldbjorn
    Skjaldbjorn
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    Baraber wrote: »
    I've been doing some testing myself, but my ping prevents me from getting definitive results, I assume some of you already tested this so i'll be happy if you'll share what you got so far:

    1. Do Relequen and lokkestiiz still reign supreme? How is Selene doing?

    Depends heavily on how RO functions. I think Lokke could have a niche place, def worth keeping. If you don't have major slayer gen in your group, Lokke is still good. Rele actually got buffed in a roundabout way. Lower overall DPS, but useable in a lot more fights/situations.
    2. Is Advancing Yokeda the new rising king?

    Probably, yeah. Seems that way at least.
    4. Is advancing yokeda best paired with Relequen or Lokkestiiz?

    Depends a lot on group dynamic. I guess Lokke/AY could be okay. Not entirely sure how those numbers would work out.
    5. While deadly strike remains BiS on templar, can it be the new BiS for StamDK and StamSorc (with Rapid Strikes as spam)?

    Doubt it. I mean it should probably be tested, but I really doubt it.
    5. Is Thief Mundus now better than Shadow on some classes? And if so, which ones?

    It had a real good chance to be until NMA got dunked. NMA/Rele was looking astoundingly good with thief.
    6. What are the new BiS weapon and jewelry traits? Is it still Axe Nirn Dagger Sharp and all bloodthirsty jewelry?

    Probably Nirn/Precise and 3x BT. I could see Infused being better on some classes, since BT doesn't scale with modifiers. Need to see more math though.
    7. Does War Machine worth the trouble?

    If you don't have other options it'll be good on like Stam DK or Stamcro probably, but tank proximity is going to make it a mess to use on a lot of fights. I much prefer Master Architect.
    8. Are there any new sets i might have missed that might contend for the top spot?

    Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh nope. Not off the top of the dome.
    9. How noticeable is the buff StamBlade got? Can it compete with Necro and Templar yet? What sets best fit this class? Is Rapid strikes better than surprise attack?

    So the Stamblade buff was strong and largely just equalized with the over-arching changes. I think NB is roughly in the same spot they were in Greymoor, but their numbers in trials should be better. Also the Morag change is going to buff the ever-loving hell out of them and Stamcro, which is depressing.
    10. And finally: is StamDK still ***? How OP is necro exactly compared to the rest?

    I still think Stamcro is tops. Stamblade is heavily execute-loaded, which is good on some fights, but Stamcro and probably Sorc/Plar will be decidedly more consistent. Stam DK and Stamden are living in the cellar together atm.

    Edited by Skjaldbjorn on August 1, 2020 10:41PM
  • Koubo
    Koubo
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    5 : I've never heard of a better option than Deadly for Stamplar. With Releq for parsing and static fight. With Lokke rest of the time. Not terrible on dummie (Lokke) because of the uptime possible. Maybe i miss something i would be glad to learn. Right now, i use Deadly all the time, paired with Lokke (with enough Syn) Releq (ST fight long enough to stack) NMA (for Overland mostly) VO (some trash pack or vMA) or even AY (85L parsed on live with it. It will be very good with the curent PTS if it goes live)

    6 : I saw someone's vidéo. Doing [snip] math to explain BT vs Infuse and the result was : the more you could increase your spell/weapon dmg, the more Infuse was VS BT. In practice, MagDD cant really benefit Infuse more than BT because MagDD dosent have huge multicator. Maybe MagSorc could use it a bit since they have a reverse Execut. However, StamDD have more effect on WeapDMG. Which mean, the gap between BT and Infuse become more close. In the end of the vidéo, BT and Infuse was almost on par (BT a little bit better) for all DD except, MAYBE, Stamplar and StamSorc because they have another modifier as passive which will increase Infuse effect while dosent affect BT. All of that will be verified in Live. I'm prepared with a 2nd set of AY ready to be Transmut (i'm main Stam(weak)Plar)

    [Edited for Censor Bypass]
    Edited by ZOS_KageW on August 2, 2020 12:53AM
  • nesakinter
    nesakinter
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    1. Do Relequen and lokkestiiz still reign supreme? How is Selene doing?
    Relequen got nerfed for parsing and static fights but buffed for most dynamic fights. Lokke will still be good but now as niche set. Especially not worth using with another Minor Slayer set anymore.
    2. Is Advancing Yokeda the new rising king?
    It has never been truly out of the meta and the buff it got makes it BiS again.
    3. Is advancing yokeda best paired with Relequen or Lokkestiiz?
    Relequen is still the stamina BiS set so....
    4. While deadly strike remains BiS on templar, can it be the new BiS for StamDK and StamSorc (with Rapid Strikes as spam)?
    I don't think so, the new AY is really strong.
    5. Is Thief Mundus now better than Shadow on some classes? And if so, which ones?
    Not better from I have seen but much closer because of the nerf, also due to the fact that we have another new 15% crit dmg support set. On classes like Stamblade and Stamplar, from my testing thief was giving me near identical results. For Stamcro though, Shadow is still better as we get max crit chance anyways in execute.
    6. What are the new BiS weapon and jewelry traits? Is it still Axe Nirn Dagger Sharp and all bloodthirsty jewelry?
    Nirn+Precise seems to be the way to go. 1xInfused+2xBT is looking to be the BiS stat combo. For execute heavy classes though like stamblade, 3xBT is the way to go.
    7. Does War Machine worth the trouble?
    It is worth it on cheaper ult classes like stamblade. But it like compete with Rele for usage so it depends on how dynanic the fight and how close your nearby DDs are.
    8. Are there any new sets i might have missed that might contend for the top spot?
    Well, Morag Tong is going to make a return. If a support does not use it, it will fall on a DD to use it.
    9. How noticeable is the buff StamBlade got? Can it compete with Necro and Templar yet? What sets best fit this class? Is Rapid strikes better than surprise attack?
    Stamblade is virtually tied with Stamcro for parse DPS at nearly 93k. Every stamina DPS got nerfed by around 4k due to the overall changes this patch. But stamblade buffs essentially cancelled out the nerfs, resulting in them maintaining their Greymoor DPS.
    For sets on stamblade, you want max possible crit so definitely AY. Relequen or War Machine depending on how dynamic the fight is.
    10. And finally: is StamDK still ***? How OP is necro exactly compared to the rest?
    Stamcro is still the parse boss with just above 93k, a hair ahead of stamblade. Keep in mind though that stamcro parses have Major Vulnerability in it but other classes don't so in real raid scenarios, stamblade will overtake stamcro by a decent margin. Stamplar is also very close to stamblade and stamcro and has easier rotations than either. Stamsorc is just behind at just over 90k DPS. StamDK and Stamden are lagging behind quite a bit. Like the previous Major Vuln example though, parses are a not true indicator of raid performance though. Sustain varies wildly across the classes, with stamblade having the best and stamdk probably the worst. Also Morag Tong usage will give stamcros and stamblades higher DPS in raids.

    Hope these help. Someone way more experienced in raiding like @WrathOfInnos could probably give more detailed info.
    Edited by nesakinter on August 1, 2020 11:43PM
  • WrathOfInnos
    WrathOfInnos
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    ✭✭✭
    nesakinter wrote: »
    1. Do Relequen and lokkestiiz still reign supreme? How is Selene doing?
    Relequen got nerfed for parsing and static fights but buffed for most dynamic fights. Lokke will still be good but now as niche set. Especially not worth using with another Minor Slayer set anymore.
    2. Is Advancing Yokeda the new rising king?
    It has never been truly out of the meta and the buff it got makes it BiS again.
    3. Is advancing yokeda best paired with Relequen or Lokkestiiz?
    Relequen is still the stamina BiS set so....
    4. While deadly strike remains BiS on templar, can it be the new BiS for StamDK and StamSorc (with Rapid Strikes as spam)?
    I don't think so, the new AY is really strong.
    5. Is Thief Mundus now better than Shadow on some classes? And if so, which ones?
    Not better from I have seen but much closer because of the nerf, also due to the fact that we have another new 15% crit dmg support set. On classes like Stamblade and Stamplar, from my testing thief was giving me near identical results. For Stamcro though, Shadow is still better as we get max crit chance anyways in execute.
    6. What are the new BiS weapon and jewelry traits? Is it still Axe Nirn Dagger Sharp and all bloodthirsty jewelry?
    Nirn+Precise seems to be the way to go. 1xInfused+2xBT is looking to be the BiS stat combo. For execute heavy classes though like stamblade, 3xBT is the way to go.
    7. Does War Machine worth the trouble?
    It is worth it on cheaper ult classes like stamblade. But it like compete with Rele for usage so it depends on how dynanic the fight and how close your nearby DDs are.
    8. Are there any new sets i might have missed that might contend for the top spot?
    Well, Morag Tong is going to make a return. If a support does not use it, it will fall on a DD to use it.
    9. How noticeable is the buff StamBlade got? Can it compete with Necro and Templar yet? What sets best fit this class? Is Rapid strikes better than surprise attack?
    Stamblade is virtually tied with Stamcro for parse DPS at nearly 93k. Every stamina DPS got nerfed by around 4k due to the overall changes this patch. But stamblade buffs essentially cancelled out the nerfs, resulting in them maintaining their Greymoor DPS.
    For sets on stamblade, you want max possible crit so definitely AY. Relequen or War Machine depending on how dynamic the fight is.
    10. And finally: is StamDK still ***? How OP is necro exactly compared to the rest?
    Stamcro is still the parse boss with just above 93k, a hair ahead of stamblade. Keep in mind though that stamcro parses have Major Vulnerability in it but other classes don't so in real raid scenarios, stamblade will overtake stamcro by a decent margin. Stamplar is also very close to stamblade and stamcro and has easier rotations than either. Stamsorc is just behind at just over 90k DPS. StamDK and Stamden are lagging behind quite a bit. Like the previous Major Vuln example though, parses are a not true indicator of raid performance though. Sustain varies wildly across the classes, with stamblade having the best and stamdk probably the worst. Also Morag Tong usage will give stamcros and stamblades higher DPS in raids.

    Hope these help. Someone way more experienced in raiding like @WrathOfInnos could probably give more detailed info.

    I haven’t been in any stam cores in the last few months, so can’t comment personally. I’ve been hearing that Rele is still powerful on PTS, and more versatile. I expect we’ll see Rele + AY on most DPS with 3 Stamcros in War Machine. Maybe Stamplars would still use Deadly? I think that will end up beating everyone in AY + Lokke (although that’s an option if you need more cleave than Rele), since WM on colossus achieves average 60% Major Slayer uptime across the group (some could see 80%, but it only buffs 6 people so group average is lower), and it’s always synchronized with Major Vuln. We’ll have to see how it plays out in raids, but I’m expecting good things from stam this patch.
    Edited by WrathOfInnos on August 2, 2020 12:07AM
  • stefj68
    stefj68
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    6. : Again, because of elemental catalyst, having higher crit chance will become very important. I imagine axe and dagger will still be the go to, but you will want precise for both of the traits. Bloodthirsty as of this current pts patch still outperforms infused by a sizable margin. I believe with 3 bloodthirsty versus 3 infused with weapon damage the bloodthirsty averages about 100 something more weapon/spell damage throughout the course of the fight. I have a post somewhere in the forums that elaborates on that in much greater detail.

    elemental catalyst is a magicka dps set... not stamina like he ask for
  • VoidCommander
    VoidCommander
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    stefj68 wrote: »
    6. : Again, because of elemental catalyst, having higher crit chance will become very important. I imagine axe and dagger will still be the go to, but you will want precise for both of the traits. Bloodthirsty as of this current pts patch still outperforms infused by a sizable margin. I believe with 3 bloodthirsty versus 3 infused with weapon damage the bloodthirsty averages about 100 something more weapon/spell damage throughout the course of the fight. I have a post somewhere in the forums that elaborates on that in much greater detail.

    elemental catalyst is a magicka dps set... not stamina like he ask for

    I agree, but elemental catalyst is a support set that every trial group will have, which directly affects a stam dps's critical damage.
  • Baraber
    Baraber
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    @VoidCommander @Skjaldbjorn @nesakinter @WrathOfInnos thanks for the help guys! Very informative.

    I'll parse rele+lokke compared to rele+AY and see how it goes.
    Also nice tip on Pillar of Nirn! I might try it out.

    Thing is I'm still not sure about off hand being precise over sharpened on a crit heavy class. I hope that the difference is big enough for it to show in a parse.
  • Koubo
    Koubo
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    Baraber wrote: »
    @VoidCommander @Skjaldbjorn @nesakinter @WrathOfInnos thanks for the help guys! Very informative.

    I'll parse rele+lokke compared to rele+AY and see how it goes.
    Also nice tip on Pillar of Nirn! I might try it out.

    Thing is I'm still not sure about off hand being precise over sharpened on a crit heavy class. I hope that the difference is big enough for it to show in a parse.

    The thing with Sharp is just : You need to be Pen caped in trial condition and CP point bring a good amount of damage if you invest point somewhere else than in piercing. With the curent meta, i'm force to play with 61 in Piercing because and i'm never capped, even with Shapr left hand. Next patch, few sources of penetration are up (Alkosh, Crusher with torug...) which might let us able to switch from Sharp to Piercing, but it will depend on your trial mostly. If one tank use Tremor or not (it's often not)
  • n0she1teR
    n0she1teR
    7. : No it is not. There are plenty of magicka dps classes that need to be able to branch out from something other than false gods. Stamina have over 4 FANTASTIC dps sets to choose from. Magicka have 1-2 including master architect (sirorias is not counted due to not being viable in most content). Let the magicka users like the magicka necromancer use the Master architect set since they are forced to use high cost ultimates anyways.

    From a PVE noob looking to set up a stamcro for PVE: what are these 4 sets I should look into?

    Rele?
    Lok?
    Deadly?

    Just trying to get smart on some PVE
  • Koubo
    Koubo
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    n0she1teR wrote: »
    7. : No it is not. There are plenty of magicka dps classes that need to be able to branch out from something other than false gods. Stamina have over 4 FANTASTIC dps sets to choose from. Magicka have 1-2 including master architect (sirorias is not counted due to not being viable in most content). Let the magicka users like the magicka necromancer use the Master architect set since they are forced to use high cost ultimates anyways.

    From a PVE noob looking to set up a stamcro for PVE: what are these 4 sets I should look into?

    Rele?
    Lok?
    Deadly?

    Just trying to get smart on some PVE

    For Stamcro, i would grabe AY, Lokke and Releq and swap Releq/Lokke depend on the situation. But i'm not a Stamcro (might roll one tho)
    As a dedicated player, i would grab more set to fit different groups and role. New Nirn look interresting, should grab VO for trashs, Alkosh if tanks cant provide it. For example. But Lokke/AY is probably a good to go for most of the content in the game where you dont need to be maxed out crazy.
  • VoidCommander
    VoidCommander
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    @n0she1teR

    The four sets I had in mind were specifically trial sets. A stam dps can use Relequens, Lokkestes, Advancing Yokeda, War Machine, and even Yandirs Might. There have been very few "dead sets" for stam trials over the years, whereas magicka dps have useless sets ( or that become support sets) like Roaring Opportunist, Siroria's, Infallible Aether, Master architect (old version could only be used by half of the classes).
  • Playboy_Shrek
    Playboy_Shrek
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    morkuldin
    lol.
  • Skullstachio
    Skullstachio
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    Baraber wrote: »
    8. Are there any new sets i might have missed that might contend for the top spot?

    The Savage Werewolf set from moon hunter keep comes to mind, I ran a few tests and you might be surprised just how much of a contender it is.
    Pros:
    • Has extra stamina, stamina recovery and weapon damage.
    • Makes light and heavy attacks cause enemies to bleed for X amount of damage every second for 4 seconds.
    • think of the bleed effect as a buff to your Light/Heavy attack damage as it always deals the first tick of damage on each hit as bleed damage(with no hidden cooldown which is perfect.)
    • Paired with the blood moon set, it will make you rip and tear as equally well as doom guy.
    • the werewolf berserkers heavy Conal attack is also affected by savage werewolf, letting it apply the bleed to multiple enemies.
    • In comparison to relequen, the bleed damage per second is more frontloaded which is good for a situational set.

    Cons:
    • Does not have minor slayer so no 5% damage buff against dungeons and trial monsters unless paired with a trial set in regards to personal preference (kind of a double edged sword here.)
    • no extra weapon critical in comparison to other sets.
    • Hard to acquire the set since most bosses in moon hunter keep are mechanic based. Random LFG not advisable.
    I don’t think I can find any more cons for it. But in short, It is a damn good set.
    Xbox LIVE: Skullstachio

    Timezone: (+10:00 AEST) (+11:00 AEDT During Daylight Saving Hours.)

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  • Skjaldbjorn
    Skjaldbjorn
    ✭✭✭✭

    I haven’t been in any stam cores in the last few months, so can’t comment personally. I’ve been hearing that Rele is still powerful on PTS, and more versatile. I expect we’ll see Rele + AY on most DPS with 3 Stamcros in War Machine. Maybe Stamplars would still use Deadly? I think that will end up beating everyone in AY + Lokke (although that’s an option if you need more cleave than Rele), since WM on colossus achieves average 60% Major Slayer uptime across the group (some could see 80%, but it only buffs 6 people so group average is lower), and it’s always synchronized with Major Vuln. We’ll have to see how it plays out in raids, but I’m expecting good things from stam this patch.

    @WrathOfInnos I think it's more likely we see 3 Magcros in MA. We're probably headed for 4/4 splits since the support sets are either dead or not needed anyway. Stamcro, Stamblade, Stam Sorc and largely Stamplar can sustain without specific support sets. Tank proximity is going to make WM absolute aids to use. More likely mag are the buff conduits while stam just raw DPS.
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