Crystal Fragments
ItsNotLiving
✭✭✭✭
I don't see the point in the changes here I want to know if I'm wrong here but it seems pointless because:
1. If you wanted to make it a cast time spammable like Dizzying Swing then it needs to be uninterruptible like D-Swing
2. The proc'd frags don't give the cost reduction for some reason
3. The proc'd frags cannot proc another frag making the change useless in PvE
4. The whole abilities design is a moot point in PvP considering MagSorc is gimped into using 4 or so sets that stack magicka so the damage would be nowhere near D-Swing even if it functioned the same way.
1. If you wanted to make it a cast time spammable like Dizzying Swing then it needs to be uninterruptible like D-Swing
2. The proc'd frags don't give the cost reduction for some reason
3. The proc'd frags cannot proc another frag making the change useless in PvE
4. The whole abilities design is a moot point in PvP considering MagSorc is gimped into using 4 or so sets that stack magicka so the damage would be nowhere near D-Swing even if it functioned the same way.
4
-
Alidel✭✭✭✭Wait, proc'd frags can't proc another frags? I thought, that was the point of change, wasn't it?0 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Wait, proc'd frags can't proc another frags? I thought, that was the point of change, wasn't it?
Inscrutable ZOS-speak. Hard cast frags can proc insta-cast frags. Otherwise no one would use it as a spammable, just like the don't use it as a spammable today.
Kinda like the NB Merciless change "10% critical damage and healing", half the readers thought it meant 10% more healing not 10% critical healing.0 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Wait, proc'd frags can't proc another frags? I thought, that was the point of change, wasn't it?
The point was to remove one niche sorcerer build from the game; Bombers.
The point was also to make crystal fragments procs a bit weaker and make stamina even stronger.Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos0 -
ItsNotLiving✭✭✭✭
The point was to remove one niche sorcerer build from the game; Bombers.
The point was also to make crystal fragments procs a bit weaker and make stamina even stronger.
I've never seen a sorcerer bomber so I doubt that was it. I honestly think they wanted sorcerers to have a spammable but as always they ZoS'd it up.2 -
Apox✭✭✭✭✭cfrags instant procs need to be able to proc another instant cfrags. period. fix it zos.1 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ItsNotLiving wrote: »
I've never seen a sorcerer bomber so I doubt that was it. I honestly think they wanted sorcerers to have a spammable but as always they ZoS'd it up.
Yeah, the spammable part is what makes their approach just a mess. This is the only spammable skill that can be interrupted. A class spammable that can be interrupted with a cast time is just worthless.1 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Yeah, the spammable part is what makes their approach just a mess. This is the only spammable skill that can be interrupted. A class spammable that can be interrupted with a cast time is just worthless.
Not in pve. I assume that is where they intend for it to be used.
Since they removed the stun from blast, and removed blast, the proc should get the stun back. Every other dps spammable, including weapon skills, has a debuff...stun, off balance, stun if target casting, defile, etc.Edited by katorga on July 20, 2020 7:17PM1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ItsNotLiving wrote: »
I used about 50 proc'd frags and none of them did.
This is good feedback because it means the changes to the skill is a complete nerf, and this specific change is pretty pointless.1 -
susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Yeah, the spammable part is what makes their approach just a mess. This is the only spammable skill that can be interrupted. A class spammable that can be interrupted with a cast time is just worthless.
Snipe can interrupted. Dark Flare can be interrupted. Any non-ultimate ranged cast-time/channel spammable or not, can be interrupted.1 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Snipe can interrupted. Dark Flare can be interrupted. Any non-ultimate ranged cast-time/channel spammable or not, can be interrupted.
Snipe is not a class spammable. Dark flare isn't really a class spammable, jabs is. Jabs cannot be interrupted... and it is a channeled spammable. Point still stands, this is the only CLASS spammable that can be interrupted.
Jabs - cannot
Whip - cannot
Swallow Soul/Veiled Strike - Cannot
Birds - Cannot
Skull - Cannot
Crystal Frags - Interruptable
And that is only the mag version too, the stam version cannot be interrupted. And neither can the stam versions of the other class spammables.3 -
ItsNotLiving✭✭✭✭
Snipe can interrupted. Dark Flare can be interrupted. Any non-ultimate ranged cast-time/channel spammable or not, can be interrupted.
Drak Flare is not a spammable skill and before it got nerfed to the ground (which was unjustified) it hit way harder than hard casted frags on the pts, and snipe is just obnoxious and is the highest damaging ranged abiltiy in the game. Those abilities should not be compared to the new frags.0 -
susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ItsNotLiving wrote: »
Drak Flare is not a spammable skill and before it got nerfed to the ground (which was unjustified) it hit way harder than hard casted frags on the pts, and snipe is just obnoxious and is the highest damaging ranged abiltiy in the game. Those abilities should not be compared to the new frags.
Frags in PTS has 20% less damage than Snipe as well as Dark Flare and 20% lesser cast time, pretty balanced. Dark Flare is identical to Snipe for both damage and cast time. Every single ranged spell or ability with cast time can be interrupted.3 -
ItsNotLiving✭✭✭✭
Frags in PTS has 20% less damage than Snipe as well as Dark Flare and 20% lesser cast time, pretty balanced. Dark Flare is identical to Snipe for both damage and cast time. Every single ranged spell or ability with cast time can be interrupted.
So you think sorcerers only spammable ability in the class kit should be interrupted every time someone hits you with crushing shock? .2 seconds of cast time reduction means nothing if the ability doesn't land at all, like i said it should not be compared to those two because snipe is a stamina ability than can be used outside of the range of even crushing shock and it does a considerable amount of damage more than even proc'd frags has in years, it shouldn't be compared to dark flare either because it deals less damage than dark flare, dark flare is not the templar spammable skill, and frags does not carry the most punishing status effect in the game in an AoE major defile.2 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Umm no.
What ? You don't trust the RNG to prevent players from shooting 4 frags in a row?
0 -
ItsNotLiving✭✭✭✭
Umm no.
Any explanation outside of you not being able to roll dodge, cloak, block, reduce the damage with wings, or shield?2 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ItsNotLiving wrote: »
Any explanation outside of you not being able to roll dodge, cloak, block, reduce the damage with wings, or shield?
Because its no just a spammable. It is a delayed burst really kind of a different version of merciless resolve. Faster to proc, but missing the buff. If you want to treat it like a spammable, its still ranged not melee and not instant so no reason for it to be uninterruptible; but I'd go along with the proc being able to go off the proc (even though the standard rule is no procs from procs) so long as it then no longer procs off of shield, heals, or any other magicka ability. just itself.
See; for good players, they have lost nothing here because they just fired it on proc and didn't hard cast. It still does the same as always. I don't think they need a double proc chance.4 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Because its no just a spammable. It is a delayed burst really kind of a different version of merciless resolve. Faster to proc, but missing the buff. If you want to treat it like a spammable, its still ranged not melee and not instant so no reason for it to be uninterruptible; but I'd go along with the proc being able to go off the proc (even though the standard rule is no procs from procs) so long as it then no longer procs off of shield, heals, or any other magicka ability. just itself.
See; for good players, they have lost nothing here because they just fired it on proc and didn't hard cast. It still does the same as always. I don't think they need a double proc chance.
People are taking issue that they reworked this to make it a better spammable, but they really did little to actually make it useful for that purpose. Using just the proc, like it is on live now, is not using this skill as a spammable. Sorcs still need to effectively slot 2 spammable abilities in their build, no other class has to slot two spammable to be effective.
If their goal is to make it a spammable, they are failing. And none of your suggestions are even remotely viable. They need to remove the cast time entirely or greatly increase the proc chance, something allowing the proc to proc itself would do. Or, even remove the cost of the frag proc. Because right now, this is a plain awful spammable ability, the worst in the game by a large margin.
Edited by jaws343 on July 20, 2020 8:30PM0 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
People are taking issue that they reworked this to make it a better spammable, but they really did little to actually make it useful for that purpose. Using just the proc, like it is on live now, is not using this skill as a spammable. Sorcs still need to effectively slot 2 spammable abilities in their build, no other class has to slot two spammable to be effective.
If their goal is to make it a spammable, they are failing. And none of your suggestions are even remotely viable. They need to remove the cast time entirely or greatly increase the proc chance, something allowing the proc to proc itself would do. Or, even remove the cost of the frag proc. Because right now, this is a plain awful spammable ability, the worst in the game by a large margin.
Well; I think you need to make up your mind. Do you want it to keep being a good proc; which it is now? Or a good spammable? TBH; sorc doesn't need any change to this at all if they are any good.0 -
Glantir✭✭✭✭
Well; I think you need to make up your mind. Do you want it to keep being a good proc; which it is now? Or a good spammable? TBH; sorc doesn't need any change to this at all if they are any good.
As a Pet Sorc every slot is gold and a spam cfrag would open a slot for another ability....
Glantir Sorcerer ~ Ebonheart Pact (EU)0 -
MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
People are taking issue that they reworked this to make it a better spammable, but they really did little to actually make it useful for that purpose. Using just the proc, like it is on live now, is not using this skill as a spammable. Sorcs still need to effectively slot 2 spammable abilities in their build, no other class has to slot two spammable to be effective.
If their goal is to make it a spammable, they are failing. And none of your suggestions are even remotely viable. They need to remove the cast time entirely or greatly increase the proc chance, something allowing the proc to proc itself would do. Or, even remove the cost of the frag proc. Because right now, this is a plain awful spammable ability, the worst in the game by a large margin.
He's right, you can't have it both ways. The current design of Crystal Frags allows the cast time version to be used as a new, decent spammable while the Instant Cast Crystal Frags sticks to what Sorc's have known and loved for 6 years, a timed burst skill.
If you think removing the cast time would make this a better spammable, then your only seeing half the picture. Say goodbye to using the instant proc for +66% more damage and -50% cost, because thats only allowed to thrive with a cast time, thats the entire point.
You're effectively asking ZOS to take away one of Mag Sorcs biggest damage tools. They were at least smart enough to leave it as is. For anyone who likes things the way it is, -1% damage nerf for -10% base cost and -10% cost to all other abilities for 3s on cast is a buff (Edit: Only applies to hard-casting apparently - sad).Edited by MashmalloMan on July 20, 2020 11:11PMPC Beta - 2200+ CP
Stam Sorc Khajiit PvE/PVP Main || Stam Sorc Dark Elf PvP ||
Stam Templar Dark Elf || Stam Warden Wood Elf || Stam DK Nord || Stam Necro Orc || Stam Blade Khajiit
Mag Sorc High Elf || Mag Templar High Elf || Mag Warden Breton || Mag Necro Khajiit || Mag Blade Khajiit1 -
Celestro✭✭✭MashmalloMan wrote: »
He's right, you can't have it both ways. The current design of Crystal Frags allows the cast time version to be used as a new, decent spammable while the Instant Cast Crystal Frags sticks to what Sorc's have known and loved for 6 years, a timed burst skill.
If you think removing the cast time would make this a better spammable, then your only seeing half the picture. Say goodbye to using the instant proc for +66% more damage and -50% cost, because thats only allowed to thrive with a cast time, thats the entire point.
You're effectively asking ZOS to take away one of Mag Sorcs biggest damage tools. They were at least smart enough to leave it as is. For anyone who likes things the way it is, -1% damage nerf for -10% base cost and -10% cost to all other abilities for 3s on cast is a buff.
Well the -10% cost to all others only applies to hard cast (if you were saying otherwise; little hard to tell). If it did apply to proc, I imagined most wouldn't have any issues. Or at least shouldn't, even though technically the base cost reduction is also a nice change too... /shrug0 -
MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Snipe is not a class spammable. Dark flare isn't really a class spammable, jabs is. Jabs cannot be interrupted... and it is a channeled spammable. Point still stands, this is the only CLASS spammable that can be interrupted.
Jabs - cannot
Whip - cannot
Swallow Soul/Veiled Strike - Cannot
Birds - Cannot
Skull - Cannot
Crystal Frags - Interruptable
And that is only the mag version too, the stam version cannot be interrupted. And neither can the stam versions of the other class spammables.
Your reply didn't disprove their point. "Any non-ultimate ranged cast-time/channel spammable or not, can be interrupted."
Has nothing to do with class or being a spammable.
Ranged cast time/channel = interruptible
Melee cast time/channel = not interruptible.
Ranged/Melee instant = not interruptible, obviously.
Ranged cast time/channel:- Snipe
- Dark Flare
- Crystal Frags (Hard Cast)
Melee cast time/channel:- Jabs
- Uppercut
- Flurry
Ranged/Melee Instant:- Whip
- Swallow Soul
- Veiled Strike
- Birds
- Skulls
- Etc, etc...
So yes, Hard Cast Frags is the first CLASS cast time ranged spammable, as a result, it can be interrupted because of the existing ruleset, it's up to ZOS on whether or not it should be allowed to break that ruleset. If it does, then they best be adding Snipe to that list.PC Beta - 2200+ CP
Stam Sorc Khajiit PvE/PVP Main || Stam Sorc Dark Elf PvP ||
Stam Templar Dark Elf || Stam Warden Wood Elf || Stam DK Nord || Stam Necro Orc || Stam Blade Khajiit
Mag Sorc High Elf || Mag Templar High Elf || Mag Warden Breton || Mag Necro Khajiit || Mag Blade Khajiit2 -
MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Well the -10% cost to all others only applies to hard cast (if you were saying otherwise; little hard to tell). If it did apply to proc, I imagined most wouldn't have any issues. Or at least shouldn't, even though technically the base cost reduction is also a nice change too... /shrug
To be honest, I wasn't 100% sure of that, well thats a bit unfortunate, but still not a nerf for typical users of instant frags. I'm not really a big supporter of the -10% cost in the first place because it's taking from the overall power budget of the potential on both morphs. Sorc's have enough cost related passives/morphs, there should be something more unique.PC Beta - 2200+ CP
Stam Sorc Khajiit PvE/PVP Main || Stam Sorc Dark Elf PvP ||
Stam Templar Dark Elf || Stam Warden Wood Elf || Stam DK Nord || Stam Necro Orc || Stam Blade Khajiit
Mag Sorc High Elf || Mag Templar High Elf || Mag Warden Breton || Mag Necro Khajiit || Mag Blade Khajiit0 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MashmalloMan wrote: »
Your reply didn't disprove their point. "Any non-ultimate ranged cast-time/channel spammable or not, can be interrupted."
Has nothing to do with class or being a spammable.
Ranged cast time/channel = interruptible
Melee cast time/channel = not interruptible.
Ranged/Melee instant = not interruptible, obviously.
Ranged cast time/channel:- Snipe
- Dark Flare
- Crystal Frags (Hard Cast)
Melee cast time/channel:- Jabs
- Uppercut
- Flurry
Ranged/Melee Instant:- Whip
- Swallow Soul
- Veiled Strike
- Birds
- Skulls
- Etc, etc...
So yes, Hard Cast Frags is the first CLASS cast time ranged spammable, as a result, it can be interrupted because of the existing ruleset, it's up to ZOS on whether or not it should be allowed to break that ruleset. If it does, then they best be adding Snipe to that list.
The big difference is that the cast time spammables all have decent secondary effects...major defile + empower, defile plus poison, empower (WB), offbalance/stun/snare (DS). So granted you get 10% cost reduction and the chance to proc, but really the proc should get its stun back or set target off balance.0 -
Yusuf✭✭✭✭✭Personally I like it in PVE. It freed up my previous Force Pulse spammable slot so I can run an additional dot with Scalding Rune which looks promising so far.
I don't have an opinion on it regarding PVP yet, guess I'll cross that bridge once the final patch goes live.0
