Bloodthirsty Vs. Infused Jewelry trait Answered!

YandereGirlfriend

Has there been any more progress in testing with these traits?

Also, I'll just post the most recent change:

Item Traits

Bloodthirsty: Increased the bonus Weapon and Spell Damage this trait grants against targets to a maximum of 350 per trait, up from 250 per trait. This was to make up for the fact the trait does not inherit percent increases to these stats, such as Brutality or Sorcery.

There seemed to be conflicting information earlier in the thread about Bloodthirsty actually being scaled by Sorcery/Brutality, so I'm curious if there has been any new information confirmed.

VoidCommander

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Has there been any more progress in testing with these traits?

Also, I'll just post the most recent change:

Item Traits

Bloodthirsty: Increased the bonus Weapon and Spell Damage this trait grants against targets to a maximum of 350 per trait, up from 250 per trait. This was to make up for the fact the trait does not inherit percent increases to these stats, such as Brutality or Sorcery.

There seemed to be conflicting information earlier in the thread about Bloodthirsty actually being scaled by Sorcery/Brutality, so I'm curious if there has been any new information confirmed.

As of right now no, there hasn’t. Mostly because I wouldn’t know where to begin on how to test it. Currently thinking about using malacaths band to remove crit chance. Then light attacking the precurser until death with infused and spell power pots. Then do it again with blood thirsty and spell power pots, and then again with bloodthirsty without pots. Then do the math on the resulting combat metrics data to see if it adds up. Will need to know the specific equation for light attack scaling and spell damage.

MashmalloMan

VoidCommander wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Has there been any more progress in testing with these traits?

Also, I'll just post the most recent change:

Item Traits

Bloodthirsty: Increased the bonus Weapon and Spell Damage this trait grants against targets to a maximum of 350 per trait, up from 250 per trait. This was to make up for the fact the trait does not inherit percent increases to these stats, such as Brutality or Sorcery.

There seemed to be conflicting information earlier in the thread about Bloodthirsty actually being scaled by Sorcery/Brutality, so I'm curious if there has been any new information confirmed.

As of right now no, there hasn’t. Mostly because I wouldn’t know where to begin on how to test it. Currently thinking about using malacaths band to remove crit chance. Then light attacking the precurser until death with infused and spell power pots. Then do it again with blood thirsty and spell power pots, and then again with bloodthirsty without pots. Then do the math on the resulting combat metrics data to see if it adds up. Will need to know the specific equation for light attack scaling and spell damage.

Seems overly complicated.. Get a 3/6k dummy to 50% health. Pause until the fight ends. Light attack with bloodthirsty and no major/minor buff on. Then do it again at the same 50% health with major/minor buff on. Just compare the damage, you should be able to see a large enough increase or not.

We already know infused is affected by those buffs, the only question is if bloodthirsty is. No need for Malacath Band or the equation for light attack scaling.

VoidCommander

I tested light attacks against a Precurser from 100% to 0%. I used malacath's band of brutality to eliminate critical hit bias. These are my results.

test 1: Bloodthirsty with no major sorcery: 4653
test 2: Bloodthirsty with major sorcery: 5010
test 3: Healthy with major sorcery: 4510
test 4: Healthy with no major sorcery: 4145

The % damage increase from test 4 to test 3 is about 8.1%.
Therefore the expected damage increase should be at least 8.1% for test 2 from test 1, plus more if bloodthirsty is affected.
The actual damage increase from test 1 to test 2 is 7.2%.

I believe this is conclusive evidence that the patch notes reflect reality. Bloodthirsty is NOT affected by major sorcery, hence why it needed to be buffed.

SimonBelmont

In PvP, damage shields are not at all uncommon. And you'll need to break through those, before you even start in on the enemies Health Pool. In short, you do quite a bit of damage to an enemy, before they've even lost a single HP. Until you have the damage shield out of the way (which the enemy can recast at any time), Bloodthirsty does nothing for you.

Infused, on the other hand, will be contributing to your damage output at all times.

Of course, PvE opponents generally don't have damage shields, so Bloodthirsty's limitations wouldn't really apply there.

UntouchableHunter

Is it Bloodthirsty affected by major sorcery and brutality?

SkaraMinoc

UntouchableHunter wrote: »

Is it Bloodthirsty affected by major sorcery and brutality?

No.

See the Bloodthirsty google doc.

Tannus15

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

UntouchableHunter wrote: »

Is it Bloodthirsty affected by major sorcery and brutality?

No.

See the Bloodthirsty google doc.

afaik blood thirsty is also not affected by medium armour or fighter guild / sorc passives so you can add an additional 20%ish making infused slightly less sub par.
but still weak

I'd love the medium armour damage % increased to make an infused build at least decent and for sorcs BiS even if only by a very small margin...

WrathOfInnos

Tannus15 wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

UntouchableHunter wrote: »

Is it Bloodthirsty affected by major sorcery and brutality?

No.

See the Bloodthirsty google doc.

afaik blood thirsty is also not affected by medium armour or fighter guild / sorc passives so you can add an additional 20%ish making infused slightly less sub par.
but still weak

I'd love the medium armour damage % increased to make an infused build at least decent and for sorcs BiS even if only by a very small margin...

I think this has become true for stamsorc and stamplar. They can exceed the 1.5 multiplier where Infused and BT break even. I agree it would be cool for magsorc (magplar is unlikely because BT helps their beams), but is currently not the case in 1-2 medium armor.

SkaraMinoc

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

UntouchableHunter wrote: »

Is it Bloodthirsty affected by major sorcery and brutality?

No.

See the Bloodthirsty google doc.

afaik blood thirsty is also not affected by medium armour or fighter guild / sorc passives so you can add an additional 20%ish making infused slightly less sub par.
but still weak

I'd love the medium armour damage % increased to make an infused build at least decent and for sorcs BiS even if only by a very small margin...

I think this has become true for stamsorc and stamplar. They can exceed the 1.5 multiplier where Infused and BT break even. I agree it would be cool for magsorc (magplar is unlikely because BT helps their beams), but is currently not the case in 1-2 medium armor.

Infused is so far behind Bloodthirsty @ 20% target health (Endless Fury) that it's not realistic.

Tannus15

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

UntouchableHunter wrote: »

Is it Bloodthirsty affected by major sorcery and brutality?

No.

See the Bloodthirsty google doc.

afaik blood thirsty is also not affected by medium armour or fighter guild / sorc passives so you can add an additional 20%ish making infused slightly less sub par.
but still weak

I'd love the medium armour damage % increased to make an infused build at least decent and for sorcs BiS even if only by a very small margin...

I think this has become true for stamsorc and stamplar. They can exceed the 1.5 multiplier where Infused and BT break even. I agree it would be cool for magsorc (magplar is unlikely because BT helps their beams), but is currently not the case in 1-2 medium armor.

Infused is so far behind Bloodthirsty @ 20% target health (Endless Fury) that it's not realistic.

imo endless fury is rubbish in pve anyway.

my sorc build has 6 sorc skills front bar with 5pc medium so 1.52? (minor, major, medium, passives) which leaves us breaking even with BT at 55% health remaining

Average 3 BT = 520
Average 3 Infused + all the things = 474

if you double the medium armour damage bonus then you end up with 505 which is at least in the same ball park
if you also double the sorc passive then you end up with a massive 542

of course the BT benefit at 25% is still a massive 787 so infused would still be inferior at execute, but at least it would be better for a sustained fight and combined with the 10% damage bonus vs full health enemies it would make sorcs a fantastic burst dps for roles like crystals in portals vCR

Tannus15

actually i'd take that as fair trade.

ditch the sorc 10% reverse execute and buff their weapon / spell damage % passive

SkaraMinoc

Tannus15 wrote: »

imo endless fury is rubbish in pve anyway

That comment was specifically for PvP but I see now this old thread was primarily for PvE.

Here's my thoughts on Medium armor for Mag Sorc Infused vs Bloodthirsty for PvE. ZOS would have to seriously buff the Medium Armor passive for it to overtake the PvE math on 7 Light + Bloodthirsty. Light Armor passives are just too good.

I don't see any changes happening soon. They just redesigned the passives less than a year ago.

WrathOfInnos

Tannus15 wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

UntouchableHunter wrote: »

Is it Bloodthirsty affected by major sorcery and brutality?

No.

See the Bloodthirsty google doc.

afaik blood thirsty is also not affected by medium armour or fighter guild / sorc passives so you can add an additional 20%ish making infused slightly less sub par.
but still weak

I'd love the medium armour damage % increased to make an infused build at least decent and for sorcs BiS even if only by a very small margin...

I think this has become true for stamsorc and stamplar. They can exceed the 1.5 multiplier where Infused and BT break even. I agree it would be cool for magsorc (magplar is unlikely because BT helps their beams), but is currently not the case in 1-2 medium armor.

Infused is so far behind Bloodthirsty @ 20% target health (Endless Fury) that it's not realistic.

imo endless fury is rubbish in pve anyway.

my sorc build has 6 sorc skills front bar with 5pc medium so 1.52? (minor, major, medium, passives) which leaves us breaking even with BT at 55% health remaining

Average 3 BT = 520
Average 3 Infused + all the things = 474

if you double the medium armour damage bonus then you end up with 505 which is at least in the same ball park
if you also double the sorc passive then you end up with a massive 542

of course the BT benefit at 25% is still a massive 787 so infused would still be inferior at execute, but at least it would be better for a sustained fight and combined with the 10% damage bonus vs full health enemies it would make sorcs a fantastic burst dps for roles like crystals in portals vCR

@Tannus15 I think 3 BT gives average about 472.5 because it gives nothing from 100% to 90%, then averages 525 from 90% to 0%.

So that 474 you have with 3 Infused should already pull ahead, unless you are relying on something like Executioner for a damage spike at the end.

Toxic_Hemlock

I only use infused, but then again I generally just quest and avoid any fight that takes lots of time. Infused puts all its damage up-front and if you farm or just do content that is not drawn out it is the clear winner.

If I was capable of doing trials or even arenas I might carry an extra set with bloodthirsty, but as it sits I'm good with three infused.