A founder and magplars desperate plea

Ajaks

Having 3 maxed templars (magicka Dunmer, stamina Nord and a hybrid Khajiit) I feel your pain, bro. But you know what? I'd also love for the PVP in this game to actually work as it was intended - without the constant lag. I have been subscribed to ESO since the start and kept the ESO+ once it went B2P. My motives too were just to support a quality product as I don't have the time to play that much. But you know what? I ended that subscription after Harrowstorm, because I did not see any improvements of the lag. And for a long time it really seemed like no one cared about it in their office. Zenimax had 6 years to find a solution to this problem but they did literally nothing about it. So now I'm just hopeful that those tests will allow them to figure out some solutions. If they do, I'll renew the ESO+ and if not I'll just invest my time and money in something else. So let's see how they approach it and remain "cautiously optimistic about this one". Leaving is always easy.

West93

I'l rather play cyrodiil with unplayable lag and make these conditions equal for everyone rather than having my spammable taken away from me while that *** can spam snipe, dizzy on me.

FlaviusPK

West93 wrote: »

I'l rather play cyrodiil with unplayable lag and make these conditions equal for everyone rather than having my spammable taken away from me while that *** can spam snipe, dizzy on me.

I double that. I rarely play templar or in ball groups but I understand that these changes will hit everyone making the game worse in general. Tons of valuable interesting builds (including those to fight with ball groups people hate so much) will be not viable with this change.

Ryuvain

West93 wrote: »

I'l rather play cyrodiil with unplayable lag and make these conditions equal for everyone rather than having my spammable taken away from me while that *** can spam snipe, dizzy on me.

So youd rather have lag? Wow. Dizzy and snipe at least can be used by everyone.

West93

Ryuvain wrote: »

West93 wrote: »

I'l rather play cyrodiil with unplayable lag and make these conditions equal for everyone rather than having my spammable taken away from me while that *** can spam snipe, dizzy on me.

So youd rather have lag? Wow. Dizzy and snipe at least can be used by everyone.

I paid for the game to pvp and play cyrodiil with this test I wont be able to play my class in pvp.

Templars passive is built around aedric skill line for offense and defense, dizzy doesn't work for templars to the same level as other classes.

If sorcs or nightblades were hit hard like this no doubt forum would explode and no such test would come live, but if it's templars nobody cares, it's already a difficult class to solo 1vx.

burty61

qwjr8989_ESO wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

It's really hard to believe that a run-of-the-mill balance change could possibly be the thing that would cause someone as devoted as you appear to be to leave. Maybe you're just burned out and in need of a change.

To be able to only cast sweeps once every 3 seconds would ruin my entire enjoyment of this game. No longer would I be able to challenge myself on world bosses, Soloing dungeons, Solo farming sewers. I played other things all the time. I am playing albion all the time. But I keep 3 subs going at all times to show support.

It is no joke that the ability sweeps is the reason I fell in love with this game. I don't use ele weapon. I don't use fire staffs I use lightning staffs. I rock war maiden. I am the sweeps guy. It's a meme between all my friends. It's a meme in my raiding guild. I'm the yee old melee magplar in vet raids. This ability is my enjoyment. I have made builds where I pull 35k+ dps on 30k Dummy with ONLY sweeps. I love this ability man.

Sweeps only build please :-)

nosecookie

Hi there! I have a plea about the new AOE changes.

I started ESO in January 2014.A very early beta tested. From the beginning I planned on leveling stam dk in heavy armor and a 2H sword just like my main in Skyrim. First beta test she was made. 2nd beta test she was made. Once game launched I level'd it all the way to vet 10. i hated it. I wanted a new alt so I made a stamplar. A female imperial named Nelsarana. Puncturing strikes? What's that! Puncturing sweeps heals?! Omg. All of a sudden this was my new favorite ability in any game I had ever played. I have over 20 thousand hours into MMOs and I had never experienced anything like it in my life! An AOE. It heals. It damages. It looks great. The light attack weave is perfection.

Flash forward a few months and I bring my wife into the game. She had never played an elder scrolls game. She fell in love. I was dumping 100s of hours into this magplar. I loved it. it was all because of sweeps. It was all because of how much I loved this one singular ability.

Flash forward to early 2015. My daughter is born in January and we decide on a name. Tamriel. My wife and I spent every waking moment in the game because of our love for it so we named our daughter after our favorite Past time. January 15th Tamriel Rilenge was born. Flash forward to that summer and we drove 20 hours to quake con to meet our favorite developers in person.

adg6zlitmaxf.jpg


Baby Tamriel, my wife, Myself, and @ZOS_GinaBruno herself. I met every dev. I had brought an ouroboros book I bought from the bethesda store and had them all sign it. I talked to every dev at length. At quake con they had announced imp city. It was still months away and woebel was telling me about what would become my favorite set julianos he said he had just finished and would be released in the following dlc after imp city.

The devs fell in love with baby Tamriel. Gina bruno had us come with them to the dev dinner the night after the event. I sat across from woebel. I was so excited. I'll never forget Woebel looks me in the eye and goes "You know I designed every ability in the game. What's your favorite one?" "Pokey Sticks" "Pokey sticks?" "Yea you know *makes jabbing motions*" "....Are you referring to...puncturing sweeps...?" "yea...you know...Pokey sticks!"

He then proceeded to turn and I don't believe he talked to me the rest of the night lol. I didn't care I was ecstatic. 2 patches later the nerfs man. Nerf the heal. Nerf the major mending. Take the major mending away. Don't add the heal back when the mending goes away. Nerf magplar sustain. Sweeps fell out of favor. Elemental weapon comes. Ranged magplar.

I didn't care. I loved the ability. I right now play with 7 friends. I got them all into the game. We play multiple times a week. They make new toons. They do new things. I also play Nelsarana. Always sweeps.

Flash forward to last month and I bought my 5 year old daughter Tamriel a copy of the game. She is leveling a stam warden because she wants the bear. I couldn't wait to introduce her to this game as she grew up.

I have sat through a lot of stuff in this game. I got the tiger mount. I have spent 1000s on the game. I have recruited dozens of my friends all of which have spent upwards of 100s in the game. I named my CHILD after this game.

Here is the sad truth. If these AOE changes come to sweeps. I will have to part ways. It will all have been for naught. This isn't a threat. It's not a demand. It's a plea. Please consider the ramifications of changing the game so utterly. I have devoted so much money. So much time. So much energy and effort for it to all be thrown away. I do not want to lose this game. I do not want to lose sweeps. I plea for you to reconsider. I get it. PvP lag sucks. It hurts. It is unfun. But to lose everything I have worked for for literally no reason to but to fix lag in such a small section of the game just seems unfair. I feel like sweeps shouldn't even be considered in this if we are being honest. It's my literal class spammable. No other aoe is your class spammable. It has been this way unchanged since the beta.Why take it away now?

Thanks for coming to my ted talk.

katorga

We will be very upfront, but please be aware that if these tests confirm our hypothesis, then chain-casting AOE abilities will no longer form the core of the ESO PvP experience in the way it has for the last few years. We would then go through each class and ensure that there are viable builds for each and make adjustments as necessary.

It is every class and every skill, not just Templar.

It will be tested in Cyrodil to see if it works, but likely applied everywhere when it goes live.

They will have to rebuild the classes and skill lines because most skills have an aoe component. For example, in the Necromancer Gravelord tree only one morph of one skill is single target.

My guess is they take the easiest path and add ramping costs like streak/rolldodge to every skill, across the board, single target and aoe. It is a tested, working mechanic, currently in game, unlike the other options. Then they don't have to redesign anything and everything is treated equally.

Ryuvain

West93 wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

West93 wrote: »

I'l rather play cyrodiil with unplayable lag and make these conditions equal for everyone rather than having my spammable taken away from me while that *** can spam snipe, dizzy on me.

So youd rather have lag? Wow. Dizzy and snipe at least can be used by everyone.

I paid for the game to pvp and play cyrodiil with this test I wont be able to play my class in pvp.

Templars passive is built around aedric skill line for offense and defense, dizzy doesn't work for templars to the same level as other classes.

If sorcs or nightblades were hit hard like this no doubt forum would explode and no such test would come live, but if it's templars nobody cares, it's already a difficult class to solo 1vx.

Have you seen the other threads? What do you mean no one cares?
People are talking about quitting over 1-button gameplay being changed for a test.

Also the other classes use dizzy and don't get most class passive on it. But it's still used. Just saying.

lucky_Sage

The aoe change affected jabs is dumb it would make a Templar not be able to spam there spammabale kind of dumb

ketsparrowhawk

I suppose it's possible I'll eat these words.. but there is no way they will leave a 3-second cooldown on jabs outside of this test scenario. Seems like this is just for the purpose of gathering data. The real changes will be further down the road.

Kadoin

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

It's really hard to believe that a run-of-the-mill balance change could possibly be the thing that would cause someone as devoted as you appear to be to leave. Maybe you're just burned out and in need of a change.

It's not a "run of the mill balance change" when all templar has is purify and sweeps/jabs. Outside of that every other class is better, esp. in PvP. They've nerfed the class to the point every other class eclipses it except when looking at two skills.

qwjr8989_ESO

From a logic point of view if they had just announced this without examples I would have assumed sweeps would be left out because it seems like a major exception to the rule. It is not just an AOE.It's a conal effect that has only an aoe element to it. It is also the only spammable that is also an AOE. So it would seem safe to assume that it would be left out.

But the problem is they DID give examples. The examples being that sweeps specifcally would be the one getting bashed. The fact they chose templars three identifiying abilities for their example seems worrying at best.

They said they would balance if needed but I don't feel like that is okay. The only way they could balance it would be to remove the AOE but at that point remove the ability all together. To get the same healing you would need to change the single target to 80% which would be OP in pvp. Or just make the healing terrible which removes the class identity. The ability to be offensive and defensive at the same time is the entire IDEA of the magplar. The "house" system was the original idea. To remove magplars healing and aoe would have to require an entire rework of the class as a whole which would just destroy the class everyone loves.

qwjr8989_ESO

Joxer61 wrote: »

FlamingBeard wrote: »

Puncturing Sweep is almost never used in PvE rotations on Magicka Templar because all the ranged options are superior.........
.

Hahahahaa......ha

No that's real. I had to really prove myself to my raid guild for them to allow me to play melee magplar. This of course is only in competitive raiding situations. In competitive raiding melee magplar is among the worst in the game. When iron atronach first came out I will pulling 85k DPS with a melee magplar. Far more than I had any right to do. But things like stam necro were pulling 105k.

DrSlaughtr

If you take away the spammable attack of one class (Templar) then you should do the same to other classes. PVP plars only have one spamable option, as the weapon skills are all inferior for that environment. Meanwhile NBs running around destroying people with their criting spammable.

MurderMostFoul

If these changes are adopted, they aren't just going to add a cool down to Jabs.

Jabs, as the class spammable, will in all likelihood see a rework that keeps it functioning as a spammable, meaning no ramping cost or cooldown.

These complaints about individual skills make no sense in the context of what ZOS is trying to do. If they go with any of these significant changes to combat , there will be massive changes to skills across the board in an effort to maintain balance and playability. They've already said this is their intention. Don't waste time fretting over specific skills.

West93

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

If these changes are adopted, they aren't just going to add a cool down to Jabs.

Jabs, as the class spammable, will in all likelihood see a rework that keeps it functioning as a spammable, meaning no ramping cost or cooldown.

These complaints about individual skills make no sense in the context of what ZOS is trying to do. If they go with any of these significant changes to combat , there will be massive changes to skills across the board in an effort to maintain balance and playability. They've already said this is their intention. Don't waste time fretting over specific skills.

Change when? In next 3 months? Nice so not being able to play cyro for 3 months, thanks ZOS seems really fair.

MurderMostFoul

West93 wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

If these changes are adopted, they aren't just going to add a cool down to Jabs.

Jabs, as the class spammable, will in all likelihood see a rework that keeps it functioning as a spammable, meaning no ramping cost or cooldown.

These complaints about individual skills make no sense in the context of what ZOS is trying to do. If they go with any of these significant changes to combat , there will be massive changes to skills across the board in an effort to maintain balance and playability. They've already said this is their intention. Don't waste time fretting over specific skills.

Change when? In next 3 months? Nice so not being able to play cyro for 3 months, thanks ZOS seems really fair.

Well, if by "not being able to play Cyro" you mean "choosing not to play during ZOS's Cyro testing," there is no indication it will last three months. It looks like 4 weeks based on their post. Not playing Cyro for a month could suck, but you could play BGs, IC, or modify your build, play Cyro, earn double AP, and contribute to ZOS's testing efforts.

kindred

This isn't going to fix the performance anyway. They need to spend money on servers, but they won't, so they're trying to throw a bandaid on it with this aoe thing and ruin the one thing everyone loves about this game in the process..fluid combat.

Gorreck

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

It's really hard to believe that a run-of-the-mill balance change could possibly be the thing that would cause someone as devoted as you appear to be to leave. Maybe you're just burned out and in need of a change.

The changes they are testing for sweeps (and both its morphs) basically break it as a spamable for Templars.

Its arguable the biggest single nerf Templars have ever had, and they've had a lot.



If things go live and stay as they are "testing" then the Templar (and especially Stamplar) is going to need to be rebuilt from the ground up as basically a new class.

Gorreck

Lughlongarm wrote: »

qwjr8989_ESO wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

It's really hard to believe that a run-of-the-mill balance change could possibly be the thing that would cause someone as devoted as you appear to be to leave. Maybe you're just burned out and in need of a change.

To be able to only cast sweeps once every 3 seconds would ruin my entire enjoyment of this game. No longer would I be able to challenge myself on world bosses, Soloing dungeons, Solo farming sewers. I played other things all the time. I am playing albion all the time. But I keep 3 subs going at all times to show support.

It is no joke that the ability sweeps is the reason I fell in love with this game. I don't use ele weapon. I don't use fire staffs I use lightning staffs. I rock war maiden. I am the sweeps guy. It's a meme between all my friends. It's a meme in my raiding guild. I'm the yee old melee magplar in vet raids. This ability is my enjoyment. I have made builds where I pull 35k+ dps on 30k Dummy with ONLY sweeps. I love this ability man.

It should be obvious that any permanent solution will not result in 3 sec CD on skill like Puncturing Sweep. In one way or another.

After the DOT buff patch followed by the DOT nerf (to lower than before the prior buff) patch, you can never assume, never!

Girl_Number8

qwjr8989_ESO wrote: »

Hi there! I have a plea about the new AOE changes.

I started ESO in January 2014.A very early beta tested. From the beginning I planned on leveling stam dk in heavy armor and a 2H sword just like my main in Skyrim. First beta test she was made. 2nd beta test she was made. Once game launched I level'd it all the way to vet 10. i hated it. I wanted a new alt so I made a stamplar. A female imperial named Nelsarana. Puncturing strikes? What's that! Puncturing sweeps heals?! Omg. All of a sudden this was my new favorite ability in any game I had ever played. I have over 20 thousand hours into MMOs and I had never experienced anything like it in my life! An AOE. It heals. It damages. It looks great. The light attack weave is perfection.

Flash forward a few months and I bring my wife into the game. She had never played an elder scrolls game. She fell in love. I was dumping 100s of hours into this magplar. I loved it. it was all because of sweeps. It was all because of how much I loved this one singular ability.

Flash forward to early 2015. My daughter is born in January and we decide on a name. Tamriel. My wife and I spent every waking moment in the game because of our love for it so we named our daughter after our favorite Past time. January 15th Tamriel Rilenge was born. Flash forward to that summer and we drove 20 hours to quake con to meet our favorite developers in person.




Baby Tamriel, my wife, Myself, and @ZOS_GinaBruno herself. I met every dev. I had brought an ouroboros book I bought from the bethesda store and had them all sign it. I talked to every dev at length. At quake con they had announced imp city. It was still months away and woebel was telling me about what would become my favorite set julianos he said he had just finished and would be released in the following dlc after imp city.

The devs fell in love with baby Tamriel. Gina bruno had us come with them to the dev dinner the night after the event. I sat across from woebel. I was so excited. I'll never forget Woebel looks me in the eye and goes "You know I designed every ability in the game. What's your favorite one?" "Pokey Sticks" "Pokey sticks?" "Yea you know *makes jabbing motions*" "....Are you referring to...puncturing sweeps...?" "yea...you know...Pokey sticks!"

He then proceeded to turn and I don't believe he talked to me the rest of the night lol. I didn't care I was ecstatic. 2 patches later the nerfs man. Nerf the heal. Nerf the major mending. Take the major mending away. Don't add the heal back when the mending goes away. Nerf magplar sustain. Sweeps fell out of favor. Elemental weapon comes. Ranged magplar.

I didn't care. I loved the ability. I right now play with 7 friends. I got them all into the game. We play multiple times a week. They make new toons. They do new things. I also play Nelsarana. Always sweeps.

Flash forward to last month and I bought my 5 year old daughter Tamriel a copy of the game. She is leveling a stam warden because she wants the bear. I couldn't wait to introduce her to this game as she grew up.

I have sat through a lot of stuff in this game. I got the tiger mount. I have spent 1000s on the game. I have recruited dozens of my friends all of which have spent upwards of 100s in the game. I named my CHILD after this game.

Here is the sad truth. If these AOE changes come to sweeps. I will have to part ways. It will all have been for naught. This isn't a threat. It's not a demand. It's a plea. Please consider the ramifications of changing the game so utterly. I have devoted so much money. So much time. So much energy and effort for it to all be thrown away. I do not want to lose this game. I do not want to lose sweeps. I plea for you to reconsider. I get it. PvP lag sucks. It hurts. It is unfun. But to lose everything I have worked for for literally no reason to but to fix lag in such a small section of the game just seems unfair. I feel like sweeps shouldn't even be considered in this if we are being honest. It's my literal class spammable. No other aoe is your class spammable. It has been this way unchanged since the beta.Why take it away now?

Thanks for coming to my ted talk.

@qjay255b14_ESO

Your daughter picked a better class. If you want her to have the full experience play multi-class. Enjoy all that ESO has to offer.

If the changes upset you take a break from the game. Find yourself a new hobby to share with your daughter. I know I would be grateful if my father did that with me.

On PvP, it is garbage with the upcoming changes. I could still 1 v X very easily but this patch will not be a challenge and skilless imo.

Since playing non stop from beta I finally found myself playing other games. Games that take PvP and Performance more seriously than ESO. I am much happier playing against other expat PvPers that are a challenge. That is what is fun af.

Do I wish ESO would follow a different direction than they are now on the PTS, sure I do. That’s why I tested what I could and gave my honest feedback.

In the end I will still play PvP on ESO and collect hate whispers. Mainly because of my investment of time and money. Except I will be playing much less and those other games much more.

So my advice is do what makes you happy and be more flexible.

I haven’t given birth to my little nemesis as of yet but your family seems really loving.

Nice post

Drdeath20

At this point just move on. Templars need too much and have too much wrong with them to even bother groweling over the crumbs they get at times.

Gorreck

Ajaks wrote: »

Having 3 maxed templars (magicka Dunmer, stamina Nord and a hybrid Khajiit) I feel your pain, bro. But you know what? I'd also love for the PVP in this game to actually work as it was intended - without the constant lag.

Sweeps and their morphs are not really causing lag in PvP (sweeps isn't a particularly efficent AOE to spam in a ball-group), in ball-groups it is a combination of (circular rather than conal) AOE DPS, healing and cleansing (and speed) being endlessly spammed in large groups.

If you remember when the grouping mechanic broke in Cyrodill for a week or two ball-groups and lag largely went away too.

qwjr8989_ESO

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

West93 wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

If these changes are adopted, they aren't just going to add a cool down to Jabs.

Jabs, as the class spammable, will in all likelihood see a rework that keeps it functioning as a spammable, meaning no ramping cost or cooldown.

These complaints about individual skills make no sense in the context of what ZOS is trying to do. If they go with any of these significant changes to combat , there will be massive changes to skills across the board in an effort to maintain balance and playability. They've already said this is their intention. Don't waste time fretting over specific skills.

Change when? In next 3 months? Nice so not being able to play cyro for 3 months, thanks ZOS seems really fair.

Well, if by "not being able to play Cyro" you mean "choosing not to play during ZOS's Cyro testing," there is no indication it will last three months. It looks like 4 weeks based on their post. Not playing Cyro for a month could suck, but you could play BGs, IC, or modify your build, play Cyro, earn double AP, and contribute to ZOS's testing efforts.

Modify my build? In what universe could I play templar without sweeps, ritual AND bol? What would be the build exactly?

MurderMostFoul

qwjr8989_ESO wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

West93 wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

If these changes are adopted, they aren't just going to add a cool down to Jabs.

Jabs, as the class spammable, will in all likelihood see a rework that keeps it functioning as a spammable, meaning no ramping cost or cooldown.

These complaints about individual skills make no sense in the context of what ZOS is trying to do. If they go with any of these significant changes to combat , there will be massive changes to skills across the board in an effort to maintain balance and playability. They've already said this is their intention. Don't waste time fretting over specific skills.

Change when? In next 3 months? Nice so not being able to play cyro for 3 months, thanks ZOS seems really fair.

Well, if by "not being able to play Cyro" you mean "choosing not to play during ZOS's Cyro testing," there is no indication it will last three months. It looks like 4 weeks based on their post. Not playing Cyro for a month could suck, but you could play BGs, IC, or modify your build, play Cyro, earn double AP, and contribute to ZOS's testing efforts.

Modify my build? In what universe could I play templar without sweeps, ritual AND bol? What would be the build exactly?

Sweeps - Switch to ranged Magplar
Ritual - doesn't need to be spammed
BOL - add healing ritual to your build and alternate between two the the AOE test doesn't force universal AOE cooldowns

Obviously, Templars are going to struggle during the test, but we all benefit from providing ZOS data. And if any of these AOE changes from the test are adopted, you can expect to substantially modify your build anyways when ZOS does sweeping skill reworks to accommodate the AOE changes.

Gorreck

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Sweeps - Switch to ranged Magplar

Problematic for a melee based Magplar or a Stamplar.

MurderMostFoul

Gorreck wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Sweeps - Switch to ranged Magplar

Problematic for a melee based Magplar or a Stamplar.

Yeah, stamplar's will have to go with dizzy.

Firstmep

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Gorreck wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Sweeps - Switch to ranged Magplar

Problematic for a melee based Magplar or a Stamplar.

Yeah, stamplar's will have to go with dizzy.

And give up burning light, and minor protection?
The new burning light is literally built around jabs spam, which is already bad enough.
Imagine if dks could only proc burning from ardent flame abilities, but every ability there had the CD.
Also, always great to see so many bad players complain about jabs, one of the easiest to avoid abilities in the game.

MurderMostFoul

Firstmep wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Gorreck wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Sweeps - Switch to ranged Magplar

Problematic for a melee based Magplar or a Stamplar.

Yeah, stamplar's will have to go with dizzy.

And give up burning light, and minor protection?
The new burning light is literally built around jabs spam, which is already bad enough.
Imagine if dks could only proc burning from ardent flame abilities, but every ability there had the CD.
Also, always great to see so many bad players complain about jabs, one of the easiest to avoid abilities in the game.

Temps will be hit hard, but only during the tests. But ZOS needs the data. No one knows what will happen to temp's skills if these AOE changes are adopted and ZOS does all the necessary rebalancing.